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Can we have a conclusion to this long saga: IETF regn of TSCII?

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  • Kalyanasundaram K
    Dear Friends: It has been a month since Manivannan posted his latest version of the Draft TSCII registration specs with tamil names for the characters. Dr.
    Message 1 of 33 , Dec 3, 2006
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      Dear Friends:

      It has been a month since Manivannan posted his latest version of the
      Draft TSCII registration specs with tamil names for the characters.
      Dr. Naga Ganesan posted his reservations on some of the names proposed.

      Till date there has not been any comments or response from the original
      list of persons who volunteered to be co-signatories of the proposal for
      filing with IETF.

      As far as I am concerned, I prefer to see TSCII formally registered
      with IETF
      even if the content of the specifications does not meet the approval
      of everyone. We went through an open list discussion to reach where we are
      now. Some do not believe in compromises to move things on the ground.
      IMHO, advancing things on the ground is preferrable than a stalmate.
      IETF registration does have an option to provide revisions/addenda to the
      earlier filed versions.

      I am willing to go along with what Mani has submitted, as long as the
      list includes the commonly used English names as indicated. IMHO, this is
      a must for non-Tamil software developers to work comfortably with the
      specs and also the specs to be in form to see its relationship to
      other docs
      such as TSCII-Unicode mapping table already online at Unicode website.

      Can I repeat my request again to this group to post their position
      urgently?
      Silence can be interpreted by people in many different ways and not a
      clear stand.

      anbudan
      Kalyan
    • Muthu Nedumaran
      Dear Kalyan, I can do this. 1. Can you please email me the source file so that I can edit the text? (Mac format documents are fine too). 2. Can someone please
      Message 33 of 33 , Dec 28, 2006
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        Dear Kalyan,

        I can do this.

        1. Can you please email me the source file so that I can edit the text?
        (Mac format documents are fine too).

        2. Can someone please post the *original* list of signatories the list
        decided upon? I don't have the complete access to the archives with me at
        this time.

        anbudan,

        ~ MUTHU



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "K Kalyanasundaram" <kalyan.geo@...>
        To: <tscii@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 4:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [tscii] Re: Can we have a conclusion to this long saga: IETF
        regn of TSCII?


