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Re: [tracker2] New feature for the OT2

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  • Keri Morgret
    Is THIS what I paid good money to go to Dayton for? Scott didn t tell me about this type of love at the booth.. Keri N6TME
    Message 1 of 7 , May 4, 2007
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      Is THIS what I paid good money to go to Dayton for? Scott didn't tell
      me about this type of love at the booth..

      Keri
      N6TME

      At 09:48 PM 5/4/2007, James Ewen wrote:
      >On 5/4/07, Jason Rausch <lists@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Joking with love 73's
      >
      >Uh... ummm... errr... That's a MANLY kinda love, right?
      ><insert lots of Tool Time grunting here>
      >
      >Not that there's anything wrong with the other kind/being politically
      >correct 73's
      >
      >James
      >VE6SRV
    • 'Scott Miller'
      It could certainly be done. It already keeps a total count of digi d packets. It d take a little more work to make it a 10-minute count, and to have it
      Message 2 of 7 , May 8, 2007
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        It could certainly be done.  It already keeps a total count of digi'd packets. It'd take a little more work to make it a 10-minute count, and to have it announce the load automatically.
         
        Scott


        From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewen
        Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 8:01 PM
        To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [tracker2] New feature for the OT2

        I just answered a recurring question for the umpteenth time on the
        NWAPRS reflector... How come I see delayed packets.

        My theory that I am sticking with is channel overloading. I run
        UI-Traffic on my home station with UI-View. It allows me to graph the
        traffic that I see at my station. It also sends out an object beacon
        every 10 minutes with the latest channel loading, like this:

        VE6SRV-1>APU25N, TCPIP*,qAC, T2MONTANA: ;SRV
        *040259z5331. 31N\11317. 42W?28 In 10 Minutes

        I keep trying to convice people that even if it is quiet in the
        valley, the channel may be overloaded up at the digipeater. Packets
        that have the hops all used up still get heard at the digipeater, they
        just don't get acted upon. They still use up local air time.

        So I was thinking, maybe I could put a computer up at the digipeater,
        and have the OT2 send the packets to the computer which would be able
        to graph the activity. But then I thought, most people wouldn't want
        to have a computer at the digi, nor would they have internet access
        there. Hmm, what about having the digipeater keep track of the number
        of packets heard, and report that the same as UI-Traffic does. Even
        beyond that it could report packets heard, and packets digipeated.
        This would inform people of how many packets are being heard versus
        the number that get digipeated. It's quite possible to have 30 packets
        heard per minute, but only 10 of those digipeated because the other 20
        had used up paths. To users in the valley below, the channel load
        appears to only be 33% of what the digipeater is hearing.

        This would be a useful tool to teach people that putting digipeaters
        on the absolute highest point around is not such a good thing in high
        use areas. Highly congested areas need to pull the high digis down and
        create more smaller coverage area digis to allow for the higher user
        density.

        To implement something like this would only take a couple variables,
        one to keep a 10 minute timer, one to keep track of the number of
        packets heard, and a final one to keep track of the number of packets
        digipeated. You'd also need a command line switch to enable/disable
        sending the report out. Obviously some people would not want the
        report, and some would. The reporting could be turned on occasionally
        to assess traffic loading, and turned off again later.

        The report could be something along the lines of
        SRV *040259z5331. 31N\11317. 42W?34 of 56 in 10 minutes

        BTW Scott, I'll be at Dayton, and I have a whole sack full of whacky
        ideas I want to throw at you including multiple outgoing path
        settings, and geodigipeating.

        James
        VE6SRV

      • James Ewen
        ... I agree that keeping track of the total number of packets versus number of packets in the last 10 minutes is a bit more of a challenge. The annoucement
        Message 3 of 7 , May 8, 2007
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          On 5/8/07, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:

          > It could certainly be done. It already keeps a total count of digi'd packets.
          > It'd take a little more work to make it a 10-minute count, and to have it
          > announce the load automatically.

          I agree that keeping track of the total number of packets versus
          number of packets in the last 10 minutes is a bit more of a challenge.
          The annoucement portion is similar to a status beacon, you just grab
          the appropriate values out of the variables and stuff them into the
          string.

          Another concept that I would like to see in the OT is the concept of
          multiple outgoing paths. This allows us to send position reports
          varying distances. Bob uses a concept that I developed a few years ago
          and showed him. He tossed it aside, but now he has reintroduced the
          concept, and calls it proportional pathing.

          In the APRS world, local objects are of more importance than distant
          objects. Things that are happening closer to us are of more interest
          than things happening far away. Also, things that are happening
          currently are of more importance than things that happened in the
          past. To implement these concepts we want to set up our trackers to
          report current information to those close to us at a reasonably rapid
          rate, while keeping those further away updated at a slower rate. We
          also want to update changing information as soon as it happens, but
          report static information at a slower rate.

          By using multiple length paths, you can send more packets out to those
          close by, while still sending packets out a couple hops as well. We
          use this concept with the 4 LTP settings in the Kantronics line to
          send packets out locally every 10 minutes, out a little further every
          30 minutes, and the longest distance packets every hour.

          In Byon's TinyTrak, you can make this happen using the alternate digi
          paths option. If you set one path to WIDE2-1, and the second to
          WIDE2-2, you can keep people nearby updated in a timely fashion, but
          effectively decrease the load you are creating on neighboring
          digipeaters by 1/2. Having 3 or 4 alternate digi paths can allow even
          better optimization of your channel load. With 4 paths, I can set up
          paths such as: local, WIDE2-1, local, WIDE2-2 (where local is no
          path). If I beacon every 60 seconds, those within simplex range see me
          every minute. Those within one hop see me every 2 minutes, and those
          within 2 hops see me every 4 minutes. This also works with
          SmartBeaconing (tm), just the timing is obviously different. Also,
          with 4 digi paths we can set up the OT2 in digipeater mode with a
          proportional pathing solution like the KPC-3 settings Bob suggests.

          You'll find that people are interested in letting others know where
          they are by beaconing quite often. They also want to tell people for
          miles around where they are. Lots of beacons going out over a long
          path causes network congestion. Alternate digi paths allow people to
          beacon at a rapid rate, and also get their position reports out over a
          long path. Close in the rate is rapid, but the further you go away,
          the slower the effective beacon rate. This type of operation keeps
          everyone happy.

          I told you I had some ideas I wanted to toss at you. There's still more!

          James
          VE6SRV
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