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Re: [tracker2] Re: Availability of Tracker2 model OT2m

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  • Scott Miller
    I use Tracker2 to refer to the device independent of the form factor. The T2-135 is a Tracker2, and the OT2m is a Tracker2. The OT2m model designation just
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 1, 2007
      I use Tracker2 to refer to the device independent of the form factor.
      The T2-135 is a Tracker2, and the OT2m is a Tracker2. The OT2m model
      designation just follows the original OpenTracker naming convention,
      where the final lower-case letter indicates the case style. The 'm'
      case is the custom steel case made by Ten-Tec, 'x' is a Pactec CNS-0101.
      The OT1+ shows up in some drawings as OTCr, where 'r' is the Pactec
      CNS-0404 case. I haven't really used the C designation (it still shows
      up in the TOCALL) publicly and just went with + instead.

      T2-135 is just the first thing that came to mind for that particular
      version when I created the new schematic.

      I probably ought to switch to just plain numbers, as I'm clearly not
      very good at thinking up names for these things! =]

      Scott

      P. Suryono Adisoemarta wrote:
      >
      >
      > Is OT2m the new name of Tracker2?
      >
      > Use the same otwinconfig program to configure either T2-135 or the T2
      >
      > 73 de Paulus - N5SNN / YD0NXX
      >
      > Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
      > > Next week would be great!
      > > I'm in NYC next week, so if I'm lucky the Tracker2 will be there
      > > waiting for me when i get back to Norway.
      > > Looking forward to figure out what I have bought, hi!
      > > (Since the manual isn't ready yet.)
      > > I do have read the T2-135 manual, and I assume that there are great
      > > simularities.
      > > The T2-135 mentions a configuration program, but I didn't found it on
      > > the Opentracker website Download section, nor the tracker2 group, I'm
      > > I blind or have looked at the wrong places?
      > >
      > >
      > > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
      > > Oslo, Norway
      >
      >
    • mark.rice@L-3com.com
      With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range... From 16C to a
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
        With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
        90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
        From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
        it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).

        Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
        configuration?

        - Mark
        N4CMB-11
      • Scott Miller
        The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty linear, and I ve tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F. Where is it actually
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
          The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
          linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

          Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
          you have it remoted?

          Scott

          mark.rice@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
          > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
          > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
          > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
          >
          > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
          > configuration?
          >
          > - Mark
          > N4CMB-11
          >
          >
        • mark.rice@L-3com.com
          The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the seat). It s not something I ll reference as an accurate source for air temp, but the temp
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
            The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the
            seat). It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
            temp, but the temp readings are way off. I just wondered if there was a
            coefficient change that it needed somehow.

            - Mark
            N4CMB-11

            -----Original Message-----
            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Scott Miller
            Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

            The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
            linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

            Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
            you have it remoted?

            Scott

            mark.rice@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
            > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
            > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when

            > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
            >
            > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
            > configuration?
            >
            > - Mark
            > N4CMB-11
            >
            >




            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Scott Miller
            No, shouldn t need adjusting. You can spray it with some component cooler spray to see if it s actually working right. It s possible that it s just reading
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
              No, shouldn't need adjusting. You can spray it with some component
              cooler spray to see if it's actually working right.

              It's possible that it's just reading low (if the offset hasn't been set
              properly) and that it's always rather warm due to lack of air
              circulation in the case. The OT2m case is really not an idea place for
              a sensor.

              Scott

              mark.rice@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the
              > seat). It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
              > temp, but the temp readings are way off. I just wondered if there was a
              > coefficient change that it needed somehow.
              >
              > - Mark
              > N4CMB-11
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
              > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>] On
              > Behalf Of Scott Miller
              > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
              > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...
              >
              > The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
              > linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.
              >
              > Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
              > you have it remoted?
              >
              > Scott
              >
              > mark.rice@... <mailto:mark.rice%40L-3com.com> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
              > > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
              > > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
              >
              > > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
              > >
              > > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
              > > configuration?
              > >
              > > - Mark
              > > N4CMB-11
              > >
              > >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
            • James Ewen
              Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings? You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other. James VE6SRV
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
                Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

                You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

                James
                VE6SRV
              • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...) I d have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file shows. The 2 packet
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
                  The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

                  I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
                  shows.

