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The Tyrrany of Twelve

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  • Mark Gould
    Many thanks to those that responded to my comments. Even to those who disagreed with me. It was nice to see that we can discuss the overarching problems of
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 1 1:45 AM
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      Many thanks to those that responded to my comments. Even to those who
      disagreed with me.

      It was nice to see that we can discuss the overarching problems of gaining
      wider acceptance of microtonality, and of the problems of tuning in general,
      rather than the usual drear about which blackjack mode or ratio pushes your
      buttons.

      What we should be doing _IMHO_ is not living in the ghetto and whining and
      using DIY instruments (apologies, Harry) and freebie software, no matter how
      /good/ it may be.

      What we should be discussing is how we can engage ordinary musicians in what
      we believe to be a valid means of musical expression.

      Some don't like my methods (too many complain of the mathematical origins,
      and some complain that it's tonality all over again, and we've had plenty
      enough of that) but so far, I've been having successes here and there. For
      example, via my partner, a recorder player is now asking how she can obtain
      a 19-tone recorder: she belongs to a large amateur community specialising in
      music involving recorders (inc Mediaeval instruments). From one, to another,
      and another...

      But 19 is just another scale amongst many, many possibilities.

      Mark
    • Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@juno.com>
      ... Why? Both DIY instruments and good, free software seem like excellent things.
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 1 2:10 AM
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        > What we should be doing _IMHO_ is not living in the ghetto and whining and
        > using DIY instruments (apologies, Harry) and freebie software, no matter how
        > /good/ it may be.

        Why? Both DIY instruments and good, free software seem like excellent things.
      • Alison Monteith
        ... Why not? Seems like I ve wasted a lot of time and effort then. Please let me know where I went wrong. Regards a.m.
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 1 6:08 AM
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          Mark Gould wrote:

          >
          >
          > What we should be doing _IMHO_ is not living in the ghetto and whining and
          > using DIY instruments (apologies, Harry) and freebie software, no matter how
          > /good/ it may be.

          Why not? Seems like I've wasted a lot of time and effort then. Please let me know where I went
          wrong.

          Regards
          a.m.
        • Afmmjr@aol.com
          Thanks, Mark. I am in complete agreement with you. And Rachel Barnes from London plays a 19-tone equal tempered tenor recorder. She has a piece by a
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 1 6:30 AM
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            Thanks, Mark. I am in complete agreement with you. And Rachel Barnes from
            London plays a 19-tone equal tempered tenor recorder. She has a piece by a
            talented composer for 2 players and pre-recorded music that she wants to play
            on the AFMM concerts next Spring.

            I am beginning to wonder if there is a direct inverse proportion between
            microtonalists being afraid of live musicians, and conventional 12 listeners
            being afraid of microtones.

            :) Johnny Reinhard
          • Afmmjr@aol.com
            Hi Alison, I don t think Mark was trying to piss other Listers off. It s just that it helps to have a variety of issues and angles moving through the list
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 1 6:34 AM
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              Hi Alison,

              I don't think Mark was trying to piss other Listers off. It's just that it
              helps to have a variety of issues and angles moving through the list
              concurrently.

              And to all, please keep doing what you are doing...but do attend some live
              concerts when you can...(hint, hint, Feb. 8th in NY). Or elsewhere.

              best, Johnny
            • Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@juno.com>
              ... This microtonalist hasn t even figured out how to do a score yet.
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 1 8:29 AM
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                --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

                > I am beginning to wonder if there is a direct inverse proportion between
                > microtonalists being afraid of live musicians, and conventional 12 listeners
                > being afraid of microtones.

                This microtonalist hasn't even figured out how to do a score yet.
              • Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>
                ... Take off the no matter how good bit, and I couldn t agree more. But every time I post something about developing a real keyboard, I get at most one
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 1 10:34 AM
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                  >What we should be doing _IMHO_ is not living in the ghetto and
                  >whining and using DIY instruments (apologies, Harry) and freebie
                  >software, no matter how /good/ it may be.

