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Re: [tracker2] ETA?

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  • Steven Palm
    On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, ... Well, my hands aren t the most steady, and aren t getting any better with age, so I d
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 3 6:02 AM
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      On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
      wrote:
      > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
      > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
      > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

      Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
      better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
      version assembled. ;)

      > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
      > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
      > it does.

      No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
      is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
      though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
      Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
      I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

      This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
      off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
      dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
      etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
      'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
      amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
      mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
      seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
      money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
      you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

      All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
      that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
      commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
      blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

      > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
      > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
      > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
      > spiffy...

      Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
      the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
      versions might be.

      Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.
    • Tony VE6MVP
      ... Please do have some assembled versions available. I m just an appliance operator. Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 3 9:47 AM
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        At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

        Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

        Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

        A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

        Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

        Tony
      • scott@opentrac.org
        The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality I d be
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 3 1:44 PM
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          The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits.  If I was going solely on a business mentality I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
           
          John Hansen once told me that he prices his kits (including the TNC-X) as low as he can without feeling depressed every time he kits one up.  I've reached a point where the amount of time I spend on support (especially pre-sales) is a big factor in that equation.  For a little $29 kit, the OpenTracker is a reasonably complex piece of equipment, at least compared to the blinking LED type kits you might get from Ramsey for that price, and it generates a lot of emails to be answered.  The T2 is significantly more complicated (about 6 times the code right now) and will likely take a proportionately larger amount of my time.  (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)
           
          Just about all of the money I make from this business at this point goes right back to new development.  I don't take any profit from it on a regular basis, and the money goes toward things like the new enclosures, and the speaker mic cables that I imported to sell for half of MFJ's price - stuff that I think benefits the APRS community and that I wouldn't be able to do without the working capital.  Shipping charges alone on those two projects came to about $400.  Server rental is my biggest overhead expense right now, and even that provides some benefit - aside from the store, the server also hosts the APRS Wiki, and a large chunk of bandwidth is devoted to APRS TV.
           
          I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.
           
          Scott


          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
          Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 6:02 AM
          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


          On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@opentrac. org> <scott@opentrac. org>
          wrote:
          > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
          > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
          > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

          Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
          better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
          version assembled. ;)

          > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
          > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
          > it does.

          No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
          is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
          though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
          Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
          I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

          This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
          off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
          dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
          etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
          'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
          amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
          mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
          seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
          money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
          you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

          All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
          that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
          commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
          blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

          > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
          > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
          > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
          > spiffy...

          Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
          the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
          versions might be.

          Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.

        • scott@opentrac.org
          I want to start with kits because it s a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board. Once I ve got a fair number of units in regular use I ll feel
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 3 1:55 PM
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            I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
             
            Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?
             
            Scott


            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony VE6MVP
            Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:48 AM
            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

            At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

            Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

            Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

            A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

            Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

            Tony

          • Steven Palm
            On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, ... And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to stick around
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 3 1:59 PM
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              On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
              wrote:
              > I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need
              > to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth
              > doing. Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at
              > least gives me a sanity check.

              And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to
              stick around because this is still fun and interesting for you to
              do. :) I'll re-iterate what I put originally and say that I was NOT
              attacking your or your model, just curious where you came down on the
              determination.

              I've told you in private emails before, and I'll say it publicly, I
              think what you are doing and providing is an INCREDIBLE value, and I
              don't want you to have any other impression. In retrospect, I should
              have fired that last message off to you directly instead of to the
              list, but now I think that everyone can get some idea of where your
              heart/mind (and wallet? <smile>) is.

              Thanks again, and I'll stop bugging you now so you have time to
              work on getting the tracker2 out. :)

              Steve
            • Tony VE6MVP
              ... Fair enough. I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X. (This was before I found out about
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 3 2:18 PM
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                At 01:55 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:

                I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
                 
                Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?

                Fair enough.  

                I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X.    (This was before I found out about the Tracker2.)  He bluntly told me that he didn't recommend I do so.  However he'd be happy to loan me the equipment to do so such as the magnifier, temp controlled soldering iron and so forth.   Then he went on and volunteered to build it for me.  When I met him and the group for coffee a few weeks later and picked it up there were some chuckles in agreement as he stated he figured he should be doing the soldering rather than me.

