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ETA?

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  • Steven Palm
    I looked though the archives, and outside of Before Dayton , I was wondering what the estimated time of arrival for a finished OT2 might be, and what the
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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      I looked though the archives, and outside of "Before Dayton", I was
      wondering what the estimated time of arrival for a finished OT2 might
      be, and what the projected kit price may be. I really like the look
      of the case, Scott. Good work even it was a bit more than you were
      planning on.

      And is there a summary of it's proposed features? Right now I just
      know it will be basically an OT1 with a KISS TNC that can receive
      both KISS TNC data and a GPS data stream? Surely it will beat having
      to put a KPC-3+ in the car just to do full APRS, and probably even
      beat out the TNC-X package?

      Steve
    • Jason Winningham
      ... If you could roll a KPC-3+ and a TNC-X complete with XDigi and Xtracker (which is impossible, it s either-or) all into the same box, the T2 as-is (in beta)
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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        On Aug 2, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Steven Palm wrote:

        > And is there a summary of it's proposed features? Right now I just
        > know it will be basically an OT1 with a KISS TNC that can receive
        > both KISS TNC data and a GPS data stream? Surely it will beat having
        > to put a KPC-3+ in the car just to do full APRS, and probably even
        > beat out the TNC-X package?

        If you could roll a KPC-3+ and a TNC-X complete with XDigi and Xtracker
        (which is impossible, it's either-or) all into the same box, the T2
        as-is (in beta) would beat the pants off of it.

        The T2 does KISS and "command mode". It speaks NMEA and Garmin binary.
        It digipeats in an intelligent manner while you're simultaneously
        using it for a TNC and a tracker. It can switch a bunch of power (20A,
        IIRC) with an optional IC. It's configurable over the air.

        The only reason I'm not trying to order another one right now is I
        don't have a radio to put it on. The hamfest is in a couple of weeks,
        so I may fix that. (:

        -Jason
        kg4wsv
      • scott@opentrac.org
        Actually the VN920 chips I m using now are rated at 30A. I think that d be pushing it for heat dissipation though. _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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          Actually the VN920 chips I'm using now are rated at 30A.  I think that'd be pushing it for heat dissipation though.


          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Winningham
          Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 10:47 AM
          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


          On Aug 2, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Steven Palm wrote:

          > And is there a summary of it's proposed features? Right now I just
          > know it will be basically an OT1 with a KISS TNC that can receive
          > both KISS TNC data and a GPS data stream? Surely it will beat having
          > to put a KPC-3+ in the car just to do full APRS, and probably even
          > beat out the TNC-X package?

          If you could roll a KPC-3+ and a TNC-X complete with XDigi and Xtracker
          (which is impossible, it's either-or) all into the same box, the T2
          as-is (in beta) would beat the pants off of it.

          The T2 does KISS and "command mode". It speaks NMEA and Garmin binary.
          It digipeats in an intelligent manner while you're simultaneously
          using it for a TNC and a tracker. It can switch a bunch of power (20A,
          IIRC) with an optional IC. It's configurable over the air.

          The only reason I'm not trying to order another one right now is I
          don't have a radio to put it on. The hamfest is in a couple of weeks,
          so I may fix that. (:

          -Jason
          kg4wsv

        • scott@opentrac.org
          I ve been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware s coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to make sure the packet decode
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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            I've been hoping to get a kit out this month.  The firmware's coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.
             
            As for features, see https://www.argentdata.com/tracker2/ or the article in the TAPR PSR a couple of months ago.
             
            Scott


            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
            Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 10:27 AM
            To: tracker2@...
            Subject: [tracker2] ETA?

            I looked though the archives, and outside of "Before Dayton", I was
            wondering what the estimated time of arrival for a finished OT2 might
            be, and what the projected kit price may be. I really like the look
            of the case, Scott. Good work even it was a bit more than you were
            planning on.

            And is there a summary of it's proposed features? Right now I just
            know it will be basically an OT1 with a KISS TNC that can receive
            both KISS TNC data and a GPS data stream? Surely it will beat having
            to put a KPC-3+ in the car just to do full APRS, and probably even
            beat out the TNC-X package?