                  Take off the "no matter how good" bit, and I couldn't agree
                  more. But every time I post something about developing a
                  real keyboard, I get at most one person interested.

                  -C.
                • Alison Monteith
                  ... Point taken - now can I have two returns (preferably non-smoking) for Edinburgh - NY please, ? ... Peace a.m.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 1 11:00 AM
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                    Afmmjr@... wrote:

                    > Hi Alison,
                    >
                    > I don't think Mark was trying to piss other Listers off. It's just that it
                    > helps to have a variety of issues and angles moving through the list
                    > concurrently.
                    >
                    > And to all, please keep doing what you are doing...but do attend some live
                    > concerts when you can...(hint, hint, Feb. 8th in NY). Or elsewhere.
                    >
                    > best, Johnny

                    Point taken - now can I have two returns (preferably non-smoking) for Edinburgh - NY please, ?
                    : - )

                    Peace
                    a.m.
                  • Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>
                    Mark/Carl, ... Then what you have described is a perfect recipe for virtually no progress whatsoever. Don t do it yourself, don t rely on current tools, hope
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 1 11:22 AM
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                      Mark/Carl,

                      --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma <clumma@y...>" <clumma@y...> wrote:
                      > >What we should be doing _IMHO_ is not living in the ghetto and
                      > >whining and using DIY instruments (apologies, Harry) and freebie
                      > >software, no matter how /good/ it may be.
                      >
                      > Take off the "no matter how good" bit, and I couldn't agree
                      > more. But every time I post something about developing a
                      > real keyboard, I get at most one person interested.

                      Then what you have described is a perfect recipe for virtually no progress whatsoever. Don't do it yourself, don't rely on current tools, hope for something in the future that may or may not appear (most likely due to a near-zero demand), and sit.

                      And sit. And sit. And sit.

                      (we pause for this moment to honor the value of the process of thoughtful insight, reflection, and discovery, that can and does take place while sitting...)

                      Everyone needs to be comfortable with their own path, and Carl has explained his path often enough, and with conviction, that neither I nor anyone else should attempt to convince him otherwise. But others, for reasons just as personally valid, don't want to sit and wait and opine and type and research. They want to do something _now_ with whatever means available, and when push comes to shove they are going to make the most inroads (IMO). If at some point, years from now, we are still in a world dominated by one tuning system, there will be those that waited for something to change, and there will be those that created something different along the way, even if it did not affect the final outcome.

                      Cherish, conserve, consider, create.

                      Cheers,
                      Jon
                    • Afmmjr@aol.com
                      You know, Alison, you could probably pick a single week that takes in 2 concerts at very reasonable airline prices. And there are plenty of nice New Yorkers
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 1 11:34 AM
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                        You know, Alison, you could probably pick a single week that takes in 2
                        concerts at very reasonable airline prices. And there are plenty of nice New
                        Yorkers that might be able to help put you up. And then some musicians might
                        be able to fly to Scotland under similar conditions.

                        Johnny Reinhard
                      • Alison Monteith
                        ... I m looking at the flights right now, and juggling time schedules. If not this year, certainly next, maybe even to perform some 22 tet guitar works. And
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 3 10:13 AM
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                          Afmmjr@... wrote:

                          > You know, Alison, you could probably pick a single week that takes in 2
                          > concerts at very reasonable airline prices. And there are plenty of nice New
                          > Yorkers that might be able to help put you up. And then some musicians might
                          > be able to fly to Scotland under similar conditions.
                          >
                          > Johnny Reinhard

                          I'm looking at the flights right now, and juggling time schedules. If not this year, certainly
                          next, maybe even to perform some 22 tet guitar works. And I'd certainly offer hospitality to
                          musicians coming to Scotland.

                          Kind Regards
                          a.m.
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