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Re: [tracker2] Re: Nuvi 350 and OT2m as mobile, what do you all think?

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  • Kevin Jensen
    thought I gave my call sign, as some one hear did look at my tracking on aprs.fi. Look at N1KCG-9 please. My HT is N1KCG-7, when I turn it on and let it
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 30, 2009
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      thought I gave my call sign, as some one hear did look at my tracking on aprs.fi.  Look at N1KCG-9 please.  My HT is N1KCG-7, when I turn it on and let it beacon.
       
    • James Ewen
      ... Keith s eyes are getting old... even I found the callsign in the messages. That s how I knew you were in West Haven. It s usually me that misses the
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 30, 2009
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        On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Kevin Jensen <ktjensen@...> wrote:

        > thought I gave my call sign, as some one hear did look at
        > my tracking on aprs.fi.  Look at N1KCG-9 please.
        > My HT is N1KCG-7, when I turn it on and let it beacon.

        Keith's eyes are getting old... even I found the callsign in the
        messages. That's how I knew you were in West Haven. It's usually me
        that misses the callsign in the title or something.

        Gotcha Keith!

        Kevin, you'll notice the similarities between my post and Keith's
        post... we're both headed towards the same problem areas, and pointing
        out similar issues with your observations/methodology.

        Trust me, we and many others have been through this many, many times
        before. Every once and a while we get thrown a curve ball, but for the
        most part it's the same type of issues over and over again. We always
        aim for the low hanging fruit, while trying to educate everyone about
        polite usage of the APRS network. It's a shared resource and we all
        need to play nicely together in the sandbox.

        James
        VE6SRV
      • Keith VE7GDH
        Kevin N1KCG wrote... ... You must have given the callsign at some point as your callsign was still in my browsers search box - hi! I just listed all messages
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 30, 2009
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          Kevin N1KCG wrote...

          > thought I gave my call sign, as some one here did look at my tracking
          > on aprs.fi. Look at N1KCG-9 please.

          You must have given the callsign at some point as your callsign was
          still in my browsers search box - hi! I just listed all messages from
          the email address that you posted from and couldn't see a callsign.
          Looking back a bit further, I now see postings you that had N1KCG
          showing as the "name" associated with your email address. Very often, I
          don't even bother offering suggestions when no callsign as given as I
          don't even have a starting point to see what is making it to an IGate.
          Knowing your callsign, I see that I posted a reply to you early this
          morning. Rather than try and guess further, I'll wait for you to reply
          to that message as I don't have anything new to add.

          73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
          --
          "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
        • Keith VE7GDH
          James VE6SRV wrote... ... Naah... I m just getting more cranky! Kevin had posted 3 recent messages under the Nuvi 350 and OT2m as mobile, what do you all
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 30, 2009
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            James VE6SRV wrote...

            > Keith's eyes are getting old...

            Naah... I'm just getting more cranky!

            Kevin had posted 3 recent messages under the "Nuvi 350 and OT2m as
            mobile, what do you all think?" thread. He posted one under "Tarcker2
            and Nuvi 350 - not accepting commands?". The "from" address was "Kevin
            Jensen" <ktjensen @ gmail.com>. He had also posted a couple under "Nuvi
            350 Waypoint Management with SD Card" from "n1kcg" <ktjensen @
            gmail.com>. When I list messages based on the "from" address, it doesn't
            list N1KCG in alphabetical order with "Kevin Jensen". As near as I can
            see, he never did give his email address in the body text until today
            under the current thread.

            It was from the name embedded in his email in the earlier postings that
            I got the callsign N1KCG from. Looking back on Oct 20, he did post a
            message under "OT2 with Nuvi 350 how to get smartbeaconing working?"
            where he gave the callsign N1KCG in the body of the message. Different
            thread! Yeah, I could have looked harder, but I sometimes get annoyed at
            guessing or having to go digging to look up a callsign just because
            someone didn't include it in their posting. And then over on the VX8R
            forum, he said... wait, that isn't Tracker 2 stuff!

            The moral of the story is "include your callsign, or some people will
            ignore you" or something like that. See? I said I was getting more
            cranky!

            73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
            --
            "I may be cranky, but I'm also lazy!"
          • Pete Lilja
            Thank you, Lynn! That is fantastic! While I ve read the instructions for my OT+ and T2 in setting the deviation / audio output this primer really helps me
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 30, 2009
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              Thank you, Lynn!  That is fantastic!  While I've read the instructions for my OT+ and T2 in setting the deviation / audio output this primer really helps me understand the whys and hows.
               