            Steve

          • Steven Palm
            On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, ... Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until you re certain, but
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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              On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
              wrote:
              > I've been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware's
              > coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to
              > make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.

              Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until
              you're certain, but it sounds largely like software-only issues at
              this point, so you may be able to ballpark it.

              I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

              Steve
            • Tony VE6MVP
              ... Me too. Tony
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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                At 02:01 PM 2006/08/02 -0500, you wrote:

                >I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

                <aol> Me too. </aol>

                Tony
              • scott@opentrac.org
                Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it s going to be easier to pull that
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 2, 2006
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                  Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                   
                  A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.
                   
                  I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty spiffy...
                   
                   
                  The 'TX' and 'RX' holes might get used for LEDs instead of pots on the next version, though.  Still trying to decide if I want to do that or not.
                   
                  Scott
                   


                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:01 PM
                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                  On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:04 PM, <scott@opentrac. org> <scott@opentrac. org>
                  wrote:
                  > I've been hoping to get a kit out this month. The firmware's
                  > coming together pretty well, but I want to do some more testing to
                  > make sure the packet decode performance at least matches a TNC2.

                  Is there an estimated price? I can understand holding off until
                  you're certain, but it sounds largely like software-only issues at
                  this point, so you may be able to ballpark it.

                  I'll order one the moment I hear it's available.

                  Steve

                • Steven Palm
                  On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, ... Well, my hands aren t the most steady, and aren t getting any better with age, so I d
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                    On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
                    > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
                    > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

                    Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
                    better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
                    version assembled. ;)

                    > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                    > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                    > it does.

                    No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
                    is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
                    though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
                    Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
                    I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

                    This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
                    off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
                    dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
                    etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
                    'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
                    amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
                    mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
                    seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
                    money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
                    you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

                    All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
                    that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
                    commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
                    blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

                    > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
                    > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
                    > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
                    > spiffy...

                    Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
                    the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
                    versions might be.

                    Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.
                  • Tony VE6MVP
                    ... Please do have some assembled versions available. I m just an appliance operator. Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                      At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                      Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

                      Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

                      A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                      Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

                      Tony
                    • scott@opentrac.org
                      The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality I d be
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                        The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not counting mine) for the kits.  If I was going solely on a business mentality I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
                         
                        John Hansen once told me that he prices his kits (including the TNC-X) as low as he can without feeling depressed every time he kits one up.  I've reached a point where the amount of time I spend on support (especially pre-sales) is a big factor in that equation.  For a little $29 kit, the OpenTracker is a reasonably complex piece of equipment, at least compared to the blinking LED type kits you might get from Ramsey for that price, and it generates a lot of emails to be answered.  The T2 is significantly more complicated (about 6 times the code right now) and will likely take a proportionately larger amount of my time.  (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)
                         
                        Just about all of the money I make from this business at this point goes right back to new development.  I don't take any profit from it on a regular basis, and the money goes toward things like the new enclosures, and the speaker mic cables that I imported to sell for half of MFJ's price - stuff that I think benefits the APRS community and that I wouldn't be able to do without the working capital.  Shipping charges alone on those two projects came to about $400.  Server rental is my biggest overhead expense right now, and even that provides some benefit - aside from the store, the server also hosts the APRS Wiki, and a large chunk of bandwidth is devoted to APRS TV.
                         
                        I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.
                         
                        Scott


                        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Palm
                        Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 6:02 AM
                        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                        On Aug 3, 2006, at 1:38 AM, <scott@opentrac. org> <scott@opentrac. org>
                        wrote:
                        > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled
                        > version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's
                        > going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.

                        Well, my hands aren't the most steady, and aren't getting any
                        better with age, so I'd be quite happy to have a surface mount
                        version assembled. ;)

                        > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                        > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                        > it does.

                        No, I think you're quite right on that point. And your feature set
                        is a step above what TNC-X does. You may have low demand for the KIT
                        though, if you offer a finished SMT version for the same or less.
                        Maybe, maybe not, some people do thoroughly enjoy putting it together
                        I suppose, and it's not always just about saving a few bucks.

