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OT2m temperature report way off...

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  • mark.rice@L-3com.com
    With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range... From 16C to a
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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      With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
      90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
      From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
      it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).

      Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
      configuration?

      - Mark
      N4CMB-11
    • Scott Miller
      The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty linear, and I ve tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F. Where is it actually
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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        The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
        linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

        Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
        you have it remoted?

        Scott

        mark.rice@... wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
        > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
        > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
        > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
        >
        > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
        > configuration?
        >
        > - Mark
        > N4CMB-11
        >
        >
      • mark.rice@L-3com.com
        The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the seat). It s not something I ll reference as an accurate source for air temp, but the temp
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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          The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the
          seat). It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
          temp, but the temp readings are way off. I just wondered if there was a
          coefficient change that it needed somehow.

          - Mark
          N4CMB-11

          -----Original Message-----
          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Scott Miller
          Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

          The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
          linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

          Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
          you have it remoted?

          Scott

          mark.rice@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
          > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
          > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when

          > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
          >
          > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
          > configuration?
          >
          > - Mark
          > N4CMB-11
          >
          >




          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Scott Miller
          No, shouldn t need adjusting. You can spray it with some component cooler spray to see if it s actually working right. It s possible that it s just reading
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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            No, shouldn't need adjusting. You can spray it with some component
            cooler spray to see if it's actually working right.

            It's possible that it's just reading low (if the offset hasn't been set
            properly) and that it's always rather warm due to lack of air
            circulation in the case. The OT2m case is really not an idea place for
            a sensor.

            Scott

            mark.rice@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the
            > seat). It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
            > temp, but the temp readings are way off. I just wondered if there was a
            > coefficient change that it needed somehow.
            >
            > - Mark
            > N4CMB-11
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
            > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>] On
            > Behalf Of Scott Miller
            > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
            > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...
            >
            > The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
            > linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.
            >
            > Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
            > you have it remoted?
            >
            > Scott
            >
            > mark.rice@... <mailto:mark.rice%40L-3com.com> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
            > > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
            > > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
            >
            > > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
            > >
            > > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
            > > configuration?
            > >
            > > - Mark
            > > N4CMB-11
            > >
            > >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
          • James Ewen
            Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings? You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other. James VE6SRV
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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              Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

              You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

              James
              VE6SRV
            • mark.rice@L-3com.com
              The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...) I d have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file shows. The 2 packet
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

                I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
                shows.

                The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

                - Mark
                N4CMB-11 (OT2m)
                N4CMB-10 (TT3+ or OT1+)

                -----Original Message-----
                From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of James Ewen
                Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:09 PM
                To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

                You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

                James
                VE6SRV



                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • James Ewen
                ... I can wait... ... Have you saved your config file? If so, you can pull that up and read the SmartBeacon parameters without having to pull the unit out of
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                  On 10/2/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                  > The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

                  I can wait...

                  > I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
                  > shows.

                  Have you saved your config file? If so, you can pull that up and read
                  the SmartBeacon parameters without having to pull the unit out of the
                  truck, or take a laptop out to the truck.

                  > The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

                  Yup, which is why I am interested in knowing what you have set for
                  SmartBeacon parameters.

                  Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                  SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
                  routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
                  possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be
                  sent, just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

                  My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low. This
                  allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which
                  is not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
                  corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
                  times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
                  make sure that this doesn't happen.

                  If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
                  suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
                  happening.

                  James
                  VE6SRV
                • Steven Palm
                  ... So, are these considered production now and out of beta? I m confused because the product page says that regular production is scheduled to begin in
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                    On Sep 25, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Scott Miller wrote:
                    > FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave for
                    > DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.
                    >
                    > I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they might
                    > sell out again quickly. Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
                    > should be done by the end of next month.

                    So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta? I'm
                    confused because the product page says that regular production is
                    scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
                    not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)

                    I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
                    of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
                    if they are "golden" or not.

                    Thanks,

                    Steve
                  • Scott Miller
                    They re in production. I got the first 100 in, though I won t have enough enclosures for them all until the end of the month. The manual is still preliminary
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                      They're in production. I got the first 100 in, though I won't have
                      enough enclosures for them all until the end of the month. The manual
                      is still preliminary (with an update due to be posted tonight) and at
                      the moment I'm designing the sticker that'll go on the bottom with the
                      power specs, model number, and pinouts - but that's not exactly a
                      critical component.

                      Once all of that stuff is done, I'll work on getting the marketing
                      information updated.