              Now I need to check and probably adjust downward the outputs of my two Argent TNCs.  Maximizing the settings is becoming an obsession.  8)
               
              If I keep learning like I have been lately from this list I'm gonna have to upgrade my ham license!  These mysterious, magical radios become less so the more I read and play with them.
               
              Pete
              KCØGPB
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:36 PM
              Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: Nuvi 350 and OT2m as mobile, what do you all think?

               

              I've found this page
              (http://www.febo. com/packet/ layer-one/ transmit. html) to be VERY helpful
              at understanding the deviation (loudness) issues as well as providing a
              step-wise procedure to fix it. They recommend starting low and going UP
              until you hear no change and then backing DOWN a bit. YMMV

              Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

              Fred Hillhouse wrote:
              >
              >
              > 4) I can hear the packets fine with my stand alone HT radio,
              > with APRS. They should like everyone elses packets. But maybe I do
              > need to adjust the volume settings (what is that command?) so that
              > the modulation is improved. Maybe I am undermodulating the packet,
              > with my audio from the TRACKER?
              >
              >
              > My guess is that under modulating the packet is rarely the problem. In
              > actually the greatest fault is too much modulation. More means better,
              > right? No. Many directions say to start at max and work down until the
              > signal sounds good again. I have never been successful doing that. I
              > can't hear the difference between an over modulated signal to one that
              > is good.
              >
              > My method of setting the output is to turn the TXLEVEL to 0 and work
              > up from there. When I hear a signal, I stop and that is usually good.
              > I have bumped it up a couple of levels but I have not found it to be
              > detrimental. What is a 'good signal' to me? Glad you asked. I listen
              > with another radio and when I can hear the audio, I am happy.
              >
              > You are better off not being as high as 3.5 kHz, than being over it.
              >
              > I did recently get a deviation meter and will have to go in a measure
              > my current settings. I am curious where they really ended up.
              >
              >
              > Best regards,
              >
              > Fred
              >

            • James Ewen
              ... It s only magic until you figure out where the guy hides the card/ball/handkerchief... It can be overwhelming if you jump in the deep end, but if you keep
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 30, 2009
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                On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Pete Lilja <plilja@...> wrote:

                > If I keep learning like I have been lately from this list I'm gonna
                > have to upgrade my ham license!  These mysterious, magical
                > radios become less so the more I read and play with them.

                It's only magic until you figure out where the guy hides the
                card/ball/handkerchief...

                It can be overwhelming if you jump in the deep end, but if you keep
                after it, the fog dissipates slowly.

                Keep reading, learning, and asking if you need more information.

                James
                VE6SRV
              • Scott Miller
                This (troubleshooting why you re not getting heard) would be a good topic for a Wiki article. I ll start it myself when I have a chance, but if someone else
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 30, 2009
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                  This (troubleshooting why you're not getting heard) would be a good
                  topic for a Wiki article. I'll start it myself when I have a chance,
                  but if someone else wanted to take a shot at it that'd be great.

