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Re: [tuning] Re: UT12 Sample

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  • monz
    ... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 31, 2001
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      > From: Paul Erlich <paul@...>
      > To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:00 PM
      > Subject: [tuning] Re: UT12 Sample
      >
      >
      > But I think the whole premise of Latchezar's argument, which is that
      > all semitones are equal, is false for Mozart. We have documented
      > evidence that Mozart, while using (UNEQUAL) well-temperaments at the
      > keyboard, taught meantone intonation (approx. 1/6-comma meantone) for
      > strings, extended through 20 tones per octave! I posted a summary of
      > this article a few months ago, and Monz made a webpage for it (Monz?)


      http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/55edo/55edo.htm



      love / peace / harmony ...

      -monz
      http://www.monz.org
      "All roads lead to n^0"





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      Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
    • graham@microtonal.co.uk
      ... I think creer should translate as believe rather than create . If not, please correct me, because it does alter the tone of that sentence. Graham
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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        > 'Latch':
        > >> Alors vraiment je m'embrouille totalement avec tout �a
        > >> et je me demande constantement a quoi peut servir
        > >> cette imonde division car je suis desol�, mais soit on
        > >> joue juste, soit on joue faux ! On peut jouer faux de
        > >> pluseurs fa�ons, ok-mais pourquoi on invente de plus
        > >> en plus des scales totalement absurdes et
        > >> insupportables ?! Ca devient une manie de diviser et
        > >> "creer" tout sorte de choses qui ne servent a rien!

        Wim's translation:
        > "So really, I'm completely mixed up with all this and I'm permanently
        > asking
        > myself to what may serve this disgusting division because I'm sorry, but
        > either one plays in tune, either one plays out of tune! there are
        > different
        > ways to play out of tune, ok-but why one invents more and more
        > completely
        > absurd and inbearable scales?! It becomes a mania to divise et "create"
        > all
        > sort of things which do not serve anything!"

        I think "creer" should translate as "believe" rather than "create". If
        not, please correct me, because it does alter the tone of that sentence.


        Graham
      • Alison Monteith
        ... Creer is definitely create. You re thinking of croire - to believe. Repeat after me Je crois, tu crois......... : - ) Regards
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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          graham@... wrote:

          > > 'Latch':
          > > >> Alors vraiment je m'embrouille totalement avec tout ça
          > > >> et je me demande constantement a quoi peut servir
          > > >> cette imonde division car je suis desolé, mais soit on
          > > >> joue juste, soit on joue faux ! On peut jouer faux de
          > > >> pluseurs façons, ok-mais pourquoi on invente de plus
          > > >> en plus des scales totalement absurdes et
          > > >> insupportables ?! Ca devient une manie de diviser et
          > > >> "creer" tout sorte de choses qui ne servent a rien!
          >
          > Wim's translation:
          > > "So really, I'm completely mixed up with all this and I'm permanently
          > > asking
          > > myself to what may serve this disgusting division because I'm sorry, but
          > > either one plays in tune, either one plays out of tune! there are
          > > different
          > > ways to play out of tune, ok-but why one invents more and more
          > > completely
          > > absurd and inbearable scales?! It becomes a mania to divise et "create"
          > > all
          > > sort of things which do not serve anything!"
          >
          > I think "creer" should translate as "believe" rather than "create". If
          > not, please correct me, because it does alter the tone of that sentence.
          >
          > Graham

          Creer is definitely create. You're thinking of croire - to believe. Repeat after me Je crois, tu
          crois......... : - )

          Regards
        • graham@microtonal.co.uk
          ... You re right about me being wrong. I was actually thinking of creo which is really Spanish. Graham
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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            Alison wrote:

            > Creer is definitely create. You're thinking of croire - to believe.
            > Repeat after me Je crois, tu
            > crois......... : - )

            You're right about me being wrong. I was actually thinking of "creo"
            which is really Spanish.


            Graham
          • Paul Erlich
            ... Examples include Werckmeister, Kirnberger, Valotti & Young, etc. Are you familiar with these? ... I have, in early piano lessons. ... Than A-220, A-110,
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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              --- In tuning@y..., Latchezar Dimitrov <latchezar_d@y...> wrote:
              > Hello ,Paul :)
              >
              > I had surprised by your proposals !
              > It's you who are write this-"unequal well-tempered"
              > tunning?
              > What is this , please?

              Examples include Werckmeister, Kirnberger, Valotti & Young, etc. Are you familiar with these?

              > Do you have play Mozart yourself ?

              I have, in early piano lessons.

              > > Well, in the stretched tuning the high As will be
              > > higher, and the low
              > > As will be lower . . .
              >
              > Lower than what ?

