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Standby mode

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  • Tony VE6MVP
    Folks My request(s) are somewhat bizarre but bear with me on this. Now these are very low priority items and fall into my wish list category. From what I ve
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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      Folks

      My request(s) are somewhat bizarre but bear with me on this. Now these
      are very low priority items and fall into my wish list category. From what
      I've been reading the Tracker2 sounds very, very capable as it is right
      now. (Those on the NWAPRS mailing list will recognize these requests from
      that mailing list. )

      I don't want to have everyone in the world knowing where my vehicle is all
      the time. Once I have APRS working it's just going to be sitting there
      waiting to be used.

      1) I'd like to see a standby mode where the Tracker2 is listening to APRS
      packets. Thus if my vehicle is stolen I can remotely send it an APRS
      packet of some sort which it will then start beaconing. This APRS packet
      would, in effect, contain a password which the Open Tracker software would
      recognize. Needless to say once I used it I'd want to change the password
      as this password would be stored in the various APRS data repositories such
      as findu.com.

      Now it's my understanding that the USA FCC doesn't permit remote control
      operation on the 2m band. But I'm in Canada so that restriction doesn't
      apply. Also I do realize that the vehicle would have to be in digipeater
      range and the vehicle battery still working, etc, etc, for this to work.

      2) I recently followed a possible drunk driver. Unfortunately he was too
      close to home for the cops to get their in time to stop him while he was in
      the vehicle. I was a bit confused as to what Avenue I was on for a number
      of blocks. So what would be nice is a switch on the dash where I can
      tell the Tracker2 to start beaconing. Now I'd setup a short URL on a
      website for the 911 operator to see a map on where my vehicle is currently
      located. Such as whereis.ve6mvp.com. So now the 911 operator can get my
      position from the Internet rather than me having to figure out what street
      or avenue I'm on when I've just turned.

      (What is the delay between beaconing and being seen on the Internet at
      places such as findu.com?)

      Of course this requires that the 911 operator have Internet access. My
      understanding is that many do have Internet access and, if not, the
      supervisor generally does.

      Tony
    • scott@opentrac.org
      ... No problem, just set INTERVAL to 0. It ll answer ?APRS? queries (though I could add an option to disable that in this case) and you can send an INTERVAL
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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        > 1) I'd like to see a standby mode where the Tracker2 is
        > listening to APRS
        > packets. Thus if my vehicle is stolen I can remotely send it an APRS
        > packet of some sort which it will then start beaconing.

        No problem, just set INTERVAL to 0. It'll answer ?APRS? queries (though I
        could add an option to disable that in this case) and you can send an
        INTERVAL command remotely to turn it on. Or you could use the power control
        option to just turn off the GPS receiver. Personally, I'd prefer to use
        that to kill the fuel pump!

        > would, in effect, contain a password which the Open Tracker
        > software would
        > recognize. Needless to say once I used it I'd want to change
        > the password

        I'm working on a couple of different authentication methods. It's a
        tradeoff between ease of use and security.

        > Now it's my understanding that the USA FCC doesn't permit
        > remote control
        > operation on the 2m band. But I'm in Canada so that

        I think that's for 1-way R/C with no ID. This should fall into the same
        category as remote commands for a digipeater or mailbox.

        > of blocks. So what would be nice is a switch on the dash
        > where I can
        > tell the Tracker2 to start beaconing. Now I'd setup a short

        You can do that with the configuration jumper or the 'transmit now' input.
        A common setup is to put the text EMERGENCY in the second profile's comment
        line, with a relatively fast beacon rate, so that you can flip a switch and
        send emergency beacons that'll set off alarms on everyone's APRS displays.

        > (What is the delay between beaconing and being seen on the
        > Internet at
        > places such as findu.com?)

        Usually not more than a second or two.

        Scott
      • Tony VE6MVP
        ... I am going to add some kind of disabler device which requires me to hit a switch of some sort which will then enable the fuel pump. Thus a thief who had
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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          At 11:48 AM 2006/07/07 -0700, you wrote:

          >Personally, I'd prefer to use
          >that to kill the fuel pump!

          I am going to add some kind of disabler device which requires me to hit a
          switch of some sort which will then enable the fuel pump. Thus a thief
          who had hotwired the vehicle would not be able to start it.

          Besides if the vehicle is indeed moving I'd sooner have the cops stop it
          themselves and arrest the bad guys. Rather than disabling it so they'd
          abandon the vehicle. Of course if they start running then it would be
          nice to remotely disable the fuel pump. I'm sure the cops would
          appreciate that from a bystanders viewpoint. As would I as there is likely
          to be less damage to my vehicle.

          <Rest of your response snipped>

          Wow, very nice to see just how much flexibility you're putting into the
          device.

          > > (What is the delay between beaconing and being seen on the
          > > Internet at
          > > places such as findu.com?)
          >
          >Usually not more than a second or two.

          Ah, now that's nice too. You can tell the operator a few seconds after
          making the turn, "Hit the refresh button now."

          Thanks, Tony
        • juha.nurmela@quicknet.inet.fi
          ... The password would be easy enough to change at the police station parking lot ? :) No shortage of suggestions ;) but here comes another idea. In addition
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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            On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 scott@... wrote:

            > tony> Needless to say once I used it I'd want to change the password
            >
            > I'm working on a couple of different authentication methods. It's a
            > tradeoff between ease of use and security.

            The password would be easy enough to change at the police station
            parking lot ? :)

            No shortage of suggestions ;) but here comes another idea.

            In addition to the existing remote operation;

            A code word, recognized from, say, incoming messages, which
            would just indirect into a pre-configured command. no acks no nothing.

