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GPS units that do not have duplicate waypoint issue?

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  • Jason KG4WSV
    I thought when I used my (old) Garmin GPSMAP 60C with the tracker2, they waypoints behaved correctly. I m hacking out some software of my own that generates
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 6, 2014
      I thought when I used my (old) Garmin GPSMAP 60C with the tracker2,
      they waypoints behaved correctly.

      I'm hacking out some software of my own that generates waypoints, and
      it seems a) multiple GPWPL sentences with the same name results is a
      waypoint trail, and b) this old unit doesn't speak PGRMW. I guess the
      good behavior I saw with the T2 was a result of Garmin binary mode?
      Or maybe I just don't remember correctly? (nah, couldn't be that....)

      Anyway, does anyone have suggestions for handheld (e.g.
      trail/hiking/etc style) mapping units that handle multiple waypoints
      correctly? Or units that have the problem so I know what to avoid?
      Ideally I'd like to use it with a T3, D7, xastir, my own software,
      etc.

      thanks,
      Jason
      kg4wsv
    • Tony VE6MVP
      ... There are pretty rare. Here s a list and down near the bottom in the section titled APRS Compatible GPS units.
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 6, 2014
        At 04:15 PM 2014-04-06, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
        Anyway, does anyone have suggestions for handheld (e.g.
        trail/hiking/etc style) mapping units that handle multiple waypoints
        correctly? Or units that have the problem so I know what to avoid?
        Ideally I'd like to use it with a T3, D7, xastir, my own software,
        etc.

        There are pretty rare.

        Here's a list and down near the bottom in the section titled APRS Compatible GPS units.
        http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Hardware
        Ahh, the Garmin Montana unit at http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=VehicleGPS.  It has a battery and I recall one amateur stated he liked using it while hiking and while driving but I sure could be wrong.

        If there is a specific model you like I'd do my best to somehow locate an amateur who is using such.  I know the Nuvi 350 and the Avmap Geosat series work.

        Tony
      • Jason KG4WSV
        ... unfortunate but not surprising... ... thanks! hadn t seen that list. ... I had looked at the Montana. It has several models and can pretty much do it all
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 6, 2014

          On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:
          >
          > There are pretty rare.

          unfortunate but not surprising...
           
          > Here's a list

          thanks!  hadn't seen that list.
           
          > Ahh, the Garmin Montana

          I had looked at the Montana.  It has several models and can pretty much do it all (although the screen seems just a bit small for auto navigation).  The thing I don't like (besides the price tag) is that the rs232 port is on the USB connector.

          The MAP78 uses the old round 4 pin connector which seems much more suitable that a small USB.
           
          > If there is a specific model you like

          I'm kinda partial to the working, paid-for GPSMAP 60C I already own. :)

          I'm beginning to wonder if a better solution is a beaglebone black with an LCD touchscreen cape running xastir.  The biggest thing missing is the routing and navigation.

          Maybe we'll get the wireless protocols (ANT, etc) hacked into something suitable for APRS.

          -Jason
          kg4wsv
        • Tony VE6MVP
          ... I d like to see an inexpensive serial Bluetooth device. There are rumours that some have gotten the ones on Ebay to work but I haven t had the
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 6, 2014
            At 06:31 PM 2014-04-06, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
            I'm beginning to wonder if a better solution is a beaglebone black with an LCD touchscreen cape running xastir.  The biggest thing missing is the routing and navigation.

            Maybe we'll get the wireless protocols (ANT, etc) hacked into something suitable for APRS.

            I'd like to see an inexpensive serial <> Bluetooth device.   There are rumours that some have gotten the ones on Ebay to work but I haven't had the time/priority to track that down.    Then I can use software on my 10" Android tablet mounted in my vehicle such as APRSDroid and RepeaterBook and others.   RepeaterBook to let me click on a nearby repeater and have it update the settings on my Kenwood D710.  Or if I see a nearby repeater object on APRSDRoid, thus it is traveller friendly and popular in the area repeater that I can click on it and have it change the D710.

            Tony
          • John Ronan
            ... By correctly, do you mean, the waypoint moves rather than generates a duplicate? FWIW, the GPS-V moves , I believe my Foretrex 101 moves as well, but
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 7, 2014
              On 06/04/14 23:15, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
               

              I thought when I used my (old) Garmin GPSMAP 60C with the tracker2,
              they waypoints behaved correctly.

