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RE: [tracker2] ETA?

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  • scott@opentrac.org
    I ve been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware s coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to make sure the packet decode
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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      I've been hoping to get a kit out this month.  The firmware's coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.
       
      As for features, see https://www.argentdata.com/tracker2/ or the article in the TAPR PSR a couple of months ago.
       
      Scott


      From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
      Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 10:27 AM
      To: tracker2@...
      Subject: [tracker2] ETA?

      I looked though the archives, and outside of "Before Dayton", I was
      wondering what the estimated time of arrival for a finished OT2 might
      be, and what the projected kit price may be. I really like the look
      of the case, Scott. Good work even it was a bit more than you were
      planning on.

      And is there a summary of it's proposed features? Right now I just
      know it will be basically an OT1 with a KISS TNC that can receive
      both KISS TNC data and a GPS data stream? Surely it will beat having
      to put a KPC-3+ in the car just to do full APRS, and probably even
      beat out the TNC-X package?

      Steve

    • Steven Palm
      On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, ... Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until you re certain, but
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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        On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
        wrote:
        > I've been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware's
        > coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to
        > make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.

        Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until
        you're certain, but it sounds largely like software-only issues at
        this point, so you may be able to ballpark it.

        I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

        Steve
      • Tony VE6MVP
        ... Me too. Tony
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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          At 02:01 PM 2006/08/02 -0500, you wrote:

          >I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

          <aol> Me too. </aol>

          Tony
        • scott@opentrac.org
          Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it s going to be easier to pull that
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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            Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
             
            A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.
             
            I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty spiffy...
             
             
            The 'TX' and 'RX' holes might get used for LEDs instead of pots on the next version, though.  Still trying to decide if I want to do that or not.
             
            Scott
             


            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
            Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:01 PM
            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


            On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, <scott@opentrac. org> <scott@opentrac. org>
            wrote:
            > I've been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware's
            > coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to
            > make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.

            Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until
            you're certain, but it sounds largely like software-only issues at
            this point, so you may be able to ballpark it.

            I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

            Steve

          • Steven Palm
            On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, ... Well, my hands aren t the most steady, and aren t getting any better with age, so I d
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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              On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
              wrote:
              > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
              > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
              > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

              Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
              better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
              version assembled. ;)

              > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
              > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
              > it does.

              No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
              is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
              though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
              Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
              I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

              This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
              off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
              dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
              etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
              'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
              amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
              mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
              seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
              money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
              you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

              All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
              that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
              commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
              blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

              > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
              > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
              > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
              > spiffy...

              Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
              the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
              versions might be.

              Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.
            • Tony VE6MVP
              ... Please do have some assembled versions available. I m just an appliance operator. Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

                Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

                A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

                Tony
              • scott@opentrac.org
                The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality I d be
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                  The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits.  If I was going solely on a business mentality I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
                   
                  John Hansen once told me that he prices his kits (including the TNC-X) as low as he can without feeling depressed every time he kits one up.  I've reached a point where the amount of time I spend on support (especially pre-sales) is a big factor in that equation.  For a little $29 kit, the OpenTracker is a reasonably complex piece of equipment, at least compared to the blinking LED type kits you might get from Ramsey for that price, and it generates a lot of emails to be answered.  The T2 is significantly more complicated (about 6 times the code right now) and will likely take a proportionately larger amount of my time.  (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)
                   
                  Just about all of the money I make from this business at this point goes right back to new development.  I don't take any profit from it on a regular basis, and the money goes toward things like the new enclosures, and the speaker mic cables that I imported to sell for half of MFJ's price - stuff that I think benefits the APRS community and that I wouldn't be able to do without the working capital.  Shipping charges alone on those two projects came to about $400.  Server rental is my biggest overhead expense right now, and even that provides some benefit - aside from the store, the server also hosts the APRS Wiki, and a large chunk of bandwidth is devoted to APRS TV.
                   
                  I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.
                   
                  Scott


                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
                  Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 6:02 AM
                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                  On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@opentrac. org> <scott@opentrac. org>
                  wrote:
                  > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
                  > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
                  > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

                  Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
                  better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
                  version assembled. ;)

                  > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                  > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                  > it does.

                  No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
                  is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
                  though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
                  Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
                  I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

                  This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
                  off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
                  dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
                  etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
                  'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
                  amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
                  mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
                  seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
                  money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
                  you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

                  All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
                  that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
                  commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
                  blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

                  > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
                  > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
                  > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
                  > spiffy...

                  Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
                  the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
                  versions might be.

                  Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.

                • scott@opentrac.org
                  I want to start with kits because it s a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board. Once I ve got a fair number of units in regular use I ll feel
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                    I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
                     
                    Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?
                     
                    Scott


                    From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony VE6MVP
                    Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:48 AM
                    To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

                    At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                    Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

                    Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

                    A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                    Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

                    Tony

                  • Steven Palm
                    On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, ... And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to stick around
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                      On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
                      wrote:
                      > I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need
                      > to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth
                      > doing. Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at
                      > least gives me a sanity check.