                        This is not a shot at you at all, so please don't think I'm firing
                        off an attack. I'd expect, rather, that your pricing would be more
                        dictated by what you have invested in them, primarily parts costs/
                        etc, and you'd work from that point. HAM mentality versus a
                        'business' mentality. I guess good old capitalism dictates a certain
                        amount of "what the competition is, so I can get around this"
                        mentality too. I have no idea what sort of costs the TNC-X guys are
                        seeing for their parts/etc fees, and I have no idea what kind of
                        money you already have invested through your beta process/etc that
                        you do have to pay off from sales of the product.

                        All in all, a good price point, though, especially if you compare
                        that (and features) to what you could get by paying for the
                        commercial $175+ KPC-3+. For APRS work the product you are designing
                        blows it away and seemingly about a third of the price.

                        > I can't remember if I already posted it to this group or not (or
                        > was that what started this thread?), but the OT1m cases (which also
                        > fit the OT2m beta boards) are now shipping, and they're pretty
                        > spiffy...

                        Yes, that is what got my salivary glands going. :) I saw how nice
                        the cases turned out and it made me wonder how close the finalized
                        versions might be.

                        Thanks again, Scott, for your hard development work.

                      • scott@opentrac.org
                        I want to start with kits because it s a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board. Once I ve got a fair number of units in regular use I ll feel
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                          I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
                           
                          Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?
                           
                          Scott


                          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony VE6MVP
                          Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:48 AM
                          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

                          At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                          Still debating on the price.  I want to have *some* assembled version available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be easier to pull that off for a surface mount version.  Even with custom printing, the OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.

                          Please do have some assembled versions available.  I'm just an "appliance" operator.  <smile>   Mind you I have soldered my own cable and power ends.   Just not any electronics.

                          A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                          Too cheap.   You have much more functionality.  

                          Tony

                        • Steven Palm
                          On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, ... And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to stick around
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                            On Aug 3, 2006, at 3:44 PM, <scott@...> <scott@...>
                            wrote:
                            > I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need
                            > to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth
                            > doing. Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at
                            > least gives me a sanity check.

                            And we want you to remain both sane, and we want you to be able to
                            stick around because this is still fun and interesting for you to
                            do. :) I'll re-iterate what I put originally and say that I was NOT
                            attacking your or your model, just curious where you came down on the
                            determination.

                            I've told you in private emails before, and I'll say it publicly, I
                            think what you are doing and providing is an INCREDIBLE value, and I
                            don't want you to have any other impression. In retrospect, I should
                            have fired that last message off to you directly instead of to the
                            list, but now I think that everyone can get some idea of where your
                            heart/mind (and wallet? <smile>) is.

                            Thanks again, and I'll stop bugging you now so you have time to
                            work on getting the tracker2 out. :)

                            Steve
                          • Tony VE6MVP
                            ... Fair enough. I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X. (This was before I found out about
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                              At 01:55 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:

                              I want to start with kits because it's a lot easier to rework a kit than an assembled board.  Once I've got a fair number of units in regular use I'll feel better about committing to mass production.  Not to mention the fact that between GPS purchases and enclosure manufacturing my working capital has been seriously depleted and will need a bit to recover.
                               
                              Eventually it probably won't even make sense to offer a kit.  If I can get enough of them built at one time, assembly is pretty cheap, especially for SMT.  How many people want to spend an hour soldering to save 10%?

                              Fair enough.  

                              I had asked a local ham if my next to non existent soldering skills would be sufficient to do the TNC-X.    (This was before I found out about the Tracker2.)  He bluntly told me that he didn't recommend I do so.  However he'd be happy to loan me the equipment to do so such as the magnifier, temp controlled soldering iron and so forth.   Then he went on and volunteered to build it for me.  When I met him and the group for coffee a few weeks later and picked it up there were some chuckles in agreement as he stated he figured he should be doing the soldering rather than me.

