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Re: AW: [TdC] TdC a dependency of St. Helena

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  • Bob Conrich
    ... Ascension was made a Dependency of St. Helena in November of 1922. Tristan wasn t added until 1938. ... Great story! My previous information came from
    Message 1 of 9 , May 9, 2004
      Schaub wrote:

      > Do you have an idea what happened in November 1922 ? - since this date is
      > also mentioned in the same context.

      Ascension was made a Dependency of St. Helena in November of 1922.
      Tristan wasn't added until 1938.

      > Just by the way, as far as I know, the only Germans sighted off Tristan were
      > the ones on the vessel "Schwabenland" who supplied mining equipment to the
      > Antarctic, with the aim to establish a "Shangri-la" for the "Fuehrer".
      > Neu-Schwabenland was supposed to be the name for the new colony, making up
      > for the "unjust" loss of our colonies after WWI. The "Fuehrer" himself
      > thought this was a crazy idea, but did not prevent this nonsense happening,
      > since it would have been disastrous for the enthusiasm of the people
      > involved. The spiritual backing came from the "Thule Society" which claimed
      > that the Arians, prior to the Ice Age, descended from Heaven to the South
      > Pole - the poles being the energetic connection between Earth and Heaven.
      > Later, when it became colder in the Antarctic, they dug a tunnel and emerged
      > in Tibet, from where they spread to bless this world. As far as I know, the
      > "Schwabenland" preferred to land on Gough Island, rather than Tristan, and
      > on Kerguelen.

      Great story!

      My previous information came from Schreier and Lavarello-Schreier's
      recent book, "Tristan da Cunha," page 20:

      "World War II approached and the British government assessed
      the possibility of an open sea war in the South Atlantic
      Ocean, particularly after the German battle ship Graf Spee
      and German U-boats were sighted off the Tristan coast.
      Immediate measures were taken and the Tristan group was
      declared a dependency of St Helena in 1938."

      I think there's something wrong here. The Graf Spee was commissioned
      in 1936 and didn't leave for the South Atlantic until 21 August 1939.

      > There are still doubts remaining - if you permit - whether it is so easy to
      > say it was due to the Germans in 1938. Hadn't we just agreed in Munich, with
      > dear Chamberlain, to remain "peaceful"?

      Many promises were made by many people and countries in the late
      1930s. Not everyone believed all of them. It is not different
      today. Does everyone in the UK believe everything Mr. Blair
      says?

      I can find no reliable reference as to why Tristan was made a
      Dependency in 1938. It had been regarded as British for many
      years, so this seems like just an administrative change. The
      Colonial Office was always fond of consolidating islands and
      people into groups, for "administrative convenience." Having
      done this with my own island, in fact, led to the Anguilla
      Revolution in 1967. They tried for 13 years to put Anguilla
      back together with St. Kitts and Nevis. In 1980 they gave up,
      which is why Anguilla is the newest, and I'm sure the last,
      British colony. But this is the wrong list for Caribbean
      stories.

      > And the British garrison, to my
      > knowledge, was established only in 1942. Historians to the front!

      In 1939 the Admiral Graf Spee destroyed nine British ships
      and stayed at sea in the South Atlantic for four months by
      refueling at sea from a tanker. The need for a German
      refueling base in the South Atlantic should have seemed
      obvious to both the British and the Germans, so why did the
      British not act until 1942 (yes, Wolfgang, you are correct)
      to establish a garrison in Tristan? And what could this tiny
      garrison do if the Germans decided to put their base on Gough
      Island, like the Schwabenlanders wanted to do?

      In view of the attempts in 1938 to seek a diplomatic solution
      to the German military buildup, I hardly think the British
      government would have announced the real reason for making
      Tristan at St. Helena Dependency.