                  The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

                  - Mark
                  N4CMB-11 (OT2m)
                  N4CMB-10 (TT3+ or OT1+)

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of James Ewen
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:09 PM
                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                  Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

                  You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

                  James
                  VE6SRV



                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • James Ewen
                  ... I can wait... ... Have you saved your config file? If so, you can pull that up and read the SmartBeacon parameters without having to pull the unit out of
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
                    On 10/2/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                    > The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

                    I can wait...

                    > I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
                    > shows.

                    Have you saved your config file? If so, you can pull that up and read
                    the SmartBeacon parameters without having to pull the unit out of the
                    truck, or take a laptop out to the truck.

                    > The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

                    Yup, which is why I am interested in knowing what you have set for
                    SmartBeacon parameters.

                    Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                    SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
                    routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
                    possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be
                    sent, just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

                    My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low. This
                    allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which
                    is not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
                    corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
                    times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
                    make sure that this doesn't happen.

                    If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
                    suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
                    happening.

                    James
                    VE6SRV
                  • Steven Palm
                    ... So, are these considered production now and out of beta? I m confused because the product page says that regular production is scheduled to begin in
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
                      On Sep 25, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Scott Miller wrote:
                      > FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave for
                      > DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.
                      >
                      > I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they might
                      > sell out again quickly. Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
                      > should be done by the end of next month.

                      So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta? I'm
                      confused because the product page says that regular production is
                      scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
                      not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)

                      I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
                      of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
                      if they are "golden" or not.

                      Thanks,

                      Steve
                    • Scott Miller
                      They re in production. I got the first 100 in, though I won t have enough enclosures for them all until the end of the month. The manual is still preliminary
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
                        They're in production. I got the first 100 in, though I won't have
                        enough enclosures for them all until the end of the month. The manual
                        is still preliminary (with an update due to be posted tonight) and at
                        the moment I'm designing the sticker that'll go on the bottom with the
                        power specs, model number, and pinouts - but that's not exactly a
                        critical component.

                        Once all of that stuff is done, I'll work on getting the marketing
                        information updated.

                        Scott


                        > So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta? I'm
                        > confused because the product page says that regular production is
                        > scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
                        > not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)
                        >
                        > I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
                        > of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
                        > if they are "golden" or not.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Steve
                      • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                        Hey James, thanks for helping me with these settings. When I got home last night a friend of mine wanted my help putting up a 2meter antenna on his 60-foot
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
                          Hey James, thanks for helping me with these settings. When I got home
                          last night a friend of mine wanted my help putting up a 2meter antenna
                          on his 60-foot tower. He wants to have an i-gate in an area that's been
                          a dead spot for aprs... East of Greenville, Tx. looking eastward on I-30
                          toward Texarkana. So I was busy helping him into the late hours.

                          Anyway, this morning I got the config info on my OT2m that is used in my
                          call, N4CMB-11:

                          At speeds between 0 and 40MPH
                          Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                          Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
                          But not more than once every 3 seconds


                          Granted, those setting need some refinement.

                          And that reminds me, I need to contact K5BNI-1 about his settings too.
                          (If you look at the aprs map, you'll see what I mean...)

                          - Mark
                          N4CMB-11

                          _______________
                          Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                          SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
                          routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
                          possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be sent,
                          just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

                          My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low. This
                          allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which is
                          not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
                          corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
                          times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
                          make sure that this doesn't happen.

                          If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
                          suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
                          happening.

                          James
                          VE6SRV



                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • James Ewen
                          ... Okay, let s look at this to see what s happening. First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed threshold set up a little above
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
                            On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                            > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                            > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                            > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
                            > But not more than once every 3 seconds

                            Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                            First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low
                            speed threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off,
                            it was necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                            Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                            due to turns more than distance.

