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Please eliminate Granthe characters

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  • ilakkuvanar maraimalai
    anbumikka manivannan avarkalukku, vanakkam. Tamil character name proposal done by you is very fine and logical. My sincere thanks to you and Thiru.Ramki who
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      anbumikka manivannan avarkalukku,
      vanakkam.

      Tamil character name proposal done by you is very fine and logical.
      My sincere thanks to you and Thiru.Ramki who had assisted you in this task.

      Please don't mistake me if I disagree with you in one point.
      Why you have included the eleven Grantha letters?

      When you describe it as Tamil character how the alien characters have found inclusion in this nedungkanakku?

      These characters tried their level best to enter in our nedungkanakku in the name of religion but they miserably failed.

      Thanks to Alwars,Nayanmars,Kampan,Villiputturar,Umaruppulavar,Viramaamunivar and other Scholar-Saints who nativised the alien sounds and composed poems in chaste Tamil.

      Now under the garb of science these characters try to enter the primary classical language of the world,our Tamil.

      Please don't allow them and please eliminate these eleven grantha characters from this proposal.
      anbudan,
      maraimalai ilakkuvanar


      "Mani M. Manivannan" <mani_m_manivannan@...> wrote:
      Team,

      Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal. I am uploading
      the supporting documents in http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%20Names/

      I will post a separate document justifying the names in the proposal citing
      the documents available.

      I am thankful to all the Tamil scholars, Tamil Virtual University for their
      input and their encouragement.

      Thanks to Ramaki for his invaluable contribution to this final version and
      for his scholarly references and logical arguments.

      If there are any typos or errors in this, I take responsibility.

      -Mani M. Manivannan

      Tamil Character Name Proposal
      Revision October 31, 2006
      -------------------------------------------

      80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
      = Tamil digit zero
      81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
      = Tamil digit one
      82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
      = Tamil letter sri
      83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
      = Tamil letter ja
      84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
      = Tamil letter ssa
      85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
      = Tamil letter sa
      86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
      = Tamil letter ha
      87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
      = Tamil letter ksha
      88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
      = Tamil letter j
      89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
      = Tamil letter ss
      8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
      = Tamil letter s
      8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
      = Tamil letter h
      8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
      = Tamil letter ksh
      8D TAMIL DIGIT IRANNNTU
      = Tamil digit two
      8E TAMIL DIGIT MUUNNRRU
      = Tamil digit three
      8F TAMIL DIGIT NAANNKU
      = Tamil digit four
      90 TAMIL DIGIT AINTHU
      = Tamil digit five
      91 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
      92 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
      93 LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
      94 RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
      95 TAMIL DIGIT AARRU
      = Tamil digit six
      96 TAMIL DIGIT EEZHU
      = Tamil digit seven
      97 TAMIL DIGIT ETTU
      = Tamil digit eight
      98 TAMIL DIGIT ONPATHU
      = Tamil digit nine
      99 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter ngu
      9A TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter nju
      9B TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter nguu
      9C TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter njuu
      9D TAMIL NUMBER PATHTHU
      = Tamil number ten
      9E TAMIL NUMBER NUURRU
      = Tamil number one hundred
      9F TAMIL NUMBER AAYIRAM
      = Tamil number one thousand
      A0 <NOT ASSIGNED>
      A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
      = Tamil vowel sign aa
      A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
      = Tamil vowel sign i
      A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
      = Tamil vowel sign ii
      A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
      = Tamil vowel sign u
      A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-KONNNTAI
      = Tamil vowel sign uu
      A6 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOMPU
      = Tamil vowel sign e
      A7 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-K-KOMPU
      = Tamil vowel sign ee
      A8 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-C-CUZHI
      = Tamil vowel sign ai
      A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN
      AA TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CIRRAKU
      = Tamil au length mark
      AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
      = Tamil letter a
      AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
      = Tamil letter aa
      AD TAMIL LETTER IKARAM (USAGE IN SLOT DEPRECATED)
      = Tamil letter i (usage in slot deprecated)
      AE TAMIL LETTER IIKAARAM
      = Tamil letter ii
      AF TAMIL LETTER UKARAM
      = Tamil letter u
      B0 TAMIL LETTER UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter uu
      B1 TAMIL LETTER EKARAM
      = Tamil letter e
      B2 TAMIL LETTER EEKAARAM
      = Tamil letter ee
      B3 TAMIL LETTER AIKAARAM
      = Tamil letter ai
      B4 TAMIL LETTER OKARAM
      = Tamil letter o
      B5 TAMIL LETTER OOKAARAM
      = Tamil letter oo
      B6 TAMIL LETTER AUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter au
      B7 TAMIL AAYTHAM LETTER AKHENAM or AKHAAN
      = Tamil letter aaytham
      B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter ka
      B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter nga
      BA TAMIL LETTER CAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter ca
      BB TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter nja
      BC TAMIL LETTER TAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter tta
      BD TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter nnna
      BE TAMIL LETTER THAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter ta
      BF TAMIL LETTER NAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter na
      C0 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter pa
      C1 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter ma
      C2 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter ya
      C3 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter ra
      C4 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter la
      C5 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter va
      C6 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter llla
      C7 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter lla
      C8 TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter rra
      C9 TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA AKARAM
      = Tamil letter nna
      CA TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IKARAM
      = Tamil letter tti
      CB TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IIKAARAM
      = Tamil letter ttii
      CC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter ku
      CD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter cu
      CE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter ttu
      CF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter nnnu
      D0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter tu
      D1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter nu
      D2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter pu
      D3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter mu
      D4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter yu
      D5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter ru
      D6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter lu
      D7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter vu
      D8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter lllu
      D9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter llu
      DA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter rru
      DB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UKARAM
      = Tamil letter nnu
      DC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter kuu
      DD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter cuu
      DE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter ttuu
      DF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter nnnuu
      E0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter tuu
      E1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter nuu
      E2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter puu
      E3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter muu
      E4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter yuu
      E5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter ruu
      E6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter luu
      E7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter vuu
      E8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter llluu
      E9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter lluu
      EA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter rruu
      EB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UUKAARAM
      = Tamil letter nnuu
      EC TAMIL LETTER KAKARAM
      = Tamil letter k
      ED TAMIL LETTER NGAKARAM
      = Tamil letter ng
      EE TAMIL LETTER CAKARAM
      = Tamil letter c
      EF TAMIL LETTER NJAKARAM
      = Tamil letter nj
      F0 TAMIL LETTER TAKARAM
      = Tamil letter tt
      F1 TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARAM
      = Tamil letter nnn
      F2 TAMIL LETTER THAKARAM
      = Tamil letter t
      F3 TAMIL LETTER NAKARAM
      = Tamil letter n
      F4 TAMIL LETTER PAKARAM
      = Tamil letter p
      F5 TAMIL LETTER MAKARAM
      = Tamil letter m
      F6 TAMIL LETTER YAKARAM
      = Tamil letter y
      F7 TAMIL LETTER RAKARAM
      = Tamil letter r
      F8 TAMIL LETTER LAKARAM
      = Tamil letter l
      F9 TAMIL LETTER VAKARAM
      = Tamil letter v
      FA TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARAM
      = Tamil letter LLL
      FB TAMIL LETTER LLAKARAM
      = Tamil letter ll
      FC TAMIL LETTER RRAKARAM
      = Tamil letter rr
      FD TAMIL LETTER NNAKARAM
      = Tamil letter nn
      FE TAMIL VOWEL IKARAM
      FF <NOT ASSIGNED>






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    • K Kalyanasundaram
      Dear Prof. Maraimalai: The object of the present exercise is NOT to re-open up the content of the entire TSCII encoding chart for possible revision. TSCII
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Prof. Maraimalai:

        The object of the present exercise is NOT to re-open up the content of
        the
        entire TSCII encoding chart for possible revision. TSCII encoding has
        been
        worked out in late nineties through a open, net-based exercise lasting
        several
        months.

        Many at that time expressed viewed similat to that of yours. There are
        many,
        particularly outside India who continue to use grantha letters as part
        of the
        Tamil alphabet repertoire. Majority concurred on the view that the
        encoding
        chart should be to serve entire Tamil Diaspora dispersed in all four
        corners of
        the world. Prof. George Hart was one of the prominent persons who felt
        that grantha characters should be part of the Tamil encoding chart.
        Archives
        of TSCII encoding discussions are available at the INFITT website. What
        was put at the end in version 1.6 was the majority view of those who
        cared to
        participate in these discussions.

        In a talk that I heard in one of the Internet Conferences in Stockholm
        few years back, Chair of IETF emphasised that any encoding proposed
        should give main
        importance to the needs, preferences of the people. Else people will
        simply
        discard using the encoding and resort to alternate routes that serve
        their
        purpose.

        It is always upto the end user to use or not to use grantha characters
        when
        they write a Tamil text. What is desirable in this context is
        encouragement /lobby
        more and more people to write Tamil without using the grantha
        characters,
        that over a period of time their presence in any encoding chart
        becomes
        irrelevant.

        anbudan
        Kalyan


        --- ilakkuvanar maraimalai <maraimalai@...> wrote:

        > anbumikka manivannan avarkalukku,
        > vanakkam.
        >
        > Tamil character name proposal done by you is very fine and
        logical. My
        > sincere thanks to you and Thiru.Ramki who had assisted you in this
        task.
        >
        > Please don't mistake me if I disagree with you in one point.
        > Why you have included the eleven Grantha letters?
        >
        > When you describe it as Tamil character how the alien characters
        > have found inclusion in this nedungkanakku?
        >
        > These characters tried their level best to enter in our
        > nedungkanakku in the name of religion but they miserably failed.
        >
        >
        > Thanks to
        > Alwars,Nayanmars,Kampan,Villiputturar,Umaruppulavar,Viramaamunivar
        > and other Scholar-Saints who nativised the alien sounds and composed
        > poems in chaste Tamil.
        >
        > Now under the garb of science these characters try to enter the
        > primary classical language of the world,our Tamil.
        >
        > Please don't allow them and please eliminate these eleven grantha
        > characters from this proposal.
        > anbudan,
        > maraimalai ilakkuvanar
        >
        >
        > "Mani M. Manivannan" <mani_m_manivannan@...> wrote:
        > Team,
        >
        > Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal. I am
        > uploading
        > the supporting documents in
        > http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%20Names/
        >
        > I will post a separate document justifying the names in the proposal
        > citing
        > the documents available.
        >
        > I am thankful to all the Tamil scholars, Tamil Virtual University for
        > their
        > input and their encouragement.
        >
        > Thanks to Ramaki for his invaluable contribution to this final
        > version and
        > for his scholarly references and logical arguments.
        >
        > If there are any typos or errors in this, I take responsibility.
        >
        > -Mani M. Manivannan
        >
        > Tamil Character Name Proposal
        > Revision October 31, 2006
        > -------------------------------------------
        >
        > 80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
        > = Tamil digit zero
        > 81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
        > = Tamil digit one
        > 82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
        > = Tamil letter sri
        > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
        > = Tamil letter ja
        > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
        > = Tamil letter ssa
        > 85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
        > = Tamil letter sa
        > 86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
        > = Tamil letter ha
        > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
        > = Tamil letter ksha
        > 88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
        > = Tamil letter j
        > 89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
        > = Tamil letter ss
        > 8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
        > = Tamil letter s
        > 8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
        > = Tamil letter h
        > 8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
        > = Tamil letter ksh
        > 8D TAMIL DIGIT IRANNNTU
        > = Tamil digit two
        > 8E TAMIL DIGIT MUUNNRRU
        > = Tamil digit three
        > 8F TAMIL DIGIT NAANNKU
        > = Tamil digit four
        > 90 TAMIL DIGIT AINTHU
        > = Tamil digit five
        > 91 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
        > 92 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
        > 93 LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
        > 94 RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
        > 95 TAMIL DIGIT AARRU
        > = Tamil digit six
        > 96 TAMIL DIGIT EEZHU
        > = Tamil digit seven
        > 97 TAMIL DIGIT ETTU
        > = Tamil digit eight
        > 98 TAMIL DIGIT ONPATHU
        > = Tamil digit nine
        > 99 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UKARAM
        > = Tamil letter ngu
        > 9A TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UKARAM
        > = Tamil letter nju
        > 9B TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UUKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter nguu
        > 9C TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UUKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter njuu
        > 9D TAMIL NUMBER PATHTHU
        > = Tamil number ten
        > 9E TAMIL NUMBER NUURRU
        > = Tamil number one hundred
        > 9F TAMIL NUMBER AAYIRAM
        > = Tamil number one thousand
        > A0 <NOT ASSIGNED>
        > A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
        > = Tamil vowel sign aa
        > A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
        > = Tamil vowel sign i
        > A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
        > = Tamil vowel sign ii
        > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
        > = Tamil vowel sign u
        > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-KONNNTAI
        > = Tamil vowel sign uu
        > A6 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOMPU
        > = Tamil vowel sign e
        > A7 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-K-KOMPU
        > = Tamil vowel sign ee
        > A8 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-C-CUZHI
        > = Tamil vowel sign ai
        > A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN
        > AA TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CIRRAKU
        > = Tamil au length mark
        > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter a
        > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter aa
        > AD TAMIL LETTER IKARAM (USAGE IN SLOT DEPRECATED)
        > = Tamil letter i (usage in slot deprecated)
        > AE TAMIL LETTER IIKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter ii
        > AF TAMIL LETTER UKARAM
        > = Tamil letter u
        > B0 TAMIL LETTER UUKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter uu
        > B1 TAMIL LETTER EKARAM
        > = Tamil letter e
        > B2 TAMIL LETTER EEKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter ee
        > B3 TAMIL LETTER AIKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter ai
        > B4 TAMIL LETTER OKARAM
        > = Tamil letter o
        > B5 TAMIL LETTER OOKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter oo
        > B6 TAMIL LETTER AUKAARAM
        > = Tamil letter au
        > B7 TAMIL AAYTHAM LETTER AKHENAM or AKHAAN
        > = Tamil letter aaytham
        > B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter ka
        > B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter nga
        > BA TAMIL LETTER CAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter ca
        > BB TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter nja
        > BC TAMIL LETTER TAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter tta
        > BD TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter nnna
        > BE TAMIL LETTER THAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter ta
        > BF TAMIL LETTER NAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter na
        > C0 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter pa
        > C1 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter ma
        > C2 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter ya
        > C3 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter ra
        > C4 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter la
        > C5 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter va
        > C6 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter llla
        > C7 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter lla
        > C8 TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA AKARAM
        > = Tamil letter rra
        > C9 TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA AKARAM
        >
        === message truncated ===
      • Venkatram Shrinivas.
        Dear and respected Thiru Kalyanasundaram, I am filled with not only gratitude but also admiration for the clarity, exemplary composure and highly convincing
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear and respected Thiru Kalyanasundaram,

          I am filled with not only gratitude but also admiration for the clarity, exemplary composure and highly convincing exposition substantiating the reasons for the inclusion of “grantha” letters in encoding Tamil alphabets.

          I seek permission to take this opportunity to express my “lay man” views. I know nothing about encoding technology. But I am a born Tamil lover. There is a vast difference between a Tamil lover and a bigoted Tamil fanatic. Tamil, which is the only language that told the world “All are our places and all, our neighbours” (Yadum UrE yAvarum kELir) should freely borrow from other languages, even when it necessitates including some letters like the grantha ones. That is how English has become the “lingua franca” of the world.

          Our own poet and one of the world’s greatest, incomparable and immortal Thiruvalluvar begins his Kural with
          “agara muthlelezhuththellaam Athi bagavan muthaRRe uLathu’ (please pardon me for errors if any in this ‘off-the-cuff’ transliteration). Does it not contain ‘vadamozhi’ ?

          Sorry for the intrusion
          Thank You and God Bless You.
          Longlive Tamil! Longlive TSCII !

          V.Shrinivas

          K Kalyanasundaram <kalyan.geo@...> wrote:
          Dear Prof. Maraimalai:

          The object of the present exercise is NOT to re-open up the content of
          the
          entire TSCII encoding chart for possible revision. TSCII encoding has
          been
          worked out in late nineties through a open, net-based exercise lasting
          several
          months.

          Many at that time expressed viewed similat to that of yours. There are
          many,
          particularly outside India who continue to use grantha letters as part
          of the
          Tamil alphabet repertoire. Majority concurred on the view that the
          encoding
          chart should be to serve entire Tamil Diaspora dispersed in all four
          corners of
          the world. Prof. George Hart was one of the prominent persons who felt
          that grantha characters should be part of the Tamil encoding chart.
          Archives
          of TSCII encoding discussions are available at the INFITT website. What
          was put at the end in version 1.6 was the majority view of those who
          cared to
          participate in these discussions.

          In a talk that I heard in one of the Internet Conferences in Stockholm
          few years back, Chair of IETF emphasised that any encoding proposed
          should give main
          importance to the needs, preferences of the people. Else people will
          simply
          discard using the encoding and resort to alternate routes that serve
          their
          purpose.

          It is always upto the end user to use or not to use grantha characters
          when
          they write a Tamil text. What is desirable in this context is
          encouragement /lobby
          more and more people to write Tamil without using the grantha
          characters,
          that over a period of time their presence in any encoding chart
          becomes
          irrelevant.

          anbudan
          Kalyan

          --- ilakkuvanar maraimalai <maraimalai@...> wrote:

          > anbumikka manivannan avarkalukku,
          > vanakkam.
          >
          > Tamil character name proposal done by you is very fine and
          logical. My
          > sincere thanks to you and Thiru.Ramki who had assisted you in this
          task.
          >
          > Please don't mistake me if I disagree with you in one point.
          > Why you have included the eleven Grantha letters?
          >
          > When you describe it as Tamil character how the alien characters
          > have found inclusion in this nedungkanakku?
          >
          > These characters tried their level best to enter in our
          > nedungkanakku in the name of religion but they miserably failed.
          >
          >
          > Thanks to
          > Alwars,Nayanmars,Kampan,Villiputturar,Umaruppulavar,Viramaamunivar
          > and other Scholar-Saints who nativised the alien sounds and composed
          > poems in chaste Tamil.
          >
          > Now under the garb of science these characters try to enter the
          > primary classical language of the world,our Tamil.
          >
          > Please don't allow them and please eliminate these eleven grantha
          > characters from this proposal.
          > anbudan,
          > maraimalai ilakkuvanar
          >
          >
          > "Mani M. Manivannan" <mani_m_manivannan@...> wrote:
          > Team,
          >
          > Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal. I am
          > uploading
          > the supporting documents in
          > http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%20Names/
          >
          > I will post a separate document justifying the names in the proposal
          > citing
          > the documents available.
          >
          > I am thankful to all the Tamil scholars, Tamil Virtual University for
          > their
          > input and their encouragement.
          >
          > Thanks to Ramaki for his invaluable contribution to this final
          > version and
          > for his scholarly references and logical arguments.
          >
          > If there are any typos or errors in this, I take responsibility.
          >
          > -Mani M. Manivannan
          >
          > Tamil Character Name Proposal
          > Revision October 31, 2006
          > -------------------------------------------
          >
          > 80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
          > = Tamil digit zero
          > 81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
          > = Tamil digit one
          > 82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
          > = Tamil letter sri
          > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
          > = Tamil letter ja
          > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
          > = Tamil letter ssa
          > 85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
          > = Tamil letter sa
          > 86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
          > = Tamil letter ha
          > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
          > = Tamil letter ksha
          > 88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
          > = Tamil letter j
          > 89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
          > = Tamil letter ss
          > 8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
          > = Tamil letter s
          > 8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
          > = Tamil letter h
          > 8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
          > = Tamil letter ksh
          > 8D TAMIL DIGIT IRANNNTU
          > = Tamil digit two
          > 8E TAMIL DIGIT MUUNNRRU
          > = Tamil digit three
          > 8F TAMIL DIGIT NAANNKU
          > = Tamil digit four
          > 90 TAMIL DIGIT AINTHU
          > = Tamil digit five
          > 91 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
          > 92 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
          > 93 LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
          > 94 RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
          > 95 TAMIL DIGIT AARRU
          > = Tamil digit six
          > 96 TAMIL DIGIT EEZHU
          > = Tamil digit seven
          > 97 TAMIL DIGIT ETTU
          > = Tamil digit eight
          > 98 TAMIL DIGIT ONPATHU
          > = Tamil digit nine
          > 99 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UKARAM
          > = Tamil letter ngu
          > 9A TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UKARAM
          > = Tamil letter nju
          > 9B TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UUKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter nguu
          > 9C TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UUKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter njuu
          > 9D TAMIL NUMBER PATHTHU
          > = Tamil number ten
          > 9E TAMIL NUMBER NUURRU
          > = Tamil number one hundred
          > 9F TAMIL NUMBER AAYIRAM
          > = Tamil number one thousand
          > A0 <NOT ASSIGNED>
          > A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
          > = Tamil vowel sign aa
          > A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
          > = Tamil vowel sign i
          > A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
          > = Tamil vowel sign ii
          > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
          > = Tamil vowel sign u
          > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-KONNNTAI
          > = Tamil vowel sign uu
          > A6 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOMPU
          > = Tamil vowel sign e
          > A7 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-K-KOMPU
          > = Tamil vowel sign ee
          > A8 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-C-CUZHI
          > = Tamil vowel sign ai
          > A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN
          > AA TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CIRRAKU
          > = Tamil au length mark
          > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter a
          > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter aa
          > AD TAMIL LETTER IKARAM (USAGE IN SLOT DEPRECATED)
          > = Tamil letter i (usage in slot deprecated)
          > AE TAMIL LETTER IIKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter ii
          > AF TAMIL LETTER UKARAM
          > = Tamil letter u
          > B0 TAMIL LETTER UUKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter uu
          > B1 TAMIL LETTER EKARAM
          > = Tamil letter e
          > B2 TAMIL LETTER EEKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter ee
          > B3 TAMIL LETTER AIKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter ai
          > B4 TAMIL LETTER OKARAM
          > = Tamil letter o
          > B5 TAMIL LETTER OOKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter oo
          > B6 TAMIL LETTER AUKAARAM
          > = Tamil letter au
          > B7 TAMIL AAYTHAM LETTER AKHENAM or AKHAAN
          > = Tamil letter aaytham
          > B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter ka
          > B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter nga
          > BA TAMIL LETTER CAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter ca
          > BB TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter nja
          > BC TAMIL LETTER TAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter tta
          > BD TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter nnna
          > BE TAMIL LETTER THAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter ta
          > BF TAMIL LETTER NAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter na
          > C0 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter pa
          > C1 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter ma
          > C2 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter ya
          > C3 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter ra
          > C4 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter la
          > C5 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter va
          > C6 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter llla
          > C7 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter lla
          > C8 TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA AKARAM
          > = Tamil letter rra
          > C9 TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA AKARAM
          >
          === message truncated ===






