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Re: [tracker2] Availability of Tracker2 model OT2m

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  • Scott Miller
    FedEx says they ll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave for DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning. I have only a limited stock of enclosures
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 25, 2007
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      FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave for
      DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.

      I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they might
      sell out again quickly. Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
      should be done by the end of next month.

      Scott

      Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Tryed to order a *Tracker2 model OT2m*
      > <https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=73>,
      > but it was out of stock.
      > When will it be available?
      >
      > Best regards
      >
      > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
      >
      >
      > Oslo, Norway
      >
      >
      > ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!
      >
      >
      > http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm <http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm>
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail <http://no.mail.yahoo.com> med adressekartotek,
      > kalender og notisblokk.
      >
      >
    • arcticpeak
      Well, I ordered one now, we ll see when it turns up, hi! The scary thing is that I don t quite know what I have ordered! But it looks like a versatiile piece
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 26, 2007
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        Well, I ordered one now, we'll see when it turns up, hi!
        The scary thing is that I don't quite know what I have ordered!
        But it looks like a versatiile piece of equipment.
        Is it prebuild or is it a kit?
        (I hope it's a kit, but I can live with a prebuild version also, hi!)

        Best regards,
        LA8OKA Martin

        --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
        >
        > FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave
        for
        > DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.
        >
        > I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they
        might
        > sell out again quickly. Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
        > should be done by the end of next month.
        >
        > Scott
        >
        > Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Tryed to order a *Tracker2 model OT2m*
        > > <https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?
        products_id=73>,
        > > but it was out of stock.
        > > When will it be available?
        > >
        > > Best regards
        > >
        > > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
        > >
        > >
        > > Oslo, Norway
        > >
        > >
        > > ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm
        <http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm>
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
        ------
        > >
        > > Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail <http://no.mail.yahoo.com> med
        adressekartotek,
        > > kalender og notisblokk.
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Scott Miller
        Prebuilt. They re still scheduled to arrive tomorrow, while I m out of town. I should be able to start shipping them next week. Even the through-hole version
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 26, 2007
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          Prebuilt. They're still scheduled to arrive tomorrow, while I'm out of
          town. I should be able to start shipping them next week.

          Even the through-hole version was a bit of a challenge for some kit
          builders, and it's really impractical to offer a kit of the surface
          mount version. I built several by hand myself, but I've got a hot air
          station, microscope, and assorted other equipment that the average
          hobbyist isn't likely to have.

          Scott

          arcticpeak wrote:
          >
          >
          > Well, I ordered one now, we'll see when it turns up, hi!
          > The scary thing is that I don't quite know what I have ordered!
          > But it looks like a versatiile piece of equipment.
          > Is it prebuild or is it a kit?
          > (I hope it's a kit, but I can live with a prebuild version also, hi!)
          >
          > Best regards,
          > LA8OKA Martin
          >
          > --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave
          > for
          > > DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.
          > >
          > > I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they
          > might
          > > sell out again quickly. Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
          > > should be done by the end of next month.
          > >
          > > Scott
          > >
          > > Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Tryed to order a *Tracker2 model OT2m*
          > > > <https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?
          > <https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?>
          > products_id=73>,
          > > > but it was out of stock.
          > > > When will it be available?
          > > >
          > > > Best regards
          > > >
          > > > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Oslo, Norway
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm
          > <http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm>
          > <http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm <http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm>>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
          > ------
          > > >
          > > > Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail <http://no.mail.yahoo.com
          > <http://no.mail.yahoo.com>> med
          > adressekartotek,
          > > > kalender og notisblokk.
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
        • Martin Storli - LA8OKA
          Next week would be great! I m in NYC next week, so if I m lucky the Tracker2 will be there waiting for me when i get back to Norway. Looking forward to figure
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 26, 2007
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            Next week would be great!
            I'm in NYC next week, so if I'm lucky the Tracker2 will be there waiting for me when i get back to Norway.
             Looking forward to figure out what I have bought, hi!
            (Since the manual isn't ready yet.)
            I do have read the T2-135 manual, and I assume that there are great simularities.
            The T2-135 mentions a configuration program, but I didn't found it on the Opentracker website Download section, nor the tracker2 group, I'm I blind or have  looked at the wrong places?


