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Re: [tracker2] Digipeater

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  • James Ewen
    ... Here s the tricky part about ham radio... you need to use ham radio to monitor ham radio. KC0WNY-14 looks to be a Kenwood TM-D710. That radio can be used
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 24, 2013
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      On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Teddy Banks <tbanks204@...> wrote:

      > OK, the reasion for all the questions is, I am trying to learn how to find
      > out if my home Station KC0WNY-1, (changed the ID) is doing what I think it
      > should do, and that is, receive the packets sent from my mobile unit(s) one
      > being my wife's Car, She is a ham also, with an ID of KC0WNY-14, when I
      > looked at the raw data today, from both stations, I can see the packets
      > being picked up by a station ID of Walnut. The reasion I put up my station
      > is because there is not much APRS Traffic in my local area, and I thought it
      > would help for tracking purposes with my 2 mobile units. My antenna is about
      > 30 ft high, and is a diamond 2 mtr ground plane, I really enjoy this APRS
      > Technology, but I am pretty thick headed, I guess that about covers it.

      Here's the tricky part about ham radio... you need to use ham radio to
      monitor ham radio.

      KC0WNY-14 looks to be a Kenwood TM-D710. That radio can be used for
      APRS, and it looks like it is. The wonderful thing about the TM-D710
      over other APRS devices like the TinyTrak and OpenTracker lines when
      used as TX only devices is that the TM-D710 has a transceiver, TNC,
      and display all built into one integrated package.

      So, to figure out if your home station is acting as a digipeater, all
      you need to do is to go out to your wife's car, and start up the
      TM-D710. It should fire out a position packet as soon as the attached
      GPS gets a position lock. The radio will transmit. If your home
      station is configured properly, and responds to the path used by your
      wife's car, you will see (on the display of the TM-D710) the words "MY
      POSITION"which will pop up on the top of the display. You will also
      see the S/RF meter indicate reception of a signal. The BUSY indicator
      should also light up. If you have your volume up, and Voice Alert
      disabled, you will hear a packet burst. If you have incoming packet
      beeps enabled, you'll also hear a be-doop sound indicating reception
      of a packet. You can also hit the P.MON button and watch the incoming
      packets to see if you can see a packet being digipeated by your
      station, but you need to be pretty quick to catch that flashing by,
      especially with a GPS on the radio.

      The radio gives all kinds of indications that it is receiving signals,
      all you have to do is pay attention to what it is telling you. You've
      indicated that the closest digipeater to you is 40 to 50 miles away
      (other than your station). I see MATFLD at 57 km (about 35 miles), so
      if you are seeing full scale signals of your digipeats, you can be
      pretty sure that you are seeing digipeats from your station.

      Another way you can figure out if your DR-135 and Tracker2 combination
      are working as a digipeater is to sit next to those devices and
      observe them. Turn up the volume on the DR-135, and watch the lights
      on the Tracker2. You should be able to hear a packet being received,
      and observe the RX light on the Tracker2. If the packet is asking for
      a digipeat and the Tracker2 is configured to respond to that alias,
      then the Tracker2 will light up it's TX light, and you should see the
      DR-135 go into TX mode, and send the packet out again.

      If you have an HT or other radio available, you can tune to 144.390
      and listen to the activity. You should hear packets from other
      stations (your wife), and then immediately after, a second
      transmission, which should correspond with the TX lights as indicated
      in the paragraph above.

      So, there's all kinds of information available to let you know if your
      station is working as desired.

      Now, if you want to observe the APRS activity via the internet, be
      prepared to be sorely disappointed because as we have posted
      continually over the years, the APRS-IS is designed to block ALL but
      the FIRST copy of a packet that is received. You will NEVER be able to
      tell exactly what is happening on the APRS RF network when observing
      the APRS-IS stream via a site such as aprs.fi or findu.com. The
      information you are interested in seeing is blocked from view.
      Occasionally you might get a glimpse at some of the desired data, but
      the APRS-IS is designed to block access to all but the first copy of a
      packet heard.

