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RE: [tuning] First example of COFT-grounded adaptive tuning

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  • Ed Borasky
    Maybe I m missing something, or maybe my equipment isn t reproducing your MIDI as you have coded it, but ... well, I just don t hear a very dramatic difference
    Message 1 of 10 , May 31, 2000
      Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe my equipment isn't reproducing your
      MIDI as you have coded it, but ... well, I just don't hear a very dramatic
      difference between the three versions. Is the effect that subtle?

      I'd be interested in hearing what your tunings do with the Shostakovich
      Preludes and Fugues, Opus 87. The complete work in MIDI can be found at

      http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/5619/

      If you're not familiar with this work, it is a modern descendant of Bach's
      Well-Tempered Clavier -- 24 preludes and fugues, one in each major and minor
      key. Shostakovich, at least in his earlier years before Stalin clamped down,
      was a master at using dissonance. Although this work is much later, it
      retains some of the characteristic Shostakovich "bite". So I'm curious what
      your tunings will do ... sharpen the bite or mellow it out?


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: John A. deLaubenfels [mailto:jadl@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 2:55 PM
      > To: tuning@egroups.com
      > Subject: [tuning] First example of COFT-grounded adaptive tuning
      >
      >
      > I've posted a new file, bachcoft.zip, on my web site:
      >
      > http://www.idcomm.com/personal/jadl/
      >
      > Which contains the famous/infamous Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor,
      > MIDI sequenced by Bunji Hisamori, and tuned according to my latest
      > refinement, as hypothesized on the list back in February: first do a
      > Calculated Optimized Fixed Tuning calculation, then spring the
      > individual notes to that tuning rather than to 12-tET.
      >
      > For comparison, the .zip also contains the original 12-tET, and a COFT
      > version without dynamic tuning.
    • John A. deLaubenfels
      [Ed Borasky wrote:] ... It s fairly subtle. If you re in doubt regarding whether your equipment is reproducing the sequences as intended, go toward the bottom
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 1, 2000
        [Ed Borasky wrote:]
        >Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe my equipment isn't reproducing
        >your MIDI as you have coded it, but ... well, I just don't hear a very
        >dramatic difference between the three versions. Is the effect that
        >subtle?

        It's fairly subtle. If you're in doubt regarding whether your equipment
        is reproducing the sequences as intended, go toward the bottom of my web
        page, just above the links to other tuners, and download the two small
        MIDI files that diagnose and potentially correct your hardware's bend
        range.

        And/or, try downloading some of the 7-limit retunings (pre COFT
        grounding): they're a LOT less subtle!

        [Ed:]
        >I'd be interested in hearing what your tunings do with the Shostakovich
        >Preludes and Fugues, Opus 87. The complete work in MIDI can be found at

        >http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/5619/

        >If you're not familiar with this work, it is a modern descendant of
        >Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier -- 24 preludes and fugues, one in each
        >major and minor key. Shostakovich, at least in his earlier years before
        >Stalin clamped down, was a master at using dissonance. Although this
        >work is much later, it retains some of the characteristic Shostakovich
        >"bite". So I'm curious what your tunings will do ... sharpen the bite
        >or mellow it out?

        I'm not familiar with this, but have enjoyed the Shostakovich works I've
        heard, and am somewhat familiar with his persecution at the hands of the
        Soviets. I need to write to the sequencer, Jos‚ Oscar de Almeida
        Marques, for permission to post retunings, but in the mean time, I could
        send you one or two privately - do you have a preference?

        JdL
      • Paul H. Erlich
        John deLaubenfels wrote, ... Congratulations, John! I feel that this version represents a major advance in the field of tuning Bach. The JI quality of the
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 1, 2000
          John deLaubenfels wrote,

          >I've posted a new file, bachcoft.zip, on my web site:

          > http://www.idcomm.com/personal/jadl/

          >Which contains the famous/infamous Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor,
          >MIDI sequenced by Bunji Hisamori, and tuned according to my latest
          >refinement, as hypothesized on the list back in February: first do a
          >Calculated Optimized Fixed Tuning calculation, then spring the
          >individual notes to that tuning rather than to 12-tET.

          Congratulations, John! I feel that this version represents a major advance
          in the field of tuning Bach. The JI quality of the chords is quite evident,
          yet all audible traces of drifts and shifts have been eliminated. One
          readily believes that the piece was played on a fixed-pitch keyboard, yet it
          would be impossible to approach this level of smoothness in a true
          fixed-pitch rendition. People like Johnny Reinhard, who have dismissed the
          idea of JI Bach, need to listen to this version! Bravo! (My only complaint
          is that the dynamics should be narrowed down quite a bit.)
        • John A. deLaubenfels
          [Paul Erlich:] ... Woo-hoo!! Can it really be I ve pleased your ears? There ve been moments when I felt that was an impossible task, but trying has certainly
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 1, 2000
            [Paul Erlich:]
            >The JI quality of the chords is quite evident, yet all audible traces
            >of drifts and shifts have been eliminated. One readily believes that
            >the piece was played on a fixed-pitch keyboard, yet it would be
            >impossible to approach this level of smoothness in a true fixed-pitch
            >rendition.

