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Re: Tamil Glossary of Microsoft - unicode

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  • eravichandran2001
    Dear Venkatesh, Perhaps you can visit this weblink for more Tamil Glossary terminology almost complete for various disciplines.
    Message 1 of 27 , May 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Venkatesh,

      Perhaps you can visit this weblink for more Tamil Glossary
      terminology almost complete for various disciplines.
      https://www.tamilvu.org/library/o33/html/o3300001.htm

      Best regards, Ravi


      --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, somasundaram venkatesvaran
      <venkatesh64@y...> wrote:
      > ATTENTION TO TAMIL PROGRAMMERS,
      > THE MICROSOFT SITE IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON TAMIL GLOSSARY
      PROJECT. FOR WHICH, MAY YOU KINDLY VISIT THE SITE,(
      http://members.microsoft.com/wincg/home.aspx?s=1&langid=1097 )
      > GET ENROLLED, AND TAKE A LOOK INTO THE PROJECT? BECAUSE, I FELT
      MOST OF THE TERMS ARE NOT PRECISE; NOR SHORT AND SIMPLE. FOR YOUR
      REFERENCE, ABOUT THIS, ALREADY THE WRITER sUJATHA HAS PUBLISHED A
      FULL?? LIST. WWW.THISAIGAL.COM HAS MENTIONED ABOUT THIS.
      http://www.thisaigal.com/april04/bashaU.html
      > also visit to this link < http://www.thamizha.com/modules.php?
      name=News&file=article&sid=25 >for a clear understanding of unicode
      on Tamil.
      > thanks
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Peace in Tamil Elam
      Ravi, Where I can get the fonts for this to review? eravichandran2001 wrote: Dear Venkatesh, Perhaps you can visit this weblink for more
      Message 2 of 27 , May 2, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Ravi,
        Where I can get the fonts for this to review?

        eravichandran2001 <ravigalu@...> wrote:
        Dear Venkatesh,

        Perhaps you can visit this weblink for more Tamil Glossary
        terminology almost complete for various disciplines.
        https://www.tamilvu.org/library/o33/html/o3300001.htm

        Best regards, Ravi


        --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, somasundaram venkatesvaran
        <venkatesh64@y...> wrote:
        > ATTENTION TO TAMIL PROGRAMMERS,
        > THE MICROSOFT SITE IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON TAMIL GLOSSARY
        PROJECT. FOR WHICH, MAY YOU KINDLY VISIT THE SITE,(
        http://members.microsoft.com/wincg/home.aspx?s=1&langid=1097 )
        > GET ENROLLED, AND TAKE A LOOK INTO THE PROJECT? BECAUSE, I FELT
        MOST OF THE TERMS ARE NOT PRECISE; NOR SHORT AND SIMPLE. FOR YOUR
        REFERENCE, ABOUT THIS, ALREADY THE WRITER sUJATHA HAS PUBLISHED A
        FULL?? LIST. WWW.THISAIGAL.COM HAS MENTIONED ABOUT THIS.
        http://www.thisaigal.com/april04/bashaU.html
        > also visit to this link < http://www.thamizha.com/modules.php?
        name=News&file=article&sid=25 >for a clear understanding of unicode
        on Tamil.
        > thanks
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • Ravindran K. Paul
        ... language that works? If so I can definitly advice that devloper to write a Tamil database program. ... database program, I can definitly give you system
        Message 3 of 27 , May 3, 2004
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          --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas <sisrivas@y...
          > wrote:
          > Do you know if any UTF8 based database program of any
          language that works? If so I can definitly advice that devloper to
          write a Tamil database program.
          >
          > Are you interested in developing a UTF8 based Tamil
          database program, I can definitly give you system level advice to
          do that.
          >

          How do you know that you should advice me and not the other
          way around! You are not the only expert out there.

          For your information I wrote Tamil database applications more
          than a year ago! The only problem is that nobody is willing to
          "pay" for such applications and I cannot get funding to develop it
          further. Those with "full time" jobs can do research in their spare
          time, but Tamil software developers have to pay for the time they
          spend. Therefore instead of continuing development, I have
          been sitting on it for more than a year.

          The problem is that there are so many "experts" giving advice
          out there that those who can really get things done are drowned
          in the noise they create.

          > It is a problem that, untill the west begin to use UTF8, it is
          going to be a difficult task for us.
          >
          > We could not do much with 8bit. This trend will continue with
          16bit too.
          >
          > There is no Tamil specific problem with regard to Unicode. We
          could not even make it with international support, with multiple
          languages struggling to make it with UTF8. Do you think you will
          move an inch on your own?
          >
          > Do not refuse to think and to understand the serious
          consequeces of we taking our own different UTF8 system.
          >

          I just have a different understanding. My objectives and priorities
          are different from yours. Within my framework of priorities,
          encouraging the use of 8 bit encoding is more benefitial.

          > As for keyboard, I have experimented Tamil99 keyboard and it
          is optimal. Yes I can make it better, but this is not how systems
          operate.

          So don't use the word SCIENTIFIC. Just say "in my opinion". It is
          very misleading.

          >The study was done by institutions with the backing of
          Universities.
          >

          As I have stated in e-mail after e-mail, just SHOW me the study!

          Just because it is a university it does not make it a better study.
          Universities do not have to live with the results of their studies,
          but rather the developer.

          > Take the English Typewriter. It was originally designed to slow
          down the typist as much as possible, because the mechanical
          parts were jamming to a serious extent. That layout is still used
          in computing, with character per minutes demand. I hope you
          understand what a standard system means. If you think you
          need to chane, work on it but do not try to stop the computing.
          >
          > There is no Tamil specific problem with UTF8.
          > There is a standard keyboard layout known as Tamil99, with a
          backup system of Romanised phonetis layout.
          >

          As I said right from the beginning I do not want to persuade
          anyone because most of you will come up with this same
          argument. Check my e-mails. I already know it is a lost cause.

          The sad thing is nobody is interested, even for intellectual
          curiosity.

          But, I do strongly object to the words OPTIMAL and SCIENTIFIC.
          Just state that Tamil99 is a reasonably efficient standard and
          that there are more efficient non-standard layouts available.

          There is no point in trying to improve Tamil if it is built on a
          foundation of "lies" and "half-truths"!

