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Re: New OT3m owner

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  • kc2yu
    Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads: Transmit
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 29, 2012
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      Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads: Transmit Audio Level.

      But on page 16 there is an image of the main config window that includes a slider whose label reads: TX Audio Level.

      Which one are we referring to (assuming we're referring to one of those)?


      --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hayward <tom@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:54 AM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
      > > --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hayward <tom@> wrote:
      > > > > 2) Will I need to "tune" the unit's Transmit Audio Level?
      > > >
      > > > Yes... the proper way is with a service monitor, but you can fake it
      > > > by listening to the signal (with an HT, etc) while turning down the
      > > > gain. When the volume starts to decrease, turn it down a bit more and
      > > > leave it there.
      > >
      > > No service monitor, but plenty of other rigs to listen in.
      > >
      > > Just to be clear, the gain you refer to is the audio level, right?
      > >
      > > I hope my ears are trained enough to hear this properly (;-)
      >
      > I'm referring to the transmit audio gain. This is adjusted with a
      > slider in otwincfg.exe. You can tell otwincfg.exe to transmit with
      > both tones while adjusting the slider (page 21 of the Tracker2 manual). Please
      > don't do this on 144.39 ;-)
      >
      > If the slider is at the top of the range and audio is still low, you
      > may need to set the HI jumper (page 7 of the Tracker2 manual).
      >
      > Tom KD7LXL
      >
    • Tom Hayward
      ... They are pages 14 and 21 here: https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker2_manual.pdf and those are both the same parameter, just two different places to
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 29, 2012
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        On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program
        > Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads:
        > Transmit Audio Level.
        >
        > But on page 16 there is an image of the main config window that includes a
        > slider whose label reads: TX Audio Level.
        >
        > Which one are we referring to (assuming we're referring to one of those)?

        They are pages 14 and 21 here:
        https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker2_manual.pdf

        and those are both the same parameter, just two different places to
        change it. Sliding one will change the other.

        Tom KD7LXL
      • Tom Hayward
        ... I forget... is there a way to do this without writing to flash? How do you do it? I assume using a script to change the PATH variable would write to flash.
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 29, 2012
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          On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:59 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
          >
          > Also look at using alternate paths where your second path is blank.
          > This will also reduce the load you put on the network. One position
          > report would go out via WIDE2-1, and the next just direct.
          >
          > This keeps the digi showing up on the map of those local every 10
          > minutes, and those further away will hear from it every 20 minutes.

          I forget... is there a way to do this without writing to flash? How do
          you do it?

          I assume using a script to change the PATH variable would write to flash.

          Tom KD7LXL
        • kc2yu
          I see the problem -- you re looking at the ot2 and I m looking at the ot3 manual, here: http://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf both sliders do
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 29, 2012
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            I see the problem -- you're looking at the ot2 and I'm looking at the ot3 manual, here:

            http://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf

            both sliders do the same thing -- got it.

            Thanks again!

            --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hayward <tom@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program
            > > Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads:
            > > Transmit Audio Level.
            > >
            > > But on page 16 there is an image of the main config window that includes a
            > > slider whose label reads: TX Audio Level.
            > >
            > > Which one are we referring to (assuming we're referring to one of those)?
            >
            > They are pages 14 and 21 here:
            > https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker2_manual.pdf
            >
            > and those are both the same parameter, just two different places to
            > change it. Sliding one will change the other.
            >
            > Tom KD7LXL
            >
          • Tom Hayward
            ... Ah, excellent, I didn t know this existed. I thought the Tracker3 docs were wiki-only for now. Anyway, the features we re talking about are identical on
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 29, 2012
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              On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:31 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
              >
              > I see the problem -- you're looking at the ot2 and I'm looking at the ot3
              > manual, here:
              >
              > http://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf
              >
              > both sliders do the same thing -- got it.
              >
              > Thanks again!

              Ah, excellent, I didn't know this existed. I thought the Tracker3 docs
              were wiki-only for now. Anyway, the features we're talking about are
              identical on the Tracker2 and Tracker3.

              Tom KD7LXL
            • James Ewen
              ... Don t feel silly... there are people out there using WIDE4-4 because they would like the 4 closest digipeaters to act on their packet, or worse. When you
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 29, 2012
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                On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:

                >> As for your outgoing path, it is best to set that to 1 hop less than
                >> the local recommended max hops.
                >
                > Understood. I actually just read this in an APRS theory paper and was
                > impressed by it's obviousness -- that is, I was surprised that I didn't
                > intuitively understand this all on my own.