                            Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally
                            this is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on
                            that. Any time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting,
                            you will be beaconing at the high speed rate.

                            Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                            minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that
                            your vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                            recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's
                            1800 seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens,
                            without causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you
                            reporting every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                            This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                            okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot
                            of stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to
                            make room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow
                            rate when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something
                            active more room to play.

                            Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                            CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                            required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a
                            value Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that
                            you don't beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                            changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                            The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                            time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and
                            turn a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is
                            because at that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to
                            make CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree
                            corner, you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum
                            turn time is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the
                            minimum turn time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that
                            corner (unless traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't
                            send a flurry of beacons when winding your way through a parking lot,
                            or getting dizzy in a traffic circle.

                            So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                            higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                            You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing
                            the channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that,
                            but you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static
                            beacon rate in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does
                            the same, but Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops
                            from it's 1 minute rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32
                            minutes when stationary.

                            Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                            James
                            VE6SRV
                          • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                            Thanks James. I d like to implement some of your comments. Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas isn t far away (45 miles) so I
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
                              Thanks James. I'd like to implement some of your comments.

                              Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                              isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                              it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                              The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                              I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                              latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                              resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                              of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                              Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                              hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                              Thanks again, James. I'm grateful for your assistance.

                              - Mark
                              N4CMB-11



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of James Ewen
                              Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
                              To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                              On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                              > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                              > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                              > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
                              > every 3 seconds

                              Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                              First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
                              threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
                              necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                              Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                              due to turns more than distance.

                              Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
                              is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
                              time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
                              beaconing at the high speed rate.

                              Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                              minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
                              vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                              recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
                              seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
                              causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you reporting
                              every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                              This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                              okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
                              stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
                              room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
                              when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
                              more room to play.

                              Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                              CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                              required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
                              Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
                              beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                              changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                              The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                              time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
                              a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
                              that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
                              CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
                              you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
                              is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
                              time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
                              traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
                              beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
                              a traffic circle.

                              So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                              higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                              You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
                              channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
                              you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
                              in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
                              Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
                              rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
                              stationary.

                              Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                              James
                              VE6SRV



                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • James Ewen
                              ... The impact your small town activity has on Dallas is minimal, but the impact Dallas can have on your small town by using long paths can be very harmful.
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
                                On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                > Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                                > isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                                > it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                                The impact your small town activity has on Dallas is minimal, but the
                                impact Dallas can have on your small town by using long paths can be
                                very harmful.

                                > The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                                > I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                                > latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                                > resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                                > of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                                Yup, your reasoning makes sense. The idea of having a slow rate at low
                                speeds is so that people can leave their trackers on, and not cause
                                problems doing so. Some people leave them on 24/7, and when they are
                                beaconing every 3 minutes, it wastes a lot of network airtime with
                                static information.

                                > Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                                > hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                                Increase that min turn time, and you'll be a very polite APRS users.
                                Now, K5BNI-1 on the other hand is a little crazy. He's sending beacons
                                every 10 seconds. I don't think it's SmartBeaconing, but rather just a
                                static time setting. If you know him well, you have a good chance of
                                showing him the reasoning behind using SmartBeaconing. If you don't
                                know him, you really have to watch how you approach him to ask for a
                                change in settings. I've had people give me explicit instructions on
                                where to go, and how to get there when trying to make contact about
                                changing parameters.

                                James
                                VE6SRV
                              • Dan
                                I went through a similar thought process. In my case, I am trying to prototype how we would track several red cross feeding vehicles in a county the size of
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
                                  I went through a similar thought process.

                                  In my case, I am trying to prototype how we would track several red cross feeding vehicles in a county the size of several small states.

                                  I came up with the idea that I'm not really trying to figure out their route, I'm more concerned about where they are within a few miles. That meant that packets can be sent less often, and only when the position has changed more than a few miles (which works out to about 20 minutes or so.)

