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RE: [TdC] Re: [carib-territories] Re: UN Cries Freedom to Contented Colonies

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  • MossyTrail@cs.com
    ... Funny you should mention Hawaii. There is in Hawaii a movement for decolonization (read: Hawaiian independence), mostly within the Native Hawaiian
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 4, 2004
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      Ian Turner <ian.turner@...> wrote:

      >On a separate note, how does the U.N. decide how far away something must be before it counts as a territory? Or is it based on whether they vote in national elections? Cases I am thinking of are why Spain's two North African enclaves do not count. Ditto the Canaries and Madeira, or Hawai'i. Thinking about it, I suppose it is the voting thing. (French Polynesia and French Guiana were also not on the list, were they? They are overseas departments, right?) That seems sensible in a way, but odd in another. What if one of those places did not want to vote in the colonial power's elections, and wanted elections instead?

      Funny you should mention Hawaii. There is in Hawaii a movement for "decolonization" (read: Hawaiian independence), mostly within the Native Hawaiian population. Realistically, it is not going to happen; the Hawaiian islands are too strategically important to the U.S. -- hence the extensive military presence, which is one is the secessionists' main objections in the first place. When Hawaii was an independent kingdom, the strategic value of Pearl Harbor was the reason the U.S. wanted the islands. Now, there are Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines bases on Oahu, as well as military installations of various kinds on Kauai, the Big Island, Midway, and maybe others, plus Kahoolawe's former exclusive use as a bombing range.

      Just how big is the independence movement? That I do not know.

      Jason Hernandez
      Naturalist-at-Large
    • Spike Gomes
      ... It s at about a couple thousand hard core folks who refuse to have anything to do with the federal government and tend to squat of federal and state land
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 4, 2004
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        At 09:45 PM 6/4/04 -0400, you wrote:

        >Just how big is the independence movement? That I do not know.
        It's at about a couple thousand hard core folks who refuse to have anything
        to do with the federal government and tend to squat of federal and state
        land with maybe about 20,000 or so sympathsizers of varying degrees of
        fervency, including myself. They tend to be very marginal in Hawaii except
        in certain cultural areas such as hula halaus and old style homesteaders.
        Despite being only a minority of the native Hawaiian population, many of
        the famous Hawaiian musicians tend to be lukewarm supporters of the movement.
        "Had Alexandria triumphed and Not Rome, the extravagant and muddles stories
        that I have summarized here would be coherent, majestic, and perfectly
        ordinary." -- Jorge Luis Borges (on the Gnostics)
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