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RE: [tracker2] ETA?

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  • Cap Pennell
    Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you have done and are doing for APRS. FB! Yes, a lot of appliance operators, like
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 3 2:56 PM
      Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you
      have done and are doing for APRS. FB!

      Yes, a lot of "appliance operators, like myself" will be hoping to be able
      to buy and use "plug and play" assembled versions of the OT2. My experience
      with APRS (and 2m packet in general) tells me that that many OT2 users will
      be quite content with the basic (default) settings, despite the vast amounts
      of time and energy you've invested into making this project incredibly
      capable, flexible, configurable, and upgradeable. With us "appliance
      operators" in mind, I hope you will consider configuration parameter
      defaults that are quite conservative as regards the limited available
      airtime on the VHF APRS frequency. We know conservative digipaths and
      transmission intervals are courteous to all the other users hoping to share
      the frequency. Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
      and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
      WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

      I know you've already thought carefully about these things too. Thanks!
      Good luck!
      73, Cap KE6AFE


      -----Original Message-----
      From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
      scott@...
      Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 13:44 PM
      To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

      The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not
      counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality
      I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
      <snip>
    • Jason Winningham
      ... Actually, a better default would be don t digipeat at all , which happens to be the default. -Jason kg4wsv
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 3 3:03 PM
        On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

        > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
        > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
        > WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

        Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
        happens to be the default.

        -Jason
        kg4wsv
      • scott@opentrac.org
        Actually I think that it s set to digipeat on MYCALL by default. The logic there is that no one s likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 3 3:35 PM
          Actually I think that it's set to digipeat on MYCALL by default.  The logic there is that no one's likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they need the capability then it's there.
           
          Scott


          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Winningham
          Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:04 PM
          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


          On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

          > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
          > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
          > WIDE1-1,WIDE2- 1" would be good for starting out.

          Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
          happens to be the default.

          -Jason
          kg4wsv

        • Tony VE6MVP
          ... Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that s another $17. So yours should be at
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 4 12:20 PM
            At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

            A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

            Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.   And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well.  So that's another $17.   So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.     Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

            Tony

          • Steven Palm
            ... I think that Scott should have a separate donate area for people who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many shekels as you want
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 4 1:08 PM
              On Aug 4, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Tony VE6MVP wrote:
              > At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:
              >> A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
              >> $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
              >> it does.
              >
              > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I
              > suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's another
              > $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.
              > Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

              I think that Scott should have a separate "donate" area for people
              who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many
              shekels as you want to into the bucket. :) On the other hand, I'm
              hoping that he leans toward not maximizing profit, but instead
              minimizing cost but without causing any personal loss or hardship.
              Maybe that attitude comes from my choosing to work for a non-profit,
              so not only is my money limited, but I'm focused always on doing
              things for the efficiency of money, not the surplus of it.

              And indeed, this is way off topic, so I should shut up now.

              Steve
            • Tanner Lovelace
              ... There s a huge psychological barrier for something that costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I d recommend not going into 3 digits.
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 6 5:35 PM
                On 8/4/06, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                >
                > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering
                > what it does.
                >
                > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.
                > And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's
                > another $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the
                > same comparison. Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                There's a huge psychological barrier for something that
                costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I'd
                recommend not going into 3 digits. That's not to say I don't
                think profit should be made, I'm just trying to point out some
                considerations.

                Personally, I'm rather dismayed by how much radio gear
                costs these days, especially being in the computer field
                where costs on everything go down by leaps and bounds
                every year. (Yes, I realize there are economies of scale,
                but that's still another barrier for getting new people into
                the hobby.)

                Cheers,
                Tanner Lovelace
                KB4TYE


                --
                Tanner Lovelace
                clubjuggler at gmail dot com
                http://wtl.wayfarer.org/
                (fieldless) In fess two roundels in pale, a billet fesswise and an
                increscent, all sable.
              • n0anhasan50212
                Scott, If it s anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I ll buy one immediately. I don t have time to do the assembly. If for no other reason, I would
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 9 5:04 AM
                  Scott,

                  If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                  immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                  reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                  evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                  hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                  supervising the TNCs.

                  Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                  my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                  up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                  to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                  hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                  mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                  prefer it.

                  73,

                  ...hasan, N0AN


                  --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                  > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                  easier to
                  > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                  printing, the
                  > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                  > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                  >
                • Curt, WE7U
                  ... Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature! For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out and mic-in, running with the squelch open
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 9 5:13 AM
                    On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                    > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                    > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                    > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                    > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                    > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                    > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                    > prefer it.

                    Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                    For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                    and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                    control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                    are volume and power.

                    I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                    often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                    Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                    These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                    versions, so the chances are going up again...

                    --
                    Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
                    "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                    "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
                    "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
                  • scott@opentrac.org
                    Yes, it ll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on. Works well. Scott _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 9 7:44 AM
                      Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                       
                      Scott


                      From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                      To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                      Scott,

                      If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                      immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                      reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                      evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                      hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                      supervising the TNCs.

                      Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                      my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                      up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                      to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                      hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                      mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                      prefer it.

                      73,

                      ....hasan, N0AN

                      --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                      > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                      easier to
                      > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                      printing, the
                      > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                      > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                      >

                    • scott@opentrac.org
                      Here s a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340 Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 9 7:49 AM
                        Here's a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340  Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening it up.
                         
                        Scott


                        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curt, WE7U
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:14 AM
                        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                        On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                        > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                        > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                        > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                        > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                        > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                        > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                        > prefer it.

                        Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                        For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                        and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                        control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                        are volume and power.

                        I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                        often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                        Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                        These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                        versions, so the chances are going up again...

                        --
                        Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo. com/~archer
                        "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                        "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. " -- WE7U
                        "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

                      • J. Lance Cotton
                        ... So what does it do with SWDCD is off? -- J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O joe@lightningflash.net http://kj5o.lightningflash.net Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 9 7:51 AM
                          scott@... wrote:
                          > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                          > on. Works well.

                          So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                          --
                          J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                          joe@...
                          http://kj5o.lightningflash.net
                          Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                          cookies.
                        • scott@opentrac.org
                          Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip. White noise or voice will trigger it. _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 9 9:45 AM
                            Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip.  White noise or voice will trigger it.
                             

                            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Lance Cotton
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:52 AM
                            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                            scott@opentrac. org wrote:
                            > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                            > on. Works well.

                            So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                            --
                            J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                            joe@lightningflash. net
                            http://kj5o. lightningflash. net
                            Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                            cookies.

                          • hasan schiers
                            Thanks Scott, I can t wait! 73, ... From: scott@opentrac.org To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re:
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 9 10:42 AM
                              Thanks Scott, I can't wait!
                               
                              73,
                               
                              ...hasan, N0AN
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: scott@...
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM
                              Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                              Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                               
                              Scott


                              From: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:tracker2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                              To: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com
                              Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                              Scott,

                              If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                              immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                              reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                              evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                              hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                              supervising the TNCs.

                              Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                              my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                              up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                              to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                              hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                              mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                              prefer it.

                              73,

                              ....hasan, N0AN

                              --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                              > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                              easier to
                              > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                              printing, the
                              > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                              > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                              >

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