                                  In any case, I can poll the tracker to find out where it is at any one time now :)

                                  -Dan N7NMD


                                  On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                  Thanks James. I'd like to implement some of your comments.

                                  Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                                  isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                                  it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                                  The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                                  I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                                  latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                                  resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                                  of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                                  Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                                  hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                                  Thanks again, James. I'm grateful for your assistance.

                                  - Mark
                                  N4CMB-11

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of James Ewen
                                  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
                                  To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                                  On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... < mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                  > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                                  > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                                  > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
                                  > every 3 seconds

                                  Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                                  First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
                                  threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
                                  necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                                  Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                                  due to turns more than distance.

                                  Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
                                  is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
                                  time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
                                  beaconing at the high speed rate.

                                  Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                                  minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
                                  vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                                  recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
                                  seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
                                  causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you reporting
                                  every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                                  This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                                  okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
                                  stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
                                  room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
                                  when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
                                  more room to play.

                                  Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                                  CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                                  required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
                                  Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
                                  beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                                  changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                                  The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                                  time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
                                  a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
                                  that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
                                  CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
                                  you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
                                  is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
                                  time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
                                  traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
                                  beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
                                  a traffic circle.

                                  So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                                  higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                                  You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
                                  channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
                                  you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
                                  in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
                                  Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
                                  rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
                                  stationary.

                                  Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                                  James
                                  VE6SRV

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links


                                • Keith VE7GDH
                                  James VE6SRV wrote... ... You must be mistaken there - hi! He just said over on the APRS SIG... ... Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 4, 2007
                                    James VE6SRV wrote...

                                    > Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                                    > SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM.

                                    You must be mistaken there - hi! He just said over on the APRS SIG...

                                    > I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
                                    > to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
                                    > everyone else...

                                    Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
                                    have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
                                    happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

                                    Also, see a message from Steve KA9MVA from nearly a year ago...
                                    www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016924.html
                                    and a reply from Bob WB4APR...
                                    www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016925.html
                                    where he said "I agree completely with all you said."

                                    I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
                                    (they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
                                    do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
                                    think I have seen a reply on that yet.

                                    73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                                    --
                                    "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                                  • James Ewen
                                    ... That just goes to show that he still hasn t even looked at the concept of SmartBeaconing. If he did, he would know that it can easily do just that. I can
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Oct 4, 2007
                                      On 10/4/07, Keith VE7GDH <ve7gdh@...> wrote:

                                      > > I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
                                      > > to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
                                      > > everyone else...

                                      That just goes to show that he still hasn't even looked at the concept
                                      of SmartBeaconing. If he did, he would know that it can easily do just
                                      that.

                                      I can make the same uninformed statement about every other APRS
                                      application out there. The Kenwood units have the capability to set
                                      them up to beacon every 12 seconds. I don't know of any lower limits
                                      in any software APRS program. I can set UI-View up to beacon every
                                      second. I bet I can set APRSdos to beacon at less than a 1 minute
                                      interval.

                                      Because an implementation can be configured at a rate of less than one
                                      packet per minute does not mean that it will AVERAGE more than that. I
                                      can run SmartBeaconing configured to beacon once every 10 seconds,
                                      drive for 1 hour, and then park for 6 hours beaconing once per hour.
                                      Does this fulfill Bob's 1 minute average criteria?

                                      > Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
                                      > have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
                                      > happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

                                      We do indeed, and I sure am glad that developers like Scott take the
                                      time to understand a concept to the point where they add it to their
                                      own hardware.

                                      > I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
                                      > (they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
                                      > do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
                                      > think I have seen a reply on that yet.

                                      I'm working on that... the bug is in Kenwood's ear if I can believe
                                      the reports from DCC. If Bob is as happy with SmartBeaconing as he
                                      suggests in the messages you point out, then there should be little
                                      reason for not implementing the best network airtime conservation
                                      routine around.

                                      James
                                      VE6SRV
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