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Re: [tracker2] Re: Tracker3 / OT3m - next steps for a new owner (after the manual)?

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  • Tony VE6MVP
    ... You appear to be a ways away from the digis in Minneapolis with not much around you as far as APRS infrastructure goes so you are in a good location to
    Message 1 of 28 , May 2, 2013
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      At 10:25 AM 2013-05-02, wmacris wrote:

      Regarding my second question below, I find it humorous that just after sending my email, one of my packets showed up on APRS.fi! Ahh, the vagaries of the internet. But since only one has been heard, I think I need adjustments in some combination of transmitter power level, or the module's tx audio level or tx delay. I'm using a TYT-UVF1 HT at high power (5W max, likely less), connected to a good roof-mounted vertical antenna that is working well for normal phone usage. (I will be transitioning to use a better radio with a data jack once I build a cable for it). What's a recommended transmit power level for a home base station digi?

      You appear to be a ways away from the digis in Minneapolis with not much around you as far as APRS infrastructure goes so you are in a good location to contribute to the APRS community in your area.     So yes 50 watts could make sense.  If you were in, say, Bloomington I'd say 5 watts is fine.  However I suspect something else is a problem.  Depending on terrain a house antenna should easily hit a digipeater up a few hundred feet at 50 kms/30 miles.

      As far as making up your own cable type in Buxcomm and the model of your TNC and radio at a search engine and see if they have it in stock.  Soldering cables is down on my priority list so they don't get done.  At least for me anyhow.

      Tony  VA6OO
    • Willie M
      Yes, using the HT and base station antenna I can reach the repeaters in the closer portion of Minneapolis fairly well if a bit weakly. I get much better
      Message 2 of 28 , May 2, 2013
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        Yes, using the HT and base station antenna I can reach the repeaters in the closer portion of Minneapolis fairly well if a bit weakly. I get much better performance using a mobile radio on the same antenna, even on low power. So once I get the proper cabling I will try the better radio.

        Unfortunately in my first order I bought just enough hardware to connect the OT3m to my HT... I didn't realize the potential that I'd want to connect up a different radio so soon.


        On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:


        At 10:25 AM 2013-05-02, wmacris wrote:

        Regarding my second question below, I find it humorous that just after sending my email, one of my packets showed up on APRS.fi! Ahh, the vagaries of the internet. But since only one has been heard, I think I need adjustments in some combination of transmitter power level, or the module's tx audio level or tx delay. I'm using a TYT-UVF1 HT at high power (5W max, likely less), connected to a good roof-mounted vertical antenna that is working well for normal phone usage. (I will be transitioning to use a better radio with a data jack once I build a cable for it). What's a recommended transmit power level for a home base station digi?

        You appear to be a ways away from the digis in Minneapolis with not much around you as far as APRS infrastructure goes so you are in a good location to contribute to the APRS community in your area.     So yes 50 watts could make sense.  If you were in, say, Bloomington I'd say 5 watts is fine.  However I suspect something else is a problem.  Depending on terrain a house antenna should easily hit a digipeater up a few hundred feet at 50 kms/30 miles.

        As far as making up your own cable type in Buxcomm and the model of your TNC and radio at a search engine and see if they have it in stock.  Soldering cables is down on my priority list so they don't get done.  At least for me anyhow.

        Tony  VA6OO


      • Tony VE6MVP
        ... Data doesn t like weakly . So yup, you re on the fringes and more power to the downtown digis would likely help. If there was a digi
        Message 3 of 28 , May 2, 2013
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          At 02:38 PM 2013-05-02, Willie M wrote:

          Yes, using the HT and base station antenna I can reach the repeaters in the closer portion of Minneapolis fairly well if a bit weakly. I get much better performance using a mobile radio on the same antenna, even on low power. So once I get the proper cabling I will try the better radio.

          Data doesn't like "weakly"  <smile>.     So yup, you're on the fringes and more power to the downtown digis would likely help.   If there was a digi halfway between you and downtown then that wouldn't be necessary.

          Tony
        • James Ewen
          ... So you know that it s working, and you re good to go. ... The default settings are a good starting point for a new user s typical scenario. That s why they
          Message 4 of 28 , May 2, 2013
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            On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:18 AM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:

            > I feel like I'm past the "how do I turn it on" stage but I'm a bit stuck when
            > comes down to the next step which is putting it to use.
            >
            > I know my tracker is functional and I know it's sending & receiving packets.

            So you know that it's working, and you're good to go.

            > Could use some help with the recommended settings for a new user's typical scenario.

            The default settings are a good starting point for a new user's
            typical scenario. That's why they are the default settings. Many
            people barely get past setting their own callsign in the equipment, so
            it is best to have the equipment in a usable configuration by default.

            > My questions are as follows:
            >
            > 1 - How do I know what digipeater settings are "good" for a given environment?

            You probably mean path settings for your station, not digipeater
            settings, which would be the settings for a digipeater. Again, the
            default parameters are the recommended settings.

            > I am not comfortable using it longterm until I better understand the config.

            http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Paths

            > 2 - Part of why I ask for item #1 is because I would like to see my own station
            > on aprs.fi. This is the second mystery - none of the websites docs have clearly
            > explained how your symbols appear online.

