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Re: Planet X debate (2)

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  • DrPostman
    ... was ... in ... path. ... We ve come a bit of a way since Tombaugh. Why do people try to prove pseudoscience with old and outdated information? Jamie
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
      --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
      > A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet - Planet X -
      was
      > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It wasn't
      > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth planet
      in
      > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto was indeed
      > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too small to
      > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
      >
      path.
      >


      We've come a bit of a way since Tombaugh. Why do people try to
      prove pseudoscience with old and outdated information?


      Jamie
    • Hap Griffin
      ... From: xpain2 To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2) ... responsible for altering
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: xpain2
        To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
        Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)


        >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet - Planet X - was
        responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It wasn't
        until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth planet in
        our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto was indeed
        Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too small to
        greatly affect Neptune's orbital
        path.

        > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html


        You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer any discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/hypo.html#planetx :

        Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and Voyagers 1 and 2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be used as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from unknown planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded more accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated masses were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar system, the residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally disappeared. It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to an end.

        Hap






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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • xpain2
        ... was ... in ... indeed ... to ... path. ... discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
          --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@s...> wrote:
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: xpain2
          > To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
          > Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)
          >
          >
          > >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet - Planet X -
          was
          > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It wasn't
          > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth planet
          in
          > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto was
          indeed
          > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too small
          to
          > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
          >
          path.
          >

          > > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html
          >
          >
          > You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer any
          discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
          http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/hypo.html#planetx
          :
          >
          > Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and Voyagers 1 and
          2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be used
          as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from unknown
          planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded more
          accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated masses
          were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar system, the
          residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally disappeared.
          It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to an end.
          >
          >
          Hap


          > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in 1997',
          when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good luck in
          finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore Pluto,
          and the oort belt...Solon.
        • openmindxx
          ... - ... wasn t ... planet ... small ... ets/hypo.html#planetx ... and ... the ... disappeared. ... Pluto, ... Please document these statements. Tombaugh was
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
            --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
            > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@s...>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: xpain2
            > > To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
            > > Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)
            > >
            > >
            > > >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet - Planet X
            -
            > was
            > > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It
            wasn't
            > > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth
            planet
            > in
            > > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto was
            > indeed
            > > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too
            small
            > to
            > > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
            > >
            > path.

            > >

            >
            > > > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html
            > >
            > >
            > > You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer any
            > discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
            > http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplan
            ets/hypo.html#planetx
            > :
            > >
            > > Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and Voyagers 1
            and
            > 2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be used
            > as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from unknown
            > planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded more
            > accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated masses
            > were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar system,
            the
            > residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally
            disappeared.
            > It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to an end.
            > >
            > >
            > Hap

            >

            >

            > > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in 1997',
            > when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good luck in
            > finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore
            Pluto,
            > and the oort belt...Solon.

            Please document these statements. Tombaugh was a hard working
            astronomer whose contributions went beyond finding Pluto (he was one
            of very few who suggested that Mars was likely to have many surface
            impact craters) but in my contacts with him I do not recall such
            statements.

            The Oort cloud remains well out of our reach and no object in the Oort
            cloud has ever been imaged. We believe it exists solely based on
            statistical studies of comet orbits.

            IMO FODS #831
          • xpain2
            ... X ... path. ... unknown ... masses ... end. ... Hap ... 1997 , ... in ... Oort ... #831 ... documented go look at it...Solon.
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
              --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...> wrote:
              > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
              > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@s...>
              > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: xpain2
              > > > To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
              > > > Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet - Planet
              X
              > -
              > > was
              > > > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It
              > wasn't
              > > > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth
              > planet
              > > in
              > > > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto was
              > > indeed
              > > > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too
              > small
              > > to
              > > > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
              > > >
              > >
              path.
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              > >
              > > > > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer any
              > > discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
              > > http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplan
              > ets/hypo.html#planetx
              > > :
              > > >
              > > > Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and Voyagers 1
              > and
              > > 2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be used
              > > as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from
              unknown
              > > planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded more
              > > accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated
              masses
              > > were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar system,
              > the
              > > residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally
              > disappeared.
              > > It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to an
              end.
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              Hap
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > > > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in
              1997',
              > > when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good luck
              in
              > > finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore
              > Pluto,
              > > and the oort belt...Solon.
              >
              > Please document these statements. Tombaugh was a hard working
              > astronomer whose contributions went beyond finding Pluto (he was one
              > of very few who suggested that Mars was likely to have many surface
              > impact craters) but in my contacts with him I do not recall such
              > statements.
              >
              > The Oort cloud remains well out of our reach and no object in the
              Oort
              > cloud has ever been imaged. We believe it exists solely based on
              > statistical studies of comet orbits.
              >
              > IMO FODS
              #831