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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mallikarjunan, Kumar
          Dear Prof. Maraimalai: In addition to the points presented by Kalyan, the main issue of the charcter encoding is to provide support for the existing literature
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Prof. Maraimalai:



            In addition to the points presented by Kalyan, the main issue of the
            charcter encoding is to provide support for the existing literature and
            documents and to preserve them in its original form. I am even a
            proponent of adding the special 's' used for shiva in the grantha
            character list. I am not suggesting that we promote the use of these
            but when trying to present literature developed earlier, we cannot
            substitute to them for equivalent or other sounds. An encoding should
            (like any software) have backward compatibility without which people
            will not embrace the new frontiers. In that regard, some of the early
            font developers (including Kalyan) even had the old style lai, Raa, Naa,
            etc. As the meaning and representation of that has not compromised,
            during TSCII development they were not included. There were even
            proposals from folks Prof. Selva to add additional characters to cover
            some soft sounds that we do not have in Tamil (like ba and fa).



            It is in the hands of Tamil scholars and leaders to promote pure Tamil
            and use them regularly in magazines, novels, text books etc. and use
            Tamil centric words during radio, television programs and only by that
            we should be able to go for pure Tamil. Dropping that from the encoding
            will not solve the problem but as Kalyan pointed out will set us back 50
            years in the IT development.



            Kumar Mallikarjunan, Ph.D.
            Associate Professor
            Biological Systems Engineering Department
            312 Seitz Hall, Virginia Tech
            Blacksburg, VA 24060
            Ph: 540-231-7937 Fax: 540-231-3199
            email: kumar@...

            ________________________________

            From: tscii@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tscii@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            K Kalyanasundaram
            Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 5:38 AM
            To: tscii@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tscii] Please eliminate Granthe characters



            Dear Prof. Maraimalai:

            The object of the present exercise is NOT to re-open up the content of
            the
            entire TSCII encoding chart for possible revision. TSCII encoding has
            been
            worked out in late nineties through a open, net-based exercise lasting
            several
            months.

            Many at that time expressed viewed similat to that of yours. There are
            many,
            particularly outside India who continue to use grantha letters as part
            of the
            Tamil alphabet repertoire. Majority concurred on the view that the
            encoding
            chart should be to serve entire Tamil Diaspora dispersed in all four
            corners of
            the world. Prof. George Hart was one of the prominent persons who felt
            that grantha characters should be part of the Tamil encoding chart.
            Archives
            of TSCII encoding discussions are available at the INFITT website. What
            was put at the end in version 1.6 was the majority view of those who
            cared to
            participate in these discussions.

            In a talk that I heard in one of the Internet Conferences in Stockholm
            few years back, Chair of IETF emphasised that any encoding proposed
            should give main
            importance to the needs, preferences of the people. Else people will
            simply
            discard using the encoding and resort to alternate routes that serve
            their
            purpose.

            It is always upto the end user to use or not to use grantha characters
            when
            they write a Tamil text. What is desirable in this context is
            encouragement /lobby
            more and more people to write Tamil without using the grantha
            characters,
            that over a period of time their presence in any encoding chart
            becomes
            irrelevant.

            anbudan
            Kalyan

            --- ilakkuvanar maraimalai <maraimalai@...
            <mailto:maraimalai%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

            > anbumikka manivannan avarkalukku,
            > vanakkam.
            >
            > Tamil character name proposal done by you is very fine and
            logical. My
            > sincere thanks to you and Thiru.Ramki who had assisted you in this
            task.
            >
            > Please don't mistake me if I disagree with you in one point.
            > Why you have included the eleven Grantha letters?
            >
            > When you describe it as Tamil character how the alien characters
            > have found inclusion in this nedungkanakku?
            >
            > These characters tried their level best to enter in our
            > nedungkanakku in the name of religion but they miserably failed.
            >
            >
            > Thanks to
            > Alwars,Nayanmars,Kampan,Villiputturar,Umaruppulavar,Viramaamunivar
            > and other Scholar-Saints who nativised the alien sounds and composed
            > poems in chaste Tamil.
            >
            > Now under the garb of science these characters try to enter the
            > primary classical language of the world,our Tamil.
            >
            > Please don't allow them and please eliminate these eleven grantha
            > characters from this proposal.
            > anbudan,
            > maraimalai ilakkuvanar
            >
            >
            > "Mani M. Manivannan" <mani_m_manivannan@...
            <mailto:mani_m_manivannan%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
            > Team,
            >
            > Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal. I am
            > uploading
            > the supporting documents in
            > http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%20Names/
            <http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%20Names/>
            >
            > I will post a separate document justifying the names in the proposal
            > citing
            > the documents available.
            >
            > I am thankful to all the Tamil scholars, Tamil Virtual University for
            > their
            > input and their encouragement.
            >
            > Thanks to Ramaki for his invaluable contribution to this final
            > version and
            > for his scholarly references and logical arguments.
            >
            > If there are any typos or errors in this, I take responsibility.
            >
            > -Mani M. Manivannan
            >
            > Tamil Character Name Proposal
            > Revision October 31, 2006
            > -------------------------------------------
            >
            > 80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
            > = Tamil digit zero
            > 81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
            > = Tamil digit one
            > 82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
            > = Tamil letter sri
            > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
            > = Tamil letter ja
            > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
            > = Tamil letter ssa
            > 85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
            > = Tamil letter sa
            > 86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
            > = Tamil letter ha
            > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
            > = Tamil letter ksha
            > 88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
            > = Tamil letter j
            > 89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
            > = Tamil letter ss
            > 8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
            > = Tamil letter s
            > 8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
            > = Tamil letter h
            > 8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
            > = Tamil letter ksh
            > 8D TAMIL DIGIT IRANNNTU
            > = Tamil digit two
            > 8E TAMIL DIGIT MUUNNRRU
            > = Tamil digit three
            > 8F TAMIL DIGIT NAANNKU
            > = Tamil digit four
            > 90 TAMIL DIGIT AINTHU
            > = Tamil digit five
            > 91 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
            > 92 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
            > 93 LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
            > 94 RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
            > 95 TAMIL DIGIT AARRU
            > = Tamil digit six
            > 96 TAMIL DIGIT EEZHU
            > = Tamil digit seven
            > 97 TAMIL DIGIT ETTU
            > = Tamil digit eight
            > 98 TAMIL DIGIT ONPATHU
            > = Tamil digit nine
            > 99 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UKARAM
            > = Tamil letter ngu
            > 9A TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UKARAM
            > = Tamil letter nju
            > 9B TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UUKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter nguu
            > 9C TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UUKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter njuu
            > 9D TAMIL NUMBER PATHTHU
            > = Tamil number ten
            > 9E TAMIL NUMBER NUURRU
            > = Tamil number one hundred
            > 9F TAMIL NUMBER AAYIRAM
            > = Tamil number one thousand
            > A0 <NOT ASSIGNED>
            > A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
            > = Tamil vowel sign aa
            > A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
            > = Tamil vowel sign i
            > A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
            > = Tamil vowel sign ii
            > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
            > = Tamil vowel sign u
            > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-KONNNTAI
            > = Tamil vowel sign uu
            > A6 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOMPU
            > = Tamil vowel sign e
            > A7 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-K-KOMPU
            > = Tamil vowel sign ee
            > A8 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-C-CUZHI
            > = Tamil vowel sign ai
            > A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN
            > AA TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CIRRAKU
            > = Tamil au length mark
            > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter a
            > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter aa
            > AD TAMIL LETTER IKARAM (USAGE IN SLOT DEPRECATED)
            > = Tamil letter i (usage in slot deprecated)
            > AE TAMIL LETTER IIKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter ii
            > AF TAMIL LETTER UKARAM
            > = Tamil letter u
            > B0 TAMIL LETTER UUKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter uu
            > B1 TAMIL LETTER EKARAM
            > = Tamil letter e
            > B2 TAMIL LETTER EEKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter ee
            > B3 TAMIL LETTER AIKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter ai
            > B4 TAMIL LETTER OKARAM
            > = Tamil letter o
            > B5 TAMIL LETTER OOKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter oo
            > B6 TAMIL LETTER AUKAARAM
            > = Tamil letter au
            > B7 TAMIL AAYTHAM LETTER AKHENAM or AKHAAN
            > = Tamil letter aaytham
            > B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter ka
            > B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter nga
            > BA TAMIL LETTER CAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter ca
            > BB TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter nja
            > BC TAMIL LETTER TAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter tta
            > BD TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter nnna
            > BE TAMIL LETTER THAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter ta
            > BF TAMIL LETTER NAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter na
            > C0 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter pa
            > C1 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter ma
            > C2 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter ya
            > C3 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter ra
            > C4 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter la
            > C5 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter va
            > C6 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter llla
            > C7 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter lla
            > C8 TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA AKARAM
            > = Tamil letter rra
            > C9 TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA AKARAM
            >
            === message truncated ===





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • K Kalyanasundaram
            Dear Friends: One other remark I would to like add to my earlier post on this thread. Monolingual TAM and bilingual TAB encodings introduced by Tamilnadu Govt.
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Friends:

              One other remark I would to like add to my earlier post on this thread.