          > Srivas
          >
          > "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
          > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas <sisrivas@y.
          ..
          > > wrote:
          > > Dear Ravin,
          > >
          > > Unicode: programmers/developers do not understand the
          > architecture of Unicode. That is why it is difficult.
          >
          > I am amazed at how you come up with these conclusions!
          How
          > on earth did you discover this? How did you find out that I do
          not
          > understand?
          >
          > >Even with the new proposal, the programming will be difficult,
          > because many does not understand UTF8. There is no tamil
          > specific difficulties.
          > >
          > > With the new proposal, there will be Tamil specific problem,
          > because no one is there to explain how UTF8 will work for
          Tamil.
          > This is also a dangerous trend. Departing away from
          > international standard for computing, is going for isolation and
          > hope those under stand the isolation in scientific world can
          cost
          > the Tamils.
          > >
          >
          > There is no tamil specific problem here. This is just another
          way
          > to express the font coding and does not depart from any
          > "international standard for computing". Your comments on
          > "isolation" and "cost the Tamil" are excessively dramatic.
          >
          > > There is no Tamil specifi Unicode difficulties. to understand
          > this one need to understand the Unicode architecture.
          > >
          >
          > Write me a Tamil Unicode database application across all
          OS's
          > and platforms and I will follow you to the ends of the earth!
          >
          > > As for keyboard, You better write about your ideas.
          > >
          > > I analised tamil99, and it is much optimal to the existing
          > Typewriter layout.
          > >
          >
          > I have asked this so many times and still you have not
          > answered. Where is the written scientific proof that you have
          > stated!
          >
          > I have personally analysed the Typewriter layout and it is very
          > efficient. What about all the other layouts? Did you analsyse
          > them? What was the basis of your analysis? Statistical
          > Frequency? Stroke count? Optimal placement?
          >
          > The thing I find most disturbing obout Tamil development is
          the
          > lack of documented research. So many people make
          statments,
          > but almost none back it up with well written and published
          > research.
          >
          > This is the real thing that is holding back Tamil development. It
          > is very easy to write about something, but it is another thing to
          > prove it.
          >
          > Give me facts. Without proof, everything you say is just an
          > opinion. Everybody has one and it is impossible to prove who
          is
          > right.
          >
          > Keyboards are a classic example. Its more than 10 years and I
          > have still not seen anyone actually test these layouts with
          actual
          > test subjects (except me) ! Everybody is talking in theory.
          Nobody
          > cares to prove that their theories are right.
          >
          > > Srivas
          > >
          > > "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
          > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
          <sisrivas@y.
          > ..
          > > > wrote:
          > > > Dear Ravindran Paul,
          > > >
          > > > Attepting to bring in another (may be better) layout is not
          what
          > > we are talking about. The current one is optimal and we want
          > to
          > > use one layout.
          > >
          > > How is optimal? Did you analyse it?
          > > Has anyone done research?
          > > Has anyone compared it against other layouts?
          > > Have you seen the so called scientific evidence?
          > >
          > > The problem is most do not want to know. Just because one
          > > group says something they assume it is right. No one wants
          > > to check out the facts for themselves. You are obviously a
          > > prime example here.
          > >
          > > It is a well known fact that the Tamil99 design is not optimal!
          > >
          > > >If you have reasons to beleive that it is not THE optimal, this
          > > has to be dealt with at different level. You should go and put
          > your
          > > points to INFITT and see if you can improve on that. But, do
          not
          > > hinder the average implementors. If you can manage to
          prove
          > > that chnging again is a better bet and you manage to get the
          > > acceptance of others, we would also follow that path.
          > > >
          > > > For now let us have one layout (two with romanised
          version)
          > > and let's not confuse and complicate matters.
          > > >
          > >
          > > I already stated earlier I do not want to convince anyone,
          > > specifically because most "average implementors" are like
          > you.
          > > You do not want to "confuse and complicate matters".
          > Therefore
          > > you accept what is convenient without any investigation.
          > >
          > > I can prove all I have said, but most of you will still come
          back
          > > with the
          > >
          > > "let us have one layout" and "let's not confuse and
          complicate
          > > matters"
          > >
          > > defence to maintain the status quo. I would just be wasting
          my
          > > time!
          > >
          > > > You may recall that I tried to amalgamate TSC and TAB.
          Even
          > > then, I said one and only one 8bit encoding should override
          > any
          > > other technically superior design.
          > > >
          > > > As for Unicode, it is correct, scientifc and follows Tamil
          > > Grammar.
          > >
          > > That is rubbish and you should know it!
          > >
          > > >What is proposed now is unscientific, against Tamil
          > Grammar
          > > and cumbersome.
          > >
          > > Not from a programmers point of view!
          > >
          > > >This is my standard. This does not mean, if an ill advised
          > > method for Unicode is to become the new encoding, I'll then
          > > have to obey the decision.
          > > >
          > >
          > > On this one matter I agree with you.
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Hope you understand the steps that you need to serve
          Tamil.
          > > >
          > > You seem to imply that your steps are the right ones to serve
          > > Tamil, and that developers like me who have spent the past
          20
          > > years writing Tamil software are hindering the development
          of
          > > Tamil.
          > >
          > > It could be also stated with equal logic that people like you
          are
          > > hindering the development of Tamil software, that
          established
          > > software developers are trying to do!
          > >
          > > The problem is not who is right. But, rather to give due
          > > consideration that others may know something you don't!
          > >
          > > > (Note: can you send your ideas about improving or
          > > redesigning Tamil layout. Please accept Tamil99 as the
          > > accepted standard and state clearly that you want to work on
          > > changing it or improving it. May be I will also join you
          > > discussions, with some of my ideas, only if you accept the
          > > current Tamil99 keyboard as the accepted standard.)
          > > >
          > > Why should I discuss it with you when I can already prove it?
          > > Furthermore, what experience have you with keyboard
          design?
          > > What authority do you have to modify/improve this design?
          Infitt
          > > does not and neither does the Tamil community.
          > >
          > > Note : I have already accepted Tamil99 and it has been part
          of
          > > my software since 1999. That though does not mean I have
          to
          > > endorse it!
          > >
          > > > Srivas
          > > >
          > > > "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
          > > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
          > <sisrivas@y.
          > > ..
          > > > > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Dear Ravindran
          > > > >
          > > > > If you are picking on Grantham, I do not have time to
          > discuss.
          > > > >
          > > > > Can you explain in detail.
          > > > >
          > > > > Fingering is at it scientifically optimal position.
          > > >
          > > > Can you show me the scientific evidence? There should
          be
          > a
          > > > published paper somewhere shouldn't it? Have you seen
          it?
          > > >
          > > > I am probably the only one who as analysed it and i can
          > > assure
          > > > you that it is not optimal!
          > > >
          > > > > Standardised by the Tamil Institution INFITT.
          > > > >
          > > > Was not done by Infitt. Infitt just accepted it. Once again,
          note
          > > that
          > > > there was no research done by Infitt.
          > > >
          > > > > and is there any optimal keyborad available in the
          marlket.
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > There are better keyboards. But, if I explain, I will be
          accused
          > of
          > > > bringing up keyboard layout issues which most on the net
          do
          > > not
          > > > want to hear nor talk about.
          > > >
          > > > Just like you think there is no need for discussion on
          > Unicode
          > > > use, similarly there are those who believe there is no need
          > for
          > > > discussion on keyboards!
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Srivas
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
          > > > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
          > > <sisrivas@y.
          > > > ..
          > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > Tamil Computer Keyboards and Font Encoding
          > > > > > http://www.araichchi.com/kanini/Tamil_Keybord_2.htm
          > > > > >
          > > > > From your web-site :
          > > > >
          > > > > Advantages of Tamil99 Layout: All keys are in unshifted
          > layer.
          > > > >
          > > > > Fingering is at it scientifically optimal position.
          > Standardised
          > > > by
          > > > > the Tamil Institution INFITT.
          > > > >
          > > > > Both these facts are not true!
          > > > >
          > > > > > http://www.araichchi.com/kanini.html
          > > > > >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Padmanabhan
          Hi, I am Padmanabhan from Chennai. I am new to this group. I have few business peoples contacts and also high level decision making people in Tamilnadu
          Message 4 of 27 , May 3, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi,