              > Hey! You are opening your mind..And i don't mean to pick..It's all
              documented go look at it...Solon.
            • openmindxx
              ... Please give a specific reference. This does not sound like anything I recall Clyde Tombaugh having said or anything I have seen written by him. He
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
                --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...> wrote:
                > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@s...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > From: xpain2
                > > > > To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
                > > > > Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet - Planet
                > X
                > > -
                > > > was
                > > > > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It
                > > wasn't
                > > > > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth
                > > planet
                > > > in
                > > > > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto was
                > > > indeed
                > > > > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too
                > > small
                > > > to
                > > > > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
                > > > >
                > > >
                > path.
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >
                > > > > > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer any
                > > > discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
                > > > http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplan
                > > ets/hypo.html#planetx
                > > > :
                > > > >
                > > > > Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and Voyagers 1
                > > and
                > > > 2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be used
                > > > as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from
                > unknown
                > > > planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded more
                > > > accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated
                > masses
                > > > were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar system,
                > > the
                > > > residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally
                > > disappeared.
                > > > It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to an
                > end.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > Hap
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > > > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in
                > 1997',
                > > > when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good luck
                > in
                > > > finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore
                > > Pluto,
                > > > and the oort belt...Solon.
                > >
                > > Please document these statements. Tombaugh was a hard working
                > > astronomer whose contributions went beyond finding Pluto (he was one
                > > of very few who suggested that Mars was likely to have many surface
                > > impact craters) but in my contacts with him I do not recall such
                > > statements.
                > >
                > > The Oort cloud remains well out of our reach and no object in the
                > Oort
                > > cloud has ever been imaged. We believe it exists solely based on
                > > statistical studies of comet orbits.
                > >
                > > IMO FODS
                > #831
                >
                > > Hey! You are opening your mind..And i don't mean to pick..It's all
                > documented go look at it...Solon.

                Please give a specific reference. This does not sound like anything I
                recall Clyde Tombaugh having said or anything I have seen written by
                him. He certainly was not "still looking in 1997 when he died". He
                was in poor health for the last few years of his life, and was
                unhappily unable to carry on either his lecture travels or observing.
              • Michael L Cunningham
                ... Exactly WHERE is this documented? Tombaugh wasn t observing for the last few years of his life due to his poor health. Michael Fraternal Order of Drunken
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
                  At 03:10 PM 11/1/2003 +0000, you wrote:

                  > > > > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in
                  >1997',
                  > > > when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good luck
                  >in
                  > > > finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore
                  > > Pluto,
                  > > > and the oort belt...Solon.
                  > >
                  > > Please document these statements. Tombaugh was a hard working
                  > > astronomer whose contributions went beyond finding Pluto (he was one
                  > > of very few who suggested that Mars was likely to have many surface
                  > > impact craters) but in my contacts with him I do not recall such
                  > > statements.
                  > >
                  > > The Oort cloud remains well out of our reach and no object in the
                  >Oort
                  > > cloud has ever been imaged. We believe it exists solely based on
                  > > statistical studies of comet orbits.
                  > >
                  > > IMO FODS
                  >#831
                  >
                  > > Hey! You are opening your mind..And i don't mean to pick..It's all
                  >documented go look at it...Solon.

                  Exactly WHERE is this documented? Tombaugh wasn't observing for
                  the last few years of his life due to his poor health.