            The command(s) intended to be idempotent, would not cause harm if Eve the
            eavesdropper replayed it (the fuelpump fuse would remain blown ;) Nor
            would Eve know what it did, if it was not obvious from subsequent tracker2
            behavior.

            codeword 'power' could be published to a larger group, to switch a power
            brick on/off for example, and the password stuff kept secret.


            Juha, OH5NXO
          • scott@opentrac.org
            ... I figured it d be better to do it once the cops had the car in sight. My Accord has a 15 amp fuse on the fuel pump, so I think the simplest way to set it
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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              > Besides if the vehicle is indeed moving I'd sooner have the
              > cops stop it
              > themselves and arrest the bad guys. Rather than disabling it
              > so they'd
              > abandon the vehicle. Of course if they start running then

              I figured it'd be better to do it once the cops had the car in sight. My
              Accord has a 15 amp fuse on the fuel pump, so I think the simplest way to
              set it up would be to power the tracker through that circuit (the high-side
              switch can't switch a separate supply), making sure it's got adequately
              heavy cabling, and just short the output leads of the switch. When the
              switch is turned on, it'll switch up to 20 amps before the current limiting
              cuts in, but that's enough to blow the fuse. You have to get out of the car
              and open an access panel to replace it.

              A simple relay might be better, though. You could also kill the ECU, but
              I'd be afraid of causing damage to the engine. Killing the fuel supply
              shouldn't do anything more dramatic than starving the engine and making the
              car coast to a stop.

              Before anyone tries to implement this, I should point out that my auto shop
              grades were... well, not quite on par with my CS/EE grades, anyway. =]

              > Wow, very nice to see just how much flexibility you're
              > putting into the
              > device.

              It'll be able to do a lot more if I ever get a chance to implement the
              scripting language I've been thinking about. That'll have to wait until
              after the first production firmware release, though.

              Scott
            • scott@opentrac.org
              ... That could be done in the hypothetical scripting language. I think it d be fine with the authentication techniques I m working on. Right now it s all
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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                > In addition to the existing remote operation;
                >
                > A code word, recognized from, say, incoming messages, which
                > would just indirect into a pre-configured command. no acks no nothing.

                That could be done in the hypothetical scripting language. I think it'd be
                fine with the authentication techniques I'm working on. Right now it's all
                callsign-based. Another one will be something you can calculate in your
                head or keep on paper, and the third will be a true cryptographic MAC
                that'll have to be generated by a computer.

                > The command(s) intended to be idempotent, would not cause
                > harm if Eve the
                > eavesdropper replayed it (the fuelpump fuse would remain blown ;) Nor
                > would Eve know what it did, if it was not obvious from
                > subsequent tracker2
                > behavior.

                Idempotence is actually a major concern in the command interface and
                scripting language design. It's very easy to get the same command multiple
                times due to retries and network topology, and the flash memory has finite
                write endurance. That's an issue in scripting if you say 'execute this
                configuration command when contact A is closed' - it'd be easy to erase and
                rewrite the same page in flash very quickly and eventually destroy it.

                My initial idea for a scripting language resembled a PLC's ladder logic,
                rather than a procedural language. I'm still leaning toward that sort of
                setup, but it introduces some complexity in dealing with output events that
                have to be edge-triggered.

                Scott
              • juha.nurmela@quicknet.inet.fi
                ... This code word would not require authentication, it would be a less-privileged thing. Instead of keys to the machine room, you d have a cord to pull, to
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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                  On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 scott@... wrote:

                  > That could be done in the hypothetical scripting language. I think it'd be
                  > fine with the authentication techniques I'm working on.

                  This 'code word' would not require authentication, it would be
                  a less-privileged thing. Instead of keys to the machine room,
                  you'd have a cord to pull, to reset the airconditioning.

                  > Idempotence is actually a major concern in the command interface and
                  > scripting language design. It's very easy to get the same command multiple

                  You know the cure ;) Message identifiers.

                  > My initial idea for a scripting language resembled a PLC's ladder logic,

                  I guess a Forth-like language is out of the question. Easy to implement,
                  but, kind of crazy to usher people to code in RPN something, what
                  they could write by themselves and recompile, in the first place.




                  Juha
                • scott@opentrac.org
                  ... Responding to commands and initiating pre-programmed actions is a big part of what I want the scripting language to be able to do. ... Yeah, not a lot of
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 7, 2006
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                    > This 'code word' would not require authentication, it would be
                    > a less-privileged thing. Instead of keys to the machine room,
                    > you'd have a cord to pull, to reset the airconditioning.

                    Responding to commands and initiating pre-programmed actions is a big part
                    of what I want the scripting language to be able to do.

                    > I guess a Forth-like language is out of the question. Easy to
                    > implement,
                    > but, kind of crazy to usher people to code in RPN something, what
                    > they could write by themselves and recompile, in the first place.

                    Yeah, not a lot of room.. but you're not the first to suggest Forth. I've
                    got a book on designing 'little languages' and their interpreters... I'm
                    hoping to get some insipration from that. It needs to be line-editable
                    though, so you can make code changes remotely.

                    Scott
                  • Curt, WE7U
                    ... I once wrote a Forth interpreter for a 6803 processor in under 2k. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer Lotto: A tax
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 10, 2006
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                      On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 scott@... wrote:

                      > > I guess a Forth-like language is out of the question. Easy to
                      > > implement,
                      > > but, kind of crazy to usher people to code in RPN something, what
                      > > they could write by themselves and recompile, in the first place.
                      >
                      > Yeah, not a lot of room.. but you're not the first to suggest Forth. I've
                      > got a book on designing 'little languages' and their interpreters... I'm
                      > hoping to get some insipration from that. It needs to be line-editable
                      > though, so you can make code changes remotely.

                      I once wrote a Forth interpreter for a 6803 processor in under 2k.

                      --
                      Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
                      "Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
                      "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
                      "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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