            You're not looking hard enough! :)

            This wiki page explains what it takes to get APRS messaging working.
            It is beyond what it takes to be able to see a station on the
            internet, since it also talks about messaging coming back from the
            internet to RF. Position reports, messages, and every other APRS
            packet all need to take the same route to get to the internet, so the
            first half explains your query, and the whole thing will probably
            answer an upcoming query.

            http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:aprs-messaging-explained

            Go look at the aprs.fi page for your station:

            http://aprs.fi/AC0UK-2

            Zoom out so you can see Minneapolis, and then hover the mouse over
            your station icon. A line will appear showing where the signal from
            your station had to travel to end up on the internet. Right now it
            shows me you got heard by N0QVC-1 in Faribault, 40 km away, and then
            W0YC-10 in Minneapolis 76 km away heard the packet and gated it to the
            internet. Those are fairly long hauls, and if at any time another
            packet clobbers your packet, you're not going to see the result on the
            internet.



            > 3 - Interfacing the tracker to other software - e.g. APRISCE/32 - is a mystery.

            Why is it a mystery? Connect the OT to a computer and follow the instructions.

            > When I had it set to MONITOR ON (not KISS mode) then APRSISCE/32
            > complained about badly formatted packets.

            If you get in your car and select the R position on the gear shift,
            would you complain about going backwards? You have to select the
            proper mode for the program to be able to get the packets from the OT
            in the right format.

            > When I went to USBKISS ON, then it received no packets (even though when
            > on monitor mode I see them repeatedly). It would be great to have a bit more
            > clarity on the exact steps to get success. I've tried a few other programs with
            > similar lack of results.

            There's something else going on... If you are receiving packets that
            you can see with a terminal program connected to the OT, then when you
            disconnect the terminal program, and connect APRSISCE/32 (with the
            proper settings), you'll get packets showing up in APRSISCE/32.

            You ARE disconnecting the terminal program from the port, and allowing
            APRSISCE/32 or other programs access, aren't you? If you have a
            terminal program connected to a serial port, no other program can gain
            access to that port.

            > 4 - As part of making the module appear online, do I need to set my OT3m
            > to have a specific symbol type such as digi?

            No, the icon simply tells other stations what little picture to draw
            on the screen to represent your station. Typically people don't use
            digipeater symbols for their house or car. There are conventions that
            most people stick with, such as a picture of a car, truck, van, jeep,
            or similar for their vehicle, airplane symbols for aircraft, balloon
            symbols for balloons, houses to depict houses, etc. If you want to
            track yourself while on horseback, there's even a symbol for that.

            > Wondering if that affects how the module's packets are processed by other
            > recipients.

            Yes it does... whatever you select as your icon will show up on other
            people's screens.

            > Are there specific data item contents that should be provided in the output?

            Yup, there are all kinds of different packets out there, and each one
            has specific requirements.

            > I have not yet found what I would call a good beginner's guide that addresses such questions.

            Here's your beginners guide:

            ftp://ftp.tapr.org/aprssig/aprsspec/spec/aprs101/APRS101.pdf

            Be aware, it's a little dry and technical, and if you manage to make
            your way through it from front to back, and are able to ingest and
            retain all the information, you will be an expert.

            You're making this much too hard for yourself. You seem to be fixated
            on knowing the minute details at the outset. Get an APRS program up
            and running, and start out by learning the application layer... just
            start learning what to look for on the screen, how to send messages to
            people, and how to interpret what you see on the map.

            Once you get comfortable there, you can start digging into the details
            of how packets are put together, and other things like that.

            --
            James
            VE6SRV
          • wmacris
            Before going to specifics, in reference to your comment Get an APRS program up and running, and start out by learning the application layer -- I had already
            Message 5 of 28 , May 4, 2013
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              Before going to specifics, in reference to your comment "Get an APRS program up and running, and start out by learning the application layer" -- I had already tried, unsuccessfully, to get a few different programs up and functional, hence the series of questions.

              Thanks for taking the time to put together some resources for me as well as the detailed response. Much appreciated!

              --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
              > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:18 AM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:
              >
              > > My questions are as follows:
              > >
              > > 1 - How do I know what digipeater settings are "good" for a given environment?
              >
              > You probably mean path settings for your station, not digipeater
              > settings, which would be the settings for a digipeater. Again, the
              > default parameters are the recommended settings.

              No, I did mean digipeater, since that feature was the reason I chose the OT3m over the OpenTracker USB.

              >
              > Go look at the aprs.fi page for your station:
              >
              > http://aprs.fi/AC0UK-2
              >
              > Zoom out so you can see Minneapolis, and then hover the mouse over
              > your station icon. A line will appear showing where the signal from
              > your station had to travel to end up on the internet. Right now it
              > shows me you got heard by N0QVC-1 in Faribault, 40 km away, and then
              > W0YC-10 in Minneapolis 76 km away heard the packet and gated it to the
              > internet. Those are fairly long hauls, and if at any time another
              > packet clobbers your packet, you're not going to see the result on the
              > internet.
              >

              Yes, I had noticed that there were some even longer hops being taken. As a home station, maybe it does not necessarily need to broadcast its own position over RF but could instead link up through the Internet and act as an IGate.

              >
              >
              > > 3 - Interfacing the tracker to other software - e.g. APRISCE/32 - is a mystery.
              >
              > Why is it a mystery? Connect the OT to a computer and follow the instructions.

              Did that. Failed to obtain success. Found docs online that were not exactly clear as to how to configure the settings for opening and closing the port. References to XML config files; no specific "known-good" examples that I had found yet.


              > > When I had it set to MONITOR ON (not KISS mode) then APRSISCE/32
              > > complained about badly formatted packets.
              >
              > If you get in your car and select the R position on the gear shift,
              > would you complain about going backwards? You have to select the
              > proper mode for the program to be able to get the packets from the OT
              > in the right format.

              I was making the point that clearly the interface worked and was producing output, yet after going to USBKISS mode (as desired) the interface went silent. And in the software apparently no packets were coming in. Or, I was unable to get to any log window that showed proof of inbound data.