              By correctly, do you mean, the waypoint moves rather than generates a duplicate? 

              FWIW, the GPS-V 'moves', I believe my Foretrex 101 'moves' as well, but I've not used it for APRS in quite a while.

              Regards
              John
              EI7IG





              I'm hacking out some software of my own that generates waypoints, and
              it seems a) multiple GPWPL sentences with the same name results is a
              waypoint trail, and b) this old unit doesn't speak PGRMW. I guess the
              good behavior I saw with the T2 was a result of Garmin binary mode?
              Or maybe I just don't remember correctly? (nah, couldn't be that....)

              Anyway, does anyone have suggestions for handheld (e.g.
              trail/hiking/etc style) mapping units that handle multiple waypoints
              correctly? Or units that have the problem so I know what to avoid?
              Ideally I'd like to use it with a T3, D7, xastir, my own software,
              etc.

              thanks,
              Jason
              kg4wsv


            • Jason KG4WSV
              ... I tried an inexpensive one and it didn t want to talk to my mac. I also tried a non-inexpensive one (~US$50 or 60, IIRC), and it didn t work well either.
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 7, 2014

                On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:
                I'd like to see an inexpensive serial <> Bluetooth device.

                I tried an inexpensive one and it didn't want to talk to my mac.  I also tried a non-inexpensive one (~US$50 or 60, IIRC), and it didn't work well either.  I gave up on serial/bluetooth.

                On the other hand, that was well before Bluetooth 4.0, especially BLE (bluetooth low energy, which may have a different name now?). It seems to be specified well enough that even Apple hasn't found a way to make it incompatible with their IOS devices, so maybe it's time to revisit the subject.

                -Jason
                kg4wsv
              • Jason KG4WSV
                ... Yes. My GPSMAP 60C duplicates. In general, works correctly means works the way I want it to . :) -Jason kg4wsv
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 7, 2014
                  On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 10:31 AM, John Ronan <jpronans@...> wrote:
                  > By correctly, do you mean, the waypoint moves rather than generates a
                  > duplicate?

                  Yes. My GPSMAP 60C duplicates.

                  In general, "works correctly" means "works the way I want it to". :)

                  -Jason
                  kg4wsv
                • John Ronan
                  ... I hear ya! John EI7IG
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014
                    On 07/04/14 17:19, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
                     

                    On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 10:31 AM, John Ronan <jpronans@...> wrote:
                    > By correctly, do you mean, the waypoint moves rather than generates a
                    > duplicate?

                    Yes. My GPSMAP 60C duplicates.

                    In general, "works correctly" means "works the way I want it to". :)

                    I hear ya!

                    John
                    EI7IG

                  • Barry Lankford
                    ... Hey Jason, Your GPSMAP60C probably *did* work correctly -- once upon a time. You probably fell victim to unnecessary upgrade temptation. My GPSMAP76CS
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014
                      On 4/6/2014 5:15 PM, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
                      > I thought when I used my (old) Garmin GPSMAP 60C with the tracker2,
                      > they waypoints behaved correctly.
                      >
                      > I'm hacking out some software of my own that generates waypoints, and
                      > it seems a) multiple GPWPL sentences with the same name results is a
                      > waypoint trail, and b) this old unit doesn't speak PGRMW. I guess the
                      > good behavior I saw with the T2 was a result of Garmin binary mode?
                      > Or maybe I just don't remember correctly? (nah, couldn't be that....)
                      >
                      > Anyway, does anyone have suggestions for handheld (e.g.
                      > trail/hiking/etc style) mapping units that handle multiple waypoints
                      > correctly? Or units that have the problem so I know what to avoid?
                      > Ideally I'd like to use it with a T3, D7, xastir, my own software,
                      > etc.
                      >
                      > thanks,
                      > Jason
                      > kg4wsv
                      >

                      Hey Jason,

                      Your GPSMAP60C probably *did* work correctly -- once upon a time. You
                      probably fell victim to "unnecessary upgrade temptation." My GPSMAP76CS
                      (same firmware) still does work correctly because I didn't apply the
                      updated firmware that Garmin put out that 'broke' it (and I knew what you
                      meant by 'behaving correctly' when I read the first sentence). It was
                      several years ago, and may have even been the very last firmware update
                      that Garmin did for the GPSMAP60/76C(S) series that broke it. Seems like,
                      IIRC, the only thing that 'upgrade' did was fix some foreign language
                      thing, like maybe the handling of text for double-byte languages (I always
                      read the "what's new" part of the revision history, if one is provided).