            I am Padmanabhan from Chennai. I am new to this group.
            I have few business peoples contacts and also high
            level decision making people in Tamilnadu government.
            If you think, it is ok...then we will approach these
            peoples.

            We will try.

            Can you please write me the immediate requirement for
            this development. I mean funding and infrastructure. I
            will try my best.

            Thanks,

            Padmanabhan.




            Regarding this


            --- "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@...> wrote:
            > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
            > <sisrivas@y...
            > > wrote:
            > > Do you know if any UTF8 based database program of
            > any
            > language that works? If so I can definitly advice
            > that devloper to
            > write a Tamil database program.
            > >
            > > Are you interested in developing a UTF8 based
            > Tamil
            > database program, I can definitly give you system
            > level advice to
            > do that.
            > >
            >
            > How do you know that you should advice me and not
            > the other
            > way around! You are not the only expert out there.
            >
            > For your information I wrote Tamil database
            > applications more
            > than a year ago! The only problem is that nobody is
            > willing to
            > "pay" for such applications and I cannot get funding
            > to develop it
            > further. Those with "full time" jobs can do research
            > in their spare
            > time, but Tamil software developers have to pay for
            > the time they
            > spend. Therefore instead of continuing development,
            > I have
            > been sitting on it for more than a year.
            >
            > The problem is that there are so many "experts"
            > giving advice
            > out there that those who can really get things done
            > are drowned
            > in the noise they create.
            >
            > > It is a problem that, untill the west begin to use
            > UTF8, it is
            > going to be a difficult task for us.
            > >
            > > We could not do much with 8bit. This trend will
            > continue with
            > 16bit too.
            > >
            > > There is no Tamil specific problem with regard to
            > Unicode. We
            > could not even make it with international support,
            > with multiple
            > languages struggling to make it with UTF8. Do you
            > think you will
            > move an inch on your own?
            > >
            > > Do not refuse to think and to understand the
            > serious
            > consequeces of we taking our own different UTF8
            > system.
            > >
            >
            > I just have a different understanding. My objectives
            > and priorities
            > are different from yours. Within my framework of
            > priorities,
            > encouraging the use of 8 bit encoding is more
            > benefitial.
            >
            > > As for keyboard, I have experimented Tamil99
            > keyboard and it
            > is optimal. Yes I can make it better, but this is
            > not how systems
            > operate.
            >
            > So don't use the word SCIENTIFIC. Just say "in my
            > opinion". It is
            > very misleading.
            >
            > >The study was done by institutions with the backing
            > of
            > Universities.
            > >
            >
            > As I have stated in e-mail after e-mail, just SHOW
            > me the study!
            >
            > Just because it is a university it does not make it
            > a better study.
            > Universities do not have to live with the results of
            > their studies,
            > but rather the developer.
            >
            > > Take the English Typewriter. It was originally
            > designed to slow
            > down the typist as much as possible, because the
            > mechanical
            > parts were jamming to a serious extent. That layout
            > is still used
            > in computing, with character per minutes demand. I
            > hope you
            > understand what a standard system means. If you
            > think you
            > need to chane, work on it but do not try to stop the
            > computing.
            > >
            > > There is no Tamil specific problem with UTF8.
            > > There is a standard keyboard layout known as
            > Tamil99, with a
            > backup system of Romanised phonetis layout.
            > >
            >
            > As I said right from the beginning I do not want to
            > persuade
            > anyone because most of you will come up with this
            > same
            > argument. Check my e-mails. I already know it is a
            > lost cause.
            >
            > The sad thing is nobody is interested, even for
            > intellectual
            > curiosity.
            >
            > But, I do strongly object to the words OPTIMAL and
            > SCIENTIFIC.
            > Just state that Tamil99 is a reasonably efficient
            > standard and
            > that there are more efficient non-standard layouts
            > available.
            >
            > There is no point in trying to improve Tamil if it
            > is built on a
            > foundation of "lies" and "half-truths"!
            >
            > > Srivas
            > >
            > > "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
            > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
            > <sisrivas@y.
            > ..
            > > > wrote:
            > > > Dear Ravin,
            > > >
            > > > Unicode: programmers/developers do not
            > understand the
            > > architecture of Unicode. That is why it is
            > difficult.
            > >
            > > I am amazed at how you come up with these
            > conclusions!
            > How
            > > on earth did you discover this? How did you find
            > out that I do
            > not
            > > understand?
            > >
            > > >Even with the new proposal, the programming will
            > be difficult,
            > > because many does not understand UTF8. There is no
            > tamil
            > > specific difficulties.
            > > >
            > > > With the new proposal, there will be Tamil
            > specific problem,
            > > because no one is there to explain how UTF8 will
            > work for
            > Tamil.
            > > This is also a dangerous trend. Departing away
            > from
            > > international standard for computing, is going for
            > isolation and
            > > hope those under stand the isolation in scientific
            > world can
            > cost
            > > the Tamils.
            > > >
            > >
            > > There is no tamil specific problem here. This is
            > just another
            > way
            > > to express the font coding and does not depart
            > from any
            > > "international standard for computing". Your
            > comments on
            > > "isolation" and "cost the Tamil" are excessively
            > dramatic.
            > >
            > > > There is no Tamil specifi Unicode difficulties.
            > to understand
            > > this one need to understand the Unicode
            > architecture.
            > > >
            > >
            > > Write me a Tamil Unicode database application
            > across all
            > OS's
            > > and platforms and I will follow you to the ends of
            > the earth!
            > >
            > > > As for keyboard, You better write about your
            > ideas.
            >
            === message truncated ===





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          • Ravindran K. Paul
            ... Thank you very much for the offer. It is nice to know that there are some people interested after all these years of trying. The problem I ( and other
            Message 5 of 27 , May 5, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Padmanabhan <padmanan@y...
              > wrote:
              > Hi,
              >
              > I am Padmanabhan from Chennai. I am new to this group.
              > I have few business peoples contacts and also high
              > level decision making people in Tamilnadu government.
              > If you think, it is ok...then we will approach these
              > peoples.
              >
              > We will try.
              >
              > Can you please write me the immediate requirement for
              > this development. I mean funding and infrastructure. I
              > will try my best.
              >

              Thank you very much for the offer. It is nice to know that there are
              some people interested after all these years of trying.

