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[tt-forum] Re: Food for Thought/Domes

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  • Educate-Yourself
    ... From: brenfree@excite.com To: tt-gossip@egroups.com Cc: tt-Forum@egroups.com Date:
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1, 1999
      -----Original Message-----
      From: brenfree@... <brenfree@...>
      To: tt-gossip@egroups.com <tt-gossip@egroups.com>
      Cc: tt-Forum@egroups.com <tt-Forum@egroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 10:45 PM
      Subject: [tt-forum] Re: Food for Thought/Domes


      >On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:06:55 EDT, JThomp9373@... wrote:

      >You bring up an excellent point though - personal and structural survival
      >during the PS firestorms. I've been relatively close to a few wildfires.
      >Extreme heat and smoke, low oxygen, disorientation. I imagine we can
      >multiply that by at least several thousand, and that might be what the PS
      >firestormes would be like.I think the sheet aluminum coverage is a good
      >idea, but is there something we could use that is less expensive?


      Look, aluminum BURNS and will ignite when a certain temperature is reached.
      Don't depend on aluminum for firestorm protection

      Educate-yourself Editor
    • brenfree@excite.com
      ... reached. ... O.K., So what is your suggestion for firestorm protection? Brent ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1, 1999
        On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:26:27 -0700, Educate-Yourself wrote:

        >
        > Look, aluminum BURNS and will ignite when a certain temperature is
        reached.
        > Don't depend on aluminum for firestorm protection
        >
        > Educate-yourself Editor
        >


        O.K., So what is your suggestion for firestorm protection?

        Brent




        ________________________________________________________________
        Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
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      • Educate-Yourself
        Things that don t burn so easily. Ever heard of steel, concrete, rock, earth, ... From: brenfree@excite.com To: tt-forum@egroups.com
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 1, 1999
          Things that don't burn so easily. Ever heard of steel, concrete, rock,
          earth,
          -----Original Message-----
          From: brenfree@... <brenfree@...>
          To: tt-forum@egroups.com <tt-forum@egroups.com>
          Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:19 PM
          Subject: [tt-forum] Re: Food for Thought/Domes


          >On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:26:27 -0700, Educate-Yourself wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> Look, aluminum BURNS and will ignite when a certain temperature is
          >reached.
          >> Don't depend on aluminum for firestorm protection
          >>
          >> Educate-yourself Editor
          >>
          >
          >
          >O.K., So what is your suggestion for firestorm protection?
          >
          >Brent
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >________________________________________________________________
          >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
          >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/tt-forum
          >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • brenfree@excite.com
          ... Why, YES!, Yes of course! Why didn t I think of that! Hmmmmm.......... They also make ovens out of those materials........ Now that we have gotten through
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 1, 1999
            "educate-yourself" <surf/pitar-@...> wrote:
            > Things that don't burn so easily. Ever heard of steel, concrete, rock,
            > earth,



            Why, YES!, Yes of course! Why didn't I think of that! Hmmmmm..........
            They also make ovens out of those materials........

            Now that we have gotten through the sarcasm, how about serious
            discussion on how to insulate without cooking ourselves, and breathable
            air without frying our lungs.

            Brent
          • jcook
            ... I hear asbestos is heat resistant material. : ) Ok you said no more sarcasm. Take a look at this site if you want to see a hi-tech (expensive!) solution...
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 5, 1999
              >"educate-yourself" <surf/pitar-@...> wrote:
              >> Things that don't burn so easily. Ever heard of steel, concrete, rock,
              >> earth,
              >
              >
              >Why, YES!, Yes of course! Why didn't I think of that! Hmmmmm..........
              >They also make ovens out of those materials........
              >
              >Now that we have gotten through the sarcasm, how about serious
              >discussion on how to insulate without cooking ourselves, and breathable
              >air without frying our lungs.
              >
              >Brent
              >


              I hear asbestos is heat resistant material. : ) Ok you said no more sarcasm.

              Take a look at this site if you want to see a hi-tech (expensive!)
              solution...

              http://www.chemfab.com/

              Looks like these guys have built some domes before! Look at
              Productline---Radomes.

              --------------------------------------------------------

              "The first modern air structure was a radome developed at Cornell
              Aeronautical Laboratory in the early 1950's. It was specially designed to
              meet the need for a thin wall, nonmetallic enclosure to protect large radar
              systems from high winds and severe weather"

              ===========================================

              THIS is probably a better solution though...

              http://www.firefree.com/

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------

              "Welcome to the Firefree 88 Website! This site is all about an exciting new
              fire protection product which applies like paint. This product is going to
              revolutionize the way buildings and structures are protected from fire."

              ..."Withstand concentrated flame temperatures in excess of 2,000 ºF for two
              hours and maintains its integrity without degradation."

              -----------------------------------------------------------

              How would you like to just paint on fire protection over your steel,
              concrete, rock, or earth?

