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Re: [tracker2] ETA?

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  • Steven Palm
    On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, ... Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until you re certain, but
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
      On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
      wrote:
      > I've been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware's
      > coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to
      > make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.

      Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until
      you're certain, but it sounds largely like software-only issues at
      this point, so you may be able to ballpark it.

      I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

      Steve
    • Tony VE6MVP
      ... Me too. Tony
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
        At 02:01 PM 2006/08/02 -0500, you wrote:

        >I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

        <aol> Me too. </aol>

        Tony
      • scott@opentrac.org
        Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it s going to be easier to pull that
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
          Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
           
          A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.
           
          I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty spiffy...
           
           
          The 'TX' and 'RX' holes might get used for LEDs instead of pots on the next version, though.  Still trying to decide if I want to do that or not.
           
          Scott
           


          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
          Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:01 PM
          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


          On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, <scott@opentrac. org> <scott@opentrac. org>
          wrote:
          > I've been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware's
          > coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to
          > make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.

          Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until
          you're certain, but it sounds largely like software-only issues at
          this point, so you may be able to ballpark it.

          I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

          Steve

        • Steven Palm
          On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, ... Well, my hands aren t the most steady, and aren t getting any better with age, so I d
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
            On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
            wrote:
            > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
            > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
            > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

            Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
            better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
            version assembled. ;)

            > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
            > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
            > it does.

            No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
            is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
            though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
            Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
            I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

            This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
            off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
            dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
            etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
            'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
            amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
            mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
            seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
            money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
            you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

            All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
            that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
            commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
            blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

            > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
            > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
            > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
            > spiffy...

            Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
            the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
            versions might be.

            Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.
          • Tony VE6MVP
            ... Please do have some assembled versions available. I m just an appliance operator. Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
              At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

              Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

              Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

              A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

              Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

              Tony
            • scott@opentrac.org
              The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality I d be
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits.  If I was going solely on a business mentality I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
                 
                John Hansen once told me that he prices his kits (including the TNC-X) as low as he can without feeling depressed every time he kits one up.  I've reached a point where the amount of time I spend on support (especially pre-sales) is a big factor in that equation.  For a little $29 kit, the OpenTracker is a reasonably complex piece of equipment, at least compared to the blinking LED type kits you might get from Ramsey for that price, and it generates a lot of emails to be answered.  The T2 is significantly more complicated (about 6 times the code right now) and will likely take a proportionately larger amount of my time.  (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)
                 
                Just about all of the money I make from this business at this point goes right back to new development.  I don't take any profit from it on a regular basis, and the money goes toward things like the new enclosures, and the speaker mic cables that I imported to sell for half of MFJ's price - stuff that I think benefits the APRS community and that I wouldn't be able to do without the working capital.  Shipping charges alone on those two projects came to about $400.  Server rental is my biggest overhead expense right now, and even that provides some benefit - aside from the store, the server also hosts the APRS Wiki, and a large chunk of bandwidth is devoted to APRS TV.
                 
                I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.
                 
                Scott


                From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
                Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 6:02 AM
                To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@opentrac. org> <scott@opentrac. org>
                wrote:
                > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
                > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
                > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

                Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
                better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
                version assembled. ;)

                > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                > it does.

                No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
                is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
                though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
                Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
                I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

                This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
                off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
                dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
                etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
                'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
                amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
                mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
                seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
                money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
                you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

                All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
                that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
                commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
                blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

                > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
                > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
                > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
                > spiffy...

                Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
                the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
                versions might be.

                Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.

              • scott@opentrac.org
                I want to start with kits because it s a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board. Once I ve got a fair number of units in regular use I ll feel
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                  I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
                   
                  Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?
                   
                  Scott


                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony VE6MVP
                  Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:48 AM
                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

                  At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                  Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

                  Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

                  A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                  Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

                  Tony

                • Steven Palm
                  On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, ... And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to stick around
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                    On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
                    wrote:
                    > I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need
                    > to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth
                    > doing. Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at
                    > least gives me a sanity check.

                    And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to
                    stick around because this is still fun and interesting for you to
                    do. :) I'll re-iterate what I put originally and say that I was NOT
                    attacking your or your model, just curious where you came down on the
                    determination.

                    I've told you in private emails before, and I'll say it publicly, I
                    think what you are doing and providing is an INCREDIBLE value, and I
                    don't want you to have any other impression. In retrospect, I should
                    have fired that last message off to you directly instead of to the
                    list, but now I think that everyone can get some idea of where your
                    heart/mind (and wallet? <smile>) is.