            LA8OKA Martin Storli


            Oslo, Norway


            ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!


            http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:16:02 AM
            Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: Availability of Tracker2 model OT2m

            Prebuilt. They're still scheduled to arrive tomorrow, while I'm out of
            town. I should be able to start shipping them next week.

            Even the through-hole version was a bit of a challenge for some kit
            builders, and it's really impractical to offer a kit of the surface
            mount version. I built several by hand myself, but I've got a hot air
            station, microscope, and assorted other equipment that the average
            hobbyist isn't likely to have.

            Scott

            arcticpeak wrote:

            >
            >
            > Well, I ordered one now, we'll see when it turns up, hi!
            > The scary thing is that I don't quite know what I have ordered!
            > But it looks like a versatiile piece of equipment.
            > Is it prebuild or is it a kit?
            > (I hope it's a kit, but I can live with a prebuild version also, hi!)
            >
            > Best regards,
            > LA8OKA Martin
            >
            > --- In
            rel=nofollow>tracker2@yahoogroup s.com <mailto:tracker2% 40yahoogroups. com>,
            > Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave
            > for
            > > DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.
            > >
            > > I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they
            > might
            > > sell out again quickly. Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
            > > should be done by the end of next month.
            > >
            > > Scott
            > >
            > > Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Tryed to order a *Tracker2 model OT2m*
            > > > <https://www. argentdata. com/catalog/ product_info. php?
            > <
            href="https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?" target=_blank rel=nofollow>https://www. argentdata. com/catalog/ product_info. php?>
            > products_id= 73>,
            > > > but it was out of stock.
            > > > When will it be available?
            > > >
            > > > Best regards
            > > >
            > > > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Oslo, Norway
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > http://www.arcticpe ak.com/radio. htm
            > <http://www.arcticpe ak.com/radio. htm>
            > <http://www.arcticpe ak.com/radio. htm <
            href="http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.arcticpe ak.com/radio. htm>>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
            > ------
            > > >
            > > > Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail <http://no.mail. yahoo.com
            > <http://no.mail. yahoo.com>> med
            > adressekartotek,
            > > > kalender og notisblokk.
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >





            Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og notisblokk.
          • James Ewen
            ... I used the Shake n Bake method of assembling my Proto B version of the OT2... Put all the parts in a plastic bag, and shake until all the parts are used
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 26, 2007
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              On 9/26/07, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:

              > Even the through-hole version was a bit of a challenge for some kit
              > builders, and it's really impractical to offer a kit of the surface
              > mount version. I built several by hand myself, but I've got a hot air
              > station, microscope, and assorted other equipment that the average
              > hobbyist isn't likely to have.

              I used the "Shake 'n Bake" method of assembling my Proto B version of
              the OT2... Put all the parts in a plastic bag, and shake until all the
              parts are used up, and the holes are all filled.

              The instructions given were excellent, and the kitting done very
              nicely. Those with motor or visual impairments might have a bit of
              trouble with building the kit, and let's face it a lot of the amateur
              community is in an age group where those issues are becoming more and
              more of an issue.

              Kits give the builder a sense of satisfaction knowing that the user
              built the unit, but it also adds quite a bit of work for the kit
              supplier. There's a lot of support to help people figure out where
              they went wrong if there are issues with the finished unit.

              I had problems communicating with mine after I built it, and Scott
              wasn't much help at all... of course, I just tore my laptop apart on
              Sunday, and resoldered the serial port connector back onto the
              motherboard. I guess I really can't blame that on Scott though, can I?

              James
              VE6SRV
            • P. Suryono Adisoemarta
              Is OT2m the new name of Tracker2? Use the same otwinconfig program to configure either T2-135 or the T2 73 de Paulus - N5SNN / YD0NXX
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 29, 2007
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                Is OT2m the new name of Tracker2?