                So I'll probably be asking him to do it again on this one.  <smile>

                Tony
              • Tony VE6MVP
                ... 1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 3 2:25 PM
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                  At 01:44 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:
                  (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)

                  1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite snippets of answers. http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/newsgroupanswersmdb.htm.   If you don't have Microsoft Access installed I'll be happy to build you a runtime package.

                  2) Don't be afraid to redirect emails to this mailing list.  Develop a canned response for this.  Let us answer the simpler questions.  And maybe some of us can forward the tough ones to you.

                  3) Don't answer the questions as soon as you see them.  Wait a day or so especially if it's a simple answer.  By then the person may have already found the answer on their own or by searching the archives.

                  I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.

                  Don't go too cheap.   If you get very few complaints about the price then it's too cheap.  (Some people will always complain.)   If you get some complaints then it's about right.   If you get a lot of complaints then it's too expensive.

                  Tony

                • Cap Pennell
                  Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you have done and are doing for APRS. FB! Yes, a lot of appliance operators, like
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 3 2:56 PM
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                    Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you
                    have done and are doing for APRS. FB!

                    Yes, a lot of "appliance operators, like myself" will be hoping to be able
                    to buy and use "plug and play" assembled versions of the OT2. My experience
                    with APRS (and 2m packet in general) tells me that that many OT2 users will
                    be quite content with the basic (default) settings, despite the vast amounts
                    of time and energy you've invested into making this project incredibly
                    capable, flexible, configurable, and upgradeable. With us "appliance
                    operators" in mind, I hope you will consider configuration parameter
                    defaults that are quite conservative as regards the limited available
                    airtime on the VHF APRS frequency. We know conservative digipaths and
                    transmission intervals are courteous to all the other users hoping to share
                    the frequency. Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                    and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                    WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                    I know you've already thought carefully about these things too. Thanks!
                    Good luck!
                    73, Cap KE6AFE


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                    scott@...
                    Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 13:44 PM
                    To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

                    The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not
                    counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality
                    I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
                    <snip>
                  • Jason Winningham
                    ... Actually, a better default would be don t digipeat at all , which happens to be the default. -Jason kg4wsv
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 3 3:03 PM
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                      On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                      > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                      > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                      > WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                      Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                      happens to be the default.

                      -Jason
                      kg4wsv
                    • scott@opentrac.org
                      Actually I think that it s set to digipeat on MYCALL by default. The logic there is that no one s likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 3 3:35 PM
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                        Actually I think that it's set to digipeat on MYCALL by default.  The logic there is that no one's likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they need the capability then it's there.
                         
                        Scott


                        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Winningham
                        Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:04 PM
                        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                        On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                        > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                        > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                        > WIDE1-1,WIDE2- 1" would be good for starting out.

                        Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                        happens to be the default.

                        -Jason
                        kg4wsv

                      • Tony VE6MVP
                        ... Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that s another $17. So yours should be at
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 4 12:20 PM
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                          At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                          A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                          Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.   And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well.  So that's another $17.   So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.     Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                          Tony

                        • Steven Palm
                          ... I think that Scott should have a separate donate area for people who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many shekels as you want
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 4 1:08 PM
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                            On Aug 4, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Tony VE6MVP wrote:
                            > At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:
                            >> A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                            >> $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                            >> it does.
                            >
                            > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I
                            > suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's another
                            > $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.
                            > Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                            I think that Scott should have a separate "donate" area for people
                            who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many
                            shekels as you want to into the bucket. :) On the other hand, I'm
                            hoping that he leans toward not maximizing profit, but instead
                            minimizing cost but without causing any personal loss or hardship.
                            Maybe that attitude comes from my choosing to work for a non-profit,
                            so not only is my money limited, but I'm focused always on doing
                            things for the efficiency of money, not the surplus of it.

                            And indeed, this is way off topic, so I should shut up now.

                            Steve
                          • Tanner Lovelace
                            ... There s a huge psychological barrier for something that costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I d recommend not going into 3 digits.
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 6 5:35 PM
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                              On 8/4/06, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                              > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering
                              > what it does.
                              >
                              > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.
                              > And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's
                              > another $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the
                              > same comparison. Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                              There's a huge psychological barrier for something that
                              costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I'd
                              recommend not going into 3 digits. That's not to say I don't
                              think profit should be made, I'm just trying to point out some
                              considerations.