                  Scott

                  James Ewen wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Kevin Jensen <ktjensen@...
                  > <mailto:ktjensen%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                  >
                  > > 1) 15 seconds only matters, if someone can hear my packets.
                  >
                  > Sure, if you are in the middle of no where, hundreds of miles from
                  > anyone on 144.390, this is true. You're not quite in that situation in
                  > West Haven. There are a LOT of stations within 20 miles of you. You
                  > are very probably being heard over that kind of range. Digipeaters
                  > with good HAAT will easily hear you over that distance.
                  >
                  > > That is still an issue, as they are not getting through for some reason.
                  >
                  > Getting through is a totally different issue than being heard. While
                  > it is true that you "won't get through" without being heard, the
                  > opposite is not true. You could very well be heard by MANY stations,
                  > but because of issues such as deviation misadjustment, you won't "get
                  > through". Being heard and being decoded are related but not equal.
                  >
                  > > Maybe 5 to 10 get through and are displayed on APRS.FI for the 20
                  > > minute trip to work in the morning. Nothing else gets through.
                  >
                  > So, some stations are able to hear AND decode your packets. This tells
                  > us that for the most part everything is working on your setup... this
                  > could still indicate an improper deviation, low power output/bad SWR,
                  > or something like that causing problems.
                  >
                  > > The
                  > > packet frequency is not that busy. I can hear packets from several
                  > > other stations, and they all display on my Nuvi 350.
                  >
                  > The packet frequency is not that busy from your perspective. You can
                  > only hear the activity that is within simplex range of your station.
                  > Let's say that for arguement's sake that is a 20 mile radius around
                  > your vehicle. Digipeaters are usually located where they have a pretty
                  > good view of the area around them. Let's say a digipeater 10 miles
                  > away can hear an area with a 30 mile radius. That digipeater can hear
                  > everything you can, and a whole lot more. If there are stations within
                  > range of the digipeater that are sending packets at the same time you
                  > are, at best, one of the two stations are going to be heard by FM
                  > capture effect. Worst case, both packets are garbage. Now consider
                  > that neighboring digipeaters will usually be able to be heard by the
                  > local digipeater, even if they are further than 30 miles away simply
                  > due to the fact that the digis are up on high spots.
                  >
                  > Digipeaters are hubs of activity, repeating packets like crazy. They
                  > listen to all activity on the frequency, and only digipeat those
                  > packets asking for another hop. Packets that have paths that are used
                  > up are still heard, but not digipeated. This still takes up time on
                  > the digipeater even if it's not going to digipeat the signal. For you
                  > as a user in the digipeater area, it might sound like there's not a
                  > lot of activity, but for the digipeater, it might be another story.
                  > Try driving up on a hilltop nearby one day and have a listen to
                  > 144.390 for a while. See if it still sounds really quiet.
                  >
                  > > 2) Have tried setting SMART to ON with appropriate parameters (as
                  > > suggested here), and an INTERVAL of 2 minutes. With these settings, I
                  > > get two or three packets through on my 20 minute trip.
                  >
                  > Yes, because SmartBeaconing is going to send fewer packets than your
                  > 15 second interval. Throwing hundreds of baseballs at a dunk tank
                  > target gives you lots of opportunity to hit the target, but a couple
                  > well aimed baseballs that hit the target means your arm is not as sore
                  > at the end of the day.
                  >
                  > > 3) Do I have something wrong?
                  >
                  > Most likely... first culprit to look at is deviation, as it is a very
                  > common setting to have set wrong.
                  >
                  > > Does a packet contain all the last
                  > > several coordinate breadcrumb trails in it (several gps coordinate
                  > > sets that are stored over the last several minutes)? Or does a packet
                  > > only contain the last single coordinate set, for the moment? I think
                  > > the latter.
                  >
                  > You are correct. The packet only contains the current GPS information.
                  > Regular APRS does not do any buffering of information. APRS is a fire
                  > and forget protocol. There's no way for your station to know if the
                  > packets you are sending are being heard by anyone.
                  >
                  > > 4) I can hear the packets fine with my stand alone HT radio, with
                  > > APRS. They should like everyone elses packets. But maybe I do need
                  > > to adjust the volume settings (what is that command?) so that the
                  > > modulation is improved. Maybe I am undermodulating the packet, with
                  > > my audio from the TRACKER?
                  >
                  > Using OTWINCFG, and playing with the modulation control will let you
                  > test... I'd listen on another radio, and if possible watch another
                  > APRS radio to see if the packets are being decoded, or as a last
                  > resort watch the computer to see if you are making it to the APRS-IS.
                  >
                  > > 5) Also need to check my radio and its baud rate. Do not recall if
                  > > it is set to 1200 or not. It should be at that setting I assume?
                  >
                  > No need to worry about a baud rate in the radio. You said you were
                  > using a TM-V71 and an OT2... you should be feeding audio tones into
                  > that radio, not digital data.
                  >
                  > > Thanks for all the comments. They all make sense during investigation
                  > > of optimal APRS.
                  >
                  > Let's keep going to see if we can get you better reliability so you'll
                  > reduce your packet rate from 15 seconds down to something reasonable.
                  >
                  > Right now it's like you're standing in the middle of a room shouting,
                  > but none of those around you can understand what you are saying. We
                  > need to help you reduce the volume, and increase intelligibility. The
                  > end result is better communication all around.
                  >
                  > James
                  > VE6SRV
                  >
                  >
                • Kevin Jensen
                  Did some more tracking on myself last night N1KCG-9 and notice that while driving slow I got lots of beacons through. But as soon as I start moving fast, my
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 31, 2009
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                    Did some more tracking on myself last night N1KCG-9 and notice that while driving slow I got lots of beacons through.  But as soon as I start moving fast, my beacons start getting really wide spaced and not heard.  Terrain is very hilly, with lots of trees.