              Monolingual TAM and bilingual TAB encodings introduced by Tamilnadu
              Govt. after launch of TSCII have also included the grantha characters
              in the
              code chart. So also the current TUNE/TANE 16-bit encoding being floated
              also contains the entire Grantha characters.

              anbudan
              Kalyan

              --- K Kalyanasundaram <kalyan.geo@...> wrote:

              > Dear Prof. Maraimalai:
              >
              > The object of the present exercise is NOT to re-open up the content
              of
              > the entire TSCII encoding chart for possible revision. TSCII encoding
              has
              > been worked out in late nineties through a open, net-based exercise
              > lasting several months.
              >
              > Many at that time expressed viewed similat to that of yours. There
              > are many, particularly outside India who continue to use grantha
              letters as
              > part of the Tamil alphabet repertoire. Majority concurred on the
              view that
              > the encoding chart should be to serve entire Tamil Diaspora dispersed

              > in all four corners of the world. Prof. George Hart was one of the
              prominent
              > persons who felt that grantha characters should be part of the Tamil
              encoding
              > chart. Archives of TSCII encoding discussions are available at the
              INFITT
              > website. What was put at the end in version 1.6 was the majority
              view of
              > those who cared to participate in these discussions.
              >
              <cut>
            • Mani Manivannan
              Dear Prof. Maraimalai, Thank you for your comments. Please note that the proposal clearly identifies the difference between grantha letters and Tamil letters.
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Prof. Maraimalai,

                Thank you for your comments.

                Please note that the proposal clearly identifies the difference between
                grantha letters and Tamil letters.

                > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
                > = Tamil letter ja
                > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
                > = Tamil letter a

                The proposal is mainly interested in the names in upper case. The mixed
                case names are alternate names that are in current usage in existing
                standards so that programmers can identify that the equivalent characters.


                As others have pointed out, this proposal is not to revise the existing
                TSCII encoding that already has the Tamil characters and glyphs along
                with grantha characters and glyphs. The intent was to make this usable in
                Tamil speaking lands where the people would be able to this encoding to
                create documents that contain commonly used words and names, such as the
                telephone directory, voter rolls, etc. These grantha letters are taught
                in Tamil classes and are in the names of several lakhs of ordinary
                Tamilians.

                After fierce debates in the old webmasters list where Prof. Hart, Prof.
                Schiffman along with several passionate Tamil lovers participated, we agreed
                on a compromise to include the grantha letters sha, sa, ja, ha, ksha and
                sri.

                I was discussing this proposal along with the current Tamil Unicode block
                and the proposed 16 bit Tamil encoding TANE with Prof. Hart last week before
                uploading this. He concurred with the character naming. In particular, he
                preferred cuzhi to puuchiyam. He remarked that he couldn't find where
                puuchiyam came from as he could not find any Sanskrit root for puujya that
                refers to zero.

                We also discussed the granthas and in particular the special s character
                that is referred to below and is in the current Tamil Unicode block and TANE
                proposal. He felt that the special s doesn't belong as it is never used in
                ordinary Tamil. Since there is a proposal to encode all of the grantha
                characters separately, it would be better to keep the special s there. We
                then looked at the Madras University Tamil lexicon's usage of the special
                's' and it was obvious that several of the words in that list that are in
                current usage already use Tamil ca instead of the special s ( e.g. civam,
                ciikiram). He remarked that these are likely to be used in specialized,
                manippravala religious texts. He marvelled that while Kampan in his
                Ramayanam uses hundreds of Sanskrit names but never once uses a grantha
                character. Even Raman is irAman. So Tamil language can comfortably be used
                without including any of the granthas.

                In fact, irAmaki has been arguing in the TANE list for the removal of the
                special letter s from the proposed TANE encoding and challenged the
                participants to say whether they were taught the special s in Tamil
                classes. I'd encourage you to participate in the TANE discussion list and
                offer your opinions there about the granthas and in particular the special
                letter 's'.

                As for as the TSCII encoding is concerned, the code points are already in
                usage. This proposal is only to formally register the names of the Tamil
                characters and signs in an international standard document. The Sinhalese
                have been diligent in registering the names of their characters while the
                Tamils and other Indian technocrats have overlooked this. This proposal is
                an attempt to correct such an oversight.

                Revision of the encoding is beyond the scope of current discussion.

                Regards,

                Mani M. Manivannan


                On 11/3/06, Mallikarjunan, Kumar <kumar@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Prof. Maraimalai:
                >
                > In addition to the points presented by Kalyan, the main issue of the
                > charcter encoding is to provide support for the existing literature and
                > documents and to preserve them in its original form. I am even a
                > proponent of adding the special 's' used for shiva in the grantha
                > character list.
                > ________________________________
                >
                > From: tscii@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tscii@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > K Kalyanasundaram
                > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 5:38 AM
                >
                > Dear Prof. Maraimalai:
                >
                > The object of the present exercise is NOT to re-open up the content of
                > the
                > entire TSCII encoding chart for possible revision. TSCII encoding has
                > been
                > worked out in late nineties through a open, net-based exercise lasting
                > several
                > months.
                >
                > Many at that time expressed viewed similat to that of yours. There are
                > many,
                > particularly outside India who continue to use grantha letters as part
                > of the
                > Tamil alphabet repertoire. Majority concurred on the view that the
                > encoding
                > chart should be to serve entire Tamil Diaspora dispersed in all four
                > corners of
                > the world. Prof. George Hart was one of the prominent persons who felt
                > that grantha characters should be part of the Tamil encoding chart.
                > Archives
                > of TSCII encoding discussions are available at the INFITT website. What
                > was put at the end in version 1.6 was the majority view of those who
                > cared to
                > participate in these discussions.
                >
                >
                > anbudan
                > Kalyan
                >
                > --- ilakkuvanar maraimalai <maraimalai@...
                > <mailto:maraimalai%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
                >
                > > Why you have included the eleven Grantha letters?
                > >
                > > When you describe it as Tamil character how the alien characters
                > > have found inclusion in this nedungkanakku?
                > >
                > >
                > > Please don't allow them and please eliminate these eleven grantha
                > > characters from this proposal.
                > > anbudan,
                > > maraimalai ilakkuvanar
                > >
                > >
                > > "Mani M. Manivannan" <mani_m_manivannan@...
                > <mailto:mani_m_manivannan%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
                > > Team,
                > >
                > > Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal.
                > >
                > > Tamil Character Name Proposal
                > > Revision October 31, 2006
                > > -------------------------------------------
                > >
                > > 80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
                > > = Tamil digit zero
                > > 81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
                > > = Tamil digit one
                > > 82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
                > > = Tamil letter sri
                > > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
                > > = Tamil letter ja
                > > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
                > > = Tamil letter ssa
                > > 85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
                > > = Tamil letter sa
                > > 86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
                > > = Tamil letter ha
                > > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
                > > = Tamil letter ksha
                > > 88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
                > > = Tamil letter j
                > > 89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
                > > = Tamil letter ss
                > > 8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
                > > = Tamil letter s
                > > 8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
                > > = Tamil letter h
                > > 8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
                > > = Tamil letter ksh
                >
                >
                > > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
                > > = Tamil letter a
                > > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
                > > = Tamil letter aa


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • iraamaki
                Dear List, Although it is not directly related to the proposal being discussed, let me give some info on certain words related to zero. When zero was invented
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 4, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear List,

                  Although it is not directly related to the proposal being discussed, let
                  me give some info on certain words related to zero.

                  When zero was invented (the present earliest available incontrovertible
                  evidence is 458 CE through the Jain Literature Lokavibhaga published at
                  our own Kanchipram. Still earlier evidence is yet to be traced. Although
                  zero is mentioned in paripaadal, whose age is definitely earlier than
                  458CE, the origin of the concept is not yet clear.) and used in the
                  Indian and Southeast Asian inscriptions, it had two different forms

                  1. a small circle
                  2. a dot

                  "Zero" words in Indian languages developed descibing these shapes. There
                  was a subsequent gradual development of the meaning emptiness for these
                  words, For example, the word cuzi, which is recommended here, developed
                  out of the concept cuziththal - to curve, to circle. Most of the other
                  Indian languages including Sanskrit have the word Shunya. (Sanskrit also
                  uses a number of other words with the meaning of sky, atmosphere and
                  space to denote the concept of emptiness. Tamil also does - for example
                  aNtam, veLi etc.) The widely prevalent word Shuunya has also a
                  counterpart in the Tamil word cunnam. Both cunnam and cuzi have the same
                  root cul - to go round.

                  We had preferred cuzi over cunnam just because it is of one mono asai
                  (n-eer, n-eerbu, n-rai, n-raibu) just the same as other numbers, viz.
                  onRu, iraNtu, muunRu, n-aanku, ainthu, aaRu, eezu ettu and paththu, and
                  it is easy to pronounce thus creating a flow in the consecutive
                  utttering of the numbers / digits (for example, while telling a
                  telephone number to another person)

                  In the above series of Tamil numbers, Onbathu was an exception and it
                  has a history. In fact the original sangam age word thoNdu for nine was
                  only a mono asai word.

                  The words in Tamil for zero indicating the dot concept are Paaz, puLLi,
                  puzaiyam etc. The word Paaz used in Paripaadal developed from paLLuthal
                  (to make a hole, to dig). paL>paaz.