                      And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to
                      stick around because this is still fun and interesting for you to
                      do. :) I'll re-iterate what I put originally and say that I was NOT
                      attacking your or your model, just curious where you came down on the
                      determination.

                      I've told you in private emails before, and I'll say it publicly, I
                      think what you are doing and providing is an INCREDIBLE value, and I
                      don't want you to have any other impression. In retrospect, I should
                      have fired that last message off to you directly instead of to the
                      list, but now I think that everyone can get some idea of where your
                      heart/mind (and wallet? <smile>) is.

                      Thanks again, and I'll stop bugging you now so you have time to
                      work on getting the tracker2 out. :)

                      Steve
                    • Tony VE6MVP
                      ... Fair enough. I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X. (This was before I found out about
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                        At 01:55 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:

                        I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
                         
                        Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?

                        Fair enough.  

                        I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X.    (This was before I found out about the Tracker2.)  He bluntly told me that he didn't recommend I do so.  However he'd be happy to loan me the equipment to do so such as the magnifier, temp controlled soldering iron and so forth.   Then he went on and volunteered to build it for me.  When I met him and the group for coffee a few weeks later and picked it up there were some chuckles in agreement as he stated he figured he should be doing the soldering rather than me.

                        So I'll probably be asking him to do it again on this one.  <smile>

                        Tony
                      • Tony VE6MVP
                        ... 1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                          At 01:44 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:
                          (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)

                          1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite snippets of answers. http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/newsgroupanswersmdb.htm.   If you don't have Microsoft Access installed I'll be happy to build you a runtime package.

                          2) Don't be afraid to redirect emails to this mailing list.  Develop a canned response for this.  Let us answer the simpler questions.  And maybe some of us can forward the tough ones to you.

                          3) Don't answer the questions as soon as you see them.  Wait a day or so especially if it's a simple answer.  By then the person may have already found the answer on their own or by searching the archives.

                          I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.

                          Don't go too cheap.   If you get very few complaints about the price then it's too cheap.  (Some people will always complain.)   If you get some complaints then it's about right.   If you get a lot of complaints then it's too expensive.

                          Tony

                        • Cap Pennell
                          Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you have done and are doing for APRS. FB! Yes, a lot of appliance operators, like
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                            Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you
                            have done and are doing for APRS. FB!

                            Yes, a lot of "appliance operators, like myself" will be hoping to be able
                            to buy and use "plug and play" assembled versions of the OT2. My experience
                            with APRS (and 2m packet in general) tells me that that many OT2 users will
                            be quite content with the basic (default) settings, despite the vast amounts
                            of time and energy you've invested into making this project incredibly
                            capable, flexible, configurable, and upgradeable. With us "appliance
                            operators" in mind, I hope you will consider configuration parameter
                            defaults that are quite conservative as regards the limited available
                            airtime on the VHF APRS frequency. We know conservative digipaths and
                            transmission intervals are courteous to all the other users hoping to share
                            the frequency. Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                            and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                            WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                            I know you've already thought carefully about these things too. Thanks!
                            Good luck!
                            73, Cap KE6AFE


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                            scott@...
                            Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 13:44 PM
                            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

                            The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not
                            counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality
                            I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
                            <snip>
                          • Jason Winningham
                            ... Actually, a better default would be don t digipeat at all , which happens to be the default. -Jason kg4wsv
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                              On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                              > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                              > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                              > WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                              Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                              happens to be the default.

                              -Jason
                              kg4wsv
                            • scott@opentrac.org
                              Actually I think that it s set to digipeat on MYCALL by default. The logic there is that no one s likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                Actually I think that it's set to digipeat on MYCALL by default.  The logic there is that no one's likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they need the capability then it's there.
                                 
                                Scott


                                From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Winningham
                                Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:04 PM
                                To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                                On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                                > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                                > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                                > WIDE1-1,WIDE2- 1" would be good for starting out.

                                Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                                happens to be the default.

                                -Jason
                                kg4wsv

                              • Tony VE6MVP
                                ... Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that s another $17. So yours should be at
                                Message 15 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
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                                  At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                                  A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                                  Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.   And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well.  So that's another $17.   So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.     Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                  Tony

                                • Steven Palm
                                  ... I think that Scott should have a separate donate area for people who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many shekels as you want
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
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                                    On Aug 4, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Tony VE6MVP wrote:
                                    > At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:
                                    >> A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                                    >> $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                                    >> it does.
                                    >
                                    > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I
                                    > suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's another
                                    > $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.
                                    > Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                    I think that Scott should have a separate "donate" area for people
                                    who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many
                                    shekels as you want to into the bucket. :) On the other hand, I'm
                                    hoping that he leans toward not maximizing profit, but instead
                                    minimizing cost but without causing any personal loss or hardship.
                                    Maybe that attitude comes from my choosing to work for a non-profit,
                                    so not only is my money limited, but I'm focused always on doing
                                    things for the efficiency of money, not the surplus of it.