              > There's something else going on... If you are receiving packets that
              > you can see with a terminal program connected to the OT, then when you
              > disconnect the terminal program, and connect APRSISCE/32 (with the
              > proper settings), you'll get packets showing up in APRSISCE/32.

              Yes, this is what I was getting at.

              > You ARE disconnecting the terminal program from the port, and allowing APRSISCE/32 or other programs access, aren't you?

              Yes, I did not leave any other programs connected / running.

              > No, the icon simply tells other stations what little picture to draw
              > on the screen to represent your station.

              Sounds good.

              > > Wondering if that affects how the module's packets are processed by other
              > > recipients.
              >
              > Yes it does... whatever you select as your icon will show up on other
              > people's screens.

              No, that is already evident but I meant does it impact actual behavior, for example is packet processing / forwarding applied differently by digipeaters based on the symbol associated with them?

              > > I have not yet found what I would call a good beginner's guide that addresses such questions.
              >
              > Here's your beginners guide:
              >
              > ftp://ftp.tapr.org/aprssig/aprsspec/spec/aprs101/APRS101.pdf
              >
              > Be aware, it's a little dry and technical, and if you manage to make
              > your way through it from front to back, and are able to ingest and
              > retain all the information, you will be an expert.
              >
              > You're making this much too hard for yourself. You seem to be fixated
              > on knowing the minute details at the outset.

              Thanks for the reference. Maybe you misunderstand, I don't feel a need to dive in at a packet protocol level, although I have some interest in that and have done embedded development for years. I am merely asking how to better understand the basics since as mentioned I had not found a really decent "APRS-101" yet.

              > Get an APRS program up and running,

              See above comment. In my case I found that it's not -quite- that easy.

              The reason why I eventually got a few more packets through is that I ran across a webpage describing how to set the deviation using the TX Level and it certainly was way off. It needed to be set to a level of 6 and was instead at 91. Much better results after that.

              FWIW as a rank beginner looking at the GUI, it did not cross my mind that the proper setting for the slider would be to move it virtually "off" to get it right. :)

              > James
              > VE6SRV
              >

              Thanks again,
              Willie / AC0UK
            • James Ewen
              ... Okay, so then instead of wandering off down the garden path with a whole bunch of questions about protocols, specific bits of APRS sentence structure etc,
              Message 6 of 28 , May 5, 2013
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                On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 9:59 PM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:

                > Before going to specifics, in reference to your comment "Get an APRS program
                > up and running, and start out by learning the application layer" -- I had already tried,
                > unsuccessfully, to get a few different programs up and functional, hence the series of questions.

                Okay, so then instead of wandering off down the garden path with a
                whole bunch of questions about protocols, specific bits of APRS
                sentence structure etc, let's concentrate on getting you up and
                running.

                Asking questions on a forum can always be a problem where the true
                root of the issue gets lost in the flurry of answers, most of which
                have nothing to do with the true question being asked.

                I'm going to drop all the queries and comments other than the basic
                entry level, "get it up and running" questions out of this response.
                We'll tuck the higher level questions away for now.


                >> > 3 - Interfacing the tracker to other software - e.g. APRISCE/32 - is a mystery.
                >>
                >> Why is it a mystery? Connect the OT to a computer and follow the instructions.
                >
                > Did that. Failed to obtain success. Found docs online that were not exactly clear as to
                > how to configure the settings for opening and closing the port. References to XML
                > config files; no specific "known-good" examples that I had found yet.

                Okay, explain what it was that you did. Tell us how you have connected
                to the OT3, what mode you put it in, etc.

                >> > When I had it set to MONITOR ON (not KISS mode) then APRSISCE/32
                >> > complained about badly formatted packets.
                >>
                >> If you get in your car and select the R position on the gear shift,
                >> would you complain about going backwards? You have to select the
                >> proper mode for the program to be able to get the packets from the OT
                >> in the right format.
                >
                > I was making the point that clearly the interface worked and was producing output,
                > yet after going to USBKISS mode (as desired) the interface went silent.
                > And in the software apparently no packets were coming in. Or, I was unable
                > to get to any log window that showed proof of inbound data.

                So if you are connected to the USB port on the OT3 (see the previous
                question above), you should be seeing what many people call garbage.
                If you are connected to another port on the OT3, say PORT A, when you
                enable USBKISS, port A will only be a console port. Here's a snippet
                from Scott on that issue:

                > Port A and the USB port are separate ports, but they're connected in
                > that the console only exists on one or the other. Plugging in USB
                > disables the console on the serial port, UNLESS you have USB KISS on.
                >

                >> There's something else going on... If you are receiving packets that
                >> you can see with a terminal program connected to the OT, then when you
                >> disconnect the terminal program, and connect APRSISCE/32 (with the
                >> proper settings), you'll get packets showing up in APRSISCE/32.
                >
                > Yes, this is what I was getting at.

                Unfortunately APRSISCE/32 still doesn't have a terminal program built
                into it, so it is difficult to poke around and see if you can find out
                what is going on. You have to exit APRSISCE/32, connect with a
                terminal program, and poke, then reconnect APRSISCE/32. If the issue
                is in how APRSISCE/32 is connecting/not connecting, you're out of luck
                trying to find it in this manner.

                >> You ARE disconnecting the terminal program from the port, and allowing APRSISCE/32 or
                >> other programs access, aren't you?
                >
                > Yes, I did not leave any other programs connected / running.

                Note the common theme here... we're concentrating on ensuring that the
                software and hardware are talking to each other.

                > I had not found a really decent "APRS-101" yet.