      Bob Conrich
      Anguilla
      British West Indies


      > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      > Von: Bob Conrich [mailto:bob@...]
      > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2004 23:52
      > An: tristan-da-cunha@yahoogroups.com
      > Betreff: Re: [TdC] TdC a dependency of St. Helena
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > Well actually, Wolfgang, it was in 1938 and your
      > country, for better or for worse, was responsible
      > for this intrusion on the peaceful life of the
      > Tristanians. When elements of the Kriegsmarine
      > were sighted off the coast of Tristan, the British
      > became concerned that the German Navy might find
      > the island useful as a submarine refueling base,
      > and be thus able to better attack Allied shipping
      > in the South Atlantic. Tristan was made a
      > Dependency of St. Helena, and a British Garrison
      > was posted there until the end of the war.
      >
      >
      > Bob Conrich
      > Anguilla
      > British West Indies
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >>Hi,
      >>
      >>Can anybody explain to me, please, when TdC was associated with St.
      >
      > Helena.
      >
      >>November 1922 is mentioned somewhere in the www, and 1938. Perhaps either
      >>date is right, if the process was carried out step-wise. (?)
      >>
      >>Thanks and best wishes,
      >>
      >>Wolfgang
      >>
      >>Wolfgang Schaub from Germany
    • Shirley McGreal
      My name is Shirley McGreal and I work for nonhuman primates (see www.ippl.org) but I have a special love for penguins and am totally disgusted that the
      Message 2 of 9 , May 10, 2004
        My name is Shirley McGreal and I work for nonhuman
        primates (see www.ippl.org) but I have a special love
        for penguins and am totally disgusted that the
        penguins of Nightingale Island, where they are doing
        no harm to anyone, are being grabbed by greedy
        wildlife traders. I should appreciate any help in
        trying to stop this and should like you to suggest
        what else can be done besides what is being done by
        Sahabat Alam Malaysia and the Captive Animal Welfare
        Society. Wjat is the earth coming to when scummy
        animal dealers can strike at the remotest corners of
        our globe?

        ACTION ALERT FROM SAHABAT ALAM MALAYSIA (SAM)

        Sahabat Alam Malaysia (SAM) appeals for letters re:
        the capture of Rockhopper Penguins for zoos in Asia to
        the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

        __________________________________________________

        In December last year 20 penguins of the Rockhopper
        species were flown in from Johannesburg to their new
        home at Underwater World in Pulau Langkawi,Malaysia.

        Costing RM26 600 each excluding insurance and shipping
        charges, the penguins were acquired through a South
        African wildlife dealer John Visser who has in his
        possession 146 Rockhopper Penguins.

        These penguins were captured from Nightingale
        Island, part of the UK Overseas Territory of Tristan
        da Cunha in the South Atlantic. Permission for
        capture was granted by the Administrator of Tristan
        and the British Foreign Office. These birds were
        being captured for captive breeding purposes in
        foreign zoos and aquariums. Although 73 pairs were
        taken from an estimated population of approximately
        50,000 penguins, Sahabat Alam Malaysia believes that
        no birds or animals should be caught from the wild
        for zoos and aquarium trade. These business entities
        exist purely for self-profits and personal gains at
        the expense of the world�s wildlife.

        SAM is deeply distressed to learn that these
        penguins will be sent to zoos in Asia. The shocking
        truth is that zoos and aquariums in Asia are totally
        lacking in their concern for captive wildlife where
        they live under conditions of psychological stress
        with lack of complexity and facilities necessary to
        fulfil basic instincts and desire.

        In capturing these penguins from the wild, no thought
        has been given to the stress they have to undergo from
        the moment of capture and transportation until the
        country of destination. Sad to say, four penguins
        have died either during transport to South Africa or
        shortly after arrival at Visser�s aquarium.

        Our concern now is to see that the remaining wild
        penguins at Visser�s Shark Aquarium do not end up in
        captivity in zoos and aquariums or end up in the
        hands of some private dealers like John Visser. We
        would rather see the remaining penguins returned to
        their original habitat.

        SAM urges you to send emails or letters to the
        Foreign & Commonwealth Office expressing your deep
        displeasure at the capture of the Rockhoppers from the

        wild for zoos and aquarium in Asia, and that you
        would like to see proper guidelines governing wildlife
        in Tristan da Cunha.

