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PLC logic

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  • Wes Johnston
    Scott, you mentioned PLC logic a couple of weeks ago... we have a balloon we want to launch and would like to send a message to the T2 to use the hi side
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
      Scott, you mentioned PLC logic a couple of weeks ago... we have a balloon we want to launch and would like to send a message to the T2 to use the hi side switch to activate a nichrome wire to cutdown the payload.  As an extra measure, can you think of a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown?  Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far east, we'll never see it again.  I'd like to describe a line from Savannah GA to Wilmington NC, and if it crossed that line, activate the cutdown.  Or a 300km raduis from greenville SC.
       
      Wes
    • scott@opentrac.org
      A bounding box (coordinates giving two corners) would be very easy to implement. I won t have a generic way to do that for a while, but I can do a one-off
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
        A bounding box (coordinates giving two corners) would be very easy to implement.  I won't have a generic way to do that for a while, but I can do a one-off firmware build for now.
         
        This weekend I should have a chance to get the high side switch fully tested out.  When is your launch?
         
        Scott


        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wes Johnston
        Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:39 AM
        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [tracker2] PLC logic

        Scott, you mentioned PLC logic a couple of weeks ago... we have a balloon we want to launch and would like to send a message to the T2 to use the hi side switch to activate a nichrome wire to cutdown the payload.  As an extra measure, can you think of a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown?  Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far east, we'll never see it again.  I'd like to describe a line from Savannah GA to Wilmington NC, and if it crossed that line, activate the cutdown.  Or a 300km raduis from greenville SC.
         
        Wes
      • Wes Johnston
        Maybe in 4 to 6 weeks.. no definite word yet. I m just brainstorming (and double checking ideas w/you) before presenting them to the balloon guys... better to
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
          Maybe in 4 to 6 weeks.. no definite word yet.  I'm just brainstorming (and double checking ideas w/you) before presenting them to the balloon guys... better to sanity check here than foot in mouth later.
           
          Hey, on another subject, I got to thinking about my 276 not sending 1 second updates in garmin mode... wonder if it's a bug in the firmware?  What is the command you send a garmin to make it spew data second by second?  I can then ask them if there is a proper way or if that way is broken.
          Wes
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: scott@...
          Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:07 PM
          Subject: RE: [tracker2] PLC logic

          A bounding box (coordinates giving two corners) would be very easy to implement.  I won't have a generic way to do that for a while, but I can do a one-off firmware build for now.
           
          This weekend I should have a chance to get the high side switch fully tested out.  When is your launch?
           
          Scott


          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wes Johnston
          Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:39 AM
          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [tracker2] PLC logic

          Scott, you mentioned PLC logic a couple of weeks ago... we have a balloon we want to launch and would like to send a message to the T2 to use the hi side switch to activate a nichrome wire to cutdown the payload.  As an extra measure, can you think of a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown?  Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far east, we'll never see it again.  I'd like to describe a line from Savannah GA to Wilmington NC, and if it crossed that line, activate the cutdown.  Or a 300km raduis from greenville SC.
           
          Wes
        • scott@opentrac.org
          It s a pvt_start command. I could try polling the unit for a single position, see if that works. Might complicate things though. _____ From:
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
            It's a pvt_start command.  I could try polling the unit for a single position, see if that works.  Might complicate things though.


            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wes Johnston
            Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:19 PM
            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tracker2] PLC logic

            Maybe in 4 to 6 weeks.. no definite word yet.  I'm just brainstorming (and double checking ideas w/you) before presenting them to the balloon guys... better to sanity check here than foot in mouth later.
             
            Hey, on another subject, I got to thinking about my 276 not sending 1 second updates in garmin mode... wonder if it's a bug in the firmware?  What is the command you send a garmin to make it spew data second by second?  I can then ask them if there is a proper way or if that way is broken.
            Wes
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: scott@...
            Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:07 PM
            Subject: RE: [tracker2] PLC logic

            A bounding box (coordinates giving two corners) would be very easy to implement.  I won't have a generic way to do that for a while, but I can do a one-off firmware build for now.
             
