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Issa : Chrysanthemum sweets

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  • Greve Gabi
    ... http://cat.xula.edu/issa/ ............................................................... I fond this in my sweets saijiki yamadera ya cha no ko no an mo
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 4, 2008
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      >
      > mountain temple--
      > teacakes, red bean jam
      > chrysanthemums
      >
      > yamadera ya cha no ko no an mo kiku no hana
      >

      > by Issa, 1818
      >
      > Sakuo Nakamura corrected my misreading of the hiragana an as "table." He
      > assures me that Issa is picturing bean paste, also pronounced an.
      >
      > Tr. David Lanoue
      http://cat.xula.edu/issa/

      ...............................................................

      I fond this in my sweets saijiki
       
      yamadera ya cha no ko no an mo kiku no hana

      mountain temple <>
      even the sweets served for tea
      in the form of chrysanthemum

      Kobayashi Issa
      Tr. Gabi Greve

      http://worldkigo2005.blogspot.com/2006/07/sweets-from-japan-wagashi.html

      I think here "an" might not even be short for anko, but the word for the sweet stuff of many colors to make these little cakes ...
       
      and the MO makes me think he is speaking of the sweets in the form of ...
       
      my translation effort might be shortened a bit

      GABI
       
       
       
       
       
      himegiku
       
       
       
    • lbolenyc
      ... as table. He ... wagashi.html ... for the ... A1&dtype=0&dname=0na&stype=0&pagenum=1&index=00673500619600 ... of ... ... This is great stuff! I was
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 5, 2008
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        --- In translatinghaiku@yahoogroups.com, "Greve Gabi"
        <gokurakuatworldkigo@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > mountain temple--
        > > teacakes, red bean jam
        > > chrysanthemums
        > >
        > > yamadera ya cha no ko no an mo kiku no hana
        > >
        >
        > > by Issa, 1818
        > >
        > > Sakuo Nakamura corrected my misreading of the hiragana an
        as "table." He
        > > assures me that Issa is picturing bean paste, also pronounced an.
        > >
        > > Tr. David Lanoue
        > http://cat.xula.edu/issa/
        >
        > ...............................................................
        >
        > I fond this in my sweets saijiki
        >
        > yamadera ya cha no ko no an mo kiku no hana
        >
        > mountain temple <>
        > even the sweets served for tea
        > in the form of chrysanthemum
        >
        > Kobayashi Issa
        > Tr. Gabi Greve
        >
        > http://worldkigo2005.blogspot.com/2006/07/sweets-from-japan-
        wagashi.html
        >
        > I think here "an" might not even be short for anko, but the word
        for the
        > sweet stuff of many colors to make these little cakes ...
        > http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8&p=%E9%A4%
        A1&dtype=0&dname=0na&stype=0&pagenum=1&index=00673500619600
        >
        > and the MO makes me think he is speaking of the sweets in the form
        of ...
        >
        > my translation effort might be shortened a bit
        >
        > GABI


        This is great stuff! I was wondering how "cha no ko" came to be
        translated as "teacake," since "ko" can mean "child." And then I came
        across this (which I have edited for clarity):

        However, what is the meaning of Ocha no ko (child of tea)? The
        phrase "ocha no ko" started to be used a long time ago in Japan.
        There was a famous court noble called Tokitsugu Yamashina during
        Sengoku period, and he often mentioned in his diary that when he
        stayed at the house of Yoshimoto Imamoto in Sumpu (old name of
        Shizuoka city), he often had drinks with his close monk [friend] and
        had Ocha no ko as [an] hors d'oeuvre.

        During the Edo period there were vendors on the street to sell "cha
        no ko mochi" for a light breakfast. This was how the phrase Ocha no
        ko used to be used. However, the [literal] meaning of Ocha no ko
        is "like a child who follows the tea".

        The word "tea" does not only signify tea for drinking but also tea
        for eating as tea porridge. Cha no ko [does] not necessary mean a
        snack with tea, it also means a light meal. In fact, in the
        (mountain?) area of upper Tenryu river, a light meal eaten for
        breakfast is called "Cha no ko", but it does not come with tea.

        http://www.o-cha.net/english/japan/culture/culture11.html


        I figured out from Lanoue's translation that there must be a
        correspondence between the red bean-paste jam teacakes and
        chrysanthemums, but it doens't hurt to make it more explicit in the
        translation.

        I'm not sure I like the word "sweets." In English, I think someone
        reading "sweets" would think more of candy than a cookie (biscuit in
        UK English) or teacake. How about the more general "snack?"

        mountain temple--
        the snacks served with tea
        shaped like chrysanthemums

        or

        chrysanthemum-shaped

        or even

        the snacks served with tea
        like chrysanthemums


        It would be nice to somehow include the red jam color, but mentioning
        that the jam is made out of bean paste isn't really necessary.


        ANYWAY...

        here is a "cha no ko" haiku by Basho:

        itsutsu mutsu cha no ko ni narabu irori kana (winter 1688-89)

        five or six of us
        lined up before the tea cakes:
        the sunken hearth

        Basho, trans. Barnhill

        I wonder what Shiki thought of this haiku. It takes a LOT of work on
        the part of the modern, foreign reader to make it interesting. Whose
        hearth? Who made and is serving the tea cakes? Is this the end of a
        poetry-writing meeting? How scruffy would five or six haiku poets of
        that era look, lined up or sitting together?

        Barnhill's comment:

        In the winter cold, warmth is found sitting around a table above a
        sunken fire.

        --Larry
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