                              So I'll probably be asking him to do it again on this one.  <smile>

                              Tony
                            • Tony VE6MVP
                              ... 1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                At 01:44 PM 2006/08/03 -0700, you wrote:
                                (FWIW, I really appreciate the folks on the OpenTracker group who jump in and answer some of the questions, especially when it comes to radio-specific questions about rigs I don't have access to.)

                                1) Newsgroup Answers MDB - I designed the MDB to assist frequent newsgroup answerers, such as MVPs, in quickly locating and pasting in their favourite snippets of answers. http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/newsgroupanswersmdb.htm.   If you don't have Microsoft Access installed I'll be happy to build you a runtime package.

                                2) Don't be afraid to redirect emails to this mailing list.  Develop a canned response for this.  Let us answer the simpler questions.  And maybe some of us can forward the tough ones to you.

                                3) Don't answer the questions as soon as you see them.  Wait a day or so especially if it's a simple answer.  By then the person may have already found the answer on their own or by searching the archives.

                                I'm not out to charge whatever the market will bear, but I do need to bring in enough money to keep growing and make it all worth doing.  Comparing what I'm selling to what else is out there at least gives me a sanity check.

                                Don't go too cheap.   If you get very few complaints about the price then it's too cheap.  (Some people will always complain.)   If you get some complaints then it's about right.   If you get a lot of complaints then it's too expensive.

                                Tony

                              • Cap Pennell
                                Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you have done and are doing for APRS. FB! Yes, a lot of appliance operators, like
                                Message 15 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                  Thanks very much, Scott. I, for one, sure do appreciate all the work you
                                  have done and are doing for APRS. FB!

                                  Yes, a lot of "appliance operators, like myself" will be hoping to be able
                                  to buy and use "plug and play" assembled versions of the OT2. My experience
                                  with APRS (and 2m packet in general) tells me that that many OT2 users will
                                  be quite content with the basic (default) settings, despite the vast amounts
                                  of time and energy you've invested into making this project incredibly
                                  capable, flexible, configurable, and upgradeable. With us "appliance
                                  operators" in mind, I hope you will consider configuration parameter
                                  defaults that are quite conservative as regards the limited available
                                  airtime on the VHF APRS frequency. We know conservative digipaths and
                                  transmission intervals are courteous to all the other users hoping to share
                                  the frequency. Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                                  and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                                  WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                                  I know you've already thought carefully about these things too. Thanks!
                                  Good luck!
                                  73, Cap KE6AFE


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                  scott@...
                                  Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 13:44 PM
                                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [tracker2] ETA?

                                  The main consideration is of course the cost of the parts and labor (not
                                  counting mine) for the kits. If I was going solely on a business mentality
                                  I'd be pricing it up there with the KPC-3 or at least the uTNT.
                                  <snip>
                                • Jason Winningham
                                  ... Actually, a better default would be don t digipeat at all , which happens to be the default. -Jason kg4wsv
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                    On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                                    > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                                    > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                                    > WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" would be good for starting out.

                                    Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                                    happens to be the default.

                                    -Jason
                                    kg4wsv
                                  • scott@opentrac.org
                                    Actually I think that it s set to digipeat on MYCALL by default. The logic there is that no one s likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                      Actually I think that it's set to digipeat on MYCALL by default.  The logic there is that no one's likely to use you as a digipeater accidentally, but if they need the capability then it's there.
                                       
                                      Scott


                                      From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Winningham
                                      Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:04 PM
                                      To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [tracker2] ETA?


                                      On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Cap Pennell wrote:

                                      > Maybe default settings like "digi only MYcall and WIDE1-1
                                      > and then only if no other digi is heard first" and "default digipath
                                      > WIDE1-1,WIDE2- 1" would be good for starting out.

                                      Actually, a better default would be "don't digipeat at all", which
                                      happens to be the default.

                                      -Jason
                                      kg4wsv

                                    • Tony VE6MVP
                                      ... Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that s another $17. So yours should be at
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
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                                        At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:

                                        A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what it does.

