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Re: Articulated buses

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  • Michael Szemeredy
    There are a few reasons why Toronto never really grew fond of artics... They were sold on a particular model by the Canadian government which had a chassis
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 2, 2002
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      There are a few reasons why Toronto never really grew fond of artics...

      They were sold on a particular model by the Canadian government which had a
      chassis designed with an extremely small lifespan. This meant that heavy
      maitenance had to be performed quite early during its life. The maitenance
      cost of these vehicles was higher during testing phases (but that would have
      easily been rectified if the TTC would have invested and created a garage
      designed for their maitenance, if and when it decided to acqure a large
      number of them). Also, if I remember correctly, the Orion artics had
      taraction problems during icy conditions where the back end would slide all
      over the place. There are others I don't remember...

      Had they purchased GM artics like Missasauga did instead of Orion Icarus
      artics, it would probably be a whole different story...

      I for one would love seeing D60LFs (New Flyer 60 ft articulated low-floor
      buses, which is what Missasauga's newer artics are) rolling around Toronto.
      It would eliminate the need for alot of busses, allowing the TTC to free up
      some rolling stock for other routes.

      Around Ontario, transit systems have used/are using these artics:
      OC Transpo:
      New Flyer (D60LF) (?? in service)
      Orion (Ikarus) (?? in service, many Ex TTC)
      GM New Look (TA60-102N) (1 in service Ex HSR, original batch
      was sold to Missasauga Transit)
      Missasauga Transit:
      GM Classic (TA60-102N) (retired)
      GM New Look (TA60-102N) (retired)
      New Flyer (D60LF) (65 in service)
      Toronto Transit Commission:
      GM New Look (TA60-102N) (sold to Missasauga Transit)
      Orion (Ikarus) (61 originally, 19 rebuilt, ?? in service)
      Hamilton Street Railway:
      GM New Look (TA60-102N) (6 in service, 3 of which are Ex OC Transpo)

      Ironically, as far as Toronto transit goes, the D60LF and D60HF (high floor)
      are also available in an electric trolley configuration as the E60LF and
      E60HF (San Francisco uses the latter).
      http://www.busexplorer.com/NABus/MidSize/SanFranciscoNewFlyerE60.html
      http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/SanFrancisco/TC/DalyCity.jpg
    • Richard Hooles
      ... Last I heard, there were about 102 D60LFs in service in Ottawa, fewer than 20 Ikarus artics (no ex-TTCs left, as they were in awful condition), and that 1
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 2, 2002
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        --- Michael Szemeredy <szem@...> wrote:
        > OC Transpo:
        > New Flyer (D60LF) (?? in service)
        > Orion (Ikarus) (?? in service, many Ex TTC)
        > GM New Look (TA60-102N) (1 in service Ex HSR, original
        > batch
        > was sold to Missasauga Transit)

        Last I heard, there were about 102 D60LFs in service in
        Ottawa, fewer than 20 Ikarus artics (no ex-TTCs left, as
        they were in awful condition), and that 1 GM artic has been
        parked for over a year, and will likely never see service
        again.

        > Toronto Transit Commission:
        > GM New Look (TA60-102N) (sold to Missasauga Transit)
        > Orion (Ikarus) (61 originally, 19 rebuilt, ?? in
        > service)

        As Angelo already said, all 19 that were rebuilt are in
        service. Another 9 remain on TTC property in dead storage.

        > Hamilton Street Railway:
        > GM New Look (TA60-102N) (6 in service, 3 of which are
        > Ex OC Transpo)

        One of those artics died last fall; there are only 5 left
        in Hamilton now, all of which will likely be rebuilt and
        kept around for a few more years (one has already been
        rebuilt, with the others likely soon to follow).



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      • JCL
        As for OC Transpo s Orion Ikarus, there should be at least 40 of the best ones left. From what I have heard, the GM Artic 8222 and OC s 8501 (the first Orion
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 2, 2002
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          As for OC Transpo's Orion Ikarus, there should be at least 40 of the best ones left.