        > Dear Ravi and other signatories for the IETF registration:
        >
        > Since this is a team effort, can one of you please review carefully
        > the last draft I posted (v. 7) and post an updated version with
        > names of signatories included, one that we can file with IETF ASAP?
        >
        > anbudan,
        > Kalyan
        >
        > --- Ravi K <ravi@...> wrote:
        >
        >> At 05:24 PM 12/26/2006, K Kalyanasundaram wrote:
        >>
        >> >Dear Muthu and Ravi Paul:
        >> >
        >> >I am a bit surprised to see your remarks which may be termed as
        >> >virulent.
        >>
        >> Dear Kalyan
        >>
        >> It was meant to be virulent.
        >>
        >> > > Since several persons who volunteered earlier to be signatory
        >> > > to the proposal have not posted anything during the past 3
        >> months,
        >> > > we will go ahead with those who responded recently.
        >>
        >> This clearly implies that those who had not posted are not
        >> interested. Check my repeated posts before October 1st to set a
        >> deadline for registration which were completely ignored. These
        >> matters should have been decided much earlier so that this situation
        >> would not arise now. Now at the last minute to make such post is of
        >> course unfair.
        >>
        >> >Hence I propose that we have following persons included as signatory
        >> to
        >> > > the present submission to IETF: K. Kalyanasundaram
        >> (Switzerland),
        >> > > Mani Manivannan (USA), Kumar Mallikarjunan (USA) and R.
        >> Kalaimani
        >> > > (Singapore). If anyone else is interested, please indicate so
        >> here.
        >>
        >> And on top of it to display a list of names of those who you deem to
        >> be interested in this matter aggravates the situation.
        >>
        >> >There is no need to make a big issue on each and every suggestion
        >> made.
        >> >My list was not exclusive. I did add a disclaimer "If anyone else is
        >> >interested, please indicate so here".
        >>
        >> This is a big issue. Your disclaimer is irrelevant here. It still
        >> assumes the others are not as interested!
        >>
        >> Anyway as Muthu said it is unnecessary to dredge the past further.
        >> You, Muthu and I were ready to sign one and half years ago for the
        >> initial proposal. I did not post during these 3 months were because
        >> my posts were irrelevant to the discussion. I am only interested in
        >> the fast registration of this proposal.
        >>
        >> Therefore, please include my name in the list of signatories.
        >>
        >> Thank you.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> >With regard to Muthu's remark "is this a proposal or a decision", I
        >> can
        >> >only say
        >> >that it is time for all of us to DECIDE. The last draft I posted IS
        >> A
        >> >PROPOSAL
        >> >THAT NEEDS TO BE EXPLICITLY ENDORSED BY ALL SIGNATORIES.
        >> >
        >> >This thread was started in April 2005 and it is time to round it up.
        >> >
        >> >Since the last post of Mani in Oct '06, only Dr. Ganesan posted with
        >> >some vairants to the names proposed by Mani. There has not been any
        >> >other
        >> >comments. Silence from the signatories during the crucial round up
        >> >stage is difficult to interpret. Signatores must be active during
        >> the
        >> >rounding up.
        >> >
        >> >I stated earlier my preferences. I would like to retain the English
        >> >version
        >> >of these names (as they are used in other charset specs) along with
        >> >Tamil-centric names so that non-Tamil software professionals can
        >> >understand
        >> >and use the specs documents meaningfully. Others can speak up as
        >> well.
        >> >
        >> >I do not want to exclude anyone from the signatories list. As a team
        >> >effort,
        >> >all those who were involved in the spec. registration exercise can
        >> be
        >> >there
        >> >as signatories in the final version, even if each does not agree
        >> >entirely to
        >> >the content of specs. I should have been more vigilent. My apologies
        >> f
        >> >or the omissions.
        >> >
        >> >Crucial part of the exercise is defending the TSCII proposal before
        >> the
        >> >IETF
        >> >reviewers group. Hence after we file the proposal with IETF, all
        >> >signatories
        >> >are expected to follow closely the discussions in the IETF vetting
        >> list
        >> >and be
        >> >prepared to answer any questions that reviewers might have.
        >> >
        >> >Instead of me putting up a controversial list, I request the
        >> following
        >> >persons
        >> >who took part in these discussions (if they have not posted
        >> recently)
        >> >to post if it is OK for inclusion of their names in the signatories
        >> >list. This
        >> >list is posted as "non-exclusive" with the standard disclaimer.
        >> >
        >> >R. Kalaimani (Singapore)
        >> >K. Kalyanasundaram (Switzerland)
        >> >S. Kavi Arasan (USA)
        >> >Kumar Mallikarjunan (USA)
        >> >I. Maraimalai (India)
        >> >Mani Manivannan (USA)
        >> >S. Muguntharaj (India)
        >> >Muthu Nedumaran (Malaysia)
        >> >Ravindran K. Paul (Malaysia)
        >> >S. Ramakrishnan (iraamki) (India)
        >> >D. Sivaraj (India)
        >> >S. Srivas (India)
        >> >... .... ...
        >> >
        >> >anbudan
        >> >Kalyan
        >> >
        >> >PS: Iraamaki's revisions are appropriate and we shall include them.
        >> >
        >> >--- Ravi K <<mailto:ravi%40thunaivan.com>ravi@...> wrote:
        >> >
        >> > > At 09:45 AM 12/26/2006, Muthu Nedumaran wrote:
        >> > >
        >> > > >Dear Kalyan,
        >> > > >
        >> > > > > Since several persons who volunteered earlier to be signatory
        >> > > > > to the proposal have not posted anything during the past 3
        >> > > months,
        >> > > > > we will go ahead with those who responded recently.
        >> > >
        >> > > I am very disappointed in your statement. Just because I do not
        >> post
        >> > > does not mean it does not matter to me.
        >> > >
        >> > > I have not been active posting for the last few months, because
        >> as
        >> > > far as I am concerned most of the matters discussed were not
        >> relecant
        >> > >
        >> > > to me. This process has been hijacked several times with
        >> unreasonable
        >> > >
        >> > > delays in the decision making process over the past 2 years. To
        >> > > debate on the merits of naming are beyond my scope of expertise
        >> and
        >> > > therefore I have refrained from doing so. I was already ready to
        >> sign
        >> > >
        >> > > one and half years ago, before we were forced to take this
        >> > > ridiculously long sabbatical.
        >> > >
        >> > > Make up your mind. If you want my support I am willing to give
        >> it. If
        >> > >
        >> > > you are not interested, just say so.
        >> > >
        >> > > Don't make irresponsible public statements without checking your
        >> > > facts first!
        >> > >
        >> > > Regards,
        >> > >
        >> > > Ravindran K. Paul
        >> > > <http://www.thunaivan.com>http://www.thunaivan.com
        >> > >
        >> > > >Is this a proposal or a decision? I'm ok to be dropped as a
        >> > > signatory.
        >> > > >
        >> > > >However, I'd like to make it clear that I've said what I need to
        >> say
        >> > > earlier
        >> > > >in the discussions. The last few months were for those to had
        >> > > deliverables
        >> > > >to deliver and for others to express their views on the proposal
        >> -
        >> > > which is
        >> > > >what has been happening.
        >> > > >
        >> > > >I am not qualified to comment on the names - however, with an
        >> > > endorsement
        >> > > >from people like prof Maraimalai, I'm confident that we have the
        >> > > correct
        >> > > >names in place.
        >> > > >
        >> > > >anbudan,
        >> > > >
        >> > > >~ MUTHU
        >> > > >
        >> > > >----- Original Message -----
        >> > > >From: "Kalyanasundaram K"
        >> > >
        >> ><<mailto:kalyan.geo%40yahoo.com><mailto:kalyan.geo%40yahoo.com>ka
        > === message truncated ===
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