              The problem I ( and other developers ) face are three fold.

              1. To have sufficient funds to sustain the company while
              developing Tamil applications.

              2. To identify Tamil database ( and other ) applications that have
              commercial value and can generate a profit.

              3. To market the products.

              Most of them who are involved in Tamil development are
              generally part timers. Their source of income is not Tamil and
              therefore they do not have to worry about commerical
              implications of the decisions they make. They can make all the
              wrong decisions and still lose nothing.

              Commercial developers on the other hand have to worry about
              support, marketing, warranty, overheads and opportunity cost,
              thus having to be more careful with their decisions.

              My currrent focus is to get a grant or a special software order to
              write a specific database application. This will allow me to earn
              and do R&D at the same time.

              Thank you.

              > Thanks,
              >
              > Padmanabhan.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Regarding this
              >
              >
              > --- "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
              > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
              > > <sisrivas@y...
              > > > wrote:
              > > > Do you know if any UTF8 based database program of
              > > any
              > > language that works? If so I can definitly advice
              > > that devloper to
              > > write a Tamil database program.
              > > >
              > > > Are you interested in developing a UTF8 based
              > > Tamil
              > > database program, I can definitly give you system
              > > level advice to
              > > do that.
              > > >
              > >
              > > How do you know that you should advice me and not
              > > the other
              > > way around! You are not the only expert out there.
              > >
              > > For your information I wrote Tamil database
              > > applications more
              > > than a year ago! The only problem is that nobody is
              > > willing to
              > > "pay" for such applications and I cannot get funding
              > > to develop it
              > > further. Those with "full time" jobs can do research
              > > in their spare
              > > time, but Tamil software developers have to pay for
              > > the time they
              > > spend. Therefore instead of continuing development,
              > > I have
              > > been sitting on it for more than a year.
              > >
              > > The problem is that there are so many "experts"
              > > giving advice
              > > out there that those who can really get things done
              > > are drowned
              > > in the noise they create.
              > >
              > > > It is a problem that, untill the west begin to use
              > > UTF8, it is
              > > going to be a difficult task for us.
              > > >
              > > > We could not do much with 8bit. This trend will
              > > continue with
              > > 16bit too.
              > > >
              > > > There is no Tamil specific problem with regard to
              > > Unicode. We
              > > could not even make it with international support,
              > > with multiple
              > > languages struggling to make it with UTF8. Do you
              > > think you will
              > > move an inch on your own?
              > > >
              > > > Do not refuse to think and to understand the
              > > serious
              > > consequeces of we taking our own different UTF8
              > > system.
              > > >
              > >
              > > I just have a different understanding. My objectives
              > > and priorities
              > > are different from yours. Within my framework of
              > > priorities,
              > > encouraging the use of 8 bit encoding is more
              > > benefitial.
              > >
              > > > As for keyboard, I have experimented Tamil99
              > > keyboard and it
              > > is optimal. Yes I can make it better, but this is
              > > not how systems
              > > operate.
              > >
              > > So don't use the word SCIENTIFIC. Just say "in my
              > > opinion". It is
              > > very misleading.
              > >
              > > >The study was done by institutions with the backing
              > > of
              > > Universities.
              > > >
              > >
              > > As I have stated in e-mail after e-mail, just SHOW
              > > me the study!
              > >
              > > Just because it is a university it does not make it
              > > a better study.
              > > Universities do not have to live with the results of
              > > their studies,
              > > but rather the developer.
              > >
              > > > Take the English Typewriter. It was originally
              > > designed to slow
              > > down the typist as much as possible, because the
              > > mechanical
              > > parts were jamming to a serious extent. That layout
              > > is still used
              > > in computing, with character per minutes demand. I
              > > hope you
              > > understand what a standard system means. If you
              > > think you
              > > need to chane, work on it but do not try to stop the
              > > computing.
              > > >
              > > > There is no Tamil specific problem with UTF8.
              > > > There is a standard keyboard layout known as
              > > Tamil99, with a
              > > backup system of Romanised phonetis layout.
              > > >
              > >
              > > As I said right from the beginning I do not want to
              > > persuade
              > > anyone because most of you will come up with this
              > > same
              > > argument. Check my e-mails. I already know it is a
              > > lost cause.
              > >
              > > The sad thing is nobody is interested, even for
              > > intellectual
              > > curiosity.
              > >
              > > But, I do strongly object to the words OPTIMAL and
              > > SCIENTIFIC.
              > > Just state that Tamil99 is a reasonably efficient
              > > standard and
              > > that there are more efficient non-standard layouts
              > > available.
              > >
              > > There is no point in trying to improve Tamil if it
              > > is built on a
              > > foundation of "lies" and "half-truths"!
              > >
              > > > Srivas
              > > >
              > > > "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
              > > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
              > > <sisrivas@y.
              > > ..
              > > > > wrote:
              > > > > Dear Ravin,
              > > > >
              > > > > Unicode: programmers/developers do not
              > > understand the
              > > > architecture of Unicode. That is why it is
              > > difficult.
              > > >
              > > > I am amazed at how you come up with these
              > > conclusions!
              > > How
              > > > on earth did you discover this? How did you find
              > > out that I do
              > > not
              > > > understand?
              > > >
              > > > >Even with the new proposal, the programming will
              > > be difficult,
              > > > because many does not understand UTF8. There is no
              > > tamil
              > > > specific difficulties.
              > > > >
              > > > > With the new proposal, there will be Tamil
              > > specific problem,
              > > > because no one is there to explain how UTF8 will
              > > work for
              > > Tamil.
              > > > This is also a dangerous trend. Departing away
              > > from
              > > > international standard for computing, is going for
              > > isolation and
              > > > hope those under stand the isolation in scientific
              > > world can
              > > cost
              > > > the Tamils.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > There is no tamil specific problem here. This is
              > > just another
              > > way
              > > > to express the font coding and does not depart
              > > from any
              > > > "international standard for computing". Your
              > > comments on
              > > > "isolation" and "cost the Tamil" are excessively
              > > dramatic.
              > > >
              > > > > There is no Tamil specifi Unicode difficulties.
              > > to understand
              > > > this one need to understand the Unicode
              > > architecture.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > Write me a Tamil Unicode database application
              > > across all
              > > OS's
              > > > and platforms and I will follow you to the ends of
              > > the earth!
              > > >
              > > > > As for keyboard, You better write about your
              > > ideas.
              > >
              > === message truncated ===
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
              > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
            • Sinnathurai Srivas
              Dear Ravindran K. Paul, It is good to know that you are interested in commercial development. However, I do not think you undestand the value of volutary work
              Message 6 of 27 , May 6, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Ravindran K. Paul,

                It is good to know that you are interested in commercial development.