                  Michael

                  Fraternal Order of Drunken Sailors #001
                  FODS #001
                • xpain2
                  ... Planet ... was ... path. ... any ... Voyagers 1 ... used ... more ... system, ... an ... Hap ... luck ... was one ... surface ... the ... on ... #831 ...
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
                    --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...> wrote:
                    > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                    > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...>
                    wrote:
                    > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                    > > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@s...>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > > From: xpain2
                    > > > > > To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
                    > > > > > Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet -
                    Planet
                    > > X
                    > > > -
                    > > > > was
                    > > > > > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It
                    > > > wasn't
                    > > > > > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth
                    > > > planet
                    > > > > in
                    > > > > > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto
                    was
                    > > > > indeed
                    > > > > > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too
                    > > > small
                    > > > > to
                    > > > > > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    path.
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer
                    any
                    > > > > discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
                    > > > > http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplan
                    > > > ets/hypo.html#planetx
                    > > > > :
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and
                    Voyagers 1
                    > > > and
                    > > > > 2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be
                    used
                    > > > > as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from
                    > > unknown
                    > > > > planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded
                    more
                    > > > > accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated
                    > > masses
                    > > > > were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar
                    system,
                    > > > the
                    > > > > residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally
                    > > > disappeared.
                    > > > > It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to
                    an
                    > > end.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    Hap
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > > > > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in
                    > > 1997',
                    > > > > when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good
                    luck
                    > > in
                    > > > > finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore
                    > > > Pluto,
                    > > > > and the oort belt...Solon.
                    > > >
                    > > > Please document these statements. Tombaugh was a hard working
                    > > > astronomer whose contributions went beyond finding Pluto (he
                    was one
                    > > > of very few who suggested that Mars was likely to have many
                    surface
                    > > > impact craters) but in my contacts with him I do not recall such
                    > > > statements.
                    > > >
                    > > > The Oort cloud remains well out of our reach and no object in
                    the
                    > > Oort
                    > > > cloud has ever been imaged. We believe it exists solely based
                    on
                    > > > statistical studies of comet orbits.
                    > > >
                    > > > IMO FODS
                    > >
                    #831
                    >
                    >

                    > > > Hey! You are opening your mind..And i don't mean to pick..It's
                    all
                    > > documented go look at it...Solon.
                    >
                    > Please give a specific reference. This does not sound like
                    anything I
                    > recall Clyde Tombaugh having said or anything I have seen written by
                    > him. He certainly was not "still looking in 1997 when he died". He
                    > was in poor health for the last few years of his life, and was
                    > unhappily unable to carry on either his lecture travels or
                    observing.

                    >

                    More scientists got involved. This was really turning into
                    a "planet hunt" and now had been going on for over a half of a
                    century (50 years). It was 1988, just eleven years ago. This time,
                    they were not looking at the ninth planet, Pluto, but instead, they
                    were looking for a tenth planet - Planet X (did you know that in
                    Roman numerals, X means ten? That's why it's called Planet X, it
                    stands for the tenth planet). Clyde Tombaugh wished them luck in
                    their planet hunt. (Remember Clyde? He's the guy that discoverd Pluto
                    in the first place) He was getting older now, he was in his
                    80's. "They're in for a lot of hard work", he
                    said.

                    > http://www.uri.edu/ce/faceit/astronomy/PlanetX.htm
                  • Michael L Cunningham
                    ... Sorry but that is NOT documentation. Michael Fraternal Order of Drunken Sailors #001 FODS #001
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
                      At 04:47 PM 11/1/2003 +0000, you wrote:

                      > More scientists got involved. This was really turning into
                      >a "planet hunt" and now had been going on for over a half of a
                      >century (50 years). It was 1988, just eleven years ago. This time,
                      >they were not looking at the ninth planet, Pluto, but instead, they
                      >were looking for a tenth planet - Planet X (did you know that in
                      >Roman numerals, X means ten? That's why it's called Planet X, it
                      >stands for the tenth planet). Clyde Tombaugh wished them luck in
                      >their planet hunt. (Remember Clyde? He's the guy that discoverd Pluto
                      >in the first place) He was getting older now, he was in his
                      >80's. "They're in for a lot of hard work", he
                      >said.
                      >
                      > > http://www.uri.edu/ce/faceit/astronomy/PlanetX.htm

                      Sorry but that is NOT documentation.