                      Scott


                      > So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta? I'm
                      > confused because the product page says that regular production is
                      > scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
                      > not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)
                      >
                      > I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
                      > of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
                      > if they are "golden" or not.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Steve
                    • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                      Hey James, thanks for helping me with these settings. When I got home last night a friend of mine wanted my help putting up a 2meter antenna on his 60-foot
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                        Hey James, thanks for helping me with these settings. When I got home
                        last night a friend of mine wanted my help putting up a 2meter antenna
                        on his 60-foot tower. He wants to have an i-gate in an area that's been
                        a dead spot for aprs... East of Greenville, Tx. looking eastward on I-30
                        toward Texarkana. So I was busy helping him into the late hours.

                        Anyway, this morning I got the config info on my OT2m that is used in my
                        call, N4CMB-11:

                        At speeds between 0 and 40MPH
                        Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                        Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
                        But not more than once every 3 seconds


                        Granted, those setting need some refinement.

                        And that reminds me, I need to contact K5BNI-1 about his settings too.
                        (If you look at the aprs map, you'll see what I mean...)

                        - Mark
                        N4CMB-11

                        _______________
                        Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                        SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
                        routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
                        possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be sent,
                        just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

                        My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low. This
                        allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which is
                        not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
                        corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
                        times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
                        make sure that this doesn't happen.

                        If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
                        suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
                        happening.

                        James
                        VE6SRV



                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • James Ewen
                        ... Okay, let s look at this to see what s happening. First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed threshold set up a little above
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                          On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                          > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                          > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                          > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
                          > But not more than once every 3 seconds

                          Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                          First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low
                          speed threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off,
                          it was necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                          Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                          due to turns more than distance.

                          Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally
                          this is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on
                          that. Any time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting,
                          you will be beaconing at the high speed rate.

                          Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                          minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that
                          your vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                          recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's
                          1800 seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens,
                          without causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you
                          reporting every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                          This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                          okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot
                          of stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to
                          make room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow
                          rate when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something
                          active more room to play.

                          Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                          CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                          required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a
                          value Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that
                          you don't beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                          changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                          The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                          time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and
                          turn a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is
                          because at that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to
                          make CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree
                          corner, you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum
                          turn time is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the
                          minimum turn time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that
                          corner (unless traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't
                          send a flurry of beacons when winding your way through a parking lot,
                          or getting dizzy in a traffic circle.

                          So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                          higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                          You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing
                          the channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that,
                          but you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static
                          beacon rate in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does
                          the same, but Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops
                          from it's 1 minute rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32
                          minutes when stationary.

                          Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                          James
                          VE6SRV
                        • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                          Thanks James. I d like to implement some of your comments. Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas isn t far away (45 miles) so I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                            Thanks James. I'd like to implement some of your comments.

                            Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                            isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                            it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                            The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                            I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                            latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                            resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                            of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                            Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                            hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                            Thanks again, James. I'm grateful for your assistance.

                            - Mark
                            N4CMB-11



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of James Ewen
                            Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
                            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                            On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                            > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                            > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                            > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
                            > every 3 seconds

                            Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                            First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
                            threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
                            necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                            Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                            due to turns more than distance.

                            Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
                            is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
                            time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
                            beaconing at the high speed rate.

                            Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                            minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
                            vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                            recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
                            seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
                            causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you reporting
                            every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                            This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                            okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
                            stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
                            room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
                            when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
                            more room to play.

                            Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                            CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                            required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
                            Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
                            beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                            changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                            The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                            time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
                            a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
                            that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
                            CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
                            you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
                            is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
                            time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
                            traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
                            beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
                            a traffic circle.

                            So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                            higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                            You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
                            channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
                            you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
                            in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
                            Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
                            rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
                            stationary.

                            Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                            James
                            VE6SRV



                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • James Ewen
                            ... The impact your small town activity has on Dallas is minimal, but the impact Dallas can have on your small town by using long paths can be very harmful.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                              On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                              > Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                              > isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                              > it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                              The impact your small town activity has on Dallas is minimal, but the
                              impact Dallas can have on your small town by using long paths can be
                              very harmful.

                              > The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                              > I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                              > latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                              > resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                              > of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                              Yup, your reasoning makes sense. The idea of having a slow rate at low
                              speeds is so that people can leave their trackers on, and not cause
                              problems doing so. Some people leave them on 24/7, and when they are
                              beaconing every 3 minutes, it wastes a lot of network airtime with
                              static information.