                However, I do not think you undestand the value of volutary work that is being done by many to develop Tamil computing. Tamil computing and internet is far adavnced than many other languages and it is being done by volunteers. There are commercial development running in parallel too.

                I do not understand how you could do a better job, if you are tied by finance. You could make use of the library of developments and use it for your commercial activities. It is essential that people do take commercial approach too. But do not simply blame the others. You are free to use what ever is already done on a free basis.



                Srivas


                "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@...> wrote:
                --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Padmanabhan <padmanan@y...
                > wrote:
                > Hi,
                >
                > I am Padmanabhan from Chennai. I am new to this group.
                > I have few business peoples contacts and also high
                > level decision making people in Tamilnadu government.
                > If you think, it is ok...then we will approach these
                > peoples.
                >
                > We will try.
                >
                > Can you please write me the immediate requirement for
                > this development. I mean funding and infrastructure. I
                > will try my best.
                >

                Thank you very much for the offer. It is nice to know that there are
                some people interested after all these years of trying.

                The problem I ( and other developers ) face are three fold.

                1. To have sufficient funds to sustain the company while
                developing Tamil applications.

                2. To identify Tamil database ( and other ) applications that have
                commercial value and can generate a profit.

                3. To market the products.

                Most of them who are involved in Tamil development are
                generally part timers. Their source of income is not Tamil and
                therefore they do not have to worry about commerical
                implications of the decisions they make. They can make all the
                wrong decisions and still lose nothing.

                Commercial developers on the other hand have to worry about
                support, marketing, warranty, overheads and opportunity cost,
                thus having to be more careful with their decisions.

                My currrent focus is to get a grant or a special software order to
                write a specific database application. This will allow me to earn
                and do R&D at the same time.

                Thank you.

                > Thanks,
                >
                > Padmanabhan.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Regarding this
                >
                >
                > --- "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
                > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
                > > <sisrivas@y...
                > > > wrote:
                > > > Do you know if any UTF8 based database program of
                > > any
                > > language that works? If so I can definitly advice
                > > that devloper to
                > > write a Tamil database program.
                > > >
                > > > Are you interested in developing a UTF8 based
                > > Tamil
                > > database program, I can definitly give you system
                > > level advice to
                > > do that.
                > > >
                > >
                > > How do you know that you should advice me and not
                > > the other
                > > way around! You are not the only expert out there.
                > >
                > > For your information I wrote Tamil database
                > > applications more
                > > than a year ago! The only problem is that nobody is
                > > willing to
                > > "pay" for such applications and I cannot get funding
                > > to develop it
                > > further. Those with "full time" jobs can do research
                > > in their spare
                > > time, but Tamil software developers have to pay for
                > > the time they
                > > spend. Therefore instead of continuing development,
                > > I have
                > > been sitting on it for more than a year.
                > >
                > > The problem is that there are so many "experts"
                > > giving advice
                > > out there that those who can really get things done
                > > are drowned
                > > in the noise they create.
                > >
                > > > It is a problem that, untill the west begin to use
                > > UTF8, it is
                > > going to be a difficult task for us.
                > > >
                > > > We could not do much with 8bit. This trend will
                > > continue with
                > > 16bit too.
                > > >
                > > > There is no Tamil specific problem with regard to
                > > Unicode. We
                > > could not even make it with international support,
                > > with multiple
                > > languages struggling to make it with UTF8. Do you
                > > think you will
                > > move an inch on your own?
                > > >
                > > > Do not refuse to think and to understand the
                > > serious
                > > consequeces of we taking our own different UTF8
                > > system.
                > > >
                > >
                > > I just have a different understanding. My objectives
                > > and priorities
                > > are different from yours. Within my framework of
                > > priorities,
                > > encouraging the use of 8 bit encoding is more
                > > benefitial.
                > >
                > > > As for keyboard, I have experimented Tamil99
                > > keyboard and it
                > > is optimal. Yes I can make it better, but this is
                > > not how systems
                > > operate.
                > >
                > > So don't use the word SCIENTIFIC. Just say "in my
                > > opinion". It is
                > > very misleading.
                > >
                > > >The study was done by institutions with the backing
                > > of
                > > Universities.
                > > >
                > >
                > > As I have stated in e-mail after e-mail, just SHOW
                > > me the study!
                > >
                > > Just because it is a university it does not make it
                > > a better study.
                > > Universities do not have to live with the results of
                > > their studies,
                > > but rather the developer.
                > >
                > > > Take the English Typewriter. It was originally
                > > designed to slow
                > > down the typist as much as possible, because the
                > > mechanical
                > > parts were jamming to a serious extent. That layout
                > > is still used
                > > in computing, with character per minutes demand. I
                > > hope you
                > > understand what a standard system means. If you
                > > think you
                > > need to chane, work on it but do not try to stop the
                > > computing.
                > > >
                > > > There is no Tamil specific problem with UTF8.
                > > > There is a standard keyboard layout known as
                > > Tamil99, with a
                > > backup system of Romanised phonetis layout.
                > > >
                > >
                > > As I said right from the beginning I do not want to
                > > persuade
                > > anyone because most of you will come up with this
                > > same
                > > argument. Check my e-mails. I already know it is a
                > > lost cause.
                > >
                > > The sad thing is nobody is interested, even for
                > > intellectual
                > > curiosity.
                > >
                > > But, I do strongly object to the words OPTIMAL and
                > > SCIENTIFIC.
                > > Just state that Tamil99 is a reasonably efficient
                > > standard and
                > > that there are more efficient non-standard layouts
                > > available.
                > >
                > > There is no point in trying to improve Tamil if it
                > > is built on a
                > > foundation of "lies" and "half-truths"!
                > >
                > > > Srivas
                > > >
                > > > "Ravindran K. Paul" <ravink@p...> wrote:
                > > > --- In tscii@yahoogroups.com, Sinnathurai Srivas
                > > <sisrivas@y.
                > > ..
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > Dear Ravin,
                > > > >
                > > > > Unicode: programmers/developers do not
                > > understand the
                > > > architecture of Unicode. That is why it is
                > > difficult.
                > > >
                > > > I am amazed at how you come up with these
                > > conclusions!
                > > How
                > > > on earth did you discover this? How did you find
                > > out that I do
                > > not
                > > > understand?
                > > >
                > > > >Even with the new proposal, the programming will
                > > be difficult,
                > > > because many does not understand UTF8. There is no
                > > tamil
                > > > specific difficulties.
                > > > >
                > > > > With the new proposal, there will be Tamil
                > > specific problem,
                > > > because no one is there to explain how UTF8 will
                > > work for
                > > Tamil.
                > > > This is also a dangerous trend. Departing away
                > > from
                > > > international standard for computing, is going for
                > > isolation and
                > > > hope those under stand the isolation in scientific
                > > world can
                > > cost
                > > > the Tamils.
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > There is no tamil specific problem here. This is
                > > just another
                > > way
                > > > to express the font coding and does not depart
                > > from any
                > > > "international standard for computing". Your
                > > comments on
                > > > "isolation" and "cost the Tamil" are excessively
                > > dramatic.
                > > >
                > > > > There is no Tamil specifi Unicode difficulties.
                > > to understand
                > > > this one need to understand the Unicode
                > > architecture.
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > Write me a Tamil Unicode database application
                > > across all
                > > OS's
                > > > and platforms and I will follow you to the ends of
                > > the earth!
                > > >
                > > > > As for keyboard, You better write about your
                > > ideas.
                > >
                > === message truncated ===
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
                > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ravi K
                ... Dear Srivas, ... It is valuable, but I also know that what takes two years for volunteers can be done commercially in 3 months. To look at it another way,
                Message 7 of 27 , May 9, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  At 02:52 AM 07/05/04, you wrote:
                  >Dear Ravindran K. Paul,