      Packets from your area are being heard directly by KC0U-1, which means
      that any subsequent digipeats would never get seen on the normal
      APRS-IS feed.

      However (isn't there always a however?), KC0U-1 is running
      APRSISCE/32, an application that sends an unfiltered stream back home
      to it's master as well as feeding the normal filtered stream to the
      APRS-IS. This unfiltered stream allows us a peek into the real APRS
      network operations.

      Here's a look at what KC0U-1 has seen over the last 24 hours:

      http://ldeffenb.dnsalias.net:3000/catchall?FormName=rfTRAFFIC&Action=Display&IGates=KC0U-1

      There's no legend, but if I recall properly, the numbers in the boxes
      decode as follows:

      3+10 means 3 packets originating from the station, and 10 packets
      digipeated by the station.

      I've been snooping looking for packets digipeated by your station, but
      the change in station callsign made my snooping void as I was looking
      for packets digipeated by KC0WNY... now I'm watching for packets
      digipeated by KC0WNY-1.

      --
      James
      VE6SRV
    • James Ewen
      Well, snooping finally paid off... 2013-04-25T00:39:56 EMPRIA APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2, KSn, Emporia WX0U
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 24, 2013
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        Well, snooping finally paid off...

        2013-04-25T00:39:56
        EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
        KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
        2013-04-25T01:09:52
        EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
        KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
        2013-04-25T01:39:54
        EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
        KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
        2013-04-25T02:07:07
        W0KCN-4>APU25N,LAW*,EMPRIA*,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:=3922.25N/09446.81WoPlatte
        Co EOC rosmith1@... {UIV32}
        2013-04-25T02:09:52
        EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
        KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
        2013-04-25T02:39:53
        EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
        KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
        2013-04-25T02:45:50
        K0KU>BEACON,AUBURN*,WIDE1*,LAW*,EMPRIA*,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:;146.76-KS*111111z3857.
        N/09515. WrT088 R30m Net Tu8pm
        2013-04-25T03:10:04
        EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
        KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...


        You can hear the EMPRIA digipeater at least.

        Oh yeah, I forgot to give you yet another way to observe whether your
        station is digipeating. On the TM-D710 you can pull up a list of
        stations heard. Do so, and then go into the details for a station.
        Press the right arrow button to get to the last page of details, and
        then press the PATH button to see the first and last digipeater to
        handle the packet. You should be able to find your digipeater on that
        page for any station handled by your station. If you press the upper
        left button while on that page, you will see the digipeaters handling
        the last heard packet as they come in. You would be able to see your
        digipeater handling the packets from EMPRIA this way.

        --
        James
        VE6SRV
      • Teddy Banks
        Thanks James, I will try to sort it all out. ... -- Ham Radio Operators KCØWNY-KDØACN Ted & Kay Thanks James, I will try to sort it all out. On 4/24/2013
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 24, 2013
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          Thanks James, I will try to sort it all out.
          On 4/24/2013 10:11 PM, James Ewen wrote:
           

          Well, snooping finally paid off...

          2013-04-25T00:39:56
          EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
          KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
          2013-04-25T01:09:52
          EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
          KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
          2013-04-25T01:39:54
          EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
          KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
          2013-04-25T02:07:07
          W0KCN-4>APU25N,LAW*,EMPRIA*,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:=3922.25N/09446.81WoPlatte
          Co EOC rosmith1@... {UIV32}
          2013-04-25T02:09:52
          EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
          KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
          2013-04-25T02:39:53
          EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
          KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...
          2013-04-25T02:45:50
          K0KU>BEACON,AUBURN*,WIDE1*,LAW*,EMPRIA*,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:;146.76-KS*111111z3857.
          N/09515. WrT088 R30m Net Tu8pm
          2013-04-25T03:10:04
          EMPRIA>APN382,KC0WNY-1*,qAR,KC0U-1:!3823.15NS09610.59W#PHG7560/W2,
          KSn, Emporia WX0U jbelford@...

          You can hear the EMPRIA digipeater at least.