              I guess there are many solutions, but many variables need to be taken into
              account...Cost, Insulator Efficiency, and Effectiveness to name a few.
              Somewhere theres a balance in there that'll make a good solution.

              Cya,
              Jon

              PS, Here is an example of some of the products you could include in your
              building plans to help keep the dome fire resistant. (however without
              knowing the cost of these products it's hard to tell if they are a feasible
              solution.)

              http://www.geobond.net/
              http://www.durasystems.com/
            • herbsforresults
              You guys are making in to complicated and to expensive. Using contrete and and ample re-bar and build octagon 24 walls 4 feet high with a 24 thick dome
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 7, 1999
                You guys are making in to complicated and to expensive. Using contrete and
                and ample re-bar and build octagon 24" walls 4 feet high with a 24" thick
                dome top. Set your 24" concrete floor and walls in the side of a hill with
                drain rock and drain pipe around the footing floor, double coat the concrete
                walls and concrete top with standard foundation water proofing material
                readily available and then cover the entire structure with dirt with a
                rented bobcat. The door can be one can be be shut, sealed & latched with am
                igloo type opening to include the addition of a protective concrete barrier
                across the front (required one to turn right or left to exit). Calculate
                the needed oxygen for a couple days and keep enough available green bottles
                to tide you over the initial potential fire problems. A home made carbon
                filter using barbaque bricketts will work as an air purifyer. You won't
                have much to do so a hand cranked squirrel cage fan can be used to circulate
                the air. A water tank can be constructed as an integral part of the
                structure with other ample storage closets built in for items required for
                survival.
                Michael
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: jcook <jcook@...>
                To: <tt-forum@egroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 4:35 PM
                Subject: [tt-forum] Re: Food for Thought/Domes


                > >"educate-yourself" <surf/pitar-@...> wrote:
                > >> Things that don't burn so easily. Ever heard of steel, concrete, rock,
                > >> earth,
                > >
                > >
                > >Why, YES!, Yes of course! Why didn't I think of that! Hmmmmm..........
                > >They also make ovens out of those materials........
                > >
                > >Now that we have gotten through the sarcasm, how about serious
                > >discussion on how to insulate without cooking ourselves, and breathable
                > >air without frying our lungs.
                > >
                > >Brent
                > >
                >
                >
                > I hear asbestos is heat resistant material. : ) Ok you said no more
                sarcasm.
                >
                > Take a look at this site if you want to see a hi-tech (expensive!)
                > solution...
                >
                > http://www.chemfab.com/
                >
                > Looks like these guys have built some domes before! Look at
                > Productline---Radomes.
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > "The first modern air structure was a radome developed at Cornell
                > Aeronautical Laboratory in the early 1950's. It was specially designed to
                > meet the need for a thin wall, nonmetallic enclosure to protect large
                radar
                > systems from high winds and severe weather"
                >
                > ===========================================
                >
                > THIS is probably a better solution though...
                >
                > http://www.firefree.com/
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > "Welcome to the Firefree 88 Website! This site is all about an exciting
                new
                > fire protection product which applies like paint. This product is going to
                > revolutionize the way buildings and structures are protected from fire."
                >
                > ..."Withstand concentrated flame temperatures in excess of 2,000 ºF for
                two
                > hours and maintains its integrity without degradation."
                >
                > -----------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > How would you like to just paint on fire protection over your steel,
                > concrete, rock, or earth?
                >
                > I guess there are many solutions, but many variables need to be taken into
                > account...Cost, Insulator Efficiency, and Effectiveness to name a few.
                > Somewhere theres a balance in there that'll make a good solution.
                >
                > Cya,
                > Jon
                >
                > PS, Here is an example of some of the products you could include in your
                > building plans to help keep the dome fire resistant. (however without
                > knowing the cost of these products it's hard to tell if they are a
                feasible
                > solution.)
                >
                > http://www.geobond.net/
                > http://www.durasystems.com/
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/tt-forum
                > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • brenfree@excite.com
                ... sarcasm. ... two ... feasible ... Thanks for the great input Jon,(and the Humor!) All great websites....I especially like the Firefee paint on fire
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 7, 1999
                  On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:35:17 -0000, jcook wrote:


                  > I hear asbestos is heat resistant material. : ) Ok you said no more
                  sarcasm.
                  >
                  > Take a look at this site if you want to see a hi-tech (expensive!)
                  > solution...
                  >
                  > http://www.chemfab.com/
                  >
                  > Looks like these guys have built some domes before! Look at
                  > Productline---Radomes.
                  >

                  > ===========================================
                  >
                  > THIS is probably a better solution though...
                  >
                  > http://www.firefree.com/
                  >
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------
                  > ..."Withstand concentrated flame temperatures in excess of 2,000 �F for
                  two
                  > hours and maintains its integrity without degradation."
                  >
                  > -----------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > How would you like to just paint on fire protection over your steel,
                  > concrete, rock, or earth?
                  >