            This weekend I should have a chance to get the high side switch fully tested out.  When is your launch?
             
            Scott


            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wes Johnston
            Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:39 AM
            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [tracker2] PLC logic

            Scott, you mentioned PLC logic a couple of weeks ago... we have a balloon we want to launch and would like to send a message to the T2 to use the hi side switch to activate a nichrome wire to cutdown the payload.  As an extra measure, can you think of a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown?  Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far east, we'll never see it again.  I'd like to describe a line from Savannah GA to Wilmington NC, and if it crossed that line, activate the cutdown.  Or a 300km raduis from greenville SC.
             
            Wes
          • juha.nurmela@quicknet.inet.fi
            ... That feature might also work against car theft, if there s a nice way to disconnect ignition or injection. Juha, OH5NXO
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
              On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Wes Johnston wrote:

              > a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a
              > single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown?
              > Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far
              > east, we'll never see it again.

              That feature might also work against car theft, if there's a
              nice way to disconnect ignition or injection.


              Juha, OH5NXO
            • scott@opentrac.org
              I ve had several requests for a geofencing option like that. Any suggestions on how to safely disable a car using the high-side switch? I suppose a brute-force
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
                I've had several requests for a geofencing option like that.

                Any suggestions on how to safely disable a car using the high-side switch?
                I suppose a brute-force way to do it might be to switch the fuel pump supply
                to ground and blow the fuse, assuming it's rated at less than 20 amps.

                Scott

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > juha.nurmela@...
                > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:01 PM
                > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [tracker2] PLC logic
                >
                >
                >
                > On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Wes Johnston wrote:
                >
                > > a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a
                > > single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown?
                > > Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far
                > > east, we'll never see it again.
                >
                > That feature might also work against car theft, if there's a
                > nice way to disconnect ignition or injection.
                >
                >
                > Juha, OH5NXO
                >
                >
                >
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              • Wes johnston
                muhhhhahaha..... I like that.... semi permanent disabled. But the must have accessory would have to be the ejection seat. What would really be fun would
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
                  muhhhhahaha..... I like that.... semi permanent disabled.  But the "must have" accessory would have to be the ejection seat.   What would really be fun would be to activate a prerecorded computer voice that said something like "sleeping gas release in 5 4 3 2 1...." and then release some of that harmless smoke they use in discos.  Would be great to see how fast your average thief could get out of a car.
                   
                  Seriously, using the NC contacts of a relay works wonders... the relay is dormant, current flows thru contacts to coil or fuel pump.  Activate the relay and current is interrupted.  Most people think of relays as must turn on to pass current, this is the opposite.
                   
                  Wes
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: scott@...
                  Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:09 PM
                  Subject: RE: [tracker2] PLC logic

                  I've had several requests for a geofencing option like that.

                  Any suggestions on how to safely disable a car using the high-side switch?
                  I suppose a brute-force way to do it might be to switch the fuel pump supply
                  to ground and blow the fuse, assuming it's rated at less than 20 amps.

                  Scott

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > juha.nurmela@...
                  > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:01 PM
                  > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [tracker2] PLC logic
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Wes Johnston wrote:
                  >
                  > > a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a
                  > > single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown? 
                  > > Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far
                  > > east, we'll never see it again.
                  >
                  > That feature might also work against car theft, if there's a
                  > nice way to disconnect ignition or injection.
                  >
                  >
                  > Juha, OH5NXO
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > --------------------~-->
                  > Home is just a click away.  Make Yahoo! your home page now.
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                • scott@opentrac.org
                  I learned the joys of NC and more complicated relays at a young age - tore apart a whole pinball machine to build all sorts of stuff with em, and nearly
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 2, 2006
                    I learned the joys of NC and more complicated relays at a young age - tore apart a whole pinball machine to build all sorts of stuff with 'em, and nearly burned down the barn in the process.  =]
                     
                    I just thought it ought to be a little more 'sticky' than that. Since the setting is in flash it's going to start up that way every time, so I guess it should be OK with a relay.  You just have to find a place to mount one more component.
                     