                There isn't a decent APRS-101 yet. The problem is that there are
                thousands of combinations of radios, TNCs, and programs out there. It
                is impossible to give exact wire-by-wire, finger-poke-by-finger-poke
                instructions for every possible combination and permutation. There are
                generic guides on how to get proper audio to and from your radio to
                TNC, specific help from each manufacturer of TNC, and specific guides
                for setting up the software from the software authors (and forum
                residents), but it's pretty tough to give 100% detailed instructions
                for your exact configuration.

                >> Get an APRS program up and running,
                >
                > See above comment. In my case I found that it's not -quite- that easy.
                >
                > The reason why I eventually got a few more packets through is that I ran across a webpage describing
                > how to set the deviation using the TX Level and it certainly was way off. It needed to be set to a
                > level of 6 and was instead at 91. Much better results after that.
                >
                > FWIW as a rank beginner looking at the GUI, it did not cross my mind that the proper setting for the slider
                > would be to move it virtually "off" to get it right. :)

                From page 28 of the OT3 user manual:
                https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf

                The TX Audio Level paragraph talks about that issue.

                The slider goes from all the way to the left to all the way to the
                right because it can be adjusted over that range. Sometimes we just
                like to over think things or outsmart ourselves... :)

                So, when you are connected to the OT3, what port are you connected to,
                and are you seeing incoming packets?


                --
                James
                VE6SRV
              • wmacris
                ... I am using the USB port and when connecting as a console I do see packets (in console mode with the MONITOR ON set). Then, after enabling USBKISS mode I
                Message 7 of 28 , May 5, 2013
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                  --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Okay, so then instead of wandering off down the garden path with a
                  > whole bunch of questions about protocols, specific bits of APRS
                  > sentence structure etc, let's concentrate on getting you up and
                  > running.
                  >
                  > Okay, explain what it was that you did. Tell us how you have connected
                  > to the OT3, what mode you put it in, etc.

                  I am using the USB port and when connecting as a console I do see packets (in console mode with the MONITOR ON set). Then, after enabling USBKISS mode I found that APRSISCE/32 failed to see packets.

                  It appears that my initialization sequence of ARPSISCE/32 is not engaging in USB KISS mode with the OT3m. It is likely a basic config issue that I have just not yet identified. I have not finished reading all the online docs but the program's website seems well written so I assume I might find the info there somewhere. I found mention of manually editing the XML file with commands to open and close the port... and this I have not done.

                  As another test, when connecting to a Linux box instead, I also see packets coming in there (when in console mode, not USBKISS mode).

                  > From page 28 of the OT3 user manual:
                  > https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf
                  >
                  > The TX Audio Level paragraph talks about that issue.

                  I read the entire manual including that section. In fact I even removed the HI jumper because the manual states that this was for Mobile transceivers.

                  Thanks, and I agree, let's focus on getting a program working, in this case APRSISCE/32 seems like a good start.

                  Willie / AC0UK
                • Scott Miller
                  ... I *am* working with a graphic artist on an infographic sort of thing that will at least describe the basic roles in the network - wide digi, fill-in digi,
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 5, 2013
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                    > There isn't a decent APRS-101 yet. The problem is that there are
                    > thousands of combinations of radios, TNCs, and programs out there. It

                    I *am* working with a graphic artist on an infographic sort of thing
                    that will at least describe the basic roles in the network - wide digi,
                    fill-in digi, mobile user, IGate, core server, etc. That will just be a
                    starting point. Maybe as time goes on I'll commission more diagrams to
                    show the details of each segment.

                    The overview one should be done in time to be displayed as a poster at
                    Dayton, and I'll have it on the web soon after.

                    Scott
                  • wmacris
                    That overview sounds cool! I hope my comments didn t come off as criticism of the product line because that is not the intent. I have purchased many an
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 5, 2013
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                      That overview sounds cool!

                      I hope my comments didn't come off as criticism of the product line because that is not the intent. I have purchased many an electronics project over the years that have been the stereotypical hobby-kit-handmade-in-the-basement kind of thing. Yours is not one of those and I'm quite pleased with the level of documentation and production quality of the module.

                      --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:

                      > I *am* working with a graphic artist on an infographic sort of thing
                      > that will at least describe the basic roles in the network - wide digi,
                      > fill-in digi, mobile user, IGate, core server, etc. That will just be a
                      > starting point. Maybe as time goes on I'll commission more diagrams to
                      > show the details of each segment.
                      >
                      > The overview one should be done in time to be displayed as a poster at
                      > Dayton, and I'll have it on the web soon after.
                      >
                      > Scott
                      >
                    • Scott Miller
                      I m really trying to take some time to go back and fill in the gaps, and put out some good introductory material for people just getting into it. The problem
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 5, 2013
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                        I'm really trying to take some time to go back and fill in the gaps, and
                        put out some good introductory material for people just getting into it.
                        The problem is that APRS was a DIY thing from the start and it grew
                        very organically. Programmers and engineers often aren't the best at
                        taking the time to document and explain things to newbies - we'd rather
                        be building stuff. =]

                        Something that drives me nuts about the ham world is that it seems like
                        anyone who knows how to throw together a web page wants to share their
                        knowledge with the world, and often it's just *wrong*. When I went
                        looking for hard data on SSTV format specifications years ago, there was
                        so much inaccurate and incomplete information out there that it took me
                        forever to find the one document I needed. APRS has a lot of that, too,
                        with horrible path suggestions and bad explanations everywhere.

                        I could put together a Visio diagram that conveys the same information
                        as this infographic we're working on, and in fact the stick figure
                        sketch I drew to send to the artist covers the material, but I'm hoping
                        that getting an artist involved and making it look good will help it to
                        displace some of the *bad* information that's out there, and not just
                        add to the clutter.