                  Similarly puLLi = dot. puLLuthal = to make a hole. puzai also has a
                  meaning of hole. Both puLLi and puzai have the same root origin pul>puL
                  Puzai has another variant in purai = hole. puzaiyam is a development
                  with am as an ending. pudalam is a vegetable with a hole at the core. da
                  and za are usual alternates in Tamil pronouncement. The eighth nakshatra
                  Pushya (=Puusam) exhibits a shape like a long pudalangkaai; hence the
                  name puzaiyam. Usually za/La in Tamil will get altered to sha first and
                  then ja later by a certain section of Tamil people, while pronouncing.
                  The word Pushya probably developed like this, though it has a definite
                  Tamil origin.

                  In the Monier Williams dictionary, there is no proper explanation for
                  the word Pushya. The word Pujya is also not indicated in the Monier
                  Williams with the meaning of zero, while shunya is indicated. The origin
                  indicated in the Madras Tamil Lexicon for the word puuchchiyam<puujya is
                  also not attested. The ultimate development to puujyam might have
                  happened in our own southern backyard out of the concepts mentioned in
                  the previous paragraph. As a result they might not have been attested in
                  the Sanskrit etymological dictionaries. The word puujya, in all
                  probability, is a corrupted version of the original Tamil word puzaiyam.


                  It may be mentioned here that an alternate remote possibility is buujya.
                  'bhuj' is a root indicated in the VI Class of roots among the list of
                  2200 roots given in the Dha_tupa_t.ha (lit. a study of roots or verb
                  forms), reputedly by Pa_n.ini, with the meanings "to bend, to curve, to
                  be crooked" The sixth class is known as s'a-vikaran.astuda_digan.a The
                  classification of verbal bases in ten classes is based on vikaran.a, the
                  inserted conjugational affix, the conjugational sign placed between the
                  root and the terminations.

                  In Tamil, puri = to curve, cuzi. Puriyam = circle. puram = circled fort.


                  The words in Tamil for zero are:

                  Cuzi
                  Cunnam
                  Paaz
                  Puzaiyam

                  anbudan,
                  iraamaki.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: tscii@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tscii@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Mani Manivannan
                  Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:35 PM
                  To: tscii@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tscii] Please eliminate Granthe characters

                  Dear Prof. Maraimalai,

                  Thank you for your comments.

                  Please note that the proposal clearly identifies the difference between
                  grantha letters and Tamil letters.

                  > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
                  > = Tamil letter ja
                  > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
                  > = Tamil letter a

                  The proposal is mainly interested in the names in upper case. The mixed
                  case names are alternate names that are in current usage in existing
                  standards so that programmers can identify that the equivalent
                  characters.

                  As others have pointed out, this proposal is not to revise the existing
                  TSCII encoding that already has the Tamil characters and glyphs along
                  with grantha characters and glyphs. The intent was to make this usable
                  in
                  Tamil speaking lands where the people would be able to this encoding to
                  create documents that contain commonly used words and names, such as the
                  telephone directory, voter rolls, etc. These grantha letters are taught
                  in Tamil classes and are in the names of several lakhs of ordinary
                  Tamilians.

                  After fierce debates in the old webmasters list where Prof. Hart, Prof.
                  Schiffman along with several passionate Tamil lovers participated, we
                  agreed
                  on a compromise to include the grantha letters sha, sa, ja, ha, ksha and
                  sri.

                  I was discussing this proposal along with the current Tamil Unicode
                  block
                  and the proposed 16 bit Tamil encoding TANE with Prof. Hart last week
                  before
                  uploading this. He concurred with the character naming. In particular,
                  he
                  preferred cuzhi to puuchiyam. He remarked that he couldn't find where
                  puuchiyam came from as he could not find any Sanskrit root for puujya
                  that
                  refers to zero.

                  We also discussed the granthas and in particular the special s character
                  that is referred to below and is in the current Tamil Unicode block and
                  TANE
                  proposal. He felt that the special s doesn't belong as it is never used
                  in
                  ordinary Tamil. Since there is a proposal to encode all of the grantha
                  characters separately, it would be better to keep the special s there.
                  We
                  then looked at the Madras University Tamil lexicon's usage of the
                  special
                  's' and it was obvious that several of the words in that list that are
                  in
                  current usage already use Tamil ca instead of the special s ( e.g.
                  civam,
                  ciikiram). He remarked that these are likely to be used in specialized,
                  manippravala religious texts. He marvelled that while Kampan in his
                  Ramayanam uses hundreds of Sanskrit names but never once uses a grantha
                  character. Even Raman is irAman. So Tamil language can comfortably be
                  used
                  without including any of the granthas.

                  In fact, irAmaki has been arguing in the TANE list for the removal of
                  the
                  special letter s from the proposed TANE encoding and challenged the
                  participants to say whether they were taught the special s in Tamil
                  classes. I'd encourage you to participate in the TANE discussion list
                  and
                  offer your opinions there about the granthas and in particular the
                  special
                  letter 's'.

                  As for as the TSCII encoding is concerned, the code points are already
                  in
                  usage. This proposal is only to formally register the names of the
                  Tamil
                  characters and signs in an international standard document. The
                  Sinhalese
                  have been diligent in registering the names of their characters while
                  the
                  Tamils and other Indian technocrats have overlooked this. This proposal
                  is
                  an attempt to correct such an oversight.

                  Revision of the encoding is beyond the scope of current discussion.

                  Regards,

                  Mani M. Manivannan
                • Kalyanasundaram K
                  Dear Mani: I was waiting for about 2 weeks to see if there is any comments on your revised version of the draft TSCII proposal. IMHO, it is important that we
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 13, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Mani:

                    I was waiting for about 2 weeks to see if there is any comments
                    on your revised version of the draft TSCII proposal. IMHO, it is important
                    that we go ahead and file the proposal even if the content does not get
                    100% approval of everyone.

                    As far as I am concerned, proposed chart as indicated with romanized
                    equivalents given (as = tamil letter pu etc) is fine. This would help
                    non-Tamil software developers understand the specs and also link
                    with the TSCII-Unicode mapping table already online at Unicode website.

                    I was dismayed to read the comments of Ramki posted to tamil-ulagam
                    list where he took a swipe at people who ask for documentary support
                    for items that go to make an official standard. I have difficulties
                    accepting
                    claims of someone that "such and such is so basic and fundamental to the
                    language", yet they cannot cite one single printed source to support their
                    claim. For those who have been engaged in academic research (not only
                    in pure science or engg but also in humanities including anthropology,
                    history that all statements that are "not obvious" to that community needs
                    to be adequately referenced. Bibliographic citation of prior work is
                    an absolute
                    must to build things further. Anything built without solid back up of
                    sources
                    will be risky, liable to collapse one day ;-)

                    In the present case, I am ready to accept your statements that
                    distinguished
                    Tamil scholars like Prof. George Hart have given their consent for us
                    to go
                    ahead with the present list of Tamil centric names.

                    I request other members of the signatory group to this proposal to post
                    here a note on their concurrence to go ahead with the draft proposal.

                    anbudan
                    Kalyan

                    --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, "Mani M. Manivannan"
                    <mani_m_manivannan@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Team,
                    >
                    > Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal. I am
                    uploading
                    > the supporting documents in http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%20Names/
                    >
                    > I will post a separate document justifying the names in the proposal
                    citing
                    > the documents available.
                    >
                    > I am thankful to all the Tamil scholars, Tamil Virtual University
                    for their
                    > input and their encouragement.
                    >
                    > Thanks to Ramaki for his invaluable contribution to this final
                    version and
                    > for his scholarly references and logical arguments.
                    >
                    > If there are any typos or errors in this, I take responsibility.
                    >
                    > -Mani M. Manivannan
                    >
                    >
                    > Tamil Character Name Proposal
                    > Revision October 31, 2006
                    > -------------------------------------------
                    >
                    > 80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
                    > = Tamil digit zero
                    > 81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
                    > = Tamil digit one
                    > 82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
                    > = Tamil letter sri
                    > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
                    > = Tamil letter ja
                    > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
                    > = Tamil letter ssa
                    > 85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
                    > = Tamil letter sa
                    > 86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
                    > = Tamil letter ha
                    > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
                    > = Tamil letter ksha
                    > 88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
                    > = Tamil letter j
                    > 89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
                    > = Tamil letter ss
                    > 8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
                    > = Tamil letter s
                    > 8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
                    > = Tamil letter h
                    > 8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
                    > = Tamil letter ksh
                    > 8D TAMIL DIGIT IRANNNTU
                    > = Tamil digit two
                    > 8E TAMIL DIGIT MUUNNRRU
                    > = Tamil digit three
                    > 8F TAMIL DIGIT NAANNKU
                    > = Tamil digit four
                    > 90 TAMIL DIGIT AINTHU
                    > = Tamil digit five
                    > 91 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
                    > 92 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
                    > 93 LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
                    > 94 RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
                    > 95 TAMIL DIGIT AARRU
                    > = Tamil digit six
                    > 96 TAMIL DIGIT EEZHU
                    > = Tamil digit seven
                    > 97 TAMIL DIGIT ETTU
                    > = Tamil digit eight
                    > 98 TAMIL DIGIT ONPATHU
                    > = Tamil digit nine
                    > 99 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ngu
                    > 9A TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nju
                    > 9B TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nguu
                    > 9C TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter njuu
                    > 9D TAMIL NUMBER PATHTHU
                    > = Tamil number ten
                    > 9E TAMIL NUMBER NUURRU
                    > = Tamil number one hundred
                    > 9F TAMIL NUMBER AAYIRAM
                    > = Tamil number one thousand
                    > A0 <NOT ASSIGNED>
                    > A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
                    > = Tamil vowel sign aa
                    > A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
                    > = Tamil vowel sign i
                    > A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
                    > = Tamil vowel sign ii
                    > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
                    > = Tamil vowel sign u
                    > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-KONNNTAI
                    > = Tamil vowel sign uu
                    > A6 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOMPU
                    > = Tamil vowel sign e
                    > A7 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-K-KOMPU
                    > = Tamil vowel sign ee
                    > A8 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-C-CUZHI
                    > = Tamil vowel sign ai
                    > A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN
                    > AA TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CIRRAKU
                    > = Tamil au length mark
                    > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter a
                    > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter aa
                    > AD TAMIL LETTER IKARAM (USAGE IN SLOT DEPRECATED)
                    > = Tamil letter i (usage in slot deprecated)
                    > AE TAMIL LETTER IIKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ii
                    > AF TAMIL LETTER UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter u
                    > B0 TAMIL LETTER UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter uu
                    > B1 TAMIL LETTER EKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter e
                    > B2 TAMIL LETTER EEKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ee
                    > B3 TAMIL LETTER AIKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ai
                    > B4 TAMIL LETTER OKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter o
                    > B5 TAMIL LETTER OOKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter oo
                    > B6 TAMIL LETTER AUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter au
                    > B7 TAMIL AAYTHAM LETTER AKHENAM or AKHAAN
                    > = Tamil letter aaytham
                    > B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ka
                    > B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nga
                    > BA TAMIL LETTER CAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ca
                    > BB TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nja
                    > BC TAMIL LETTER TAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter tta
                    > BD TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nnna
                    > BE TAMIL LETTER THAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ta
                    > BF TAMIL LETTER NAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter na
                    > C0 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter pa
                    > C1 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ma
                    > C2 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ya
                    > C3 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ra
                    > C4 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter la
                    > C5 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter va
                    > C6 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter llla
                    > C7 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter lla
                    > C8 TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter rra
                    > C9 TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA AKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nna
                    > CA TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter tti
                    > CB TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IIKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ttii
                    > CC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ku
                    > CD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter cu
                    > CE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ttu
                    > CF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nnnu
                    > D0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter tu
                    > D1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nu
                    > D2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter pu
                    > D3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter mu
                    > D4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter yu
                    > D5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ru
                    > D6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter lu
                    > D7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter vu
                    > D8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter lllu
                    > D9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter llu
                    > DA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter rru
                    > DB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nnu
                    > DC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter kuu
                    > DD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter cuu
                    > DE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ttuu
                    > DF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nnnuu
                    > E0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter tuu
                    > E1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nuu
                    > E2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter puu
                    > E3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter muu
                    > E4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter yuu
                    > E5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ruu
                    > E6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter luu
                    > E7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter vuu
                    > E8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter llluu
                    > E9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter lluu
                    > EA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter rruu
                    > EB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UUKAARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nnuu
                    > EC TAMIL LETTER KAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter k
                    > ED TAMIL LETTER NGAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ng
                    > EE TAMIL LETTER CAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter c
                    > EF TAMIL LETTER NJAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nj
                    > F0 TAMIL LETTER TAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter tt
                    > F1 TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nnn
                    > F2 TAMIL LETTER THAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter t
                    > F3 TAMIL LETTER NAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter n
                    > F4 TAMIL LETTER PAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter p
                    > F5 TAMIL LETTER MAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter m
                    > F6 TAMIL LETTER YAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter y
                    > F7 TAMIL LETTER RAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter r
                    > F8 TAMIL LETTER LAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter l
                    > F9 TAMIL LETTER VAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter v
                    > FA TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter LLL
                    > FB TAMIL LETTER LLAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter ll
                    > FC TAMIL LETTER RRAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter rr
                    > FD TAMIL LETTER NNAKARAM
                    > = Tamil letter nn
                    > FE TAMIL VOWEL IKARAM
                    > FF <NOT ASSIGNED>
                    >
                  • iraamaki
                    Dear Dr.Kalyan, Let us not read between the lines. What I have mentioned in the Tamil-ulagam list in my article tholkaappiyamum, kuRiyeeRRangkaLum is given
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 14, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Dr.Kalyan,