        Send your strong protest to:
        Mr. Ben Boddy
        Desk Officer Tristan da Cunha
        Foreign and Commonwealth Office
        Overseas Territories Department
        South Atlantic Section
        WH3.411
        London SW1A 2AH
        E-mail: ben.boddy@... and kindly forward a
        copy of your email/messages to SAM.

        Thank you.

        S M Mohd Idris
        President
        Sahabat Alam Malaysia
        9 Solok Mas
        11600 Penang
        Tel: 04-6596930 Fax: 04-6596931

        Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:29:22 +0000
        From: Dave Neale <dneale@...>
        Subject: Rockhopper Penguins

        Around 150 Rockhopper penguins were recently captured
        from the wild on the islands of Tristan de Cunha in
        the South Atlantic. These islands are UK territory and
        permission was granted for the capture by the Tristan
        administration and UK government. The South African
        government gave permission to a S African wildlife
        dealer to take them into S Africa where they are
        currently held at his aquarium.

        Unfortunately as this plan was kept secret information
        did not leak out until it was too late but the capture
        was criticised by bird conservation groups such as
        Birdlife and the RSPB in the UK. The Captive Animals'
        Protection Society (CAPS), a UK organisation is now
        looking into this issue further. We have discovered
        that most of the penguins will be sold to zoos
        in Asia. Some will stay with the S African aquarium
        for breeding, some will go to a German zoo and the
        rest will go to:

        Underwater World Langkawi - Pantai Cenang, Malaysia
        Dalian Sun Asia Ocean World - Xinghai Bay Tourism
        Compound, Dalian, China
        Shanghai Ocean Aquarium - China
        Akita Prefectural Oga Aquarium - Ojika-Shi, Japan
        Nanki Shirahama Adventure World - Japan

        If anyone has any information on any of these
        aquariums (such as their conditions, criticisms etc)
        we would appreciate this information. We want to
        embarrass those people who have allowed 150 animals to
        be taken from the wild to live in captivity. Although
        classed as 'vulnerable' these penguins were
        not being threatened on the islands and were not
        causing a problem. This was simply a commercial
        business.

        Any information can be sent direct to CAPS at
        info@...

        Craig Redmond
        Campaigns Officer
        Captive Animals' Protection Society
        PO Box 573, Preston, PR1 9WW, UK
        Phone/Fax: 0845 330 3911 (Direct line 0845 456 9381)
        info@...
        www.captiveanimals.org







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      • Bob Conrich
        ... 26,600 Malaysian Riggits = about 3937 British Pounds. Bob
        Message 3 of 9 , May 11, 2004
          Shirley McGreal wrote:

          > Costing RM26 600 each excluding insurance and shipping
          > charges...



          26,600 Malaysian Riggits = about 3937 British Pounds.

          Bob
        • Bob Hails
          Shirley-- About those non-human primates you work for--are they good bosses? I ve had some in the past that were real apes. (Sorry, I couldn t resist.) --Bob
          Message 4 of 9 , May 12, 2004
            Shirley--

            About those non-human primates you work for--are they good bosses? I've had
            some in the past that were real apes.

            (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

            --Bob Hails


            ---------------------------------------------------------
            Message: 1
            Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:17:32 -0700 (PDT)
            From: Shirley McGreal <shirleymcgreal@...>
            Subject: Please save Nightingale Island's penguins - an appeal from Malaysia

            My name is Shirley McGreal and I work for nonhuman primates (see www.ippl.org)
            but I have a special love for penguins and am totally disgusted that the
            penguins of Nightingale Island, where they are doing no harm to anyone, are
            being grabbed by greedy wildlife traders. I should appreciate any help in
            trying to stop this and should like you to suggest what else can be done
            besides what is being done by Sahabat Alam Malaysia and the Captive Animal
            Welfare Society. Wjat is the earth coming to when scummy animal dealers can
            strike at the remotest corners of our globe?
          • Shirley McGreal
            Bob, I am my own boss as I founded my primate group 31 years ago and still run it! Seriously, what can we do to save those poor rockhopper penguins? I had a
            Message 5 of 9 , May 13, 2004
              Bob, I am my own boss as I founded my primate group 31
              years ago and still run it! Seriously, what can we do
              to save those poor rockhopper penguins? I had a friend
              who sailed several days from South Africa to Tristan
              some years ago ---- but the weather didn't permit a
              landing. I hate it that there seems to be no safe
              place anywhere in our world for our precious wildlife
              and hope that Tristan authorities (who are they?) can
              stop this nonsense and leave the poor penguins alone.
              Would the poor birds have to go by ship? I assume
              there's no air strip or anything like that. I'd also
              like to hear from anybody about any aspect of these
              islands' wildlife. Shirley McGreal