                              Personally, I'm rather dismayed by how much radio gear
                              costs these days, especially being in the computer field
                              where costs on everything go down by leaps and bounds
                              every year. (Yes, I realize there are economies of scale,
                              but that's still another barrier for getting new people into
                              the hobby.)

                              Cheers,
                              Tanner Lovelace
                              KB4TYE


                              --
                              Tanner Lovelace
                              clubjuggler at gmail dot com
                              http://wtl.wayfarer.org/
                              (fieldless) In fess two roundels in pale, a billet fesswise and an
                              increscent, all sable.
                            • n0anhasan50212
                              Scott, If it s anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I ll buy one immediately. I don t have time to do the assembly. If for no other reason, I would
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 9 5:04 AM
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                                Scott,

                                If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                supervising the TNCs.

                                Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                prefer it.

                                73,

                                ...hasan, N0AN


                                --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                easier to
                                > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                printing, the
                                > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                >
                              • Curt, WE7U
                                ... Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature! For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out and mic-in, running with the squelch open
                                Message 15 of 27 , Aug 9 5:13 AM
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                                  On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                  > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                  > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                  > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                  > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                  > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                  > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                  > prefer it.

                                  Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                  For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                  and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                  control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                  are volume and power.

                                  I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                  often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                  Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                  These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                  versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                  --
                                  Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
                                  "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                  "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
                                  "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
                                • scott@opentrac.org
                                  Yes, it ll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on. Works well. Scott _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Aug 9 7:44 AM
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                                    Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                     
                                    Scott


                                    From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                    To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                    Scott,

                                    If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                    immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                    reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                    evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                    hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                    supervising the TNCs.

                                    Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                    my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                    up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                    to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                    hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                    mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                    prefer it.

                                    73,

                                    ....hasan, N0AN

                                    --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                    > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                    easier to
                                    > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                    printing, the
                                    > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                    > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                    >

                                  • scott@opentrac.org
                                    Here s a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340 Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Aug 9 7:49 AM
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                                      Here's a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340  Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening it up.
                                       
                                      Scott


                                      From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curt, WE7U
                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:14 AM
                                      To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                      On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                      > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                      > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                      > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                      > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                      > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                      > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                      > prefer it.

                                      Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                      For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                      and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                      control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                      are volume and power.

                                      I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                      often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                      Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                      These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                      versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                      --
                                      Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo. com/~archer
                                      "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                      "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. " -- WE7U
                                      "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

                                    • J. Lance Cotton
                                      ... So what does it do with SWDCD is off? -- J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O joe@lightningflash.net http://kj5o.lightningflash.net Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Aug 9 7:51 AM
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                                        scott@... wrote:
                                        > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                        > on. Works well.

                                        So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                        --
                                        J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                        joe@...
                                        http://kj5o.lightningflash.net
                                        Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                        cookies.
                                      • scott@opentrac.org
                                        Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip. White noise or voice will trigger it. _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Aug 9 9:45 AM
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                                          Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip.  White noise or voice will trigger it.
                                           

                                          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Lance Cotton
                                          Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:52 AM
                                          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                          scott@opentrac. org wrote:
                                          > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                          > on. Works well.

                                          So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                          --
                                          J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                          joe@lightningflash. net
                                          http://kj5o. lightningflash. net
                                          Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                          cookies.

                                        • hasan schiers
                                          Thanks Scott, I can t wait! 73, ... From: scott@opentrac.org To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re:
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Aug 9 10:42 AM
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                                            Thanks Scott, I can't wait!
                                             
                                            73,
                                             
                                            ...hasan, N0AN
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: scott@...
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM
                                            Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                            Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                             
                                            Scott


                                            From: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:tracker2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                            To: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com
                                            Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                            Scott,

                                            If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                            immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                            reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                            evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                            hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                            supervising the TNCs.

                                            Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                            my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                            up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                            to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                            hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                            mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                            prefer it.

                                            73,

                                            ....hasan, N0AN

                                            --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                            > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                            easier to
                                            > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                            printing, the
                                            > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                            > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                            >

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