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Re: discerning narrow-well-5ths against an corresponding wide-French one 5th

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  • Margo Schulter
    Dear Andreas, Thank you for posting your temperament with one wide fifth based on complex integer ratios, a technique that fascinates me, and which I have used
    Message 1 of 69 , Jun 26, 2008
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      Dear Andreas,

      Thank you for posting your temperament with one wide fifth based on
      complex integer ratios, a technique that fascinates me, and which I
      have used in rather different stylistic settings.

      There is one small revision that might appeal to me, and I would be
      very curious as to your opinion on what I might propose.

      Looking at the sizes of fifths, I noticed that at D-A there is a fifth
      considerably narrower than any other, at only about 694.1 cents, or
      almost 8 cents smaller than pure, with a ratio of 884/592. This is a
      bit more than 1/3 Pythagorean comma of tempering, and I wondered if
      the step A (Scala step 9) might be raised slightly to make this fifth
      a bit closer to pure without seriously compromising any other
      interval.

      In this proposed variation on your tuning, A is raised to 885/529 with
      respect to C, or 885/592 with respect to D, forming a fifth D-A which
      is narrow by almost exactly 1/4 Pythagorean comma -- indeed, the
      accuracy of 885/592 in approximating this common degree of temperament
      is amazing! The main complication I would see, if you like the result,
      is that your pitch standard would then become a4 = 442.5.

      ! ProposedVariationOnSparschuh442wideFrench5th.scl
      !
      Proposed revision: step 9 (A) at 885/529, 890.9 cents -- Margo Schulter
      12
      !
      558/529
      592/529
      628/529
      662/529
      706/529
      744/529
      792/529
      837/529
      885/529
      942/529
      992/529
      2/1



      0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect prime
      1: 558/529 92.397
      2: 592/529 194.795
      3: 628/529 296.996
      4: 662/529 388.276
      5: 706/529 499.681
      6: 744/529 590.442
      7: 792/529 698.679
      8: 837/529 794.352
      9: 885/529 890.892
      10: 942/529 998.951
      11: 992/529 1088.487
      12: 2/1 1200.000 octave

      Most appreciatively,

      Margo Schulter
      mschulter@...
    • Ozan Yarman
      Dear Mike, my apologies for the very late reply. As I have stated in my recent message to Margo Schulter, I had been enjoying a well deserved summer s rest. To
      Message 69 of 69 , Aug 10, 2008
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        Dear Mike, my apologies for the very late reply. As I have stated in
        my recent message to Margo Schulter, I had been enjoying a well
        deserved summer's rest.

        To answer your enquiry, here are some links to older messages to this
        forum on the subject of masters of Turkish maqam music:

        http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/62904

        http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/62039

        http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/56664

        The names of some of the prominent masters have been listed in these
        messages. A search in amazon.com could yield links to the performances
        of masters themselves.

        Fusion type endeavours in "world music" does occasionally result in
        original productions worthy of approval. However, for a crash course
        in maqam music, you need to listen to acclaimed executants and
        venerable exponents of the tradition, not syntheses.

        Direct personal experience of Allah is very much ingrained in Sufi
        music. Most of the known neyzens in Turkiye are into tasavvuf. You are
        likely to enjoy the Erguner brothers, the elder of which, Kudsi, has
        done world fusion too if I heard correctly:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudsi_Erguner

        If you are into the Turkish ney for the love of its trancendental
        sound, here are acknowledged quotidian performers of the instrument:

        http://www.neyzenim.com/neyzenler.htm

        Oz.


        http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/36343

        On Jun 28, 2008, at 7:42 AM, Mike Battaglia wrote:

        > On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...
        > > wrote:
        >
        >> I think the theory of Maqam music and other "ethnic" genres around
        >> the
        >> world are much neglected by the alternative tuning list community.
        >> Most of the discussions are centered around either historical or
        >> contemporary microtonalisms for furthering Western music culture
        >> alone. While I appreciate the contributions by the West to musical
        >> art, I believe the Western quarter (pun intended) can account for
        >> only
        >> a fraction of the actual music-making in the globe. One of the
        >> greatest traditions is right next door: A venerable monophonal Middle
        >> Eastern culture based on maqamat, destgaha and raga. This "exotic"
        >> culture has been influenced by a thousand years of Islamic atmosphere
        >> to inspire such styles and practices as Mevlevi rites, Qawwali
        >> performances, peshrevs, taqsims, gazels, etc... Your penchant to
        >> discover more of the theories and styles of exotic traditions is
        >> admirable.
        >
        >> Though my experience is most inadequate to describe the musical
        >> wonders of the Islamic Civilization, my presence in the tuning list
        >> as
        >> a fresh academician should be construed as an oppurtunity to discover
        >> a glimpse of at least the Turkish branch of this grand culture.
        >
        > Well hey man, if you have a listening list of stuff you can recommend,
        > I think we'd all love to check it out. World music is one of the most
        > fascinating things in the, well, the world. Mainly because you have
        > thousands of years of musical development behind most of these
        > cultures and styles, and so they are usually very much advanced.
        >
        > Jeff Buckley did a Qawwali-inspired song, "Dream Brother," in which he
        > mixed pop/rock with traditional Qawwali elements, and it's one of my
        > favorite songs. I started looking for some traditional Qawwali
        > recordings when I heard that song, and I didn't really find much.
        >
        > Any time there is an old, ancient branch of music that has reached as
        > high of a level of artistic development as the one we're talking about
        > here, people will be interested. I just think many don't know about it
        > yet.
        >
        > One interesting thing to note is that the religious music of all of
        > the world sounds very, very, very similar. Perhaps not the music that
        > is "associated" with various churches and such - but the music that
        > monks sing, the music that is sung to draw people closer to the
        > experience of God.
        >
        > -Mike
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