                Use the same otwinconfig program to configure either T2-135 or the T2

                73 de Paulus - N5SNN / YD0NXX


                Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
                > Next week would be great!
                > I'm in NYC next week, so if I'm lucky the Tracker2 will be there
                > waiting for me when i get back to Norway.
                > Looking forward to figure out what I have bought, hi!
                > (Since the manual isn't ready yet.)
                > I do have read the T2-135 manual, and I assume that there are great
                > simularities.
                > The T2-135 mentions a configuration program, but I didn't found it on
                > the Opentracker website Download section, nor the tracker2 group, I'm
                > I blind or have looked at the wrong places?
                >
                >
                > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
                > Oslo, Norway
              • Scott Miller
                I use Tracker2 to refer to the device independent of the form factor. The T2-135 is a Tracker2, and the OT2m is a Tracker2. The OT2m model designation just
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 1, 2007
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                  I use Tracker2 to refer to the device independent of the form factor.
                  The T2-135 is a Tracker2, and the OT2m is a Tracker2. The OT2m model
                  designation just follows the original OpenTracker naming convention,
                  where the final lower-case letter indicates the case style. The 'm'
                  case is the custom steel case made by Ten-Tec, 'x' is a Pactec CNS-0101.
                  The OT1+ shows up in some drawings as OTCr, where 'r' is the Pactec
                  CNS-0404 case. I haven't really used the C designation (it still shows
                  up in the TOCALL) publicly and just went with + instead.

                  T2-135 is just the first thing that came to mind for that particular
                  version when I created the new schematic.

                  I probably ought to switch to just plain numbers, as I'm clearly not
                  very good at thinking up names for these things! =]

                  Scott

                  P. Suryono Adisoemarta wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Is OT2m the new name of Tracker2?
                  >
                  > Use the same otwinconfig program to configure either T2-135 or the T2
                  >
                  > 73 de Paulus - N5SNN / YD0NXX
                  >
                  > Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
                  > > Next week would be great!
                  > > I'm in NYC next week, so if I'm lucky the Tracker2 will be there
                  > > waiting for me when i get back to Norway.
                  > > Looking forward to figure out what I have bought, hi!
                  > > (Since the manual isn't ready yet.)
                  > > I do have read the T2-135 manual, and I assume that there are great
                  > > simularities.
                  > > The T2-135 mentions a configuration program, but I didn't found it on
                  > > the Opentracker website Download section, nor the tracker2 group, I'm
                  > > I blind or have looked at the wrong places?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
                  > > Oslo, Norway
                  >
                  >
                • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                  With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range... From 16C to a
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                    With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
                    90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
                    From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
                    it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).

                    Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
                    configuration?

                    - Mark
                    N4CMB-11
                  • Scott Miller
                    The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty linear, and I ve tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F. Where is it actually
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                      The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
                      linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

                      Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
                      you have it remoted?

                      Scott

                      mark.rice@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
                      > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
                      > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
                      > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
                      >
                      > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
                      > configuration?
                      >
                      > - Mark
                      > N4CMB-11
                      >
                      >
                    • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                      The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the seat). It s not something I ll reference as an accurate source for air temp, but the temp
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                        The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the
                        seat). It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
                        temp, but the temp readings are way off. I just wondered if there was a
                        coefficient change that it needed somehow.

                        - Mark
                        N4CMB-11

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Scott Miller
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
                        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                        The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
                        linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

                        Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
                        you have it remoted?

                        Scott

                        mark.rice@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
                        > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
                        > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when

                        > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
                        >
                        > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
                        > configuration?
                        >
                        > - Mark
                        > N4CMB-11
                        >
                        >




                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Scott Miller
                        No, shouldn t need adjusting. You can spray it with some component cooler spray to see if it s actually working right. It s possible that it s just reading
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                          No, shouldn't need adjusting. You can spray it with some component
                          cooler spray to see if it's actually working right.

                          It's possible that it's just reading low (if the offset hasn't been set
                          properly) and that it's always rather warm due to lack of air
                          circulation in the case. The OT2m case is really not an idea place for
                          a sensor.

                          Scott

                          mark.rice@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the
                          > seat). It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
                          > temp, but the temp readings are way off. I just wondered if there was a
                          > coefficient change that it needed somehow.
                          >
                          > - Mark
                          > N4CMB-11
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                          > Behalf Of Scott Miller
                          > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
                          > To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...
                          >
                          > The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
                          > linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.
                          >
                          > Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
                          > you have it remoted?
                          >
                          > Scott
                          >
                          > mark.rice@... <mailto:mark.rice%40L-3com.com> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
                          > > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
                          > > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
                          >
                          > > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
                          > >
                          > > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
                          > > configuration?
                          > >
                          > > - Mark
                          > > N4CMB-11
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                        • James Ewen
                          Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings? You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other. James VE6SRV
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                            Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

                            You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

                            James
                            VE6SRV
                          • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                            The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...) I d have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file shows. The 2 packet
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                              The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

                              I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
                              shows.