                                    And indeed, this is way off topic, so I should shut up now.

                                    Steve
                                  • Tanner Lovelace
                                    ... There s a huge psychological barrier for something that costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I d recommend not going into 3 digits.
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Aug 6, 2006
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                                      On 8/4/06, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                                      > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering
                                      > what it does.
                                      >
                                      > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.
                                      > And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's
                                      > another $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the
                                      > same comparison. Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                      There's a huge psychological barrier for something that
                                      costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I'd
                                      recommend not going into 3 digits. That's not to say I don't
                                      think profit should be made, I'm just trying to point out some
                                      considerations.

                                      Personally, I'm rather dismayed by how much radio gear
                                      costs these days, especially being in the computer field
                                      where costs on everything go down by leaps and bounds
                                      every year. (Yes, I realize there are economies of scale,
                                      but that's still another barrier for getting new people into
                                      the hobby.)

                                      Cheers,
                                      Tanner Lovelace
                                      KB4TYE


                                      --
                                      Tanner Lovelace
                                      clubjuggler at gmail dot com
                                      http://wtl.wayfarer.org/
                                      (fieldless) In fess two roundels in pale, a billet fesswise and an
                                      increscent, all sable.
                                    • n0anhasan50212
                                      Scott, If it s anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I ll buy one immediately. I don t have time to do the assembly. If for no other reason, I would
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                        Scott,

                                        If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                        immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                        reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                        evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                        hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                        supervising the TNCs.

                                        Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                        my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                        up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                        to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                        hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                        mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                        prefer it.

                                        73,

                                        ...hasan, N0AN


                                        --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                        > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                        easier to
                                        > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                        printing, the
                                        > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                        > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                        >
                                      • Curt, WE7U
                                        ... Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature! For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out and mic-in, running with the squelch open
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                          On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                          > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                          > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                          > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                          > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                          > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                          > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                          > prefer it.

                                          Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                          For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                          and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                          control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                          are volume and power.

                                          I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                          often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                          Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                          These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                          versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                          --
                                          Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
                                          "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                          "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
                                          "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
                                        • scott@opentrac.org
                                          Yes, it ll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on. Works well. Scott _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                            Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                             
                                            Scott


                                            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                            Scott,

                                            If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                            immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                            reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                            evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                            hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                            supervising the TNCs.

                                            Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                            my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                            up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                            to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                            hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                            mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                            prefer it.

                                            73,

                                            ....hasan, N0AN

                                            --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                            > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                            easier to
                                            > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                            printing, the
                                            > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                            > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                            >

                                          • scott@opentrac.org
                                            Here s a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340 Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                              Here's a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340  Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening it up.
                                               
                                              Scott


                                              From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curt, WE7U
                                              Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:14 AM
                                              To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                              On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                              > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                              > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                              > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                              > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                              > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                              > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                              > prefer it.

                                              Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                              For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                              and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                              control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                              are volume and power.

                                              I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                              often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                              Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                              These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                              versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                              --
                                              Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo. com/~archer
                                              "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                              "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. " -- WE7U
                                              "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

                                            • J. Lance Cotton
                                              ... So what does it do with SWDCD is off? -- J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O joe@lightningflash.net http://kj5o.lightningflash.net Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                                scott@... wrote:
                                                > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                                > on. Works well.

                                                So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                                --
                                                J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                                joe@...
                                                http://kj5o.lightningflash.net
                                                Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                                cookies.
                                              • scott@opentrac.org
                                                Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip. White noise or voice will trigger it. _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                                  Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip.  White noise or voice will trigger it.
                                                   

                                                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Lance Cotton
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:52 AM
                                                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                  scott@opentrac. org wrote:
                                                  > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                                  > on. Works well.

                                                  So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                                  --
                                                  J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                                  joe@lightningflash. net
                                                  http://kj5o. lightningflash. net
                                                  Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                                  cookies.

                                                • hasan schiers
                                                  Thanks Scott, I can t wait! 73, ... From: scott@opentrac.org To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re:
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                                    Thanks Scott, I can't wait!
                                                     
                                                    73,
                                                     
                                                    ...hasan, N0AN
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: scott@...
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM
                                                    Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                    Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                                     
                                                    Scott


                                                    From: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:tracker2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                                    To: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com
                                                    Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                    Scott,

                                                    If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                                    immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                                    reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                                    evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                                    hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                                    supervising the TNCs.

                                                    Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                                    my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                                    up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                                    to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                                    hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                                    mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                                    prefer it.

                                                    73,

                                                    ....hasan, N0AN

                                                    --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                                    > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                                    easier to
                                                    > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                                    printing, the
                                                    > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                                    > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                                    >

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