                        Plus, some nice APRS posters will give me something to hang up in the
                        front office. Right now the only decorations in there are the Cowboy
                        Bebop sketches someone drew on the whiteboard.

                        Scott

                        On 5/5/2013 3:10 PM, wmacris wrote:
                        > That overview sounds cool!
                        >
                        > I hope my comments didn't come off as criticism of the product line
                        > because that is not the intent. I have purchased many an electronics
                        > project over the years that have been the stereotypical
                        > hobby-kit-handmade-in-the-basement kind of thing. Yours is not one of
                        > those and I'm quite pleased with the level of documentation and
                        > production quality of the module.
                        >
                        > --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I *am* working with a graphic artist on an infographic sort of thing
                        > > that will at least describe the basic roles in the network - wide digi,
                        > > fill-in digi, mobile user, IGate, core server, etc. That will just be a
                        > > starting point. Maybe as time goes on I'll commission more diagrams to
                        > > show the details of each segment.
                        > >
                        > > The overview one should be done in time to be displayed as a poster at
                        > > Dayton, and I'll have it on the web soon after.
                        > >
                        > > Scott
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                      • wmacris
                        Since my chosen application has a corresponding Yahoo group, it might be more fruitful for me to move over to that app s Yahoo group and continue reading
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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                          Since my chosen application has a corresponding Yahoo group, it might be more fruitful for me to move over to that app's Yahoo group and continue reading through the archives there in a search for the necessary setup steps. So that's my current plan of attack.

                          --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, "wmacris" <wmacris@...> wrote:
                          > It appears that my initialization sequence of ARPSISCE/32 is not engaging in USB KISS mode with the OT3m. It is likely a basic config issue that I have just not yet identified.
                        • James Ewen
                          ... Okay, so you have a USB connection, which then shows up as a serial port on the computer... what port number? How are you enabling USBKISS on the OT3? --
                          Message 12 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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                            On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 12:57 PM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:

                            >> Okay, explain what it was that you did. Tell us how you have connected
                            >> to the OT3, what mode you put it in, etc.
                            >
                            > I am using the USB port and when connecting as a console I do see packets
                            > (in console mode with the MONITOR ON set). Then, after enabling USBKISS
                            > mode I found that APRSISCE/32 failed to see packets.

                            Okay, so you have a USB connection, which then shows up as a serial
                            port on the computer... what port number?

                            How are you enabling USBKISS on the OT3?

                            --
                            James
                            VE6SRV
                          • wmacris
                            ... COM7, and enabled it using two different methods at different times. First tried USBKISS checkbox in GUI. Then after no progress in the APRS program,
                            Message 13 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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                              --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
                              > Okay, so you have a USB connection, which then shows up as a serial
                              > port on the computer... what port number?
                              >
                              > How are you enabling USBKISS on the OT3?

                              COM7, and enabled it using two different methods at different times. First tried USBKISS checkbox in GUI. Then after no progress in the APRS program, logged in over console, did some debugging (eg look at settings, watch packets come in, etc), re-enabled it via commandline and tried again.

                              Willie / AC0UK
                            • Tony VE6MVP
                              ... Absolutely. (I m a programmer) ... Or old information, such as mentioning RELAY favourably, that hasn t been purged or marked as obsolete or
                              Message 14 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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                                At 05:50 PM 2013-05-05, Scott Miller wrote:

                                >Programmers and engineers often aren't the best at
                                >taking the time to document and explain things to newbies - we'd
                                rather
                                >be building stuff.  =]

                                Absolutely.    <smile>  (I'm a programmer)

                                >Something that drives me nuts about the ham world is that it seems
                                like
                                >anyone who knows how to throw together a web page wants to share
                                their
                                >knowledge with the world, and often it's just *wrong*.  When I
                                went
                                >looking for hard data on SSTV format specifications years ago, there
                                was
                                >so much inaccurate and incomplete information out there that it took
                                me
                                >forever to find the one document I needed.  APRS has a lot of
                                that, too,
                                >with horrible path suggestions and bad explanations
                                everywhere.

                                Or old information, such as mentioning RELAY favourably, that hasn't been purged or marked as obsolete or doesn't have a publication date.

                                This actually is where a Wiki can come in nicely.   One problem in one APRS product is that there are only five people who can update the wiki. So when other folks, like me, come across something that they'd like to add a paragraph or two, then they can't.

                                Tony
                              • James Ewen
                                ... Okay, so after you enabled USBKISS, you shut down OTWINCFG, and or your terminal program, and then connected with APRSISCE/32? DId you get any errors in
                                Message 15 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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                                  On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:52 AM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:

                                  >> How are you enabling USBKISS on the OT3?
                                  >
                                  > COM7, and enabled it using two different methods at different times. First tried
                                  > USBKISS checkbox in GUI. Then after no progress in the APRS program, logged
                                  > in over console, did some debugging (eg look at settings, watch packets come
                                  > in, etc), re-enabled it via commandline and tried again.

                                  Okay, so after you enabled USBKISS, you shut down OTWINCFG, and or
                                  your terminal program, and then connected with APRSISCE/32? DId you
                                  get any errors in the port log?

                                  --
                                  James
                                  VE6SRV
                                • Scott Miller
                                  ... Unfortunately the Argent wiki got trashed by spammers. I locked it down but the registration process is broken. I ve got to find time to get in there and
                                  Message 16 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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                                    > Or old information, such as mentioning RELAY favourably, that hasn't
                                    > been purged or marked as obsolete or doesn't have a publication date.
                                    >
                                    > This actually is where a Wiki can come in nicely. One problem in one
                                    > APRS product is that there are only five people who can update the wiki.
                                    > So when other folks, like me, come across something that they'd like to
                                    > add a paragraph or two, then they can't.