              --- Bob Hails <hails@...> wrote:
              > Shirley--
              >
              > About those non-human primates you work for--are
              > they good bosses? I've had
              > some in the past that were real apes.
              >
              > (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
              >
              > --Bob Hails
              >




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            • Diane Mew
              Dear Shirley, It is my understanding that only 500 penguins left Nightingale, and I think they were sold originally to a South African company. There are some
              Message 6 of 9 , May 14, 2004
                Dear Shirley,
                      It is my understanding that only 500 penguins left Nightingale, and I think they were sold originally to a South African company. There are some excellent penguin parks in South Africa - after all the South Africans were all so involved in cleaning the birds after a tragic oil spill, so most of the country loves penguins. So the people of Tristan probably assumed that that was where their birds would end up - and that is not a bad life. What happened after that I am not sure, so I will not comment.
                     Now about Tristan da Cunha. It is the loneliest inhabited island in the world, and about 300 people live there. It is governed by Britain, but has an island council of about 8 people, including the British Administrator - who is there on a 3-year contract. The island is mainly self-sufficient - just as well as Britain doesn't care much about its last remaining bits of Empire. It supports itself on revenue from fishing (mainly lobster) and postage stamps. The Tristan da Cunha group also consists of Inaccessible Island (pretty much what its name says) and Nightingale. Nightingale Island is uninhabited except for some huts used by the Tristan Islanders. The island is home to millions of Great Shearwaters and quite literally thousands of rockhoppers. The Tristan islanders go over to the island to collect guano for their potato patches. At one time they also killed a few shearwaters for their oil, as Tristan had no other form of lighting. Now, of course, there is electricity provided by the fish packing plant, so they go over to Nightingale just for a bit of a holiday.
                    You may have heard of the terrible hurricane that did so much damage to the island two years ago. Nearly every roof in the village was blown away, all their huts out at the potato patches, and all the huts on Nightingale. The village hall was nearly compleyely demolished, and much valuable equipment in their little hospital was destroyed or blown out to sea when the roof blew off. Britain was not very generous, although all of us who know and love the island gave as generously as we could, especially those people in the Falkland Islands. The islanders already take on a lot of responsibility for protesting the yellow-billed albatross that nest on Tristan, and also the rare Tristan bunting. I doubt whether they will even consider selling any more penguins even if the British government suggests it (anything so as not to have to spend money on the island), but some how everybody in the rest of the world has got all steamed up about this, when so many worse things are happening to animals and their habitat all over the world. In fact, the rest of the world could learn a lot about the way the Tristan Islanders look after their small, dangerous little part of the world.   Yours,  Diane Mew, Toronto.

                Shirley McGreal wrote:

                 Bob, I am my own boss as I founded my primate group 31
                years ago and still run it! Seriously, what can we do
                to save those poor rockhopper penguins? I had a friend
                who sailed several days from South Africa to Tristan
                some years ago ---- but the weather didn't permit a
                landing. I hate it that there seems to be no safe
                place anywhere in our world for our precious wildlife
                and hope that Tristan authorities (who are they?) can
                stop this nonsense and leave the poor penguins alone.
                Would the poor birds have to go by ship? I assume
                there's no air strip or anything like that. I'd also
                like to hear from anybody about any aspect of these
                islands' wildlife.  Shirley McGreal
                 

                --- Bob Hails <hails@...> wrote:
                > Shirley--
                >
                > About those non-human primates you work for--are
                > they good bosses?  I've had
                > some in the past that were real apes.
                >
                > (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
                >
                > --Bob Hails
                >
                 
                 
                 

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