          Oh yeah, I forgot to give you yet another way to observe whether your
          station is digipeating. On the TM-D710 you can pull up a list of
          stations heard. Do so, and then go into the details for a station.
          Press the right arrow button to get to the last page of details, and
          then press the PATH button to see the first and last digipeater to
          handle the packet. You should be able to find your digipeater on that
          page for any station handled by your station. If you press the upper
          left button while on that page, you will see the digipeaters handling
          the last heard packet as they come in. You would be able to see your
          digipeater handling the packets from EMPRIA this way.

          --
          James
          VE6SRV


          -- 
          Ham Radio Operators  KCØWNY-KDØACN  Ted & Kay
          
          
        • Ronny Julian
          Should this work for any station or Digi? I put in K4RJJ-7 and see no traffic.
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 24, 2013
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            Should this work for any station or Digi? I put in K4RJJ-7 and see no
            traffic.


            On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:21 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Teddy Banks <tbanks204@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > OK, the reasion for all the questions is, I am trying to learn how to
            > find
            > > out if my home Station KC0WNY-1, (changed the ID) is doing what I think
            > it
            > > should do, and that is, receive the packets sent from my mobile unit(s)
            > one
            > > being my wife's Car, She is a ham also, with an ID of KC0WNY-14, when I
            > > looked at the raw data today, from both stations, I can see the packets
            > > being picked up by a station ID of Walnut. The reasion I put up my
            > station
            > > is because there is not much APRS Traffic in my local area, and I
            > thought it
            > > would help for tracking purposes with my 2 mobile units. My antenna is
            > about
            > > 30 ft high, and is a diamond 2 mtr ground plane, I really enjoy this APRS
            > > Technology, but I am pretty thick headed, I guess that about covers it.
            >
            > Here's the tricky part about ham radio... you need to use ham radio to
            > monitor ham radio.
            >
            > KC0WNY-14 looks to be a Kenwood TM-D710. That radio can be used for
            > APRS, and it looks like it is. The wonderful thing about the TM-D710
            > over other APRS devices like the TinyTrak and OpenTracker lines when
            > used as TX only devices is that the TM-D710 has a transceiver, TNC,
            > and display all built into one integrated package.
            >
            > So, to figure out if your home station is acting as a digipeater, all
            > you need to do is to go out to your wife's car, and start up the
            > TM-D710. It should fire out a position packet as soon as the attached
            > GPS gets a position lock. The radio will transmit. If your home
            > station is configured properly, and responds to the path used by your
            > wife's car, you will see (on the display of the TM-D710) the words "MY
            > POSITION"which will pop up on the top of the display. You will also
            > see the S/RF meter indicate reception of a signal. The BUSY indicator
            > should also light up. If you have your volume up, and Voice Alert
            > disabled, you will hear a packet burst. If you have incoming packet
            > beeps enabled, you'll also hear a be-doop sound indicating reception
            > of a packet. You can also hit the P.MON button and watch the incoming
            > packets to see if you can see a packet being digipeated by your
            > station, but you need to be pretty quick to catch that flashing by,
            > especially with a GPS on the radio.
            >
            > The radio gives all kinds of indications that it is receiving signals,
            > all you have to do is pay attention to what it is telling you. You've
            > indicated that the closest digipeater to you is 40 to 50 miles away
            > (other than your station). I see MATFLD at 57 km (about 35 miles), so
            > if you are seeing full scale signals of your digipeats, you can be
            > pretty sure that you are seeing digipeats from your station.
            >
            > Another way you can figure out if your DR-135 and Tracker2 combination
            > are working as a digipeater is to sit next to those devices and
            > observe them. Turn up the volume on the DR-135, and watch the lights
            > on the Tracker2. You should be able to hear a packet being received,
            > and observe the RX light on the Tracker2. If the packet is asking for
            > a digipeat and the Tracker2 is configured to respond to that alias,
            > then the Tracker2 will light up it's TX light, and you should see the
            > DR-135 go into TX mode, and send the packet out again.
            >
            > If you have an HT or other radio available, you can tune to 144.390
            > and listen to the activity. You should hear packets from other
            > stations (your wife), and then immediately after, a second
            > transmission, which should correspond with the TX lights as indicated
            > in the paragraph above.
            >
            > So, there's all kinds of information available to let you know if your
            > station is working as desired.
            >
            > Now, if you want to observe the APRS activity via the internet, be
            > prepared to be sorely disappointed because as we have posted
            > continually over the years, the APRS-IS is designed to block ALL but
            > the FIRST copy of a packet that is received. You will NEVER be able to
            > tell exactly what is happening on the APRS RF network when observing
            > the APRS-IS stream via a site such as aprs.fi or findu.com. The
            > information you are interested in seeing is blocked from view.
            > Occasionally you might get a glimpse at some of the desired data, but
            > the APRS-IS is designed to block access to all but the first copy of a
            > packet heard.
            >
            > Packets from your area are being heard directly by KC0U-1, which means
            > that any subsequent digipeats would never get seen on the normal
            > APRS-IS feed.
            >
            > However (isn't there always a however?), KC0U-1 is running
            > APRSISCE/32, an application that sends an unfiltered stream back home
            > to it's master as well as feeding the normal filtered stream to the
            > APRS-IS. This unfiltered stream allows us a peek into the real APRS
            > network operations.
            >
            > Here's a look at what KC0U-1 has seen over the last 24 hours:
            >
            >
            > http://ldeffenb.dnsalias.net:3000/catchall?FormName=rfTRAFFIC&Action=Display&IGates=KC0U-1
            >
            > There's no legend, but if I recall properly, the numbers in the boxes
            > decode as follows:
            >
            > 3+10 means 3 packets originating from the station, and 10 packets
            > digipeated by the station.
            >
            > I've been snooping looking for packets digipeated by your station, but
            > the change in station callsign made my snooping void as I was looking
            > for packets digipeated by KC0WNY... now I'm watching for packets
            > digipeated by KC0WNY-1.
            >
            > --
            > James
            > VE6SRV
            >
            >
          • James Ewen
            ... It depends on what this is... Are you talking about requesting a page from Lynn s server like this:
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 25, 2013
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              On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Ronny Julian <k4rjjradio@...> wrote:

              > Should this work for any station or Digi? I put in K4RJJ-7 and see no
              > traffic.

              It depends on what "this" is...

              Are you talking about requesting a page from Lynn's server like this:

              http://ldeffenb.dnsalias.net:3000/catchall?FormName=rfTRAFFIC&Action=Display&IGates=K4RJJ-7

              You won't get any data for K4RJJ-7 because that appears to be a
              Kantronics TNC running as a stand alone digipeater.

              As per my description in the previous email:

              > KC0U-1 is running
              > APRSISCE/32, an application that sends an unfiltered stream back home
              > to it's master as well as feeding the normal filtered stream to the
              > APRS-IS. This unfiltered stream allows us a peek into the real APRS
              > network operations.

              Only stations running APRSISCE/32 will provide data to Lynn's server
              from which he can build these detailed reports. Stations not reporting
              information to Lynn will not be able to have reports generated.

              --
              James
              VE6SRV
            • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
              ... Not to mention, my RFTraffic form only has access to the non-filtered RF feeds from APRSISCE/32 IGates, not the APRS-IS feed in general. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 25, 2013
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                On 4/25/2013 9:10 AM, James Ewen wrote:
                > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Ronny Julian <k4rjjradio@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Should this work for any station or Digi? I put in K4RJJ-7 and see no
                >> traffic.
                > It depends on what "this" is...
                >
                > Are you talking about requesting a page from Lynn's server like this:
                >
                > http://ldeffenb.dnsalias.net:3000/catchall?FormName=rfTRAFFIC&Action=Display&IGates=K4RJJ-7
                >
                > You won't get any data for K4RJJ-7 because that appears to be a
                > Kantronics TNC running as a stand alone digipeater.
                >

                Not to mention, my RFTraffic form only has access to the non-filtered RF
                feeds from APRSISCE/32 IGates, not the APRS-IS feed in general.

                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
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