                              The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

                              - Mark
                              N4CMB-11 (OT2m)
                              N4CMB-10 (TT3+ or OT1+)

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of James Ewen
                              Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:09 PM
                              To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                              Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

                              You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

                              James
                              VE6SRV



                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • James Ewen
                              ... I can wait... ... Have you saved your config file? If so, you can pull that up and read the SmartBeacon parameters without having to pull the unit out of
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                                On 10/2/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                > The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

                                I can wait...

                                > I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
                                > shows.

                                Have you saved your config file? If so, you can pull that up and read
                                the SmartBeacon parameters without having to pull the unit out of the
                                truck, or take a laptop out to the truck.

                                > The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

                                Yup, which is why I am interested in knowing what you have set for
                                SmartBeacon parameters.

                                Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                                SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
                                routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
                                possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be
                                sent, just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

                                My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low. This
                                allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which
                                is not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
                                corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
                                times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
                                make sure that this doesn't happen.

                                If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
                                suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
                                happening.

                                James
                                VE6SRV
                              • Steven Palm
                                ... So, are these considered production now and out of beta? I m confused because the product page says that regular production is scheduled to begin in
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                                  On Sep 25, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Scott Miller wrote:
                                  > FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday. Which figures... I leave for
                                  > DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.
                                  >
                                  > I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they might
                                  > sell out again quickly. Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
                                  > should be done by the end of next month.

                                  So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta? I'm
                                  confused because the product page says that regular production is
                                  scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
                                  not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)

                                  I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
                                  of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
                                  if they are "golden" or not.

                                  Thanks,

                                  Steve
                                • Scott Miller
                                  They re in production. I got the first 100 in, though I won t have enough enclosures for them all until the end of the month. The manual is still preliminary
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 2, 2007
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                                    They're in production. I got the first 100 in, though I won't have
                                    enough enclosures for them all until the end of the month. The manual
                                    is still preliminary (with an update due to be posted tonight) and at
                                    the moment I'm designing the sticker that'll go on the bottom with the
                                    power specs, model number, and pinouts - but that's not exactly a
                                    critical component.

                                    Once all of that stuff is done, I'll work on getting the marketing
                                    information updated.

                                    Scott


                                    > So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta? I'm
                                    > confused because the product page says that regular production is
                                    > scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
                                    > not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)
                                    >
                                    > I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
                                    > of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
                                    > if they are "golden" or not.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    >
                                    > Steve
                                  • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                                    Hey James, thanks for helping me with these settings. When I got home last night a friend of mine wanted my help putting up a 2meter antenna on his 60-foot
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                      Hey James, thanks for helping me with these settings. When I got home
                                      last night a friend of mine wanted my help putting up a 2meter antenna
                                      on his 60-foot tower. He wants to have an i-gate in an area that's been
                                      a dead spot for aprs... East of Greenville, Tx. looking eastward on I-30
                                      toward Texarkana. So I was busy helping him into the late hours.

                                      Anyway, this morning I got the config info on my OT2m that is used in my
                                      call, N4CMB-11:

                                      At speeds between 0 and 40MPH
                                      Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                                      Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
                                      But not more than once every 3 seconds


                                      Granted, those setting need some refinement.

                                      And that reminds me, I need to contact K5BNI-1 about his settings too.
                                      (If you look at the aprs map, you'll see what I mean...)

                                      - Mark
                                      N4CMB-11

                                      _______________
                                      Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                                      SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
                                      routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
                                      possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be sent,
                                      just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

                                      My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low. This
                                      allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which is
                                      not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
                                      corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
                                      times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
                                      make sure that this doesn't happen.

                                      If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
                                      suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
                                      happening.

                                      James
                                      VE6SRV



                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • James Ewen
                                      ... Okay, let s look at this to see what s happening. First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed threshold set up a little above
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                        On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                        > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                                        > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                                        > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
                                        > But not more than once every 3 seconds

                                        Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                                        First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low
                                        speed threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off,
                                        it was necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                                        Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                                        due to turns more than distance.