                  > Somewhere theres a balance in there that'll make a good solution.
                  >
                  > Cya,
                  > Jon
                  >
                  > PS, Here is an example of some of the products you could include in your
                  > building plans to help keep the dome fire resistant. (however without
                  > knowing the cost of these products it's hard to tell if they are a
                  feasible
                  > solution.)
                  >
                  > http://www.geobond.net/
                  > http://www.durasystems.com/



                  Thanks for the great input Jon,(and the Humor!) All great websites....I
                  especially like the Firefee paint on fire protection, What a great idea. I
                  guess my main concern has been surviving the intense heat of a firestorm.
                  granted, if you are in a cement dome, say, surrounded by an earth berm you
                  might feel pretty safe. But the intensity and the duration of the heat will
                  determine how safe you really are. The dome might not burn, but the heat
                  generated AROUND it might cook whoever is inside, like an oven. I don't know
                  of any studies out there reguarding this subject, except recommendations to
                  build deep underground. Mabe build partially underground, with more earth
                  over the dome structure? How deep is safe? How much earth over the top?

                  And what about air circulation inside?

                  By the way.....I as yet don't have any "building plans of my own". First I
                  guess I have to get away from the West Coast, then decide where to build. So
                  much to do!!! :)

                  Brent




                  ________________________________________________________________
                  Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
                  Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com
                • brenfree@excite.com
                  ... sarcasm. ... two ... feasible ... Thanks for the great input Jon,(and the Humor!) All great websites....I especially like the Firefee paint on fire
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 7, 1999
                    On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:35:17 -0000, jcook wrote:


                    > I hear asbestos is heat resistant material. : ) Ok you said no more
                    sarcasm.
                    >
                    > Take a look at this site if you want to see a hi-tech (expensive!)
                    > solution...
                    >
                    > http://www.chemfab.com/
                    >
                    > Looks like these guys have built some domes before! Look at
                    > Productline---Radomes.
                    >

                    > ===========================================
                    >
                    > THIS is probably a better solution though...
                    >
                    > http://www.firefree.com/
                    >
                    > ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > ..."Withstand concentrated flame temperatures in excess of 2,000 �F for
                    two
                    > hours and maintains its integrity without degradation."
                    >
                    > -----------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    > How would you like to just paint on fire protection over your steel,
                    > concrete, rock, or earth?
                    >

                    > Somewhere theres a balance in there that'll make a good solution.
                    >
                    > Cya,
                    > Jon
                    >
                    > PS, Here is an example of some of the products you could include in your
                    > building plans to help keep the dome fire resistant. (however without
                    > knowing the cost of these products it's hard to tell if they are a
                    feasible
                    > solution.)
                    >
                    > http://www.geobond.net/
                    > http://www.durasystems.com/



                    Thanks for the great input Jon,(and the Humor!) All great websites....I
                    especially like the Firefee paint on fire protection, What a great idea. I
                    guess my main concern has been surviving the intense heat of a firestorm.
                    granted, if you are in a cement dome, say, surrounded by an earth berm you
                    might feel pretty safe. But the intensity and the duration of the heat will
                    determine how safe you really are. The dome might not burn, but the heat
                    generated AROUND it might cook whoever is inside, like an oven. I don't know
                    of any studies out there reguarding this subject, except recommendations to
                    build deep underground. Mabe build partially underground, with more earth
                    over the dome structure? How deep is safe? How much earth over the top?

                    And what about air circulation inside?

                    By the way.....I as yet don't have any "building plans of my own". First I
                    guess I have to get away from the West Coast, then decide where to build. So
                    much to do!!! :)

                    Brent




                    ________________________________________________________________
                    Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
                    Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com
                  • brenfree@excite.com
                    ... Thanks for the great input, Michael! You simplified and explained the problems very well,(I do tend to over complicate solutions.) I feel confident your
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 7, 1999
                      On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:21:24 -0700, herbsforresults wrote:

                      > You guys are making in to complicated and to expensive.
                      > Michael


                      Thanks for the great input, Michael! You simplified and explained the
                      problems very well,(I do tend to over complicate solutions.) I feel
                      confident your suggestions will work. Now all I have to do is find a place
                      to build it!

                      Brent




                      ________________________________________________________________
                      Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
                      Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com
                    • COMPOSE12@aol.com
                      In a message dated 10/7/99 1:23:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, herbsforresults@agalis.net writes:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 7, 1999
                        In a message dated 10/7/99 1:23:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        herbsforresults@... writes:

                        << You guys are making in to complicated and to expensive. Using contrete and
                        and ample re-bar and build octagon 24" walls 4 feet high with a 24" thick >>

                        I'll tell you that r-control panels that were talked about a couple of weeks
                        ago and made all over the country can do the same thing, they are much
                        lighter and it's a regular production product. They are building a freeway
                        off ramp out of the stuff in Michigan.
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