                                    Unfortunately the Argent wiki got trashed by spammers. I locked it down
                                    but the registration process is broken. I've got to find time to get in
                                    there and figure out what went wrong. I think the info.aprs.net wiki is
                                    working OK, and I upgraded it at the same time, so I should probably
                                    compare the two.

                                    Scott
                                  • buckeye4330
                                    I too am interested in getting a Argent OT3 and a bionics GPS so I have been reading these post with great interest. from what I understand Scott is the person
                                    Message 17 of 28 , May 7, 2013
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                                      I too am interested in getting a Argent OT3 and a bionics GPS so I have been reading these post with great interest. from what I understand Scott is the person I need to talk to altho I only live 20 miles from Dayton I won't be able to attend hard for me to walk will Argent have a booth if so I will sent in a friend and have him pick up what I need
                                      so keep this thread going I too need to know
                                      Larry KB8EMD

                                      --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Or old information, such as mentioning RELAY favourably, that hasn't
                                      > > been purged or marked as obsolete or doesn't have a publication date.
                                      > >
                                      > > This actually is where a Wiki can come in nicely. One problem in one
                                      > > APRS product is that there are only five people who can update the wiki.
                                      > > So when other folks, like me, come across something that they'd like to
                                      > > add a paragraph or two, then they can't.
                                      >
                                      > Unfortunately the Argent wiki got trashed by spammers. I locked it down
                                      > but the registration process is broken. I've got to find time to get in
                                      > there and figure out what went wrong. I think the info.aprs.net wiki is
                                      > working OK, and I upgraded it at the same time, so I should probably
                                      > compare the two.
                                      >
                                      > Scott
                                      >
                                    • Scott Miller
                                      We ll be in the east hall, 504-505 again. We re building and testing like crazy to try to get stuff ready in time to sell there. Scott
                                      Message 18 of 28 , May 7, 2013
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                                        We'll be in the east hall, 504-505 again. We're building and testing
                                        like crazy to try to get stuff ready in time to sell there.

                                        Scott

                                        On 5/7/2013 5:34 PM, buckeye4330 wrote:
                                        > I too am interested in getting a Argent OT3 and a bionics GPS so I have
                                        > been reading these post with great interest. from what I understand
                                        > Scott is the person I need to talk to altho I only live 20 miles from
                                        > Dayton I won't be able to attend hard for me to walk will Argent have a
                                        > booth if so I will sent in a friend and have him pick up what I need
                                        > so keep this thread going I too need to know
                                        > Larry KB8EMD
                                        >
                                        > --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                        > Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > > Or old information, such as mentioning RELAY favourably, that hasn't
                                        > > > been purged or marked as obsolete or doesn't have a publication date.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This actually is where a Wiki can come in nicely. One problem in one
                                        > > > APRS product is that there are only five people who can update the
                                        > wiki.
                                        > > > So when other folks, like me, come across something that they'd like to
                                        > > > add a paragraph or two, then they can't.
                                        > >
                                        > > Unfortunately the Argent wiki got trashed by spammers. I locked it down
                                        > > but the registration process is broken. I've got to find time to get in
                                        > > there and figure out what went wrong. I think the info.aprs.net wiki is
                                        > > working OK, and I upgraded it at the same time, so I should probably
                                        > > compare the two.
                                        > >
                                        > > Scott
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Willie M
                                        Hi James, I have traffic passing between the tracker and the PC now. The root of the problem was the port setup performed by APRSISCE/32, specifically the
                                        Message 19 of 28 , May 8, 2013
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                                          Hi James, I have traffic passing between the tracker and the PC now. The
                                          root of the problem was the port setup performed by APRSISCE/32,
                                          specifically the OpenCmd and CloseCmd which were interfering with the
                                          tracker's functioning in KISS mode. I solved it by setting the tracker's
                                          mode to be USBKISS with the Windows config program, so no further config
                                          was needed for the module to function, then I manually edited the XML
                                          config for APRSISCE/32 and remove the configuration steps of the open and
                                          close - basically deleting all but one OpenCmd and CloseCmd, which I set to
                                          be the null commands (it's mentioned in the APRSISCE/32 wiki).

                                          If anyone is interested, the resulting XML for my serial port (it's the
                                          USBKISS one) is below. The USB port has already been set to USBKISS, so on
                                          power-up / attachment to the PC, you don't need to do any further config of
                                          the port.

                                          <!--RFPort[0]-->
                                          <RFPort Name="OT3m">
                                          <Protocol>KISS</Protocol>
                                          <Device>COM7:9600,N,8,1</Device>
                                          <RfBaud>1200</RfBaud>
                                          <OpenCmd>~!!0</OpenCmd>
                                          <CloseCmd>~!!0</CloseCmd>
                                          <QuietTime>128</QuietTime>
                                          <Enabled>1</Enabled>
                                          <XmitEnabled>1</XmitEnabled>
                                          <ProvidesNMEA>0</ProvidesNMEA>
                                          <RFtoISEnabled>1</RFtoISEnabled>
                                          <IStoRFEnabled>1</IStoRFEnabled>
                                          <MyCallNot3rd>0</MyCallNot3rd>
                                          <BeaconingEnabled>1</BeaconingEnabled>
                                          <BeaconPath></BeaconPath>
                                          <BulletinObjectEnabled>1</BulletinObjectEnabled>
                                          <DXEnabled>0</DXEnabled>
                                          <DXPath></DXPath>
                                          <MessagesEnabled>1</MessagesEnabled>
                                          <MessagePath></MessagePath>
                                          <TelemetryEnabled>0</TelemetryEnabled>
                                          <TelemetryPath></TelemetryPath>
                                          </RFPort>
                                          <!--RFPort[0]-->