                      I figured I would probably never need to use double-byte languages, and I
                      definitely preferred my waypoints to move rather than leave a trail, so I
                      let that one pass me by (and I don't think there were any more). I don't
                      recall what the 'last good update' was called (version number), and I don't
                      know if I still have a copy of the file for that version, but if you can
                      find it, you can almost certainly go back to the good one.

                      My GPSMAP76CS doesn't have batteries in it right now, and I'm not exactly
                      sure where the power/data cable is at the moment either, so I can't readily
                      power it up and read the version in the splash screen. But, maybe later
                      today I'll have a chance to try to do that.

                      Also, I think that version came out when I was using different computers
                      than I am now (and those old computers no longer work/exist), so I'm not
                      even sure I still have a copy of the 'good' firmware, but I'll try to look
                      around for that later, too.

                      I think I remember that there was a 3rd party GPS site that had several
                      versions of firmware for that series, but I can't think of the URL or even
                      a good search term to Google for it. Maybe it'll come to me later.

                      Barry
                      N4MSJ
                      PS, I thought the 60C/76C series *did* speak PGRMW. Are you certain it
                      doesn't? Also, Garmin released a specification for their proprietary
                      command/response protocol several years ago that surely provides greater
                      control than NMEA waypoint sentences do. You might even be able to specify
                      the symbol and delete waypoints that way.
                    • crazy_doctor60
                      Maybe it helps, i use gpsmap 76csx without any problems. i wish i can also see other people s track on the screen, but i think i should be happy enough to see
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014
                        Maybe it helps, i use gpsmap 76csx without any problems.
                        i wish i can also see other people's track on the screen, but i think i should be happy enough to see other people's beacons and objects.
                        by the way, anyone know where to buy the garmin 4 pin serial connector? i want to make my own cable but cannot find it here in jakarta.
                        yd0pvi
                      • John Ronan
                        ... http://pfranc.com/ Last time I needed some thats where I got them. John EI7IG
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014
                          On 08/04/14 14:10, crazy_doctor60@... wrote:
                           

                          Maybe it helps, i use gpsmap 76csx without any problems.
                          i wish i can also see other people's track on the screen, but i think i should be happy enough to see other people's beacons and objects.
                          by the way, anyone know where to buy the garmin 4 pin serial connector? i want to make my own cable but cannot find it here in jakarta.

                          http://pfranc.com/

                          Last time I needed some thats where I got them.

                          John
                          EI7IG

                          yd0pvi


                        • Jason KG4WSV
                          ... Nope, been around computers _way_ too long for that. I don t upgrade firmware unless there s a bug that is causing a problem for me personally. ... I
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014
                            On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Barry Lankford <BarryL@...> wrote:
                            > Your GPSMAP60C probably *did* work correctly -- once upon a time. You
                            > probably fell victim to "unnecessary upgrade temptation."

                            Nope, been around computers _way_ too long for that. I don't upgrade
                            firmware unless there's a bug that is causing a problem for me
                            personally.

                            > PS, I thought the 60C/76C series *did* speak PGRMW.

                            I thought so, too. I thought I loaded Scott's custom symbol set to it
                            and everything (back before I killed my T2 hacking around on it). It
                            is entirely possible that I switched to garmin binary mode to
                            accomplish this, though...

                            > Are you certain it
                            > doesn't?

                            Nope, but it honored all the other NMEA sentences I sent to it.

                            -Jason
                            kg4wsv
                          • Scott Miller
                            In my experience the 60CS worked fine when used with Garmin protocol, but not NMEA. Scott
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014
                              In my experience the 60CS worked fine when used with Garmin protocol,
                              but not NMEA.