                      Michael

                      Fraternal Order of Drunken Sailors #001
                      FODS #001
                    • Hap Griffin
                      ... From: xpain2 To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:47 AM Subject: [tt-watch] Re: Planet X debate (2) ... Planet ... was ...
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: xpain2
                        To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:47 AM
                        Subject: [tt-watch] Re: Planet X debate (2)


                        --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...> wrote:
                        > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                        > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...>
                        wrote:
                        > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                        > > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@s...>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > > From: xpain2
                        > > > > > To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
                        > > > > > Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet -
                        Planet
                        > > X
                        > > > -
                        > > > > was
                        > > > > > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It
                        > > > wasn't
                        > > > > > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth
                        > > > planet
                        > > > > in
                        > > > > > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto
                        was
                        > > > > indeed
                        > > > > > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too
                        > > > small
                        > > > > to
                        > > > > > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        path.
                        > > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer
                        any
                        > > > > discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
                        > > > > http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplan
                        > > > ets/hypo.html#planetx
                        > > > > :
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and
                        Voyagers 1
                        > > > and
                        > > > > 2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be
                        used
                        > > > > as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from
                        > > unknown
                        > > > > planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded
                        more
                        > > > > accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated
                        > > masses
                        > > > > were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar
                        system,
                        > > > the
                        > > > > residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally
                        > > > disappeared.
                        > > > > It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to
                        an
                        > > end.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        Hap
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        > > > > > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in
                        > > 1997',
                        > > > > when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good
                        luck
                        > > in
                        > > > > finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore
                        > > > Pluto,
                        > > > > and the oort belt...Solon.
                        > > >
                        > > > Please document these statements. Tombaugh was a hard working
                        > > > astronomer whose contributions went beyond finding Pluto (he
                        was one
                        > > > of very few who suggested that Mars was likely to have many
                        surface
                        > > > impact craters) but in my contacts with him I do not recall such
                        > > > statements.
                        > > >
                        > > > The Oort cloud remains well out of our reach and no object in
                        the
                        > > Oort
                        > > > cloud has ever been imaged. We believe it exists solely based
                        on
                        > > > statistical studies of comet orbits.
                        > > >
                        > > > IMO FODS
                        > >
                        #831
                        >
                        >

                        > > > Hey! You are opening your mind..And i don't mean to pick..It's
                        all
                        > > documented go look at it...Solon.
                        >
                        > Please give a specific reference. This does not sound like
                        anything I
                        > recall Clyde Tombaugh having said or anything I have seen written by
                        > him. He certainly was not "still looking in 1997 when he died". He
                        > was in poor health for the last few years of his life, and was
                        > unhappily unable to carry on either his lecture travels or
                        observing.

                        >

                        > More scientists got involved. This was really turning into
                        a "planet hunt" and now had been going on for over a half of a
                        century (50 years). It was 1988, just eleven years ago. This time,
                        they were not looking at the ninth planet, Pluto, but instead, they
                        were looking for a tenth planet - Planet X (did you know that in
                        Roman numerals, X means ten? That's why it's called Planet X, it
                        stands for the tenth planet). Clyde Tombaugh wished them luck in
                        their planet hunt. (Remember Clyde? He's the guy that discoverd Pluto
                        in the first place) He was getting older now, he was in his
                        80's. "They're in for a lot of hard work", he
                        said.

                        > http://www.uri.edu/ce/faceit/astronomy/PlanetX.htm



                        Just back up one page in the URL you posted and you'll see this:

                        "This site is great fun for kids of all ages.
                        It is a fun-filled start into Space and Astronomy (the science of the stars)! It's the place to be if you're looking for some fun-science and like space and astronomy. Or, if you don't know too much about space and astronomy, it's the place to be - because it's just good fun!"
                        Couln't find anything any more authoritative than this, huh?