                    Would the fuel pump be the best target to disable the car in a benign manner?  I figured it's remote enough from the engine compartment that it might give you more options for installation of the kill switch.  Maybe there's a better way... let's just say that my auto shop grade suffered a bit from my focus on computer science.  =]
                     
                    Scott


                    From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wes johnston
                    Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:16 PM
                    To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [tracker2] PLC logic

                    muhhhhahaha..... I like that.... semi permanent disabled.  But the "must have" accessory would have to be the ejection seat.   What would really be fun would be to activate a prerecorded computer voice that said something like "sleeping gas release in 5 4 3 2 1...." and then release some of that harmless smoke they use in discos.  Would be great to see how fast your average thief could get out of a car.
                     
                    Seriously, using the NC contacts of a relay works wonders... the relay is dormant, current flows thru contacts to coil or fuel pump.  Activate the relay and current is interrupted.  Most people think of relays as must turn on to pass current, this is the opposite.
                     
                    Wes
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: scott@...
                    Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:09 PM
                    Subject: RE: [tracker2] PLC logic

                    I've had several requests for a geofencing option like that.

                    Any suggestions on how to safely disable a car using the high-side switch?
                    I suppose a brute-force way to do it might be to switch the fuel pump supply
                    to ground and blow the fuse, assuming it's rated at less than 20 amps.

                    Scott

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > juha.nurmela@...
                    > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:01 PM
                    > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [tracker2] PLC logic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Fri, 2 Jun 2006, Wes Johnston wrote:
                    >
                    > > a way to provide the tracker with two points defining a line (or a
                    > > single point and radius) and automatically activate the cutdown? 
                    > > Problem is, we live near the coast and if our balloon blows too far
                    > > east, we'll never see it again.
                    >
                    > That feature might also work against car theft, if there's a
                    > nice way to disconnect ignition or injection.
                    >
                    >
                    > Juha, OH5NXO
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > --------------------~-->
                    > Home is just a click away.  Make Yahoo! your home page now.
                    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------
                    > ------~->
                    >

                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                  • juha.nurmela@quicknet.inet.fi
                    ... How about shorting the switch to car horn ? An indirect more than benign method. Customs officers ought to know about morse, and act when the mercedes
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 3, 2006
                      On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 scott@... wrote:

                      > Would the fuel pump be the best target to disable the car in a benign
                      > manner? I figured it's remote enough from the engine compartment that it

                      How about shorting the switch to car horn ? An 'indirect' more
                      than 'benign' method. Customs officers ought to know about morse, and act
                      when the mercedes in the queue keeps honking - .... . ..-. -

                      Maybe not. But then there's the unavoidable escalation of
                      detecting tampering of gps... Some units might say "antenna short/open"
                      and gps-mouses would just stop saying anything at all. Aluminium
                      tape over antenna would be one step harder to detect.

                      Nice thought exercise anyway :)


                      Juha OH5NXO
                    • scott@opentrac.org
                      ... There s still the remote command ability. At least until they get wise to that and start clipping antennas... Scott
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 3, 2006
                        > Maybe not. But then there's the unavoidable escalation of
                        > detecting tampering of gps... Some units might say "antenna
                        > short/open"
                        > and gps-mouses would just stop saying anything at all. Aluminium
                        > tape over antenna would be one step harder to detect.

                        There's still the remote command ability. At least until they get wise to
                        that and start clipping antennas...

                        Scott
                      • juha.nurmela@quicknet.inet.fi
                        The geofences might have a use as report triggers (or blockers!); circling closed garages and any other black holes. Little reward from lots of cpu cycles,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 3, 2006
                          The "geofences" might have a use as report triggers (or blockers!);
                          circling closed garages and any other black holes. Little reward from lots
                          of cpu cycles, but, again, just a thought.