                                          Thanks for your help,
                                          Willie . AC0UK



                                          On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:22 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

                                          > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:52 AM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >> How are you enabling USBKISS on the OT3?
                                          > >
                                          > > COM7, and enabled it using two different methods at different times.
                                          > First tried
                                          > > USBKISS checkbox in GUI. Then after no progress in the APRS program,
                                          > logged
                                          > > in over console, did some debugging (eg look at settings, watch packets
                                          > come
                                          > > in, etc), re-enabled it via commandline and tried again.
                                          >
                                          > Okay, so after you enabled USBKISS, you shut down OTWINCFG, and or
                                          > your terminal program, and then connected with APRSISCE/32? DId you
                                          > get any errors in the port log?
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > James
                                          > VE6SRV
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Fred Hillhouse
                                          SimplyKISS in APRSIS32 does the basic KISS for you. I use it for my OT2/3s. Best regards, Fred, N7FMH _____ From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                          Message 20 of 28 , May 8, 2013
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                                            SimplyKISS in APRSIS32 does the basic KISS for you. I use it for my OT2/3s.
                                             
                                            Best regards,
                                            Fred, N7FMH
                                             


                                            From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Willie M
                                            Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 15:57
                                            To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: Tracker3 / OT3m - next steps for a new owner (after the manual)?

                                             

                                            Hi James, I have traffic passing between the tracker and the PC now. The
                                            root of the problem was the port setup performed by APRSISCE/32,
                                            specifically the OpenCmd and CloseCmd which were interfering with the
                                            tracker's functioning in KISS mode. I solved it by setting the tracker's
                                            mode to be USBKISS with the Windows config program, so no further config
                                            was needed for the module to function, then I manually edited the XML
                                            config for APRSISCE/32 and remove the configuration steps of the open and
                                            close - basically deleting all but one OpenCmd and CloseCmd, which I set to
                                            be the null commands (it's mentioned in the APRSISCE/32 wiki).

                                            If anyone is interested, the resulting XML for my serial port (it's the
                                            USBKISS one) is below. The USB port has already been set to USBKISS, so on
                                            power-up / attachment to the PC, you don't need to do any further config of
                                            the port.

                                            <!--RFPort[0]-->
                                            <RFPort Name="OT3m">
                                            <Protocol>KISS</Protocol>
                                            <Device>COM7:9600,N,8,1</Device>
                                            <RfBaud>1200</RfBaud>
                                            <OpenCmd>~!!0</OpenCmd>
                                            <CloseCmd>~!!0</CloseCmd>
                                            <QuietTime>128</QuietTime>
                                            <Enabled>1</Enabled>
                                            <XmitEnabled>1</XmitEnabled>
                                            <ProvidesNMEA>0</ProvidesNMEA>
                                            <RFtoISEnabled>1</RFtoISEnabled>
                                            <IStoRFEnabled>1</IStoRFEnabled>
                                            <MyCallNot3rd>0</MyCallNot3rd>
                                            <BeaconingEnabled>1</BeaconingEnabled>
                                            <BeaconPath></BeaconPath>
                                            <BulletinObjectEnabled>1</BulletinObjectEnabled>
                                            <DXEnabled>0</DXEnabled>
                                            <DXPath></DXPath>
                                            <MessagesEnabled>1</MessagesEnabled>
                                            <MessagePath></MessagePath>
                                            <TelemetryEnabled>0</TelemetryEnabled>
                                            <TelemetryPath></TelemetryPath>
                                            </RFPort>
                                            <!--RFPort[0]-->

                                            Thanks for your help,
                                            Willie . AC0UK

                                            On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:22 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

                                            > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:52 AM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >> How are you enabling USBKISS on the OT3?
                                            > >
                                            > > COM7, and enabled it using two different methods at different times.
                                            > First tried
                                            > > USBKISS checkbox in GUI. Then after no progress in the APRS program,
                                            > logged
                                            > > in over console, did some debugging (eg look at settings, watch packets
                                            > come
                                            > > in, etc), re-enabled it via commandline and tried again.
                                            >
                                            > Okay, so after you enabled USBKISS, you shut down OTWINCFG, and or
                                            > your terminal program, and then connected with APRSISCE/32? DId you
                                            > get any errors in the port log?
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > James
                                            > VE6SRV
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                          • James Ewen
                                            ... Yeah, you turned the KISS mode into SIMPLYKISS like Fred said. That s documented in the wiki: http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/port-kiss Glad you found the
                                            Message 21 of 28 , May 8, 2013
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                                              On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Willie M <wmacris@...> wrote:

                                              > Hi James, I have traffic passing between the tracker and the PC now. The
                                              > root of the problem was the port setup performed by APRSISCE/32,
                                              > specifically the OpenCmd and CloseCmd which were interfering with the
                                              > tracker's functioning in KISS mode. I solved it by setting the tracker's
                                              > mode to be USBKISS with the Windows config program, so no further config
                                              > was needed for the module to function, then I manually edited the XML
                                              > config for APRSISCE/32 and remove the configuration steps of the open and
                                              > close - basically deleting all but one OpenCmd and CloseCmd, which I set to
                                              > be the null commands (it's mentioned in the APRSISCE/32 wiki).

                                              Yeah, you turned the KISS mode into SIMPLYKISS like Fred said.

                                              That's documented in the wiki:

                                              http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/port-kiss

                                              Glad you found the issue. Have fun with the program, and when you need
                                              more help with it, ask away on the APRSISCE/32 forum.

