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Re: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

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  • Alberto Sanz
    Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san, I am the one to bow to your for your help and dedication. Thank you so much again. I decided to keep Hongo as there may be readers
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 2, 2009
      Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san,

      I am the one to bow to your for your help and dedication. Thank you so much again.

      I decided to keep Hongo as there may be readers from different countries and some explanation is given to understand the context. I am still not sure about the first line, but in any case I agree with your comments which made me now understand the haiku more!

      Sakuo san, I you do not mind, I would like to mention you regarding the "urawakaki tsuki" part in which you explained Hakyo walking through the Sakura tunnel, the lanterns, the girl ... I tried to express it in my own way and I discovered the best explanation was given by you. I hope you do not mind if I use your explanation as the main source to explain the second part of this haiku.

      Would you mind if I mention your name? I hope you would not mind and forgive me please if I am asking too much.

      This may be apearing in a Japanese language learning blog regarding kanji.They liked this haiku too and all important kanji in it (yozakura, hongoo). Thanking you!

      Alberto



      De: sakuo <sakuo.3.sun@...>
      Para: translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com
      Enviado: domingo, 29 de marzo, 2009 3:56:02
      Asunto: RE: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

      Alberto san,

      Thank you for your reply. I really bow to your passion for haiku.

       

      Hongo is key, but every one in the world don’t know the place

      and atmosphere.

       

      So if you put it in your translation, nobody can understand it’s feeling.

      By the way, what is the essence of Hongo?

      There are famous  school , collage and university where are full of young

      fellows. The young student  overflow the whole town.

       

      Could you find same town in Spain?

      Once I went to Oxford as well as Boston. When I go into the towns , my

      body and soul begin to dance. this is young student town.

       

      So Hongo is a student town.

       

      Please ganbatsute kudasai

       

      sakuo.

       

       

      From: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:translating haiku@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Alberto Sanz
      Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:07 AM
      To: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

       

      Thank you for your comment Sakuo san!
      I did not know how to transmit all sentiments in order to influence the reader to reflect themselves into the atmosphere of the situation one could feel in strolling in Hongoo and enjoying yozakusa...it is one of the most intriguing issues in translating haiku! and that is why I love it so much!
      I perfectly agree that Hongoo is key in this haiku, unfortunately we are nor aware about this name or even other important quarters in Tokyo...so how can one transmit the sentiment? perhaps

         cherries bloomed
      crescent moon
         Tokyo Spring!


      Thank you so mucho for your comments and guidance! I really appreciate it!


      De: sakuo <sakuo.3.sun@ nifty.com>
      Para: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com
      Enviado: sábado, 28 de marzo, 2009 1:56:18
      Asunto: RE: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

      Alberto san,

      I understand your passion to haiku translation.

      I hope that please don’t drop [ Hongo, district name],it is key of this haiku .

      If you adapt other place, for example Ginza, Shinjyuku and Asakusa,

      the haiku should be seen in other respect.

       

      sakuo.

       

       

      From: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:translating haiku@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of coquus
      Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:35 PM
      To: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

       

      Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san:

      So many thanks for all your comments!

      My old translation was quite obvious:

      cherry blossoms at dusk...
      a young moon
      over Hongoo quarter

      But now I feel as :

      cherry blossoms,
      sun rests, oh! crescent moon
      streets of joy

      Anyway, still need some final touch but is more the feeling in my mind now...it is great to have your help!