                    Given all the other symptoms (not being heard), any suggestions?  Some are saying my antenna- radio might not be tuned up (poor swr)?  Looking at the successful transmission sequence yesterday night, I notice that I was right next to a great gateway station, that picked up every beacon packet sent, when everything was running well. 

                    Am watching my radio transmit beacons, and it slows down transmitting when I drive fast.  Almost like the TRACKER just stalls with its beaconing, while driving fast.  As soon as I slow down at an exit, and start driving slow city streets, I start to get lots of beacons through (as recorded in the APRS.FI view). 

                     Again my interval is set to once every 15 seconds (--INT 15) and my transmit level is 200 (--TXL 200).  SMART is OFF. 

                     
                  • kb9lgs
                    I am using the Muvi 350 and OT2m tied to a MFJ data radio. It works very well. One issue when I first started. The OT2m seems to be a bit sensitive to
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 31, 2009
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                      I am using the Muvi 350 and OT2m tied to a MFJ data radio. It works very well. One issue when I first started. The OT2m seems to be a bit sensitive to stray rf, and I had the two boxes on top of each other in the back of my jeep under the rear seat. The OT2m kept locking up with the transmit line on. I fixed this by putting the OT2m on one side and the radio on the other side and used the Driveshaft tunnel as a bit of an RF shield.


                      > this is for people that already use this setup. i'm thinking of changing my setup. right now i have a Rino 130 hooked to TT4. not saying anything bad about TT4 but i have a Nuvi 350 that is new and i'm so ready to upgrade and use that so i can see other aprs stations when driving the semi truck i drive. my main reason for emailing the group is to see what problems you all have had with the Nuvi 350 and OT2m setup as a mobile setup? how many of you do messageing on them? i stop a lot in the middle of nowhere where there is no cell phone service but there is great aprs service. please let me know about all the good and bad that you all have had about this compian setup. i have a GTRANS Garmin to NMEA Translator Cable (D-Sub Style) on order but really thinking about seeing if i can change my order fo the OT2m type of setup.
                    • Scott Miller
                      It really *shouldn t* be that sensitive to stray RF, not in its case anyway. I would check the routing of your radio cables, and maybe add a ferrite clamp.
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 2, 2009
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                        It really *shouldn't* be that sensitive to stray RF, not in its case
                        anyway. I would check the routing of your radio cables, and maybe add a
                        ferrite clamp. There are ferrite chips on the board for all of the
                        radio and serial connections, too.

                        Ordinarily I can't get one to lock up with 50w of RF right next to it.
                        But the new board revision's got extra protection - multilayer transient
                        voltage suppressors that are mostly there to bleed off ESD and save it
                        from momentary wiring mistakes, but they also add some capacitive filtering.

                        Scott

                        kb9lgs wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > I am using the Muvi 350 and OT2m tied to a MFJ data radio. It works very
                        > well. One issue when I first started. The OT2m seems to be a bit
                        > sensitive to stray rf, and I had the two boxes on top of each other in
                        > the back of my jeep under the rear seat. The OT2m kept locking up with
                        > the transmit line on. I fixed this by putting the OT2m on one side and
                        > the radio on the other side and used the Driveshaft tunnel as a bit of
                        > an RF shield.
                        >
                        > > this is for people that already use this setup. i'm thinking of
                        > changing my setup. right now i have a Rino 130 hooked to TT4. not saying
                        > anything bad about TT4 but i have a Nuvi 350 that is new and i'm so
                        > ready to upgrade and use that so i can see other aprs stations when
                        > driving the semi truck i drive. my main reason for emailing the group is
                        > to see what problems you all have had with the Nuvi 350 and OT2m setup
                        > as a mobile setup? how many of you do messageing on them? i stop a lot
                        > in the middle of nowhere where there is no cell phone service but there
                        > is great aprs service. please let me know about all the good and bad
                        > that you all have had about this compian setup. i have a GTRANS Garmin
                        > to NMEA Translator Cable (D-Sub Style) on order but really thinking
                        > about seeing if i can change my order fo the OT2m type of setup.
                        >
                        >
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