                              > Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                              > hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                              Increase that min turn time, and you'll be a very polite APRS users.
                              Now, K5BNI-1 on the other hand is a little crazy. He's sending beacons
                              every 10 seconds. I don't think it's SmartBeaconing, but rather just a
                              static time setting. If you know him well, you have a good chance of
                              showing him the reasoning behind using SmartBeaconing. If you don't
                              know him, you really have to watch how you approach him to ask for a
                              change in settings. I've had people give me explicit instructions on
                              where to go, and how to get there when trying to make contact about
                              changing parameters.

                              James
                              VE6SRV
                            • Dan
                              I went through a similar thought process. In my case, I am trying to prototype how we would track several red cross feeding vehicles in a county the size of
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                I went through a similar thought process.

                                In my case, I am trying to prototype how we would track several red cross feeding vehicles in a county the size of several small states.

                                I came up with the idea that I'm not really trying to figure out their route, I'm more concerned about where they are within a few miles. That meant that packets can be sent less often, and only when the position has changed more than a few miles (which works out to about 20 minutes or so.)

                                In any case, I can poll the tracker to find out where it is at any one time now :)

                                -Dan N7NMD


                                On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                Thanks James. I'd like to implement some of your comments.

                                Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                                isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                                it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                                The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                                I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                                latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                                resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                                of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                                Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                                hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                                Thanks again, James. I'm grateful for your assistance.

                                - Mark
                                N4CMB-11

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of James Ewen
                                Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
                                To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                                On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... < mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                                > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                                > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
                                > every 3 seconds

                                Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                                First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
                                threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
                                necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                                Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                                due to turns more than distance.

                                Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
                                is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
                                time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
                                beaconing at the high speed rate.

                                Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                                minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
                                vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                                recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
                                seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
                                causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you reporting
                                every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                                This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                                okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
                                stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
                                room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
                                when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
                                more room to play.

                                Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                                CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                                required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
                                Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
                                beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                                changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                                The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                                time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
                                a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
                                that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
                                CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
                                you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
                                is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
                                time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
                                traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
                                beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
                                a traffic circle.

                                So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                                higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                                You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
                                channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
                                you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
                                in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
                                Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
                                rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
                                stationary.

                                Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                                James
                                VE6SRV

                                Yahoo! Groups Links


                              • Keith VE7GDH
                                James VE6SRV wrote... ... You must be mistaken there - hi! He just said over on the APRS SIG... ... Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 4, 2007
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                                  James VE6SRV wrote...

                                  > Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                                  > SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM.

                                  You must be mistaken there - hi! He just said over on the APRS SIG...

                                  > I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
                                  > to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
                                  > everyone else...

                                  Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
                                  have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
                                  happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

                                  Also, see a message from Steve KA9MVA from nearly a year ago...
                                  www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016924.html
                                  and a reply from Bob WB4APR...
                                  www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016925.html
                                  where he said "I agree completely with all you said."

                                  I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
                                  (they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
                                  do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
                                  think I have seen a reply on that yet.

                                  73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                                  --
                                  "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                                • James Ewen
                                  ... That just goes to show that he still hasn t even looked at the concept of SmartBeaconing. If he did, he would know that it can easily do just that. I can
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 4, 2007
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                                    On 10/4/07, Keith VE7GDH <ve7gdh@...> wrote:

                                    > > I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
                                    > > to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
                                    > > everyone else...

                                    That just goes to show that he still hasn't even looked at the concept
                                    of SmartBeaconing. If he did, he would know that it can easily do just
                                    that.

                                    I can make the same uninformed statement about every other APRS
                                    application out there. The Kenwood units have the capability to set
                                    them up to beacon every 12 seconds. I don't know of any lower limits
                                    in any software APRS program. I can set UI-View up to beacon every
                                    second. I bet I can set APRSdos to beacon at less than a 1 minute
                                    interval.

                                    Because an implementation can be configured at a rate of less than one
                                    packet per minute does not mean that it will AVERAGE more than that. I
                                    can run SmartBeaconing configured to beacon once every 10 seconds,
                                    drive for 1 hour, and then park for 6 hours beaconing once per hour.
                                    Does this fulfill Bob's 1 minute average criteria?

                                    > Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
                                    > have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
                                    > happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

                                    We do indeed, and I sure am glad that developers like Scott take the
                                    time to understand a concept to the point where they add it to their
                                    own hardware.

                                    > I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
                                    > (they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
                                    > do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
                                    > think I have seen a reply on that yet.

                                    I'm working on that... the bug is in Kenwood's ear if I can believe
                                    the reports from DCC. If Bob is as happy with SmartBeaconing as he
                                    suggests in the messages you point out, then there should be little
                                    reason for not implementing the best network airtime conservation
                                    routine around.

                                    James
                                    VE6SRV
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