      Thanks so much

      Alberto

      --- In translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com, "sakuo" <sakuo.3.sun@ ...> wrote:

      >
      > Alberto san and Gabi san.
      >
      >
      >
      > I will tell you my imagination.
      >
      > At the time Hakyo is his twenties. He left from his home town and stay in
      > Tokyo.
      >
      > He is full of dream to become a haiku poet. In fact he has been admitted as
      >
      >
      > a young poet among haiku friends.
      >
      >
      >
      > Today is 26 March.
      >
      > After a week , cherry blossom will get full bloom. Same time of the season,
      >
      > Hakyo walks at night to view cherry flowers in Hongoo district where is
      > famous as student
      >
      > town. There are many young people enjoying the flowers.
      >
      >
      >
      > He look at a young girl coming through the pink flower¡Çs tunnel.
      >
      > Lanterns light up the flower tunnel.
      >
      > Thin
      moon is shinning in the sky.
      >
      >
      >
      > Suddenly poetic emotion hit his mind.
      >
      > Then haiku [ urawakaki tuki] was born.
      >
      >
      >
      > I like Suzuki Masajo who liked Hakyo, then I post this comment.
      >
      >
      >
      > sakuo.
      >
      >
      >
      > From: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:translating haiku@yahoogroup s.
      > com] On Behalf Of Greve Gabi
      > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 6:25 PM
      > To: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear Haiku fellow friends,
      > Greeting from Spain!
      >
      > I have been trying to polish one translation I did some time ago regarding a
      > Ishida Kakyo haiku, written when we was in his 20's.
      >
      > Yozakura ya
      > urawakaki
      > tsuki hongoo ni
      >
      > My concern is in regard to the word "urawakaki" as it is attached to tsuki.
      > Wakaki can be defined as youth giving the nuance of "young moon" or crescent
      > moon. However I am confused with the usage of the term ura in
      > ura-wakaki.. .is there any other nuance? Ura I think is a first person
      > pronoun used by male speaking, but it creates me some confusion. Thanks!!!
      >
      > Alberto
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear Alberto,
      >
      >
      >
      > thanks for sharing some of Ishida Hakyo.
      >
      >
      >
      > urawakaki means .. very young ..
      >
      >
      rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8">http://dic.yahoo. co.jp/dsearch? enc=UTF-8
      > <http://dic.yahoo. co.jp/dsearch? enc=UTF-8&stype=1&dtype=2&p=%E3%81%86% E3%82%
      > 89%E3%82%8F% E3%81%8B% E3%81%84>
      > &stype=1&dtype=2&p=%E3%81%86% E3%82%89% E3%82%8F% E3%81%8B% E3%81%84
      >
      >
      > for the first person, the word is usually ORA, not Ura
      >
      >
      >
      > Hongoo is a part of Tokyo.
      >
      >
      >
      > Here are more by Ishida, including the night sakua.
      >
      > http://www6. ocn.ne.jp/ ~alpha8/page03_ 01/1-modern- ishida_h. htm
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Greetings from a COLD evening in Japan.
      >
      > Gabi
      >

       


    • sakuo
      Alberto san , Thank you for your kind reply. You can use all of my phrase in your sentence. I am delighted that you will make it useful . Hope your blog
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 3, 2009

        Alberto san ,

        Thank you for your kind reply.

        You can use all of my phrase in your sentence.

        I am delighted that you will make it useful .

         

        Hope your blog getting big success!

         

        sakuo.

         

        From: translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com [mailto:translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto Sanz
        Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:03 PM
        To: translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

         

        Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san,

        I am the one to bow to your for your help and dedication. Thank you so much again.

        I decided to keep Hongo as there may be readers from different countries and some explanation is given to understand the context. I am still not sure about the first line, but in any case I agree with your comments which made me now understand the haiku more!

        Sakuo san, I you do not mind, I would like to mention you regarding the "urawakaki tsuki" part in which you explained Hakyo walking through the Sakura tunnel, the lanterns, the girl ... I tried to express it in my own way and I discovered the best explanation was given by you. I hope you do not mind if I use your explanation as the main source to explain the second part of this haiku.

        Would you mind if I mention your name? I hope you would not mind and forgive me please if I am asking too much.

        This may be apearing in a Japanese language learning blog regarding kanji.They liked this haiku too and all important kanji in it (yozakura, hongoo). Thanking you!