            Woo-hoo!! Can it really be I've pleased your ears? There've been
            moments when I felt that was an impossible task, but trying has
            certainly pushed me harder!

            [Paul:]
            >(My only complaint is that the dynamics should be narrowed down quite a
            >bit.)

            I agree. Bunji, the sequencer, makes heavy use of dynamic range in all
            his sequences, more than I prefer. I actually make a .wav file, then
            run it through Anita, my .wav-to-.wav compressor program, but it would
            be preferable to pre-process the MIDI file and do the compression THERE.
            I'll add that capability to my list of things to do!

            JdL
          • Paul H. Erlich
            John deLaubenfels wrote, ... Sorry I made you feel that way before. I d be curious if others with sensitive ears (Ken Wauchope, etc.) would feel as excited
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 1, 2000
              John deLaubenfels wrote,

              >Woo-hoo!! Can it really be I've pleased your ears? There've been
              >moments when I felt that was an impossible task, but trying has
              >certainly pushed me harder!

              Sorry I made you feel that way before. I'd be curious if others with
              sensitive ears (Ken Wauchope, etc.) would feel as excited about your latest
              version as I do.
            • Paul H. Erlich
              Alex wrote, ... Go to http://www.idcomm.com/personal/jadl/, download bachcoft.zip, and listen to b-b-bcs5.mid.
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 1, 2000
                Alex wrote,

                >Where's this piece, I'd like to get my ears on it :)

                Go to http://www.idcomm.com/personal/jadl/, download bachcoft.zip, and
                listen to b-b-bcs5.mid.
              • ChaosMonkey
                Where s this piece, I d like to get my ears on it :) Music, Magick, Love, and Sex Alexander Azi Vajravai the ChaosMonkey
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 1, 2000
                  Where's this piece, I'd like to get my ears on it :)

                  Music, Magick, Love, and Sex
                  Alexander Azi Vajravai
                  the
                  ChaosMonkey

                  ...[Paul Erlich:]
                  >The JI quality of the chords is quite evident, yet all audible traces
                  >of drifts and shifts have been eliminated. One readily believes that
                  >the piece was played on a fixed-pitch keyboard, yet it would be
                  >impossible to approach this level of smoothness in a true fixed-pitch
                  >rendition.
                • Carl Lumma
                  ... Ditto that. This is the first version that makes it through the difficult section at 2:44. ... I m sure that exists already. Maybe on the latest version
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 1, 2000
                    >Congratulations, John! I feel that this version represents a major
                    >advance in the field of tuning Bach.

                    Ditto that. This is the first version that makes it through the
                    difficult section at 2:44.


                    >>(My only complaint is that the dynamics should be narrowed down quite a
                    >>bit.)
                    >
                    >I agree. Bunji, the sequencer, makes heavy use of dynamic range in all
                    >his sequences, more than I prefer. I actually make a .wav file, then
                    >run it through Anita, my .wav-to-.wav compressor program, but it would
                    >be preferable to pre-process the MIDI file and do the compression THERE.
                    >I'll add that capability to my list of things to do!

                    I'm sure that exists already. Maybe on the latest version of Cakewalk.

                    Read Spanish? http://www.music-center.com.br/midicomp.htm


                    -Carl
                  • John A. deLaubenfels
                    [Paul Erlich:] ... [JdL:] ... [Carl Lumma:] ... Portuguese, actually, and I don t read that any better than Spanish! It seems to be a brief description of
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 2, 2000
                      [Paul Erlich:]
                      >>>(My only complaint is that the dynamics should be narrowed down quite
                      >>>a bit.)

                      [JdL:]
                      >>I agree. Bunji, the sequencer, makes heavy use of dynamic range in
                      >>all his sequences, more than I prefer. I actually make a .wav file,
                      >>then run it through Anita, my .wav-to-.wav compressor program, but it
                      >>would be preferable to pre-process the MIDI file and do the
                      >>compression THERE. I'll add that capability to my list of things to
                      >>do!

                      [Carl Lumma:]
                      >I'm sure that exists already. Maybe on the latest version of Cakewalk.
                      >Read Spanish? http://www.music-center.com.br/midicomp.htm

                      Portuguese, actually, and I don't read that any better than Spanish! It
                      seems to be a brief description of what compression IS, then a
                      description of how to use the compression feature in Cakewalk.

                      I don't have Cakewalk, but as far as I can tell from this page, it only
                      compresses note velocity. What really needs to be done is a bit more
                      complex, and represents a weakness in my existing tuning program: many
                      sequences begin life on different channels, each with its own channel
                      volume, perhaps one for the left hand, one for the right hand, for
                      example. Because I use pitch bends, I need to reshuffle the channel
                      assignments, and a C from the left hand joins a C from the right hand on
                      channel 0, etc. That channel can have only one channel volume! So,
                      whatever channel volume I assign to the final sequence, I need to adjust
                      the note velocities when notes came from an original channel with a
                      different volume! What a mess!

                      And, channel volume is an important part of a complete compression
                      process, especially when a sequence uses varying volume in addition to
                      varying note velocities.

                      JdL
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