                  Dear Srivas,

                  >It is good to know that you are interested in commercial development.
                  >
                  >However, I do not think you undestand the value of volutary work that is
                  >being done by many to develop Tamil computing.

                  It is valuable, but I also know that what takes two years for volunteers
                  can be done commercially in 3 months. To look at it another way, volunteers
                  actually "slow" down the development of Tamil, by diverting funding elsewhere.

                  I am not talking about myself here. I am a good programmer, but not that
                  good. There are experts out there who can do all this in a
                  matter of months, if they are paid to do so. The problem is that it is
                  unprofitable to hire these people to write Tamil software.

                  Many seem to confuse content with development. I really haven't seen any
                  serious development by volunteers yet. Can you point out which technology
                  developments you are talking about.

                  >Tamil computing and internet is far adavnced than many other languages and
                  >it is being done by volunteers.

                  I keep hearing this statement again and again, very often at public
                  gatherings. Where on earth do you get this fact from. From my observation,
                  I have found this to be false.

                  Can somebody please point out the documented evidence for this so that I
                  can be proven wrong?

                  >There are commercial development running in parallel too.
                  >
                  >I do not understand how you could do a better job, if you are tied by
                  >finance.

                  If you haven't figured it out yet, the primary incentive for development in
                  all fields be it health, transport, sports and of course software is
                  finance. What finance does is that it speeds up development.

                  This is where ( in my opinion ) Tamil faces a problem. Therefore Tamil lags
                  far behind.

                  >You could make use of the library of developments and use it for your
                  >commercial activities.

                  What is this you keep talking about?

                  >It is essential that people do take commercial approach too. But do not
                  >simply blame the others. You are free to use what ever is already done on
                  >a free basis.

                  Tamils seem to love free software. Therefore most users turn to these
                  people for advice and help. I have no problems with this.

                  But, if the facts given out by such people are "opinions" disguised as
                  research, then I find it a problem.

                  Before I did my research on keyboards, I had made a few assumptions. What I
                  learnt from the research ( statistical and field testing ) was that I was
                  wrong on several important issues although the assumptions seemed logical.

                  The point of proper research is to find out the truth, and not to prove
                  that one is right!

                  People who don't do this can still prove that the sun goes around the earth.

                  I still haven't found any documented evidence to all that you have said, so
                  I cannot really rely on the information you provide. I would be happy to be
                  proven wrong if you can point it out to me.

                  >
                  >
                  >Srivas

                  Regards,

                  Ravindran K. Paul
                  http://www.thunaivan.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sinnathurai Srivas
                  see http://www.infitt.org/tamilnet97/doc-draft/keyboard-layout.html for the initial research. Microsoft will do it for you, if it is a viable business. Till
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 10, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    see
                    http://www.infitt.org/tamilnet97/doc-draft/keyboard-layout.html
                    for the initial research.

                    Microsoft will do it for you, if it is a viable business. Till that time we need to do standardising and bare necessasities on a voluntary basis. Linux will also do it free. IBM will also do it for us.

                    You need to take a statistic using Bamini, TSC, TAB and Unicode Tamil to do your comparision of Language usage. Ask Google, for a start.

                    Srivas





                    Ravi K <ravi@...> wrote:
                    At 02:52 AM 07/05/04, you wrote:
                    >Dear Ravindran K. Paul,

                    Dear Srivas,

                    >It is good to know that you are interested in commercial development.
                    >
                    >However, I do not think you undestand the value of volutary work that is
                    >being done by many to develop Tamil computing.

                    It is valuable, but I also know that what takes two years for volunteers
                    can be done commercially in 3 months. To look at it another way, volunteers
                    actually "slow" down the development of Tamil, by diverting funding elsewhere.

                    I am not talking about myself here. I am a good programmer, but not that
                    good. There are experts out there who can do all this in a
                    matter of months, if they are paid to do so. The problem is that it is
                    unprofitable to hire these people to write Tamil software.

                    Many seem to confuse content with development. I really haven't seen any
                    serious development by volunteers yet. Can you point out which technology
                    developments you are talking about.

                    >Tamil computing and internet is far adavnced than many other languages and
                    >it is being done by volunteers.

                    I keep hearing this statement again and again, very often at public
                    gatherings. Where on earth do you get this fact from. From my observation,
                    I have found this to be false.

                    Can somebody please point out the documented evidence for this so that I
                    can be proven wrong?

                    >There are commercial development running in parallel too.
                    >
                    >I do not understand how you could do a better job, if you are tied by
                    >finance.

                    If you haven't figured it out yet, the primary incentive for development in
                    all fields be it health, transport, sports and of course software is
                    finance. What finance does is that it speeds up development.

                    This is where ( in my opinion ) Tamil faces a problem. Therefore Tamil lags
                    far behind.

                    >You could make use of the library of developments and use it for your
                    >commercial activities.

                    What is this you keep talking about?