                                        Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.   And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well.  So that's another $17.   So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.     Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                        Tony

                                      • Steven Palm
                                        ... I think that Scott should have a separate donate area for people who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many shekels as you want
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Aug 4, 2006
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                                          On Aug 4, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Tony VE6MVP wrote:
                                          > At 11:38 PM 2006/08/02 -0700, you wrote:
                                          >> A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                                          >> $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering what
                                          >> it does.
                                          >
                                          > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard. And I
                                          > suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's another
                                          > $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the same comparison.
                                          > Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                          I think that Scott should have a separate "donate" area for people
                                          who feel the product is too cheap. Go ahead, Tony, drop in as many
                                          shekels as you want to into the bucket. :) On the other hand, I'm
                                          hoping that he leans toward not maximizing profit, but instead
                                          minimizing cost but without causing any personal loss or hardship.
                                          Maybe that attitude comes from my choosing to work for a non-profit,
                                          so not only is my money limited, but I'm focused always on doing
                                          things for the efficiency of money, not the surplus of it.

                                          And indeed, this is way off topic, so I should shut up now.

                                          Steve
                                        • Tanner Lovelace
                                          ... There s a huge psychological barrier for something that costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I d recommend not going into 3 digits.
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Aug 6, 2006
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                                            On 8/4/06, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            > A TNC-X kit sells for $63 with the enclosure (no USB), so I guess
                                            > $65 for an OT2m kit wouldn't be such a bad deal, considering
                                            > what it does.
                                            >
                                            > Add $20 to the TNC-X for the digipeater daughterboard.
                                            > And I suspect the X-Track daughterboard as well. So that's
                                            > another $17. So yours should be at least $102 by the
                                            > same comparison. Make it $129 to make a decent profit.

                                            There's a huge psychological barrier for something that
                                            costs over $100. If the raw parts cost is less than that, I'd
                                            recommend not going into 3 digits. That's not to say I don't
                                            think profit should be made, I'm just trying to point out some
                                            considerations.

                                            Personally, I'm rather dismayed by how much radio gear
                                            costs these days, especially being in the computer field
                                            where costs on everything go down by leaps and bounds
                                            every year. (Yes, I realize there are economies of scale,
                                            but that's still another barrier for getting new people into
                                            the hobby.)

                                            Cheers,
                                            Tanner Lovelace
                                            KB4TYE


                                            --
                                            Tanner Lovelace
                                            clubjuggler at gmail dot com
                                            http://wtl.wayfarer.org/
                                            (fieldless) In fess two roundels in pale, a billet fesswise and an
                                            increscent, all sable.
                                          • n0anhasan50212
                                            Scott, If it s anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I ll buy one immediately. I don t have time to do the assembly. If for no other reason, I would
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                              Scott,

                                              If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                              immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                              reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                              evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                              hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                              supervising the TNCs.

                                              Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                              my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                              up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                              to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                              hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                              mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                              prefer it.

                                              73,

                                              ...hasan, N0AN


                                              --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                              > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                              easier to
                                              > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                              printing, the
                                              > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                              > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                              >
                                            • Curt, WE7U
                                              ... Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature! For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out and mic-in, running with the squelch open
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
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                                                On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                                > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                                > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                                > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                                > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                                > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                                > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                                > prefer it.

                                                Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                                For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                                and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                                control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                                are volume and power.

                                                I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                                often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                                Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                                These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                                versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                                --
                                                Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
                                                "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                                "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
                                                "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
                                              • scott@opentrac.org
                                                Yes, it ll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on. Works well. Scott _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                                   
                                                  Scott


                                                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                  Scott,

                                                  If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                                  immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                                  reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                                  evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                                  hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                                  supervising the TNCs.

                                                  Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                                  my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                                  up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                                  to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                                  hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                                  mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                                  prefer it.

                                                  73,

                                                  ....hasan, N0AN

                                                  --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                                  > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                                  easier to
                                                  > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                                  printing, the
                                                  > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                                  > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                                  >

                                                • scott@opentrac.org
                                                  Here s a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340 Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Here's a solution to that: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7340  Install a waterproof d-sub connector on the ammo can and update the firmware without opening it up.
                                                     
                                                    Scott


                                                    From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curt, WE7U
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:14 AM
                                                    To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                    On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, n0anhasan50212 wrote:

                                                    > Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                                    > my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                                    > up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                                    > to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                                    > hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                                    > mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                                    > prefer it.