                        Hap







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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • openmindxx
                        ... Over and over it has been pointed out in this forum that small apparent discrepancies in orbital motions in the solar system lead some astronomers to
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
                          --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                          > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...> wrote:
                          > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                          > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "openmindxx" <imopenmind@n...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "xpain2" <solkra@a...> wrote:
                          > > > > > --- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@s...>
                          > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > > > From: xpain2
                          > > > > > > To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:21 AM
                          > > > > > > Subject: [tt-watch] Planet X debate (2)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >A century ago, scientists believed a mystery planet -
                          > Planet
                          > > > X
                          > > > > -
                          > > > > > was
                          > > > > > > responsible for altering the expected orbit of Neptune. It
                          > > > > wasn't
                          > > > > > > until 1930 that Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto, the ninth
                          > > > > planet
                          > > > > > in
                          > > > > > > our solar system. For a while it was assumed that Pluto
                          > was
                          > > > > > indeed
                          > > > > > > Planet X, but it soon became clear that Pluto was much too
                          > > > > small
                          > > > > > to
                          > > > > > > greatly affect Neptune's orbital
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > path.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > http://www.montshire.net/minute/mm011105.html
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > You need to catch up on your science. There is no longer
                          > any
                          > > > > > discrepancy in the orbits of the outer planets. From
                          > > > > > http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplan
                          > > > > ets/hypo.html#planetx
                          > > > > > :
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Meanwhile, the spacecraft Pioneer 10 and 11 and
                          > Voyagers 1
                          > > > > and
                          > > > > > 2 had travelled outside the solar system, and could also be
                          > used
                          > > > > > as "probes" for unknown gravitational forces possibly from
                          > > > unknown
                          > > > > > planets -- nothing has been found. The Voyagers also yielded
                          > more
                          > > > > > accurate masses for the outer planets -- when these updated
                          > > > masses
                          > > > > > were inserted in the numerical integrations of the solar
                          > system,
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > > residuals in the positions of the outer planets finally
                          > > > > disappeared.
                          > > > > > It seems like the search for "Planet X" finally has come to
                          > an
                          > > > end.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > Hap
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > > Tombaugh, one of the best there was, was still looking in
                          > > > 1997',
                          > > > > > when he died..He wished fellow scientist/ astronomers good
                          > luck
                          > > > in
                          > > > > > finding the real planet X..And we're just now going to explore
                          > > > > Pluto,
                          > > > > > and the oort belt...Solon.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Please document these statements. Tombaugh was a hard working
                          > > > > astronomer whose contributions went beyond finding Pluto (he
                          > was one
                          > > > > of very few who suggested that Mars was likely to have many
                          > surface
                          > > > > impact craters) but in my contacts with him I do not recall such
                          > > > > statements.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The Oort cloud remains well out of our reach and no object in
                          > the
                          > > > Oort
                          > > > > cloud has ever been imaged. We believe it exists solely based
                          > on
                          > > > > statistical studies of comet orbits.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > IMO FODS
                          > > >
                          > #831
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > Hey! You are opening your mind..And i don't mean to pick..It's
                          > all
                          > > > documented go look at it...Solon.
                          > >
                          > > Please give a specific reference. This does not sound like
                          > anything I
                          > > recall Clyde Tombaugh having said or anything I have seen written by
                          > > him. He certainly was not "still looking in 1997 when he died". He
                          > > was in poor health for the last few years of his life, and was
                          > > unhappily unable to carry on either his lecture travels or
                          > observing.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > More scientists got involved. This was really turning into
                          > a "planet hunt" and now had been going on for over a half of a
                          > century (50 years). It was 1988, just eleven years ago. This time,
                          > they were not looking at the ninth planet, Pluto, but instead, they
                          > were looking for a tenth planet - Planet X (did you know that in
                          > Roman numerals, X means ten? That's why it's called Planet X, it
                          > stands for the tenth planet). Clyde Tombaugh wished them luck in
                          > their planet hunt. (Remember Clyde? He's the guy that discoverd Pluto
                          > in the first place) He was getting older now, he was in his
                          > 80's. "They're in for a lot of hard work", he
                          > said.
                          >
                          > > http://www.uri.edu/ce/faceit/astronomy/PlanetX.htm

                          Over and over it has been pointed out in this forum that small
                          apparent discrepancies in orbital motions in the solar system lead
                          some astronomers to hypothesize a "Planet X". It has also been
                          pointed out (and documented) that careful analysis of the motions of
                          the Voyager I & II spacecraft lead to the realization that small
                          changes were needed in the assumed masses of Uranus and Neptune.
                          After these changes were made in the models, the discrepancies went
                          away. The sarcasm above explaining the identity of Clyde Tombaugh to
                          someone who had already said he knew him was unneccesary, as was the
                          explanation of the Roman numeral system.
                        • mr_john_jones2003
                          [...] This bears repeating: Over and over it has been pointed out in this forum that small apparent discrepancies in orbital motions in the solar system lead
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 1, 2003
                            [...]

                            This bears repeating:


                            "Over and over it has been pointed out in this forum that small
                            apparent discrepancies in orbital motions in the solar system lead
                            some astronomers to hypothesize a "Planet X". It has also been
                            pointed out (and documented) that careful analysis of the motions of
                            the Voyager I & II spacecraft lead to the realization that small
                            changes were needed in the assumed masses of Uranus and Neptune.
                            After these changes were made in the models, the discrepancies went
                            away."
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