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RE: [tracker2] ETA?

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  • Tony VE6MVP
    ... 1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
      At 01:44 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:
      (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)

      1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite snippets of answers. http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/newsgroupanswersmdb.htm.   If you don't have Microsoft Access installed I'll be happy to build you a runtime package.

      2) Don't be afraid to redirect emails to this mailing list.  Develop a canned response for this.  Let us answer the simpler questions.  And maybe some of us can forward the tough ones to you.

      3) Don't answer the questions as soon as you see them.  Wait a day or so especially if it's a simple answer.  By then the person may have already found the answer on their own or by searching the archives.

      I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.

      Don't go too cheap.   If you get very few complaints about the price then it's too cheap.  (Some people will always complain.)   If you get some complaints then it's about right.   If you get a lot of complaints then it's too expensive.

      Tony

    • Cap Pennell
      Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you have done and are doing for APRS. FB! Yes, a lot of appliance operators, like
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
        Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you
        have done and are doing for APRS. FB!

        Yes, a lot of "appliance operators, like myself" will be hoping to be able
        to buy and use "plug and play" assembled versions of the OT2. My experience
        with APRS (and 2m packet in general) tells me that that many OT2 users will
        be quite content with the basic (default) settings, despite the vast amounts
        of time and energy you've invested into making this project incredibly
        capable, flexible, configurable, and upgradeable. With us "appliance
        operators" in mind, I hope you will consider configuration parameter
        defaults that are quite conservative as regards the limited available
        airtime on the VHF APRS frequency. We know conservative digipaths and
        transmission intervals are courteous to all the other users hoping to share
        the frequency. Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
        and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
        WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

        I know you've already thought carefully about these things too. Thanks!
        Good luck!
        73, Cap KE6AFE


        -----Original Message-----
        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
        scott@...
        Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 13:44 PM
        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

        The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not
        counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality
        I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
        <snip>
      • Jason Winningham
        ... Actually, a better default would be don t digipeat at all , which happens to be the default. -Jason kg4wsv
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
          On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

          > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
          > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
          > WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

          Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
          happens to be the default.

          -Jason
          kg4wsv
        • scott@opentrac.org
          Actually I think that it s set to digipeat on MYCALL by default. The logic there is that no one s likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
            Actually I think that it's set to digipeat on MYCALL by default.  The logic there is that no one's likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they need the capability then it's there.
             
            Scott


            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Winningham
            Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:04 PM
            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


            On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

            > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
            > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
            > WIDE1-1,WIDE2- 1" would be good for starting out.

            Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
            happens to be the default.

            -Jason
            kg4wsv

          • Tony VE6MVP
            ... Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that s another $17. So yours should be at
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
              At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

              A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

              Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.   And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well.  So that's another $17.   So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.     Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

              Tony

            • Steven Palm
              ... I think that Scott should have a separate donate area for people who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many shekels as you want
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
                On Aug 4, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Tony VE6MVP wrote:
                > At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:
                >> A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                >> $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                >> it does.
                >
                > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I
                > suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's another
                > $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.
                > Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                I think that Scott should have a separate "donate" area for people
                who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many
                shekels as you want to into the bucket. :) On the other hand, I'm
                hoping that he leans toward not maximizing profit, but instead
                minimizing cost but without causing any personal loss or hardship.
                Maybe that attitude comes from my choosing to work for a non-profit,
                so not only is my money limited, but I'm focused always on doing
                things for the efficiency of money, not the surplus of it.

                And indeed, this is way off topic, so I should shut up now.

                Steve
              • Tanner Lovelace
                ... There s a huge psychological barrier for something that costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I d recommend not going into 3 digits.
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 6, 2006
                  On 8/4/06, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                  > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering
                  > what it does.
                  >
                  > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.
                  > And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's
                  > another $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the
                  > same comparison. Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                  There's a huge psychological barrier for something that
                  costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I'd
                  recommend not going into 3 digits. That's not to say I don't
                  think profit should be made, I'm just trying to point out some
                  considerations.

                  Personally, I'm rather dismayed by how much radio gear
                  costs these days, especially being in the computer field
                  where costs on everything go down by leaps and bounds
                  every year. (Yes, I realize there are economies of scale,
                  but that's still another barrier for getting new people into
                  the hobby.)

                  Cheers,
                  Tanner Lovelace
                  KB4TYE


                  --
                  Tanner Lovelace
                  clubjuggler at gmail dot com
                  http://wtl.wayfarer.org/
                  (fieldless) In fess two roundels in pale, a billet fesswise and an
                  increscent, all sable.
                • n0anhasan50212
                  Scott, If it s anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I ll buy one immediately. I don t have time to do the assembly. If for no other reason, I would
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                    Scott,

                    If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                    immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                    reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                    evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                    hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                    supervising the TNCs.

                    Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                    my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                    up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                    to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                    hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                    mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                    prefer it.

                    73,

                    ...hasan, N0AN


                    --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                    > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                    easier to
                    > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                    printing, the
                    > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                    > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                    >
                  • Curt, WE7U
                    ... Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature! For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out and mic-in, running with the squelch open
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                      On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                      > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                      > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                      > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                      > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                      > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                      > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                      > prefer it.

                      Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                      For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                      and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                      control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                      are volume and power.

                      I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                      often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                      Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                      These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                      versions, so the chances are going up again...

                      --
                      Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
                      "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                      "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
                      "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
                    • scott@opentrac.org
                      Yes, it ll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on. Works well. Scott _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                        Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                         
                        Scott


                        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                        Scott,

                        If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                        immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                        reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                        evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                        hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                        supervising the TNCs.

                        Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                        my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                        up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                        to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                        hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                        mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                        prefer it.

                        73,

                        ....hasan, N0AN

                        --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                        > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                        easier to
                        > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                        printing, the
                        > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                        > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                        >

                      • scott@opentrac.org
                        Here s a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340 Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                          Here's a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340  Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening it up.
                           
                          Scott


                          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curt, WE7U
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:14 AM
                          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                          On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                          > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                          > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                          > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                          > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                          > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                          > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                          > prefer it.

                          Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                          For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                          and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                          control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                          are volume and power.

                          I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                          often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                          Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                          These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                          versions, so the chances are going up again...

                          --
                          Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo. com/~archer
                          "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                          "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. " -- WE7U
                          "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

                        • J. Lance Cotton
                          ... So what does it do with SWDCD is off? -- J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O joe@lightningflash.net http://kj5o.lightningflash.net Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                            scott@... wrote:
                            > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                            > on. Works well.

                            So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                            --
                            J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                            joe@...
                            http://kj5o.lightningflash.net
                            Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                            cookies.
                          • scott@opentrac.org
                            Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip. White noise or voice will trigger it. _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                              Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip.  White noise or voice will trigger it.
                               

                              From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Lance Cotton
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:52 AM
                              To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                              scott@opentrac. org wrote:
                              > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                              > on. Works well.

                              So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                              --
                              J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                              joe@lightningflash. net
                              http://kj5o. lightningflash. net
                              Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                              cookies.

                            • hasan schiers
                              Thanks Scott, I can t wait! 73, ... From: scott@opentrac.org To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re:
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                Thanks Scott, I can't wait!
                                 
                                73,
                                 
                                ...hasan, N0AN
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: scott@...
                                Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM
                                Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                 
                                Scott


                                From: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:tracker2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                To: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com
                                Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                Scott,

                                If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                supervising the TNCs.

                                Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                prefer it.

                                73,

                                ....hasan, N0AN

                                --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                easier to
                                > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                printing, the
                                > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                >

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