                          Juha OH5NXO
                        • scott@opentrac.org
                          Actually, for rectangular areas that are orthogonal to the coordinate plane, there s not much processing involved. Each GPS coordinate is already converted to
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 3, 2006
                            Actually, for rectangular areas that are orthogonal to the coordinate plane,
                            there's not much processing involved. Each GPS coordinate is already
                            converted to a 32-bit integer format, so it's just a matter of seeing if
                            your coordinate pair falls between two corners. And that only has to be
                            done every second or two, when a new position comes in.

                            I'll probably do that eventually as part of the scripting system. I plan to
                            set aside one page of flash (512 bytes) for script code, so you could fit a
                            number of geofence checks in there.

                            Scott

                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            > juha.nurmela@...
                            > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:32 AM
                            > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [tracker2] PLC logic
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The "geofences" might have a use as report triggers (or blockers!);
                            > circling closed garages and any other black holes. Little
                            > reward from lots
                            > of cpu cycles, but, again, just a thought.
                            >
                            >
                            > Juha OH5NXO
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                          • Wes johnston
                            Perhaps defining multiple orthogonal areas? A 2 point line suits me ... or a parallelagram... If you look at the coast of SC, it runs approx 45 degrees to the
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 3, 2006
                              Perhaps defining multiple orthogonal areas?  A 2 point line suits me ... or a parallelagram... If you look at the coast of SC, it runs approx 45 degrees to the north and east.  A orthogonal box just isn't gunna catch my balloon before it hits water.
                               
                              Wes
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: scott@...
                              Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 2:49 PM
                              Subject: RE: [tracker2] PLC logic

                              Actually, for rectangular areas that are orthogonal to the coordinate plane,
                              there's not much processing involved.  Each GPS coordinate is already
                              converted to a 32-bit integer format,  so it's just a matter of seeing if
                              your coordinate pair falls between two corners.  And that only has to be
                              done every second or two, when a new position comes in.

                              I'll probably do that eventually as part of the scripting system.  I plan to
                              set aside one page of flash (512 bytes) for script code, so you could fit a
                              number of geofence checks in there.

                              Scott

                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              > juha.nurmela@...
                              > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:32 AM
                              > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [tracker2] PLC logic
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > The "geofences" might have a use as report triggers (or blockers!);
                              > circling closed garages and any other black holes. Little
                              > reward from lots
                              > of cpu cycles, but, again, just a thought.
                              >
                              >
                              > Juha OH5NXO
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              > --------------------~-->
                              > Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new
                              > email arrives
                              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM
                              > --------------------------------------------------------------
                              > ------~->
                              >

                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              >
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                            • Tyson S.
                              Sounds like your looking for a polygon like the GIS guys use, or a multipoint line than can trace along something like a coastline. ...
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 3, 2006
                                Sounds like your looking for a polygon like the GIS guys use, or a
                                multipoint line than can trace along something like a coastline.

                                --- Wes johnston <wes@...> wrote:

                                > Perhaps defining multiple orthogonal areas? A 2 point line suits me
                                > ... or a parallelagram... If you look at the coast of SC, it runs
                                > approx 45 degrees to the north and east. A orthogonal box just isn't
                                > gunna catch my balloon before it hits water.
                                >
                                > Wes

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                              • juha.nurmela@quicknet.inet.fi
                                ... IIRC, Scott mentioned support of great-circle distance calculation. If that will be scriptable, many local contours could be approximated using distance to
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 4, 2006
                                  On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Wes johnston wrote:

                                  > approx 45 degrees to the north and east. A orthogonal box just isn't
                                  > gunna catch my balloon before it hits water.

                                  IIRC, Scott mentioned support of great-circle distance calculation.
                                  If that will be scriptable, many local contours could be approximated
                                  using distance to far far away point (or few points).
                                  In your case, Madagascar ? :)

                                  It might work with flat-earth-model too.

                                  Juha, OH5NXO
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