                    >It is essential that people do take commercial approach too. But do not
                    >simply blame the others. You are free to use what ever is already done on
                    >a free basis.

                    Tamils seem to love free software. Therefore most users turn to these
                    people for advice and help. I have no problems with this.

                    But, if the facts given out by such people are "opinions" disguised as
                    research, then I find it a problem.

                    Before I did my research on keyboards, I had made a few assumptions. What I
                    learnt from the research ( statistical and field testing ) was that I was
                    wrong on several important issues although the assumptions seemed logical.

                    The point of proper research is to find out the truth, and not to prove
                    that one is right!

                    People who don't do this can still prove that the sun goes around the earth.

                    I still haven't found any documented evidence to all that you have said, so
                    I cannot really rely on the information you provide. I would be happy to be
                    proven wrong if you can point it out to me.

                    >
                    >
                    >Srivas

                    Regards,

                    Ravindran K. Paul
                    http://www.thunaivan.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ravi K
                    ... That is not research, but a statement of opinion. There is no data backing the claims! As I said, similarly I can prove the sun goes round the earth. ... I
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 10, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 02:52 AM 11/05/04, you wrote:

                      >see
                      >http://www.infitt.org/tamilnet97/doc-draft/keyboard-layout.html
                      >for the initial research.
                      >

                      That is not research, but a statement of opinion. There is no data
                      backing the claims!

                      As I said, similarly I can prove the sun goes round the earth.

                      >Microsoft will do it for you, if it is a viable business. Till that time
                      >we need to do standardising and bare necessasities on a voluntary basis.
                      >Linux will also do it free. IBM will also do it for us.
                      >

                      I am not sure what you are saying here. What will they do?

                      >You need to take a statistic using Bamini, TSC, TAB and Unicode Tamil to
                      >do your comparision of Language usage. Ask Google, for a start.

                      That is your job. You are the one stating that "your" work is the future and
                      everthing else is outdated.

                      Bottomline : You still haven't given me a shred of evidence to your claims.

                      >
                      >Srivas
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Ravi K <ravi@...> wrote:
                      >At 02:52 AM 07/05/04, you wrote:
                      > >Dear Ravindran K. Paul,
                      >
                      >Dear Srivas,
                      >
                      > >It is good to know that you are interested in commercial development.
                      > >
                      > >However, I do not think you undestand the value of volutary work that is
                      > >being done by many to develop Tamil computing.
                      >
                      >It is valuable, but I also know that what takes two years for volunteers
                      >can be done commercially in 3 months. To look at it another way, volunteers
                      >actually "slow" down the development of Tamil, by diverting funding elsewhere.
                      >
                      >I am not talking about myself here. I am a good programmer, but not that
                      >good. There are experts out there who can do all this in a
                      >matter of months, if they are paid to do so. The problem is that it is
                      >unprofitable to hire these people to write Tamil software.
                      >
                      >Many seem to confuse content with development. I really haven't seen any
                      >serious development by volunteers yet. Can you point out which technology
                      >developments you are talking about.
                      >
                      > >Tamil computing and internet is far adavnced than many other languages and
                      > >it is being done by volunteers.
                      >
                      >I keep hearing this statement again and again, very often at public
                      >gatherings. Where on earth do you get this fact from. From my observation,
                      >I have found this to be false.
                      >
                      >Can somebody please point out the documented evidence for this so that I
                      >can be proven wrong?
                      >
                      > >There are commercial development running in parallel too.
                      > >
                      > >I do not understand how you could do a better job, if you are tied by
                      > >finance.
                      >
                      >If you haven't figured it out yet, the primary incentive for development in
                      >all fields be it health, transport, sports and of course software is
                      >finance. What finance does is that it speeds up development.
                      >
                      >This is where ( in my opinion ) Tamil faces a problem. Therefore Tamil lags
                      >far behind.
                      >
                      > >You could make use of the library of developments and use it for your
                      > >commercial activities.
                      >
                      >What is this you keep talking about?
                      >
                      > >It is essential that people do take commercial approach too. But do not
                      > >simply blame the others. You are free to use what ever is already done on
                      > >a free basis.
                      >
                      >Tamils seem to love free software. Therefore most users turn to these
                      >people for advice and help. I have no problems with this.
                      >
                      >But, if the facts given out by such people are "opinions" disguised as
                      >research, then I find it a problem.
                      >
                      >Before I did my research on keyboards, I had made a few assumptions. What I
                      >learnt from the research ( statistical and field testing ) was that I was
                      >wrong on several important issues although the assumptions seemed logical.
                      >
                      >The point of proper research is to find out the truth, and not to prove
                      >that one is right!
                      >
                      >People who don't do this can still prove that the sun goes around the earth.
                      >
                      >I still haven't found any documented evidence to all that you have said, so
                      >I cannot really rely on the information you provide. I would be happy to be
                      >proven wrong if you can point it out to me.
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >Srivas
                      >
                      >Regards,
                      >
                      >Ravindran K. Paul
                      >http://www.thunaivan.com
                      >
                      >
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                      Regards,

                      Ravindran K. Paul
                      http://www.thunaivan.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Shruthi Parvathi R
                      Tamizha, Time wasted in discussing non-issues like this is time not available for other valid issues. Your valuable time cannot and should not be wasted this
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 12, 2004
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                        Tamizha,
                        Time wasted in discussing non-issues like this is time not available
                        for other valid issues. Your valuable time cannot and should not be
                        wasted this way.

                        Thiru Srivas,
                        With reference to the following page (incidently the eye of this storm)
                        http://www.araichchi.com/kanini/Tamil_Keybord_2.htm

                        needless importance is given to ITRAN. Such importance need not be
                        given to a dead standard.

                        Regards,
                        Ravi Ganesh
                      • Sinnathurai Srivas
                        Dear Ravi Ganesh, I ll check and amend as necessary. Srivas Shruthi Parvathi R wrote: Tamizha, Time wasted in discussing non-issues
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 17, 2004
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                          Dear Ravi Ganesh,



                          I'll check and amend as necessary.



                          Srivas


                          Shruthi Parvathi R <shruthiparvathi@...> wrote:
                          Tamizha,
                          Time wasted in discussing non-issues like this is time not available
                          for other valid issues. Your valuable time cannot and should not be
                          wasted this way.

                          Thiru Srivas,
                          With reference to the following page (incidently the eye of this storm)
                          http://www.araichchi.com/kanini/Tamil_Keybord_2.htm

                          needless importance is given to ITRAN. Such importance need not be
                          given to a dead standard.

                          Regards,
                          Ravi Ganesh




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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ravi K
                          ... Dear Ravi Ganesh, How can time be wasted in wanting to know more or correcting what is wrong? How did you come to the conclusion that this is a non-issue?
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 17, 2004
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                            At 05:26 AM 13/05/04, you wrote:

                            >Tamizha,
                            >Time wasted in discussing non-issues like this is time not available
                            >for other valid issues. Your valuable time cannot and should not be
                            >wasted this way.