                                        Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally
                                        this is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on
                                        that. Any time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting,
                                        you will be beaconing at the high speed rate.

                                        Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                                        minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that
                                        your vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                                        recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's
                                        1800 seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens,
                                        without causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you
                                        reporting every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                                        This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                                        okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot
                                        of stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to
                                        make room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow
                                        rate when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something
                                        active more room to play.

                                        Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                                        CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                                        required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a
                                        value Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that
                                        you don't beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                                        changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                                        The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                                        time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and
                                        turn a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is
                                        because at that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to
                                        make CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree
                                        corner, you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum
                                        turn time is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the
                                        minimum turn time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that
                                        corner (unless traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't
                                        send a flurry of beacons when winding your way through a parking lot,
                                        or getting dizzy in a traffic circle.

                                        So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                                        higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                                        You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing
                                        the channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that,
                                        but you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static
                                        beacon rate in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does
                                        the same, but Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops
                                        from it's 1 minute rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32
                                        minutes when stationary.

                                        Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                                        James
                                        VE6SRV
                                      • mark.rice@L-3com.com
                                        Thanks James. I d like to implement some of your comments. Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas isn t far away (45 miles) so I
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                          Thanks James. I'd like to implement some of your comments.

                                          Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                                          isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                                          it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                                          The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                                          I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                                          latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                                          resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                                          of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                                          Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                                          hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                                          Thanks again, James. I'm grateful for your assistance.

                                          - Mark
                                          N4CMB-11



                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of James Ewen
                                          Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
                                          To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                                          On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                          > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                                          > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                                          > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
                                          > every 3 seconds

                                          Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                                          First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
                                          threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
                                          necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                                          Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                                          due to turns more than distance.

                                          Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
                                          is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
                                          time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
                                          beaconing at the high speed rate.

                                          Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                                          minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
                                          vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                                          recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
                                          seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
                                          causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you reporting
                                          every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                                          This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                                          okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
                                          stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
                                          room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
                                          when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
                                          more room to play.

                                          Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                                          CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                                          required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
                                          Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
                                          beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                                          changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                                          The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                                          time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
                                          a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
                                          that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
                                          CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
                                          you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
                                          is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
                                          time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
                                          traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
                                          beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
                                          a traffic circle.

                                          So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                                          higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                                          You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
                                          channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
                                          you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
                                          in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
                                          Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
                                          rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
                                          stationary.

                                          Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                                          James
                                          VE6SRV



                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        • James Ewen
                                          ... The impact your small town activity has on Dallas is minimal, but the impact Dallas can have on your small town by using long paths can be very harmful.
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                            On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                            > Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                                            > isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                                            > it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                                            The impact your small town activity has on Dallas is minimal, but the
                                            impact Dallas can have on your small town by using long paths can be
                                            very harmful.

                                            > The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                                            > I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                                            > latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                                            > resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                                            > of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                                            Yup, your reasoning makes sense. The idea of having a slow rate at low
                                            speeds is so that people can leave their trackers on, and not cause
                                            problems doing so. Some people leave them on 24/7, and when they are
                                            beaconing every 3 minutes, it wastes a lot of network airtime with
                                            static information.

                                            > Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                                            > hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                                            Increase that min turn time, and you'll be a very polite APRS users.
                                            Now, K5BNI-1 on the other hand is a little crazy. He's sending beacons
                                            every 10 seconds. I don't think it's SmartBeaconing, but rather just a
                                            static time setting. If you know him well, you have a good chance of
                                            showing him the reasoning behind using SmartBeaconing. If you don't
                                            know him, you really have to watch how you approach him to ask for a
                                            change in settings. I've had people give me explicit instructions on
                                            where to go, and how to get there when trying to make contact about
                                            changing parameters.

                                            James
                                            VE6SRV
                                          • Dan
                                            I went through a similar thought process. In my case, I am trying to prototype how we would track several red cross feeding vehicles in a county the size of
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                              I went through a similar thought process.

                                              In my case, I am trying to prototype how we would track several red cross feeding vehicles in a county the size of several small states.

                                              I came up with the idea that I'm not really trying to figure out their route, I'm more concerned about where they are within a few miles. That meant that packets can be sent less often, and only when the position has changed more than a few miles (which works out to about 20 minutes or so.)