                Don't feel silly... there are people out there using WIDE4-4 because
                they would like the 4 closest digipeaters to act on their packet, or
                worse. When you plot out the local digipeater mesh, and put a pin in
                at a digipeater that can hear you direct, and then another colour pin
                at ALL the digipeaters that can hear that digi, you can get an idea of
                just how much area your packet can affect. Do that for each digipeater
                that can hear you direct. If you start from a digipeater, you're
                already at that first pin, so two hops is effectively 3 for the
                regular users.

                >> Also look at using alternate paths where your second path is blank.
                >> This will also reduce the load you put on the network. One position
                >> report would go out via WIDE2-1, and the next just direct.
                >>
                >> This keeps the digi showing up on the map of those local every 10
                >> minutes, and those further away will hear from it every 20 minutes.
                >
                > That's very cool. I didn't know it could do that. I saw the 2-profile
                > capability and didn't focus on it, assuming I had no use for it.

                It's not making use of profile switching... select alternate paths on
                your primary profile. All that it will do is use the path from the
                primary profile, and then use the path from the secondary profile on
                each alternate beacon. There's nothing to do with the other profile
                other than the program looks to see what path you have there.

                Again, just optimizing the operation of the digipeater.

                As a primary infrastructure element, it behooves the digipeater
                operator to understand the impacts of the operation of that station,
                and to do all he/she can to ensure that the digipeater creates as
                little impact on the RF network as possible, while still fulfilling
                the key role that it plays.

                --
                James
                VE6SRV
              • James Ewen
                ... Yup, look for the check box right next to the path labelled alternate paths. ... Yup, a less than desirable course of action. This option allows for 2
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 29, 2012
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                  On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Tom Hayward <tom@...> wrote:

                  >> Also look at using alternate paths where your second path is blank.
                  >> This will also reduce the load you put on the network. One position
                  >> report would go out via WIDE2-1, and the next just direct.
                  >>
                  >> This keeps the digi showing up on the map of those local every 10
                  >> minutes, and those further away will hear from it every 20 minutes.
                  >
                  > I forget... is there a way to do this without writing to flash? How do
                  > you do it?

                  Yup, look for the check box right next to the path labelled alternate paths.

                  > I assume using a script to change the PATH variable would write to flash.

                  Yup, a less than desirable course of action. This option allows for 2
                  paths to be used. Scott has an outstanding request for the ability to
                  specify the path for an outbound packet without having to write to
                  flash... That would open up a world of possibilities. I would like
                  more than 2 paths available, but 2 is better than 1.

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV
                • kc2yu
                  ... Great idea, thanks! What I ll do is make my digi beacon every 10 seconds with a WIDE7-7 path because I really, really, really want everyone in North
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 30, 2012
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                    --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

                    > Don't feel silly... there are people out there using WIDE4-4 because
                    > they would like the 4 closest digipeaters to act on their packet, or
                    > worse.

                    Great idea, thanks!

                    What I'll do is make my digi beacon every 10 seconds with a WIDE7-7 path because I really, really, really want everyone in North America to know I'm here -- and it's so much easier than having a QSO (;-).

                    (Please everyone stay calm, I'm just kidding.)


                    >When you plot out the local digipeater mesh, and put a pin in
                    > at a digipeater that can hear you direct, and then another colour pin
                    > at ALL the digipeaters that can hear that digi, you can get an idea of
                    > just how much area your packet can affect. Do that for each digipeater
                    > that can hear you direct. If you start from a digipeater, you're
                    > already at that first pin, so two hops is effectively 3 for the
                    > regular users.

                    That's yet another interesting way to look at it. I think what this describes is the number of stations hearing my digi starts growing geometrically one hop sooner than a mobile's station, resulting in each hop have a greater affect.

                    That is (for example, a WIDE3-3), a mobile might be heard by 1 digi (DIGI-A), and that digi by 2 other digis (DIGI-B and DIGI-C), which each are heard by 2 digis (DIGI-D, DIGI-E, DIGI-F, DIGI-G). This results in the mobile station being heard by (and digipeated by) 7 digis.