        Alberto

         


        De: sakuo <sakuo.3.sun@...>
        Para: translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com
        Enviado: domingo, 29 de marzo, 2009 3:56:02
        Asunto: RE: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

        Alberto san,

        Thank you for your reply. I really bow to your passion for haiku.

         

        Hongo is key, but every one in the world don’t know the place

        and atmosphere.

         

        So if you put it in your translation, nobody can understand it’s feeling.

        By the way, what is the essence of Hongo?

        There are famous  school , collage and university where are full of young

        fellows. The young student  overflow the whole town.

         

        Could you find same town in Spain?

        Once I went to Oxford as well as Boston. When I go into the towns , my

        body and soul begin to dance. this is young student town.

         

        So Hongo is a student town.

         

        Please ganbatsute kudasai

         

        sakuo.

         

         

        From: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:translating haiku@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Alberto Sanz
        Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:07 AM
        To: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

         

        Thank you for your comment Sakuo san!
        I did not know how to transmit all sentiments in order to influence the reader to reflect themselves into the atmosphere of the situation one could feel in strolling in Hongoo and enjoying yozakusa...it is one of the most intriguing issues in translating haiku! and that is why I love it so much!
        I perfectly agree that Hongoo is key in this haiku, unfortunately we are nor aware about this name or even other important quarters in Tokyo...so how can one transmit the sentiment? perhaps

           cherries bloomed
        crescent moon
           Tokyo Spring!


        Thank you so mucho for your comments and guidance! I really appreciate it!


        De: sakuo <sakuo.3.sun@ nifty.com>
        Para: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com
        Enviado: sábado, 28 de marzo, 2009 1:56:18
        Asunto: RE: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

        Alberto san,

        I understand your passion to haiku translation.

        I hope that please don’t drop [ Hongo, district name],it is key of this haiku .

        If you adapt other place, for example Ginza, Shinjyuku and Asakusa,

        the haiku should be seen in other respect.

         

        sakuo.

         

         

        From: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:translating haiku@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of coquus
        Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:35 PM
        To: translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

         

        Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san:

        So many thanks for all your comments!

        My old translation was quite obvious:

        cherry blossoms at dusk...
        a young moon
        over Hongoo quarter

        But now I feel as :

        cherry blossoms,
        sun rests, oh! crescent moon
        streets of joy

        Anyway, still need some final touch but is more the feeling in my mind now...it is great to have your help!

        Thanks so much

        Alberto

        --- In translatinghaiku@ yahoogroups. com, "sakuo" <sakuo.3.sun@ ...> wrote:

        >
        > Alberto san and Gabi san.
        >
        >
        >
        > I will tell you my imagination.
        >
        > At the time Hakyo is his twenties. He left from his home town and stay in
        > Tokyo.
        >
        > He is full of dream to become a haiku poet. In fact he has been admitted
        as
        >
        >
        > a young poet among haiku friends.
        >
        >
        >
        > Today is 26 March.
        >
        > After a week , cherry blossom will get full bloom. Same time of the
        season,
        >
        > Hakyo walks at night to view cherry flowers in Hongoo district where is
        > famous as student
        >
        > town. There are many young people enjoying the flowers.
        >
        >
        >
        > He look at a young girl coming through the pink flower¡Çs tunnel.
        >
        > Lanterns light up the flower tunnel.
        >
        > Thin moon is shinning in the sky.
        >
        >
        >
        > Suddenly poetic emotion hit his mind.
        >
        > Then haiku [ urawakaki tuki] was born.
        >
        >
        >
        > I like Suzuki Masajo who liked Hakyo, then I post this comment.
        >
        >
        >
        > sakuo.
        >
        >
        >
        > From: translatinghaiku@
        yahoogroups. com [mailto:translating haiku@yahoogroup s.
        > com] On Behalf Of Greve Gabi
        > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 6:25 PM
        > To: translatinghaiku@
        yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Dear Haiku fellow friends,
        > Greeting from Spain!
        >
        > I have been trying to polish one translation I did some time ago regarding
        a
        > Ishida Kakyo haiku, written when we was in his 20's.
        >
        > Yozakura ya
        > urawakaki
        > tsuki hongoo ni
        >
        > My concern is in regard to the word "urawakaki" as it is
        attached to tsuki.
        > Wakaki can be defined as youth giving the nuance of "young moon"
        or crescent
        > moon. However I am confused with the usage of the term ura in
        > ura-wakaki.. .is there any other nuance? Ura I think is a first person
        > pronoun used by male speaking, but it creates me some confusion. Thanks!!!
        >
        > Alberto
        >
        >
        >
        > Dear Alberto,
        >
        >
        >
        > thanks for sharing some of Ishida Hakyo.
        >
        >
        >
        > urawakaki means .. very young ..
        >
        > http://dic.yahoo.
        co.jp/dsearch? enc=UTF-8
        > <
        href="http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8&stype=1&dtype=2&p=%E3%81%86%E3%82%25" target="_blank">http://dic.yahoo. co.jp/dsearch? enc=UTF-8&stype=1&dtype=2&p=%E3%81%86% E3%82%
        > 89%E3%82%8F% E3%81%8B% E3%81%84>
        > &stype=1&dtype=2&p=%E3%81%86% E3%82%89% E3%82%8F% E3%81%8B%
        E3%81%84
        >
        >
        > for the first person, the word is usually ORA, not Ura
        >
        >
        >
        > Hongoo is a part of Tokyo.
        >
        >
        >
        > Here are more by Ishida, including the night sakua.
        >
        >
        target="_blank">http://www6. ocn.ne.jp/ ~alpha8/page03_ 01/1-modern- ishida_h. htm
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Greetings from a COLD evening in Japan.
        >
        > Gabi
        >

         

         

      • Alberto Sanz
        Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san, Here you may ind the collaboration I did in regard to Ishida Hakyo haiku. In the comming weeks we will publish some deep
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 3, 2009
          Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san,

          Here you may ind the collaboration I did in regard to Ishida Hakyo haiku.
          In the comming weeks we will publish some deep explanations in regard to the haiku.

          My best regards from Spain

          http://blogs.japanesepod101.com/?p=1952#Anchor2

          Alberto

        • Greve Gabi
          ... the ... Dear Alberto, this is a great way to learn Kanji, you are doing a good job with this, please carry on and ask us here , if you need more help with
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 3, 2009
            > Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san,
            >
            > Here you may ind the collaboration I did in regard to Ishida Hakyo haiku.
            > In the comming weeks we will publish some deep explanations in regard to the
            > haiku.
            >
            > My best regards from Spain
            >
            >
            > Alberto
            >
            Dear Alberto,
            this is a great way to learn Kanji,
            you are doing a good job with this, please carry on and ask us here , if you need more help with your translations!
             
            Gabi
             
             
             
             
            .
          • sakuo
            Alberto san, Congratulation! I saw your Calendar on Japanese Pod Blog. It is very wonderful work that I kept as my favorite file. Are your wife Japanese? She
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 3, 2009

              Alberto san,

              Congratulation!

              I saw your Calendar on Japanese Pod Blog.

              It is very wonderful work that I kept as my favorite file.

              Are your wife Japanese? She will be helpful to learn Japanese.

               

              sakuo.

               

              From: translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com [mailto:translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto Sanz
              Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:12 PM
              To: translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Translating Haiku] Re: Urawakaki ... very young < my imagination sakuo>

               

              Dear Sakuo san and Gabi san,

              Here you may ind the collaboration I did in regard to Ishida Hakyo haiku.
              In the comming weeks we will publish some deep explanations in regard to the haiku.

              My best regards from Spain

              http://blogs.japanesepod101.com/?p=1952#Anchor2

              Alberto

               

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