                    Thanks again, and I'll stop bugging you now so you have time to
                    work on getting the tracker2 out. :)

                    Steve
                  • Tony VE6MVP
                    ... Fair enough. I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X. (This was before I found out about
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                      At 01:55 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:

                      I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
                       
                      Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?

                      Fair enough.  

                      I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X.    (This was before I found out about the Tracker2.)  He bluntly told me that he didn't recommend I do so.  However he'd be happy to loan me the equipment to do so such as the magnifier, temp controlled soldering iron and so forth.   Then he went on and volunteered to build it for me.  When I met him and the group for coffee a few weeks later and picked it up there were some chuckles in agreement as he stated he figured he should be doing the soldering rather than me.

                      So I'll probably be asking him to do it again on this one.  <smile>

                      Tony
                    • Tony VE6MVP
                      ... 1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                        At 01:44 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:
                        (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)

                        1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite snippets of answers. http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/newsgroupanswersmdb.htm.   If you don't have Microsoft Access installed I'll be happy to build you a runtime package.

                        2) Don't be afraid to redirect emails to this mailing list.  Develop a canned response for this.  Let us answer the simpler questions.  And maybe some of us can forward the tough ones to you.

                        3) Don't answer the questions as soon as you see them.  Wait a day or so especially if it's a simple answer.  By then the person may have already found the answer on their own or by searching the archives.

                        I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.

                        Don't go too cheap.   If you get very few complaints about the price then it's too cheap.  (Some people will always complain.)   If you get some complaints then it's about right.   If you get a lot of complaints then it's too expensive.

                        Tony

                      • Cap Pennell
                        Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you have done and are doing for APRS. FB! Yes, a lot of appliance operators, like
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                          Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you
                          have done and are doing for APRS. FB!

                          Yes, a lot of "appliance operators, like myself" will be hoping to be able
                          to buy and use "plug and play" assembled versions of the OT2. My experience
                          with APRS (and 2m packet in general) tells me that that many OT2 users will
                          be quite content with the basic (default) settings, despite the vast amounts
                          of time and energy you've invested into making this project incredibly
                          capable, flexible, configurable, and upgradeable. With us "appliance
                          operators" in mind, I hope you will consider configuration parameter
                          defaults that are quite conservative as regards the limited available
                          airtime on the VHF APRS frequency. We know conservative digipaths and
                          transmission intervals are courteous to all the other users hoping to share
                          the frequency. Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                          and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                          WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                          I know you've already thought carefully about these things too. Thanks!
                          Good luck!
                          73, Cap KE6AFE


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                          scott@...
                          Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 13:44 PM
                          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

                          The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not
                          counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality
                          I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
                          <snip>
                        • Jason Winningham
                          ... Actually, a better default would be don t digipeat at all , which happens to be the default. -Jason kg4wsv
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                            On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                            > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                            > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                            > WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                            Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                            happens to be the default.

                            -Jason
                            kg4wsv
                          • scott@opentrac.org
                            Actually I think that it s set to digipeat on MYCALL by default. The logic there is that no one s likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
                              Actually I think that it's set to digipeat on MYCALL by default.  The logic there is that no one's likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they need the capability then it's there.
                               
                              Scott


                              From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Winningham
                              Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:04 PM
                              To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                              On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                              > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                              > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                              > WIDE1-1,WIDE2- 1" would be good for starting out.

                              Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                              happens to be the default.

                              -Jason
                              kg4wsv

                            • Tony VE6MVP
                              ... Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that s another $17. So yours should be at
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
                                At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                                A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                                Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.   And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well.  So that's another $17.   So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.     Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                Tony

                              • Steven Palm
                                ... I think that Scott should have a separate donate area for people who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many shekels as you want
                                Message 15 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
                                  On Aug 4, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Tony VE6MVP wrote:
                                  > At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:
                                  >> A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                                  >> $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                                  >> it does.
                                  >
                                  > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I
                                  > suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's another
                                  > $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.
                                  > Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                  I think that Scott should have a separate "donate" area for people
                                  who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many
                                  shekels as you want to into the bucket. :) On the other hand, I'm
                                  hoping that he leans toward not maximizing profit, but instead
                                  minimizing cost but without causing any personal loss or hardship.
                                  Maybe that attitude comes from my choosing to work for a non-profit,
                                  so not only is my money limited, but I'm focused always on doing
                                  things for the efficiency of money, not the surplus of it.

                                  And indeed, this is way off topic, so I should shut up now.