                                              In any case, I can poll the tracker to find out where it is at any one time now :)

                                              -Dan N7NMD


                                              On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                              Thanks James. I'd like to implement some of your comments.

                                              Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
                                              isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
                                              it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

                                              The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
                                              I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
                                              latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
                                              resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
                                              of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

                                              Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
                                              hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

                                              Thanks again, James. I'm grateful for your assistance.

                                              - Mark
                                              N4CMB-11

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
                                              Behalf Of James Ewen
                                              Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
                                              To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

                                              On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... < mark.rice@...> wrote:

                                              > At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
                                              > Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
                                              > Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
                                              > every 3 seconds

                                              Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

                                              First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
                                              threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
                                              necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
                                              Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
                                              due to turns more than distance.

                                              Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
                                              is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
                                              time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
                                              beaconing at the high speed rate.

                                              Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
                                              minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
                                              vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
                                              recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
                                              seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
                                              causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you reporting
                                              every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
                                              This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
                                              okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
                                              stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
                                              room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
                                              when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
                                              more room to play.

                                              Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
                                              CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
                                              required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
                                              Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
                                              beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
                                              changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

                                              The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
                                              time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
                                              a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
                                              that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
                                              CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
                                              you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
                                              is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
                                              time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
                                              traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
                                              beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
                                              a traffic circle.

                                              So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
                                              higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

                                              You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
                                              channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
                                              you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
                                              in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
                                              Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
                                              rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
                                              stationary.

                                              Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

                                              James
                                              VE6SRV

                                              Yahoo! Groups Links


                                            • Keith VE7GDH
                                              James VE6SRV wrote... ... You must be mistaken there - hi! He just said over on the APRS SIG... ... Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Oct 4, 2007
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                                                James VE6SRV wrote...

                                                > Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
                                                > SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM.

                                                You must be mistaken there - hi! He just said over on the APRS SIG...

                                                > I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
                                                > to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
                                                > everyone else...

                                                Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
                                                have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
                                                happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

                                                Also, see a message from Steve KA9MVA from nearly a year ago...
                                                www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016924.html
                                                and a reply from Bob WB4APR...
                                                www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016925.html
                                                where he said "I agree completely with all you said."

                                                I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
                                                (they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
                                                do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
                                                think I have seen a reply on that yet.

                                                73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                                                --
                                                "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                                              • James Ewen
                                                ... That just goes to show that he still hasn t even looked at the concept of SmartBeaconing. If he did, he would know that it can easily do just that. I can
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Oct 4, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  On 10/4/07, Keith VE7GDH <ve7gdh@...> wrote:

                                                  > > I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
                                                  > > to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
                                                  > > everyone else...

                                                  That just goes to show that he still hasn't even looked at the concept
                                                  of SmartBeaconing. If he did, he would know that it can easily do just
                                                  that.

                                                  I can make the same uninformed statement about every other APRS
                                                  application out there. The Kenwood units have the capability to set
                                                  them up to beacon every 12 seconds. I don't know of any lower limits
                                                  in any software APRS program. I can set UI-View up to beacon every
                                                  second. I bet I can set APRSdos to beacon at less than a 1 minute
                                                  interval.

                                                  Because an implementation can be configured at a rate of less than one
                                                  packet per minute does not mean that it will AVERAGE more than that. I
                                                  can run SmartBeaconing configured to beacon once every 10 seconds,
                                                  drive for 1 hour, and then park for 6 hours beaconing once per hour.
                                                  Does this fulfill Bob's 1 minute average criteria?

                                                  > Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
                                                  > have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
                                                  > happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

                                                  We do indeed, and I sure am glad that developers like Scott take the
                                                  time to understand a concept to the point where they add it to their
                                                  own hardware.

                                                  > I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
                                                  > (they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
                                                  > do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
                                                  > think I have seen a reply on that yet.

                                                  I'm working on that... the bug is in Kenwood's ear if I can believe
                                                  the reports from DCC. If Bob is as happy with SmartBeaconing as he
                                                  suggests in the messages you point out, then there should be little
                                                  reason for not implementing the best network airtime conservation
                                                  routine around.

                                                  James
                                                  VE6SRV
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