                      Let us not read between the lines. What I have mentioned in the
                      Tamil-ulagam list in my article "tholkaappiyamum, kuRiyeeRRangkaLum" is
                      given below (in TSCII encoding):

                      þÃñ¼¡ÅÐ - þÐ þÐìÌ þýÉ ¦ÀÂ÷. Ó¾ø áüÀ¡×§Ä «Æ¸¡î ¦º¡øÈ¡÷ À¡Õí¸,
                      ¦¾¡ø¸¡ôÀ¢Â÷. «¸ÃòÐ§Ä ¦¾¡¼í¸¢ ɸÃõ ŨÃýÛ ¦À¨Ãî ¦º¡øÈ¡÷. þ¾¡í¸ «ó¾
                      ±ØòÐì¸ÙìÌô ¦ÀÂÕ. TSCII Á¼üÌØ×§Ä TSCII ±ØòÐì¸§Ç À¾¢× ¦ºöÔȨ¾ô Àò¾¢ þôÀô
                      §Àº¢ì¸¢ðÎ þÕ측í¸. «ó¾ô §ÀîͧÄ, þó¾ ±ØòÐì¸ÙìÌ ±ýÉ §ÀÕ ¦¸¡Î츢ÈÐíÌÈЧÄ
                      ´§Ã ºñ¨¼. Printed salvation þÕ측? §À÷ ¦º¡øÄ¢ ¡áÛõ ¦À¡ò¾¸õ
                      §À¡ðÊÕì¸ÏÅÇ¡? §Å§È ±í¦¸ö¡ §À¡¸Ïõ, ¦¾¡ø¸¡ôÀ¢ÂÕõ, þÇõâýÕõ,
                      ¿îº¢É¡÷츢ɢÂÕõ Àò¾¡¾¡? «×¸ÙìÌ §Á§Ä Â¡Õ ¬½ò¾¢? (¬½ò¾¢ -íÌÈÐ §º¡Æ÷
                      ¸ø¦ÅðÎì¸û§Ä authority íÌÈÐì¸¡É ¦º¡ø; ¬¨½ þ¼ì ÜÊÂÅý ¬½ò¾¢; ¿¡Á ±ýɼ¡ýÉ¡,
                      «¨¾ò ¦¾¡¨ÄðÎ «¾¢¸¡Ã¢, «ò¾¡Ã¢ðÊýÛ ¾ÎÁ¡È¢ì¸¢ðÎ þÕ째¡õ.)

                      I had mentioned about "printed salvation" mainly because it is often
                      difficult to give printed references for certain premitive/old facts.
                      Names for letters and symbols are of that category. I have tried my
                      level best and helped MaNiVaNNan by providing substantive references.
                      Still there are a few (a sharper mind can find few shortcomings there)
                      for which we do not have absolute printed proofs.

                      This kind of status exist in Humanities subjects, like linguistics. For
                      example, how does one give an earliest reference (excepting other than
                      Rev. Caldwell's master piece) to say that Tamil Ka is to be pronounced
                      differently depending upon its occurrence in a word (initial and middle
                      positions, preceeding nasals, succeeding kuRRiyalukaram etc.)? [Rev.
                      Caldwell's work is only about 131 years old. Before he recorded it, not
                      a single work has mentioned this fact about pronouncing. Does that mean
                      these sounds did not exist in Tamil before the 19th century? Where can I
                      find a proof that these sounds could have existed in Tamil
                      pronouncements even during Tholkappiyar's time? We can only form
                      surmises, conjectures, and no proofs in the scientific sense.

                      Similarly I can quote many examples in etymology, where I find only
                      nouns recorded in Tamil dictionaries, while the corrresponding verbs are
                      not recorded, even though we can logically infer? Often enough critics
                      ask "whether such and such a word is recorded in Sangam literature?" if
                      I say that it is not directly recorded but a variation is referred to,
                      for example noun, the critics would automatically say "You see, it must
                      be a loan word from Sanskrit when there is no recording of the
                      corresponding verbs, Come on, next......" [Pleae refer to a current
                      discussion in The ctamil list on the word "ayyai". Usual refrain is "O,
                      It must be a loan from the Sanskrit word Arya. You see it is referred to
                      in the Vedas. So QED."

                      I get fed up with those kind of arguments; most of these people think
                      that Sangam literature is a dictionary and a repositary of all Tamil
                      words then prevailing in 300 BCE to 300 CE. As per them, Sangam
                      literature gives a printed salvation. They dont ask a similar question
                      about Vedas (and Sanskrit), which was completely kept through oral
                      traditions till Gupta times in the 5 century CE. For these scholars,
                      many words referred to in Monier Williams are taken as God-sent Truth,
                      even when Monier Williams himself may have given that the origins of
                      certain Sanskrit words are unknown.

                      Alternatively, searching for printed salvation can also be a trap in a
                      weird way.

                      I recently gave an example in the tunerfc list about some persons
                      claiming the grantha letter ssa/sha (U+0BB6) as a Tamil letter. Based on
                      these requests, and after recommendation from INFITT, Unicode Consortium
                      has included the said letter in the Unicode character table;
                      (unfortunately, TANE has also sheepishly followed the Unicode
                      Consortium. In TSCII we have not done that.) This way they will fill
                      most of the gaps in the Unicode Tamil Block and make it similar to the
                      Unicode Nagari block. Such is the state of affairs.

                      The printed proof for inclusion of this letter into the Unicode Tamil
                      Block was supposed to be the Madras University Tamil Lexicon. I can only
                      laugh at the conclusion and recommendation. If that letter was in the
                      mainstream of Tamil language teaching, how come crores of Tamils
                      including yours obediently have not been taught that letter in their
                      childhood, since the time it was attested in the Madras University Tamil
                      Lexicon? I asked all other members in that list to state whether they
                      have been taught this letter or not? Unfortunately, they chose to be
                      silent. I felt sad; since the reaction was very diplomatic and not
                      honest. We Tamils prefer to be strange, when a response is essential and
                      had to be forthright.

                      Did that printed salvation of Tamil Lexicon suffice to establish the
                      truth about (U+0BB6) being a Tamil letter? Was that assertion a truth?

                      Dear Dr.Kalyan,

                      I am also a proud technologist, coming close to a professional career,
                      and having earlier gone through the extreme rigours and demands of
                      research through a major European University. I know the value of giving
                      references in a major document incorporating an official standard. (The
                      person who is supposed to have taken a swipe at people who ask for
                      documentary support for items that go to make an official standard was
                      the one who gave references to MaNivaNNan including the first occurrence
                      of the name "kaal" in IlampuuraNam.)

                      But then a blind request of printed salvation ........, I take it with a
                      pinch of salt. As mentioned above, after seeing the spurious reference /
                      proof on the occurrence of ssa/sha in Tamil, I can only say "Let us be
                      realistic".

                      I am for references, but after evaluating sensibly.

                      With regards,
                      iraamaki.


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: tscii@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tscii@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      Kalyanasundaram K
                      Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:39 PM
                      To: tscii@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [tscii] Re: Tamil Character Name Proposal - Revision October
                      31, 2006

                      Dear Mani:

                      I was waiting for about 2 weeks to see if there is any comments
                      on your revised version of the draft TSCII proposal. IMHO, it is
                      important
                      that we go ahead and file the proposal even if the content does not get
                      100% approval of everyone.