                                  Steve
                                • Tanner Lovelace
                                  ... There s a huge psychological barrier for something that costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I d recommend not going into 3 digits.
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Aug 6, 2006
                                    On 8/4/06, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                                    > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering
                                    > what it does.
                                    >
                                    > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.
                                    > And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's
                                    > another $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the
                                    > same comparison. Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                    There's a huge psychological barrier for something that
                                    costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I'd
                                    recommend not going into 3 digits. That's not to say I don't
                                    think profit should be made, I'm just trying to point out some
                                    considerations.

                                    Personally, I'm rather dismayed by how much radio gear
                                    costs these days, especially being in the computer field
                                    where costs on everything go down by leaps and bounds
                                    every year. (Yes, I realize there are economies of scale,
                                    but that's still another barrier for getting new people into
                                    the hobby.)

                                    Cheers,
                                    Tanner Lovelace
                                    KB4TYE


                                    --
                                    Tanner Lovelace
                                    clubjuggler at gmail dot com
                                    http://wtl.wayfarer.org/
                                    (fieldless) In fess two roundels in pale, a billet fesswise and an
                                    increscent, all sable.
                                  • n0anhasan50212
                                    Scott, If it s anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I ll buy one immediately. I don t have time to do the assembly. If for no other reason, I would
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                      Scott,

                                      If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                      immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                      reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                      evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                      hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                      supervising the TNCs.

                                      Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                      my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                      up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                      to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                      hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                      mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                      prefer it.

                                      73,

                                      ...hasan, N0AN


                                      --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                      > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                      easier to
                                      > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                      printing, the
                                      > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                      > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                      >
                                    • Curt, WE7U
                                      ... Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature! For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out and mic-in, running with the squelch open
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                        On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                        > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                        > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                        > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                        > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                        > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                        > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                        > prefer it.

                                        Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                        For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                        and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                        control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                        are volume and power.

                                        I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                        often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                        Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                        These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                        versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                        --
                                        Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
                                        "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                        "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
                                        "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
                                      • scott@opentrac.org
                                        Yes, it ll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on. Works well. Scott _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                          Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                           
                                          Scott


                                          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                          Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                          Scott,

                                          If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                          immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                          reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                          evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                          hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                          supervising the TNCs.

                                          Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                          my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                          up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                          to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                          hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                          mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                          prefer it.

                                          73,

                                          ....hasan, N0AN

                                          --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                          > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                          easier to
                                          > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                          printing, the
                                          > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                          > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                          >

                                        • scott@opentrac.org
                                          Here s a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340 Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                            Here's a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340  Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening it up.
                                             
                                            Scott


                                            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curt, WE7U
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:14 AM
                                            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                            On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                            > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                            > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                            > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                            > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                            > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                            > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                            > prefer it.

                                            Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                            For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                            and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                            control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                            are volume and power.

                                            I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                            often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                            Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                            These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                            versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                            --
                                            Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo. com/~archer
                                            "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                            "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. " -- WE7U
                                            "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

                                          • J. Lance Cotton
                                            ... So what does it do with SWDCD is off? -- J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O joe@lightningflash.net http://kj5o.lightningflash.net Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                              scott@... wrote:
                                              > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                              > on. Works well.

                                              So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                              --
                                              J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                              joe@...
                                              http://kj5o.lightningflash.net
                                              Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                              cookies.
                                            • scott@opentrac.org
                                              Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip. White noise or voice will trigger it. _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                                Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip.  White noise or voice will trigger it.
                                                 

                                                From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Lance Cotton
                                                Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:52 AM
                                                To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                scott@opentrac. org wrote:
                                                > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                                > on. Works well.

                                                So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                                --
                                                J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                                joe@lightningflash. net
                                                http://kj5o. lightningflash. net
                                                Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                                cookies.

                                              • hasan schiers
                                                Thanks Scott, I can t wait! 73, ... From: scott@opentrac.org To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re:
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                                  Thanks Scott, I can't wait!
                                                   
                                                  73,
                                                   
                                                  ...hasan, N0AN
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: scott@...
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM
                                                  Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                  Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                                   
                                                  Scott


                                                  From: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:tracker2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                                  To: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com
                                                  Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                  Scott,

                                                  If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                                  immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                                  reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                                  evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                                  hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                                  supervising the TNCs.

                                                  Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                                  my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                                  up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                                  to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                                  hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                                  mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                                  prefer it.

                                                  73,

                                                  ....hasan, N0AN

                                                  --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                                  > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                                  easier to
                                                  > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                                  printing, the
                                                  > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                                  > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                                  >

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