                              Scott

                              On 4/8/2014 4:36 AM, Barry Lankford wrote:
                              > On 4/6/2014 5:15 PM, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
                              > > I thought when I used my (old) Garmin GPSMAP 60C with the tracker2,
                              > > they waypoints behaved correctly.
                              > >
                              > > I'm hacking out some software of my own that generates waypoints, and
                              > > it seems a) multiple GPWPL sentences with the same name results is a
                              > > waypoint trail, and b) this old unit doesn't speak PGRMW. I guess the
                              > > good behavior I saw with the T2 was a result of Garmin binary mode?
                              > > Or maybe I just don't remember correctly? (nah, couldn't be that....)
                              > >
                              > > Anyway, does anyone have suggestions for handheld (e.g.
                              > > trail/hiking/etc style) mapping units that handle multiple waypoints
                              > > correctly? Or units that have the problem so I know what to avoid?
                              > > Ideally I'd like to use it with a T3, D7, xastir, my own software,
                              > > etc.
                              > >
                              > > thanks,
                              > > Jason
                              > > kg4wsv
                              > >
                              >
                              > Hey Jason,
                              >
                              > Your GPSMAP60C probably *did* work correctly -- once upon a time. You
                              > probably fell victim to "unnecessary upgrade temptation." My GPSMAP76CS
                              > (same firmware) still does work correctly because I didn't apply the
                              > updated firmware that Garmin put out that 'broke' it (and I knew what you
                              > meant by 'behaving correctly' when I read the first sentence). It was
                              > several years ago, and may have even been the very last firmware update
                              > that Garmin did for the GPSMAP60/76C(S) series that broke it. Seems like,
                              > IIRC, the only thing that 'upgrade' did was fix some foreign language
                              > thing, like maybe the handling of text for double-byte languages (I always
                              > read the "what's new" part of the revision history, if one is provided).
                              >
                              > I figured I would probably never need to use double-byte languages, and I
                              > definitely preferred my waypoints to move rather than leave a trail, so I
                              > let that one pass me by (and I don't think there were any more). I don't
                              > recall what the 'last good update' was called (version number), and I don't
                              > know if I still have a copy of the file for that version, but if you can
                              > find it, you can almost certainly go back to the good one.
                              >
                              > My GPSMAP76CS doesn't have batteries in it right now, and I'm not exactly
                              > sure where the power/data cable is at the moment either, so I can't readily
                              > power it up and read the version in the splash screen. But, maybe later
                              > today I'll have a chance to try to do that.
                              >
                              > Also, I think that version came out when I was using different computers
                              > than I am now (and those old computers no longer work/exist), so I'm not
                              > even sure I still have a copy of the 'good' firmware, but I'll try to look
                              > around for that later, too.
                              >
                              > I think I remember that there was a 3rd party GPS site that had several
                              > versions of firmware for that series, but I can't think of the URL or even
                              > a good search term to Google for it. Maybe it'll come to me later.
                              >
                              > Barry
                              > N4MSJ
                              > PS, I thought the 60C/76C series *did* speak PGRMW. Are you certain it
                              > doesn't? Also, Garmin released a specification for their proprietary
                              > command/response protocol several years ago that surely provides greater
                              > control than NMEA waypoint sentences do. You might even be able to specify
                              > the symbol and delete waypoints that way.
                              >
                              >
                            • Barry Lankford
                              ... I found some batteries, so was able to power my 76CS up and see what S/W I was running. Then I couldn t remember how to display the firmware version, so I
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014
                              On 4/8/2014 10:16 AM, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
                              > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Barry Lankford <BarryL@...> wrote:
                              >> Your GPSMAP60C probably *did* work correctly -- once upon a time. You
                              >> probably fell victim to "unnecessary upgrade temptation."
                              >
                              > Nope, been around computers _way_ too long for that. I don't upgrade
                              > firmware unless there's a bug that is causing a problem for me
                              > personally.
                              >

                              I found some batteries, so was able to power my 76CS up and see what S/W I
                              was running. Then I couldn't remember how to display the firmware version,
                              so I eventually recalled that the Garmin has debug and diagnostic screens.
                              I brought up the diagnostic screen (see attachments), and I see that I'm
                              running ver.4.00, and I know for a fact that it moves duplicate waypoints
                              and does not leave a trail of renamed waypoints. BTW, there's also a
                              screen capture function, called "xImage," but it was easier to take a
                              direct photo of the screen with my tablet rather than dig through the dark
                              recesses of my brain to figure that out again. I also found I *do* still
                              have at least six of the firmware upgrade files from ver.3.60 to ver.4.20,
                              including the one for ver.4.00. As far as I can see, Garmin doesn't
                              mention the change in the way duplicate waypoints are dealt with in the
                              revision history. I can send you any and all of the files, but I'd rather
                              you determine for yourself that 76C files are the same as 60C files.