                                              --
                                              James
                                              VE6SRV
                                            • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                                              You get the same no-op effect if you use a Simply(KISS) port which is recommended for devices that can be locked into KISS mode like the USBKISS port on the
                                              Message 22 of 28 , May 9, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                You get the same no-op effect if you use a Simply(KISS) port which is
                                                recommended for devices that can be locked into KISS mode like the
                                                USBKISS port on the T3. The (original) KISS mode in APRSISCE/32 will
                                                automatically provide Kenwood-type open and close commands which will
                                                drop the Tracker2 family ports out of KISS mode when APRSISCE/32 is closed.

                                                I'm glad you figured that out and apologize for having been away from
                                                e-mail for a while. Only about 200 more unread messages to go.

                                                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                                On 5/8/2013 3:57 PM, Willie M wrote:
                                                > Hi James, I have traffic passing between the tracker and the PC now. The
                                                > root of the problem was the port setup performed by APRSISCE/32,
                                                > specifically the OpenCmd and CloseCmd which were interfering with the
                                                > tracker's functioning in KISS mode. I solved it by setting the tracker's
                                                > mode to be USBKISS with the Windows config program, so no further config
                                                > was needed for the module to function, then I manually edited the XML
                                                > config for APRSISCE/32 and remove the configuration steps of the open and
                                                > close - basically deleting all but one OpenCmd and CloseCmd, which I set to
                                                > be the null commands (it's mentioned in the APRSISCE/32 wiki).
                                                >
                                                > If anyone is interested, the resulting XML for my serial port (it's the
                                                > USBKISS one) is below. The USB port has already been set to USBKISS, so on
                                                > power-up / attachment to the PC, you don't need to do any further config of
                                                > the port.
                                                >
                                                > <!--RFPort[0]-->
                                                > <RFPort Name="OT3m">
                                                > <Protocol>KISS</Protocol>
                                                > <Device>COM7:9600,N,8,1</Device>
                                                > <RfBaud>1200</RfBaud>
                                                > <OpenCmd>~!!0</OpenCmd>
                                                > <CloseCmd>~!!0</CloseCmd>
                                                > <QuietTime>128</QuietTime>
                                                > <Enabled>1</Enabled>
                                                > <XmitEnabled>1</XmitEnabled>
                                                > <ProvidesNMEA>0</ProvidesNMEA>
                                                > <RFtoISEnabled>1</RFtoISEnabled>
                                                > <IStoRFEnabled>1</IStoRFEnabled>
                                                > <MyCallNot3rd>0</MyCallNot3rd>
                                                > <BeaconingEnabled>1</BeaconingEnabled>
                                                > <BeaconPath></BeaconPath>
                                                > <BulletinObjectEnabled>1</BulletinObjectEnabled>
                                                > <DXEnabled>0</DXEnabled>
                                                > <DXPath></DXPath>
                                                > <MessagesEnabled>1</MessagesEnabled>
                                                > <MessagePath></MessagePath>
                                                > <TelemetryEnabled>0</TelemetryEnabled>
                                                > <TelemetryPath></TelemetryPath>
                                                > </RFPort>
                                                > <!--RFPort[0]-->
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Thanks for your help,
                                                > Willie . AC0UK
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:22 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:52 AM, wmacris <wmacris@...> wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>>> How are you enabling USBKISS on the OT3?
                                                >>> COM7, and enabled it using two different methods at different times.
                                                >> First tried
                                                >>> USBKISS checkbox in GUI. Then after no progress in the APRS program,
                                                >> logged
                                                >>> in over console, did some debugging (eg look at settings, watch packets
                                                >> come
                                                >>> in, etc), re-enabled it via commandline and tried again.
                                                >> Okay, so after you enabled USBKISS, you shut down OTWINCFG, and or
                                                >> your terminal program, and then connected with APRSISCE/32? DId you
                                                >> get any errors in the port log?
                                                >>
                                                >> --
                                                >> James
                                                >> VE6SRV
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> ------------------------------------
                                                >>
                                                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Randy
                                                Dayton I wandered why there was no product to fill my order I placed a few days ago. I guess I will get the left overs after Dayton. Randy/n4jzy
                                                Message 23 of 28 , May 9, 2013
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                                                  Dayton

                                                  I wandered why there was no product to fill my order I placed a few days ago. I guess I will get the left overs after Dayton.

                                                  Randy/n4jzy

                                                  --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, "buckeye4330" <larrylb@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I too am interested in getting a Argent OT3 and a bionics GPS so I have been reading these post with great interest. from what I understand Scott is the person I need to talk to altho I only live 20 miles from Dayton I won't be able to attend hard for me to walk will
                                                • Scott Miller
                                                  Today will actually be our first shipment of stuff to Dayton. We ve been going flat out for weeks to build stuff, but we re still not as far ahead as I d
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , May 9, 2013
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Today will actually be our first shipment of stuff to Dayton. We've
                                                    been going flat out for weeks to build stuff, but we're still not as far
                                                    ahead as I'd like. We have SSTVCAMs and T3-135s and minis done in
                                                    reasonable quantities, but the rest are going to keep us busy for the
                                                    next week.

                                                    Scott

                                                    On 5/9/2013 10:18 AM, Randy wrote:
                                                    > Dayton
                                                    >
                                                    > I wandered why there was no product to fill my order I placed a few days
                                                    > ago. I guess I will get the left overs after Dayton.
                                                    >
                                                    > Randy/n4jzy
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                    > "buckeye4330" <larrylb@...> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I too am interested in getting a Argent OT3 and a bionics GPS so I
                                                    > have been reading these post with great interest. from what I understand
                                                    > Scott is the person I need to talk to altho I only live 20 miles from
                                                    > Dayton I won't be able to attend hard for me to walk will
                                                    >
                                                    >
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