              Than A-220, A-110, A-55, A-27.5.

              > Do you have any other reference that the octave?

              I don't understand.

              > You remember me any thing you have say recently :)
              > (about C#=Db...)

              I don't understand that sentence.

              > >
              > > But I think the whole premise of Latchezar's
              > > argument, which is that
              > > all semitones are equal, is false for Mozart. We
              > > have documented
              > > evidence that Mozart, while using (UNEQUAL)
              > > well-temperaments at the
              > > keyboard, taught meantone intonation (approx.
              > > 1/6-comma meantone) for
              > > strings, extended through 20 tones per octave! I
              > > posted a summary of
              > > this article a few months ago, and Monz made a
              > > webpage for it (Monz?)
              > >
              > :))) Poor Mozart...
              > His music is genius and we are very small to...
              > No ?

              We are very small to . . . observe his own teachings on intonation?
            • Paul Erlich
              ... Very simple . . . consider the chain of fifths in 12-tET. The generator is 7 steps of 12-tET. So the notes are: 0 MOD 12 = 0 7 MOD 12 = 7 14 MOD 12 = 2
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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                --- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
                > --- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/27709
                >
                > > > That "wrap around" makes a scale using a generator with that
                > > > considerably more complex mathematically, doesn't it? Or doesn't
                > > it??
                > >
                > > Well, it's just a little more complex. With the "wrap around", you
                > > have to do your additions MOD the interval of equivalence. Without
                > > it, you just do the additions (e.g., for Gary Morrison's scale, 88
                > +
                > > 88 + 88 + 88 + 88 . . .) "straight".
                >
                >
                > How, exactly, does one do this "MOD?" I thought "mod" went away with
                > the bell bottoms?? :)

                Very simple . . . consider the chain of fifths in 12-tET. The generator is 7 steps of 12-tET. So the
                notes are:

                0 MOD 12 = 0
                7 MOD 12 = 7
                14 MOD 12 = 2
                21 MOD 12 = 9
                28 MOD 12 = 4
                35 MOD 12 = 11
                42 MOD 12 = 6

                etc.

                Capish?
              • Paul Erlich
                ... Well, not his _keyboard_ music, since he used unequal well-temperament on the keyboard. But he did teach string intonation in accordance with a meantone
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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                  --- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:

                  > The big question, is the question that Paul Erlich brought up, since
                  > I believe it's pretty well accepted that Mozart composed his music in
                  > 1/6 comma meantone!

                  Well, not his _keyboard_ music, since he used unequal well-temperament on the keyboard. But
                  he did teach string intonation in accordance with a meantone framework (probably close to
                  1/6-comma, but he didn't quantify it -- Daniel Wolf argued for 1/4-comma).

                  How is Monz doing on his 55-tET sequence of a Mozart symphony?
                • jpehrson@rcn.com
                  ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/27773 ... doesn t ... you ... Without ... 88 ... with ... generator is 7 steps of 12-tET. So the ... Got it!
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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                    --- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/27773

                    > --- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
                    > > --- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/27709
                    > >
                    > > > > That "wrap around" makes a scale using a generator with that
                    > > > > considerably more complex mathematically, doesn't it? Or
                    doesn't
                    > > > it??
                    > > >
                    > > > Well, it's just a little more complex. With the "wrap around",
                    you
                    > > > have to do your additions MOD the interval of equivalence.
                    Without
                    > > > it, you just do the additions (e.g., for Gary Morrison's scale,
                    88
                    > > +
                    > > > 88 + 88 + 88 + 88 . . .) "straight".
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > How, exactly, does one do this "MOD?" I thought "mod" went away
                    with
                    > > the bell bottoms?? :)
                    >
                    > Very simple . . . consider the chain of fifths in 12-tET. The
                    generator is 7 steps of 12-tET. So the
                    > notes are:
                    >
                    > 0 MOD 12 = 0
                    > 7 MOD 12 = 7
                    > 14 MOD 12 = 2
                    > 21 MOD 12 = 9
                    > 28 MOD 12 = 4
                    > 35 MOD 12 = 11
                    > 42 MOD 12 = 6
                    >
                    > etc.
                    >
                    > Capish?

                    Got it! Thanks Paul. I think I learned that in high school, but
                    that was more than five years ago...

                    ________ ________ __________
                    Joseph Pehrson
                  • genewardsmith@juno.com
                    ... He must be doing fine--my dog made no objection to the clip he heard.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 1, 2001
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                      --- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

                      > How is Monz doing on his 55-tET sequence of a Mozart symphony?

                      He must be doing fine--my dog made no objection to the clip he heard.
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