                            Dear Ravi Ganesh,

                            How can time be wasted in wanting to know more or correcting what is wrong?

                            How did you come to the conclusion that this is a non-issue?

                            If it is an issue to me, then it is also an issue to others like me. So how
                            did it become a non-issue?

                            So far I still haven't seen a shred of evidence on this issue. What is
                            really a waste of time is accepting "facts" without evidence and not in
                            discussing so called "non-issues"!

                            If you think it is a waste of time, ignore it! But don't stop others from
                            "wasting" their valuable time because in your "expert" opinion it is not
                            important.

                            Non-issues will die down of their own accord.
                            They don't need your help!

                            >Thiru Srivas,
                            >With reference to the following page (incidently the eye of this storm)
                            >http://www.araichchi.com/kanini/Tamil_Keybord_2.htm
                            >
                            >needless importance is given to ITRAN. Such importance need not be
                            >given to a dead standard.
                            >
                            >Regards,
                            >Ravi Ganesh

                            Regards,

                            Ravindran K. Paul
                            http://www.thunaivan.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sinnathurai Srivas
                            Dear Ravi K, It is ITRAN that is being pointed as non-issue and not other matters. Hope you noticed this in the mail of Ravi Ganesan. Srivas Ravi K
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 18, 2004
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                              Dear Ravi K,

                              It is ITRAN that is being pointed as non-issue and not other matters. Hope you noticed this in the mail of Ravi Ganesan.

                              Srivas

                              Ravi K <ravi@...> wrote:
                              At 05:26 AM 13/05/04, you wrote:

                              >Tamizha,
                              >Time wasted in discussing non-issues like this is time not available
                              >for other valid issues. Your valuable time cannot and should not be
                              >wasted this way.

                              Dear Ravi Ganesh,

                              How can time be wasted in wanting to know more or correcting what is wrong?

                              How did you come to the conclusion that this is a non-issue?

                              If it is an issue to me, then it is also an issue to others like me. So how
                              did it become a non-issue?

                              So far I still haven't seen a shred of evidence on this issue. What is
                              really a waste of time is accepting "facts" without evidence and not in
                              discussing so called "non-issues"!

                              If you think it is a waste of time, ignore it! But don't stop others from
                              "wasting" their valuable time because in your "expert" opinion it is not
                              important.

                              Non-issues will die down of their own accord.
                              They don't need your help!

                              >Thiru Srivas,
                              >With reference to the following page (incidently the eye of this storm)
                              >http://www.araichchi.com/kanini/Tamil_Keybord_2.htm
                              >
                              >needless importance is given to ITRAN. Such importance need not be
                              >given to a dead standard.
                              >
                              >Regards,
                              >Ravi Ganesh

                              Regards,

                              Ravindran K. Paul
                              http://www.thunaivan.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                            • karthik103@sancharnet.in
                              tscii-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ... This message was sent using NWebmail, BSNL s Webmail Program
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 18, 2004
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                              • Ravi K
                                ... From my understanding the non-issue was directed at the discussion. There were two separate messages, one to Tamizha and the other to Srivas. ITRANS was
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 18, 2004
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                                  At 05:50 AM 19/05/04, you wrote:

                                  >Dear Ravi K,
                                  >
                                  >It is ITRAN that is being pointed as non-issue and not other matters. Hope
                                  >you noticed this in the mail of Ravi Ganesan.
                                  >

                                  From my understanding the "non-issue" was directed at the discussion.
                                  There were two separate messages, one to Tamizha and the other to Srivas.
                                  ITRANS was only mentioned in the message addressed to you.

                                  >Srivas
                                  >
                                  >Ravi K <ravi@...> wrote:
                                  >At 05:26 AM 13/05/04, you wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Tamizha,
                                  > >Time wasted in discussing non-issues like this is time not available
                                  > >for other valid issues. Your valuable time cannot and should not be
                                  > >wasted this way.
                                  >
                                  >Dear Ravi Ganesh,
                                  >
                                  >How can time be wasted in wanting to know more or correcting what is wrong?
                                  >
                                  >How did you come to the conclusion that this is a non-issue?
                                  >
                                  >If it is an issue to me, then it is also an issue to others like me. So how
                                  >did it become a non-issue?
                                  >
                                  >So far I still haven't seen a shred of evidence on this issue. What is
                                  >really a waste of time is accepting "facts" without evidence and not in
                                  >discussing so called "non-issues"!
                                  >
                                  >If you think it is a waste of time, ignore it! But don't stop others from
                                  >"wasting" their valuable time because in your "expert" opinion it is not
                                  >important.
                                  >
                                  >Non-issues will die down of their own accord.
                                  >They don't need your help!
                                  >
                                  > >Thiru Srivas,
                                  > >With reference to the following page (incidently the eye of this storm)
                                  > >http://www.araichchi.com/kanini/Tamil_Keybord_2.htm
                                  > >
                                  > >needless importance is given to ITRAN. Such importance need not be
                                  > >given to a dead standard.
                                  > >
                                  > >Regards,
                                  > >Ravi Ganesh
                                  >
                                  >Regards,
                                  >
                                  >Ravindran K. Paul
                                  >http://www.thunaivan.com
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  Regards,

                                  Ravindran K. Paul
                                  http://www.thunaivan.com


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                                • Ravindran K. Paul
                                  Dear members, I was at the Tamizha launch in Malaysia yesterday and heard two comments. One from a speaker that tamil keyboards are still being discussed and
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 23, 2004
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                                    Dear members,

                                    I was at the Tamizha launch in Malaysia yesterday and heard
                                    two comments. One from a speaker that tamil keyboards are
                                    still being discussed and another a presonal comment from a
                                    forum member that he noted this discussion on keyboards.

                                    If one were to read this thread carefully, one will discover that
                                    this is not a discussion on keyboards. You won't find a single
                                    reference by me promoting any keyboard layout, nor will you find
                                    any request to revisit the keyboard issue.

                                    This discussion to me is about "making statements without
                                    supporting evidence". To put it in other words, the "keyboard
                                    layout" is the symptom, but "apathy" is the issue.

                                    Thank you.
                                  • J SenthilKumar
                                     can anyone give me keyboard layouts for inscript, phonetic and typewritter apart from anjal and mylai for keyman version 5.0 and 6.0. thank you. J.S.K
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 30, 2004
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                                       can anyone give me keyboard layouts for inscript, phonetic and typewritter apart from anjal and mylai for keyman version 5.0 and 6.0.

                                      thank you.
                                      J.S.K

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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