                      As far as I am concerned, proposed chart as indicated with romanized
                      equivalents given (as = tamil letter pu etc) is fine. This would help
                      non-Tamil software developers understand the specs and also link
                      with the TSCII-Unicode mapping table already online at Unicode website.

                      I was dismayed to read the comments of Ramki posted to tamil-ulagam
                      list where he took a swipe at people who ask for documentary support
                      for items that go to make an official standard. I have difficulties
                      accepting
                      claims of someone that "such and such is so basic and fundamental to the
                      language", yet they cannot cite one single printed source to support
                      their
                      claim. For those who have been engaged in academic research (not only
                      in pure science or engg but also in humanities including anthropology,
                      history that all statements that are "not obvious" to that community
                      needs
                      to be adequately referenced. Bibliographic citation of prior work is
                      an absolute
                      must to build things further. Anything built without solid back up of
                      sources
                      will be risky, liable to collapse one day ;-)

                      In the present case, I am ready to accept your statements that
                      distinguished
                      Tamil scholars like Prof. George Hart have given their consent for us
                      to go
                      ahead with the present list of Tamil centric names.

                      I request other members of the signatory group to this proposal to post
                      here a note on their concurrence to go ahead with the draft proposal.

                      anbudan
                      Kalyan
                    • Venkatram Shrinivas.
                      Dear Sir, I know I am just an ordinary member of TSCIII Group and certainly not a signatory member Because your mail appeared in my Yahoo inbox, kindly bear
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 14, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Sir,

                        I know I am just an ordinary member of TSCIII Group and certainly not a "signatory member"

                        Because your mail appeared in my Yahoo inbox, kindly bear with me for my uncontrollable templation to post my comments which are as below:
                        Your proposed decision has my 100% concurrence, or to use a more appropriate word, support.

                        V.Shrinivas
                        Kalyanasundaram K <kalyan.geo@...> wrote:
                        Dear Mani:

                        I was waiting for about 2 weeks to see if there is any comments
                        on your revised version of the draft TSCII proposal. IMHO, it is important
                        that we go ahead and file the proposal even if the content does not get
                        100% approval of everyone.

                        As far as I am concerned, proposed chart as indicated with romanized
                        equivalents given (as = tamil letter pu etc) is fine. This would help
                        non-Tamil software developers understand the specs and also link
                        with the TSCII-Unicode mapping table already online at Unicode website.

                        I was dismayed to read the comments of Ramki posted to tamil-ulagam
                        list where he took a swipe at people who ask for documentary support
                        for items that go to make an official standard. I have difficulties
                        accepting
                        claims of someone that "such and such is so basic and fundamental to the
                        language", yet they cannot cite one single printed source to support their
                        claim. For those who have been engaged in academic research (not only
                        in pure science or engg but also in humanities including anthropology,
                        history that all statements that are "not obvious" to that community needs
                        to be adequately referenced. Bibliographic citation of prior work is
                        an absolute
                        must to build things further. Anything built without solid back up of
                        sources
                        will be risky, liable to collapse one day ;-)

                        In the present case, I am ready to accept your statements that
                        distinguished
                        Tamil scholars like Prof. George Hart have given their consent for us
                        to go
                        ahead with the present list of Tamil centric names.

                        I request other members of the signatory group to this proposal to post
                        here a note on their concurrence to go ahead with the draft proposal.

                        anbudan
                        Kalyan

                        --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, "Mani M. Manivannan"
                        <mani_m_manivannan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Team,
                        >
                        > Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal. I am
                        uploading
                        > the supporting documents in http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%20Names/
                        >
                        > I will post a separate document justifying the names in the proposal
                        citing
                        > the documents available.
                        >
                        > I am thankful to all the Tamil scholars, Tamil Virtual University
                        for their
                        > input and their encouragement.
                        >
                        > Thanks to Ramaki for his invaluable contribution to this final
                        version and
                        > for his scholarly references and logical arguments.
                        >
                        > If there are any typos or errors in this, I take responsibility.
                        >
                        > -Mani M. Manivannan
                        >
                        >
                        > Tamil Character Name Proposal
                        > Revision October 31, 2006
                        > -------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > 80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
                        > = Tamil digit zero
                        > 81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
                        > = Tamil digit one
                        > 82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
                        > = Tamil letter sri
                        > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
                        > = Tamil letter ja
                        > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
                        > = Tamil letter ssa
                        > 85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
                        > = Tamil letter sa
                        > 86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
                        > = Tamil letter ha
                        > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
                        > = Tamil letter ksha
                        > 88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
                        > = Tamil letter j
                        > 89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
                        > = Tamil letter ss
                        > 8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
                        > = Tamil letter s
                        > 8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
                        > = Tamil letter h
                        > 8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
                        > = Tamil letter ksh
                        > 8D TAMIL DIGIT IRANNNTU
                        > = Tamil digit two
                        > 8E TAMIL DIGIT MUUNNRRU
                        > = Tamil digit three
                        > 8F TAMIL DIGIT NAANNKU
                        > = Tamil digit four
                        > 90 TAMIL DIGIT AINTHU
                        > = Tamil digit five
                        > 91 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
                        > 92 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
                        > 93 LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
                        > 94 RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
                        > 95 TAMIL DIGIT AARRU
                        > = Tamil digit six
                        > 96 TAMIL DIGIT EEZHU
                        > = Tamil digit seven
                        > 97 TAMIL DIGIT ETTU
                        > = Tamil digit eight
                        > 98 TAMIL DIGIT ONPATHU
                        > = Tamil digit nine
                        > 99 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ngu
                        > 9A TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nju
                        > 9B TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nguu
                        > 9C TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter njuu
                        > 9D TAMIL NUMBER PATHTHU
                        > = Tamil number ten
                        > 9E TAMIL NUMBER NUURRU
                        > = Tamil number one hundred
                        > 9F TAMIL NUMBER AAYIRAM
                        > = Tamil number one thousand
                        > A0 <NOT ASSIGNED>
                        > A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
                        > = Tamil vowel sign aa
                        > A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
                        > = Tamil vowel sign i
                        > A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
                        > = Tamil vowel sign ii
                        > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
                        > = Tamil vowel sign u
                        > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-KONNNTAI
                        > = Tamil vowel sign uu
                        > A6 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOMPU
                        > = Tamil vowel sign e
                        > A7 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-K-KOMPU
                        > = Tamil vowel sign ee
                        > A8 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-C-CUZHI
                        > = Tamil vowel sign ai
                        > A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN
                        > AA TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CIRRAKU
                        > = Tamil au length mark
                        > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter a
                        > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter aa
                        > AD TAMIL LETTER IKARAM (USAGE IN SLOT DEPRECATED)
                        > = Tamil letter i (usage in slot deprecated)
                        > AE TAMIL LETTER IIKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ii
                        > AF TAMIL LETTER UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter u
                        > B0 TAMIL LETTER UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter uu
                        > B1 TAMIL LETTER EKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter e
                        > B2 TAMIL LETTER EEKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ee
                        > B3 TAMIL LETTER AIKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ai
                        > B4 TAMIL LETTER OKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter o
                        > B5 TAMIL LETTER OOKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter oo
                        > B6 TAMIL LETTER AUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter au
                        > B7 TAMIL AAYTHAM LETTER AKHENAM or AKHAAN
                        > = Tamil letter aaytham
                        > B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ka
                        > B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nga
                        > BA TAMIL LETTER CAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ca
                        > BB TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nja
                        > BC TAMIL LETTER TAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter tta
                        > BD TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nnna
                        > BE TAMIL LETTER THAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ta
                        > BF TAMIL LETTER NAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter na
                        > C0 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter pa
                        > C1 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ma
                        > C2 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ya
                        > C3 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ra
                        > C4 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter la
                        > C5 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter va
                        > C6 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter llla
                        > C7 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter lla
                        > C8 TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter rra
                        > C9 TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA AKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nna
                        > CA TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter tti
                        > CB TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IIKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ttii
                        > CC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ku
                        > CD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter cu
                        > CE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ttu
                        > CF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nnnu
                        > D0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter tu
                        > D1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nu
                        > D2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter pu
                        > D3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter mu
                        > D4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter yu
                        > D5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ru
                        > D6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter lu
                        > D7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter vu
                        > D8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter lllu
                        > D9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter llu
                        > DA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter rru
                        > DB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nnu
                        > DC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter kuu
                        > DD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter cuu
                        > DE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ttuu
                        > DF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nnnuu
                        > E0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter tuu
                        > E1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nuu
                        > E2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter puu
                        > E3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter muu
                        > E4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter yuu
                        > E5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ruu
                        > E6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter luu
                        > E7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter vuu
                        > E8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter llluu
                        > E9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter lluu
                        > EA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter rruu
                        > EB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UUKAARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nnuu
                        > EC TAMIL LETTER KAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter k
                        > ED TAMIL LETTER NGAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ng
                        > EE TAMIL LETTER CAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter c
                        > EF TAMIL LETTER NJAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nj
                        > F0 TAMIL LETTER TAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter tt
                        > F1 TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nnn
                        > F2 TAMIL LETTER THAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter t
                        > F3 TAMIL LETTER NAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter n
                        > F4 TAMIL LETTER PAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter p
                        > F5 TAMIL LETTER MAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter m
                        > F6 TAMIL LETTER YAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter y
                        > F7 TAMIL LETTER RAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter r
                        > F8 TAMIL LETTER LAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter l
                        > F9 TAMIL LETTER VAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter v
                        > FA TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter LLL
                        > FB TAMIL LETTER LLAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter ll
                        > FC TAMIL LETTER RRAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter rr
                        > FD TAMIL LETTER NNAKARAM
                        > = Tamil letter nn
                        > FE TAMIL VOWEL IKARAM
                        > FF <NOT ASSIGNED>
                        >






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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • naga_ganesan
                        ... am uploading ... 20Names/ ... Has this document been posted? I will be interested to read it. Here are some suggestions: (1) ... This is a combination of
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 14, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, "Mani M. Manivannan"
                          <mani_m_manivannan@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Team,
                          >
                          > Here is the long promised Tamil character name proposal. I
                          am uploading
                          > the supporting documents in http://www.tscii.org/Tamil%20Char%
                          20Names/
                          >
                          > I will post a separate document justifying the names
                          > in the proposal citing the documents available.
                          >

                          Has this document been posted? I will be interested
                          to read it.