          From what I have heard, the GM Artic 8222 and OC's 8501 (the first Orion Ikarus) have been retired and both buses are part of the historical fleet.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Richard Hooles
          To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:17 PM
          Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Articulated buses

          Last I heard, there were about 102 D60LFs in service in
          Ottawa, fewer than 20 Ikarus artics (no ex-TTCs left, as
          they were in awful condition), and that 1 GM artic has been
          parked for over a year, and will likely never see service
          again.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bjhtn
          ... The Hamilton ones are rarely seen. As far as I know they re only being used as school extras on routes like 41 Mohawk and 35 College. Could be wrong. HSR
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 2, 2002
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            --- In transit-toronto@y..., Richard Hooles <rhooles@y...> wrote:

            > > Hamilton Street Railway:
            > > GM New Look (TA60-102N) (6 in service, 3 of which are
            > > Ex OC Transpo)
            >
            > One of those artics died last fall; there are only 5 left
            > in Hamilton now, all of which will likely be rebuilt and
            > kept around for a few more years (one has already been
            > rebuilt, with the others likely soon to follow).

            The Hamilton ones are rarely seen. As far as I know they're only
            being used as school extras on routes like 41 Mohawk and 35 College.
            Could be wrong. HSR has focussed its new vehicle acquisition on its
            controversial low-floor buses, which have significantly less capacity
            (about 75% of a regular bus) and which struggle to get up the
            escarpment (15 km/h going up the James/West 5th hill is not uncommon).

            Funny how Mississauga and Ottawa are going full strength on the
            artics, but TTC just gave up on them. Guess it just goes to show
            that first impressions really do count.

            Thanks, everyone, for the info.

            Brent
          • Mark W. Walton
            Actually, it was the Ontario government, not the federal (Canadian) government, that sold the TTC on those artics. Mark Walton mark.walton@sympatico.ca ...
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 2, 2002
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              Actually, it was the Ontario government, not the federal (Canadian) government, that sold the TTC on those artics.

              Mark Walton
              mark.walton@...

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Michael Szemeredy
              To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 4:20 AM
              Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Articulated buses


              There are a few reasons why Toronto never really grew fond of artics...

              They were sold on a particular model by the Canadian government which had a
              chassis designed with an extremely small lifespan.

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • lfs84
              ... The TTC originally had 90 Orion 03.501 articulated buses. They were numbered 6360-6419,6530-6559. As much as I would like to see new buses on Toronto
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 3, 2002
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                > GM New Look (TA60-102N) (sold to Missasauga Transit)
                > Orion (Ikarus) (61 originally, 19 rebuilt, ?? in service)

                The TTC originally had 90 Orion 03.501 articulated buses. They were
                numbered 6360-6419,6530-6559.

                As much as I would like to see new buses on Toronto streets I feel
                that there is a need for articulated buses. There doesn't seem to be
                much in the Canadian market, just New Flyer. New Flyer isn't that
                bad at all. The D60HFs in New York seem to be doing very well and
                they are still ordering more from New Flyer.

                We could always look to the American/foreign market for artics.
                Neoplan and NABI in the US. Van Hool, etc in the european market.

                The only purchase I see is the TTC purchasing is the New Flyer D60HF
                w/wheelchair lifts or D60LFs. Even then it's unsure or more unlikely
                that they may never purchase artics again.

                Allen Dicion
                go.to/ttc1001
              • rob9701
                HSR has focussed its new vehicle acquisition on its ... capacity ... uncommon). I heard that the HSR has committed to buying no more diesel buses. Apparently
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 5, 2002
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                  HSR has focussed its new vehicle acquisition on its
                  > controversial low-floor buses, which have significantly less
                  capacity
                  > (about 75% of a regular bus) and which struggle to get up the
                  > escarpment (15 km/h going up the James/West 5th hill is not
                  uncommon).

                  I heard that the HSR has committed to buying no more diesel buses.
                  Apparently the New Flyer artics are not available as CNG's (due to
                  some problem with design of the bus) and they ended up deciding to
                  fix up the old GM artics to get a few more years use.


                  > Funny how Mississauga and Ottawa are going full strength on the
                  > artics, but TTC just gave up on them. Guess it just goes to show
                  > that first impressions really do count.
                  >

                  The 1997 Mississauga low floor artics are starting to look and run
                  rough already. Putting those things into use in Toronto on long,
                  hilly routes jammed full of passengers would likely destroy them in
                  less than ten years.
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