                              I found out through experiment that when a duplicate waypoint is received,
                              the only thing that gets changed is the location and altitude (and possibly
                              the date/time stamp). The symbol remains the same. So, you can pre-set a
                              symbol for an ARHAB balloon and multiple symbols for chase team members and
                              they will remain the same even when updated. You don't want to have a
                              large number of waypoints moving around as screen updates start to become
                              untenable. That's why I asked Scott and Byon a long time ago to include a
                              "filtercall" function in their trackers that receive and decode posits. I
                              eventually wrote a PalmOS program to do that.

                              >> PS, I thought the 60C/76C series *did* speak PGRMW.
                              >
                              > I thought so, too. I thought I loaded Scott's custom symbol set to it
                              > and everything (back before I killed my T2 hacking around on it). It
                              > is entirely possible that I switched to garmin binary mode to
                              > accomplish this, though...
                              >

                              I also made up a set of custom symbols, mostly ham-related. IIRC the same
                              program that does screen captures also up- & down-loads symbols.

                              I also have the official Garmin I/O Software Development Kit, as well as
                              documents for Garmin NMEA sentences, Garmin Proprietary NMEA sentences and
                              Garmin Proprietary Binary protocol (USB and EIA232). The latter was
                              completely unexpected when they released it. Until then, the only thing
                              available for the binary protocol was a couple of reverse-engineered documents.

                              >> Are you certain it
                              >> doesn't?
                              >
                              > Nope, but it honored all the other NMEA sentences I sent to it.
                              >

                              It turns out the User Manuals for the Garmin GPSes tell what NMEA sentences
                              they use (in an appendix), including the proprietary NMEA ones. The 76C
                              does use "some" PGRMx sentences, but PGRMW isn't one of them.

                              > -Jason
                              > kg4wsv
                              >

                              I don't recall how this forum handles attachments, so I'll also address
                              this to your direct email. I can also send the other documents I mentioned.

                              Barry
                              N4MSJ
                            • crazy_doctor60
                              found it. Thanks john. i will try to contact them. ... http://pfranc.com/ http://pfranc.com/ Last time I needed some thats where I got them. John EI7IG yd0pvi
                              Message 15 of 17 , Apr 8, 2014

                                found it. Thanks john.
                                i will try to contact them.


                                ---In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <jpronans@...> wrote :

                                http://pfranc.com/

                                Last time I needed some thats where I got them.

                                John
                                EI7IG

                                yd0pvi


                              • crazy_doctor60
                                Looks like the pfrac.com does not active anymore. if anyone knows how to contact them, please let me know. ... by the way, anyone know where to buy the garmin
                                Message 16 of 17 , Apr 19, 2014
                                  Looks like the pfrac.com does not active anymore.
                                  if anyone knows how to contact them, please let  me know.

                                  ---In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, <jpronans@...> wrote :


                                  by the way, anyone know where to buy the garmin 4 pin serial connector? i want to make my own cable but cannot find it here in jakarta.

                                  http://pfranc.com/

                                  Last time I needed some thats where I got them.

                                  John
                                  EI7IG

                                • Keith VE7GDH
                                  YD0PVI wrote… ... http://pfranc.com Try adding the N. It loads OK from here. 73 Keith VE7GDH www.uiview.org
                                  Message 17 of 17 , Apr 19, 2014
                                    YD0PVI wrote…

                                    > Looks like the pfrac.com does not active anymore. if anyone knows how to contact them, please let me know…

                                    http://pfranc.com

                                    Try adding the N. It loads OK from here.

                                    73 Keith VE7GDH
                                    www.uiview.org
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