                          Here are some suggestions:

                          (1)

                          > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
                          > = Tamil letter ksha

                          This is a combination of two letters, k and sha.
                          So, this can be called
                          "87 TAMIL GRANTHA CONJUNCT LETTER KSHA
                          = Tamil (conjunct) letter ksha"

                          Also, this conjunct letter is from letter, ssa
                          (so named in unicode):
                          > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
                          > = Tamil letter ssa

                          To be consistent, we can use
                          "87 TAMIL GRANTHA CONJUNCT LETTER KSSA
                          = Tamil (conjunct) letter ksha"

                          (2)
                          > A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign i
                          > A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign ii

                          In Tamil old grammar books, these are called
                          "MEEL VILANGU". Vilangku means chain, half-circle etc.,
                          MEEL VILANGKU = arch on top.

                          > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign u
                          > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-
                          KONNNTAI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign uu

                          These were suggested in Tamil books for
                          Tamil vowel signs i and ii. Kontai is something new,
                          perhaps from Dr. Ramki.


                          > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign u
                          > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-
                          KONNNTAI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign uu

                          These are normally called as "KIIZH VILANGKU" in Tamil grammar.

                          (3)

                          > A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
                          > = Tamil vowel sign aa

                          To take into account, the Sri Lankan Tamils' usage,
                          this can be named as:
                          A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL or ARAVU

                          (4) In Indian languages, there is a long tradition
                          of using -karam/-kAram for vowels and aksharams.

                          > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter a
                          > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM

                          In parallel,
                          > EC TAMIL LETTER KAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter k
                          > ED TAMIL LETTER NGAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ng

                          KAKARAM usually denotes letter KA,
                          NGAKARAM usually denotes letter CA,
                          and so on.

                          For example, in Tamil literature and nighanTus (dictionaries),
                          "cakara varkkam" means letters with CA and so on.

                          So, to signify that they are pure consonants, a small change:
                          EC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA MEY
                          = Tamil letter k
                          ED TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA MEY
                          = Tamil letter ng

                          (5)

                          > B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ka
                          > B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nga

                          In consistency with names like AKARAM, UKARAM, ...
                          to denote letters, a, u, ..., use of names like
                          KAKARAM, NGAKARAM, to denote ka, nga, ... is suggested:

                          B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARAM
                          = Tamil letter ka
                          B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARAM
                          = Tamil letter nga"

                          (6)

                          > CD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter cu

                          There's difficulty in telling "CAKARA UKARAM" is CA followed by U
                          or the uyirmey letter, CU.

                          In Tamil, the usual name for these letters is UYIRMEY.

                          So, suggetsion:
                          CD TAMIL LETTER UYIRMEY CU (or CUKARAM)
                          = Tamil letter cu
                          etc.

                          N. Ganesan




                          > I am thankful to all the Tamil scholars, Tamil Virtual University
                          for their
                          > input and their encouragement.
                          >
                          > Thanks to Ramaki for his invaluable contribution to this final
                          version and
                          > for his scholarly references and logical arguments.
                          >
                          > If there are any typos or errors in this, I take responsibility.
                          >
                          > -Mani M. Manivannan
                          >
                          >
                          > Tamil Character Name Proposal
                          > Revision October 31, 2006
                          > -------------------------------------------
                          >
                          > 80 TAMIL DIGIT CUZHI
                          > = Tamil digit zero
                          > 81 TAMIL DIGIT ONRRU
                          > = Tamil digit one
                          > 82 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SRI
                          > = Tamil letter sri
                          > 83 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER JA
                          > = Tamil letter ja
                          > 84 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SSA
                          > = Tamil letter ssa
                          > 85 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SA
                          > = Tamil letter sa
                          > 86 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER HA
                          > = Tamil letter ha
                          > 87 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSHA
                          > = Tamil letter ksha
                          > 88 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER J
                          > = Tamil letter j
                          > 89 TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER SS
                          > = Tamil letter ss
                          > 8A TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER S
                          > = Tamil letter s
                          > 8B TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER H
                          > = Tamil letter h
                          > 8C TAMIL GRANTHA LETTER KSH
                          > = Tamil letter ksh
                          > 8D TAMIL DIGIT IRANNNTU
                          > = Tamil digit two
                          > 8E TAMIL DIGIT MUUNNRRU
                          > = Tamil digit three
                          > 8F TAMIL DIGIT NAANNKU
                          > = Tamil digit four
                          > 90 TAMIL DIGIT AINTHU
                          > = Tamil digit five
                          > 91 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
                          > 92 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
                          > 93 LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
                          > 94 RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
                          > 95 TAMIL DIGIT AARRU
                          > = Tamil digit six
                          > 96 TAMIL DIGIT EEZHU
                          > = Tamil digit seven
                          > 97 TAMIL DIGIT ETTU
                          > = Tamil digit eight
                          > 98 TAMIL DIGIT ONPATHU
                          > = Tamil digit nine
                          > 99 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ngu
                          > 9A TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nju
                          > 9B TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nguu
                          > 9C TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter njuu
                          > 9D TAMIL NUMBER PATHTHU
                          > = Tamil number ten
                          > 9E TAMIL NUMBER NUURRU
                          > = Tamil number one hundred
                          > 9F TAMIL NUMBER AAYIRAM
                          > = Tamil number one thousand
                          > A0 <NOT ASSIGNED>
                          > A1 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KAAL
                          > = Tamil vowel sign aa
                          > A2 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOKKI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign i
                          > A3 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI-K-KOKKI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign ii
                          > A4 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN MEEL VILANGU or KONNNTAI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign u
                          > A5 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CUZHI MEEL VILANGU or CUZHI-K-
                          KONNNTAI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign uu
                          > A6 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN KOMPU
                          > = Tamil vowel sign e
                          > A7 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-K-KOMPU
                          > = Tamil vowel sign ee
                          > A8 TAMIL VOWEL SIGN IRATTAI-C-CUZHI
                          > = Tamil vowel sign ai
                          > A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN
                          > AA TAMIL VOWEL SIGN CIRRAKU
                          > = Tamil au length mark
                          > AB TAMIL LETTER AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter a
                          > AC TAMIL LETTER AAKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter aa
                          > AD TAMIL LETTER IKARAM (USAGE IN SLOT DEPRECATED)
                          > = Tamil letter i (usage in slot deprecated)
                          > AE TAMIL LETTER IIKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ii
                          > AF TAMIL LETTER UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter u
                          > B0 TAMIL LETTER UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter uu
                          > B1 TAMIL LETTER EKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter e
                          > B2 TAMIL LETTER EEKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ee
                          > B3 TAMIL LETTER AIKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ai
                          > B4 TAMIL LETTER OKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter o
                          > B5 TAMIL LETTER OOKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter oo
                          > B6 TAMIL LETTER AUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter au
                          > B7 TAMIL AAYTHAM LETTER AKHENAM or AKHAAN
                          > = Tamil letter aaytham
                          > B8 TAMIL LETTER KAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ka
                          > B9 TAMIL LETTER NGAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nga
                          > BA TAMIL LETTER CAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ca
                          > BB TAMIL LETTER NJAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nja
                          > BC TAMIL LETTER TAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter tta
                          > BD TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nnna
                          > BE TAMIL LETTER THAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ta
                          > BF TAMIL LETTER NAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter na
                          > C0 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter pa
                          > C1 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ma
                          > C2 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ya
                          > C3 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ra
                          > C4 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter la
                          > C5 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter va
                          > C6 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter llla
                          > C7 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter lla
                          > C8 TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter rra
                          > C9 TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA AKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nna
                          > CA TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter tti
                          > CB TAMIL LETTER TAKARA IIKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ttii
                          > CC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ku
                          > CD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter cu
                          > CE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ttu
                          > CF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nnnu
                          > D0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter tu
                          > D1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nu
                          > D2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter pu
                          > D3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter mu
                          > D4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter yu
                          > D5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ru
                          > D6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter lu
                          > D7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter vu
                          > D8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter lllu
                          > D9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter llu
                          > DA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter rru
                          > DB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nnu
                          > DC TAMIL LETTER KAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter kuu
                          > DD TAMIL LETTER CAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter cuu
                          > DE TAMIL LETTER TAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ttuu
                          > DF TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nnnuu
                          > E0 TAMIL LETTER THAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter tuu
                          > E1 TAMIL LETTER NAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nuu
                          > E2 TAMIL LETTER PAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter puu
                          > E3 TAMIL LETTER MAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter muu
                          > E4 TAMIL LETTER YAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter yuu
                          > E5 TAMIL LETTER RAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ruu
                          > E6 TAMIL LETTER LAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter luu
                          > E7 TAMIL LETTER VAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter vuu
                          > E8 TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter llluu
                          > E9 TAMIL LETTER LLAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter lluu
                          > EA TAMIL LETTER RRAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter rruu
                          > EB TAMIL LETTER NNAKARA UUKAARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nnuu
                          > EE TAMIL LETTER CAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter c
                          > EF TAMIL LETTER NJAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nj
                          > F0 TAMIL LETTER TAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter tt
                          > F1 TAMIL LETTER NNNAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nnn
                          > F2 TAMIL LETTER THAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter t
                          > F3 TAMIL LETTER NAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter n
                          > F4 TAMIL LETTER PAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter p
                          > F5 TAMIL LETTER MAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter m
                          > F6 TAMIL LETTER YAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter y
                          > F7 TAMIL LETTER RAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter r
                          > F8 TAMIL LETTER LAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter l
                          > F9 TAMIL LETTER VAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter v
                          > FA TAMIL LETTER ZHAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter LLL
                          > FB TAMIL LETTER LLAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter ll
                          > FC TAMIL LETTER RRAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter rr
                          > FD TAMIL LETTER NNAKARAM
                          > = Tamil letter nn
                          > FE TAMIL VOWEL IKARAM
                          > FF <NOT ASSIGNED>
                          >
                        • Jagannathan Narayanasamy
                          The Tamilnadu Goverment has recently appointed a committee under the Chairmanship of Dr.M.Ananthakrishnan, wherein the names of Kalyanasundaram, Mani
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 15, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            The Tamilnadu Goverment has recently appointed a committee under the Chairmanship of Dr.M.Ananthakrishnan, wherein the names of Kalyanasundaram, Mani Manivannan and others are included to consider and finalise the proposed 16 bit system.

                            Does the tscii group propose to await the outcome of the above committee before finalising the TCNP -Revision October 31,2006 version?
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