                                                    Actually, it _is_ an end-of-the-world feature!

                                                    For a mobile or portable setup where I have to hook to speaker-out
                                                    and mic-in, running with the squelch open means I have one fewer
                                                    control to mess me up. The only controls I then have to worry about
                                                    are volume and power.

                                                    I've had my Jeep tracker performing poorly at times over the years,
                                                    often because I've accidentally bumped one or the other control.
                                                    Now that the radio and TNC are inside an ammo-can it happens less.
                                                    These days I'm often pulling my OpenTracker to burn in new firmware
                                                    versions, so the chances are going up again...

                                                    --
                                                    Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo. com/~archer
                                                    "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                                                    "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. " -- WE7U
                                                    "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

                                                  • J. Lance Cotton
                                                    ... So what does it do with SWDCD is off? -- J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O joe@lightningflash.net http://kj5o.lightningflash.net Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      scott@... wrote:
                                                      > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                                      > on. Works well.

                                                      So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                                      --
                                                      J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                                      joe@...
                                                      http://kj5o.lightningflash.net
                                                      Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                                      cookies.
                                                    • scott@opentrac.org
                                                      Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip. White noise or voice will trigger it. _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Then it goes by the energy detect on the demodulator chip.  White noise or voice will trigger it.
                                                         

                                                        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Lance Cotton
                                                        Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:52 AM
                                                        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                        scott@opentrac. org wrote:
                                                        > Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned
                                                        > on. Works well.

                                                        So what does it do with SWDCD is off?

                                                        --
                                                        J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
                                                        joe@lightningflash. net
                                                        http://kj5o. lightningflash. net
                                                        Three Step Plan: 1. Take over the world. 2. Get a lot of cookies. 3. Eat the
                                                        cookies.

                                                      • hasan schiers
                                                        Thanks Scott, I can t wait! 73, ... From: scott@opentrac.org To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re:
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Thanks Scott, I can't wait!
                                                           
                                                          73,
                                                           
                                                          ...hasan, N0AN
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: scott@...
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:44 AM
                                                          Subject: RE: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                          Yes, it'll run open squelch - just make sure the SWDCD option is turned on.  Works well.
                                                           
                                                          Scott


                                                          From: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:tracker2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of n0anhasan50212
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:04 AM
                                                          To: tracker2@yahoogroup s.com
                                                          Subject: [tracker2] Re: ETA?

                                                          Scott,

                                                          If it's anywhere near the price indicated (assembled), I'll buy one
                                                          immediately. I don't have time to do the assembly. If for no other
                                                          reason, I would LOVE to put it on with ui-view32 at my home station to
                                                          evaluate the effectiveness of the "smart" digi-peater function with
                                                          hop count limiting. Everything I use is KISS mode with AGWPEpro
                                                          supervising the TNCs.

                                                          Will it run open squelch? (Wrong question...will it accept audio from
                                                          my radio that is open squelch. Lots of tncs won't..they refuse to key
                                                          up if noise is present, whereas the True DCD tncs don't look at noise
                                                          to the the hold-off, but actually look for packet tones to do the
                                                          hold-off) I'm using a PK-900 at the moment, running in open squelch
                                                          mode (true DCD). This feature is not the end of the world, but I
                                                          prefer it.

                                                          73,

                                                          ....hasan, N0AN

                                                          --- In tracker2@yahoogroup s.com, <scott@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Still debating on the price. I want to have *some* assembled version
                                                          > available for somewhere in the $60-$70 range, but it's going to be
                                                          easier to
                                                          > pull that off for a surface mount version. Even with custom
                                                          printing, the
                                                          > OT1x-style cases cost under $3, and the component cost is less - the MCU
                                                          > socket alone adds a couple of bucks to the OT2m price.
                                                          >

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