                    Whereas, the same 3 hops starting from a digi results in being heard by 2 digis initially (DIGI-A, DIGI-B), then 4 more digis (DIGI-C, DIGI-D, DIGI-E, DIGI-F), then 8 more digis (DIGI-G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N). That's 14 digis.

                    Is this correct?


                    > [Alternating paths is] not making use of profile switching... select alternate paths on
                    > your primary profile. All that it will do is use the path from the
                    > primary profile, and then use the path from the secondary profile on
                    > each alternate beacon. There's nothing to do with the other profile
                    > other than the program looks to see what path you have there.

                    I see -- it doesn't switch profiles, it just switches which profile's path is used. So the 2 profile paths can be WIDE2-2 and blank, or WIDE2-2 and WIDE4-4, for example.


                    > As a primary infrastructure element, it behooves the digipeater
                    > operator to understand the impacts of the operation of that station,
                    > and to do all he/she can to ensure that the digipeater creates as
                    > little impact on the RF network as possible, while still fulfilling
                    > the key role that it plays.

                    I do hope I will be helping the infrastructure, not hurting it.

                    Thanks very much for the help and education!

                    Joseph, kc2yu
                  • James Ewen
                    ... You got it except if you want to think of it as the same digis as your first example, move all the letters up one since the packet originated from DIGIA...
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 30, 2012
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                      On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:15 AM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:

                      > That's yet another interesting way to look at it. I think what this
                      > describes is the number of stations hearing my digi starts growing
                      > geometrically one hop sooner than a mobile's station, resulting in
                      > each hop have a greater affect.
                      >
                      > That is (for example, a WIDE3-3), a mobile might be heard by 1 digi
                      > (DIGI-A), and that digi by 2 other digis (DIGI-B and DIGI-C), which each
                      > are heard by 2 digis (DIGI-D, DIGI-E, DIGI-F, DIGI-G). This results in
                      > the mobile station being heard by (and digipeated by) 7 digis.
                      >
                      > Whereas, the same 3 hops starting from a digi results in being heard
                      > by 2 digis initially (DIGI-A, DIGI-B), then 4 more digis (DIGI-C, DIGI-D, DIGI-E,
                      > DIGI-F), then 8 more digis (DIGI-G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N). That's 14 digis.
                      >
                      > Is this correct?

                      You got it except if you want to think of it as the same digis as your
                      first example, move all the letters up one since the packet originated
                      from DIGIA...

                      And of course you're using a very sparse APRS network in your example.
                      In some areas you might hit more than 1 digi on the first hop, and the
                      second hop will be far more than just 2 digis, and then that third hop
                      will be far far more than eight.

                      I was looking at Dallas last week, and counted 23 digipeaters within
                      50 miles of downtown. Being on the pessimistic side, let's just say
                      that you get heard by only 8 of the closest digipeaters within the
                      city limits on the first hop, and then only the rest of the 23
                      digipeaters on the second hop. How many more digipeaters do we add for
                      the third hop?

                      Now of course in the real world all of those digipeaters aren't going
                      to fire off in Dallas. There are far too many of them in too confined
                      an area. They are probably causing so much interference with each
                      other that the locals are fighting to be heard over the din.


                      > I see -- it doesn't switch profiles, it just switches which profile's path
                      > is used. So the 2 profile paths can be WIDE2-2 and blank, or
                      > WIDE2-2 and WIDE4-4, for example.

                      That's correct, and if everyone around is using a 2 hop hop limit,
                      WIDE4-4 shouldn't go anywhere.

                      > I do hope I will be helping the infrastructure, not hurting it.

                      That's a great attitude, and you're on your way towards that goal. If
                      everyone that wanted to put up a digipeater did the research and
                      learnt about what a digipeater does and how it affects the local
                      network before deciding whether they *should* put one up, that would
                      be great. A poorly implemented digipeater can harm the network more
                      than help.

                      > Thanks very much for the help and education!

                      It's worth my time and effort to educate now rather than try to fight
                      with you later to fix it. Hopefully you'll continue to read and learn,
                      experiment and observe, and help others as well. There are hundreds of
                      digipeaters improperly configured or sited out there that need to be
                      fixed because people don't bother to educate themselves before
                      installing them.

                      --
                      James
                      VE6SRV
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