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Re: New OT3m owner

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  • kc2yu
    Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads: Transmit
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 29 12:07 PM
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      Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads: Transmit Audio Level.

      But on page 16 there is an image of the main config window that includes a slider whose label reads: TX Audio Level.

      Which one are we referring to (assuming we're referring to one of those)?


      --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hayward <tom@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:54 AM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
      > > --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hayward <tom@> wrote:
      > > > > 2) Will I need to "tune" the unit's Transmit Audio Level?
      > > >
      > > > Yes... the proper way is with a service monitor, but you can fake it
      > > > by listening to the signal (with an HT, etc) while turning down the
      > > > gain. When the volume starts to decrease, turn it down a bit more and
      > > > leave it there.
      > >
      > > No service monitor, but plenty of other rigs to listen in.
      > >
      > > Just to be clear, the gain you refer to is the audio level, right?
      > >
      > > I hope my ears are trained enough to hear this properly (;-)
      >
      > I'm referring to the transmit audio gain. This is adjusted with a
      > slider in otwincfg.exe. You can tell otwincfg.exe to transmit with
      > both tones while adjusting the slider (page 21 of the Tracker2 manual). Please
      > don't do this on 144.39 ;-)
      >
      > If the slider is at the top of the range and audio is still low, you
      > may need to set the HI jumper (page 7 of the Tracker2 manual).
      >
      > Tom KD7LXL
      >
    • kc2yu
      ... Got it -- will do. ... Understood. I actually just read this in an APRS theory paper and was impressed by it s obviousness -- that is, I was surprised
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 29 12:13 PM
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        --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
        >
        > The best way to observe what is happening on the RF channel is to
        > listen to the RF channel. Grab APRSISCE/32 and set it up to show you
        > the paths while listening to 144.390.
        >
        > You can not judge what is happening on RF using the APRS-IS stream as
        > it is heavily filtered. You may miss a lot of the traffic on RF. Only
        > packets that successfully make it to an i-gate are visible on the
        > APRS-IS stream.

        Got it -- will do.

        >
        > As for your outgoing path, it is best to set that to 1 hop less than
        > the local recommended max hops. A digipeater due to it's nature
        > already has an advantage over other stations. Using 2 hops from a
        > digipeater is equivalent to 3 hops from a mobile or base station, that
        > would be using that digipeater.

        Understood. I actually just read this in an APRS theory paper and was impressed by it's obviousness -- that is, I was surprised that I didn't intuitively understand this all on my own.

        >
        > Also look at using alternate paths where your second path is blank.
        > This will also reduce the load you put on the network. One position
        > report would go out via WIDE2-1, and the next just direct.
        >
        > This keeps the digi showing up on the map of those local every 10
        > minutes, and those further away will hear from it every 20 minutes.


        That's very cool. I didn't know it could do that. I saw the 2-profile capability and didn't focus on it, assuming I had no use for it.

        Thank you!

        >
        >
        > On 8/29/12, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Just ordered an OT3m for use with an FT-8800 as a digi.
        > >
        > > Hard to know for sure, but it sure looks my area is under served by digis --
        > > it's pretty mountainous and not may APRS stations visible on aprs.fi -- see:
        > >
        > >
        > > http://aprs.fi/#!addr=12763
        > >
        > > I wonder if someone could give me a head start on planning for the
        > > programming? I've read the manual.
        > >
        > > 1) Under DIGIPEATER SETTINGS, what alias(es) should I enable?
        > >
        > > WIDE
        > > WIDE1-1
        > > WIDE2-2
        > >
        > > How literal is the string (i.e., does the ot3m see a difference between all
        > > three of the above examples)?
        > >
        > > 2) Will I need to "tune" the unit's Transmit Audio Level?
        > >
        > > 3) Should the unit's path be WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2, or just WIDE2-2 (and how
        > > would I determine that)?
        > >
        > > The last thing I want to do add to any congestion on the channel.
        > >
        > > My hunch is that plenty of stations pass through the area but are never
        > > picked up by "the network" because of a lack of digis/igates. I'd love to
        > > have evidence one way or the other is that hypothesis is true. Any change
        > > the unit keeps a log (or one can be gleaned form the great aprs servers out
        > > there -- findu, aprs.fi, db0anf.de, aprsworld.net, etc.)?
        > >
        > > Anything else I should keep in mind when setting up a digi?
        > >
        > > Thank you,
        > >
        > > Joseph, kc2yu
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > Sent from my mobile device
        >
        > James
        > VE6SRV
        >
      • Tom Hayward
        ... They are pages 14 and 21 here: https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker2_manual.pdf and those are both the same parameter, just two different places to
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 29 2:03 PM
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          On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program
          > Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads:
          > Transmit Audio Level.
          >
          > But on page 16 there is an image of the main config window that includes a
          > slider whose label reads: TX Audio Level.
          >
          > Which one are we referring to (assuming we're referring to one of those)?

          They are pages 14 and 21 here:
          https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker2_manual.pdf

          and those are both the same parameter, just two different places to
          change it. Sliding one will change the other.

          Tom KD7LXL
        • Tom Hayward
          ... I forget... is there a way to do this without writing to flash? How do you do it? I assume using a script to change the PATH variable would write to flash.
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 29 2:04 PM
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            On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:59 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
            >
            > Also look at using alternate paths where your second path is blank.
            > This will also reduce the load you put on the network. One position
            > report would go out via WIDE2-1, and the next just direct.
            >
            > This keeps the digi showing up on the map of those local every 10
            > minutes, and those further away will hear from it every 20 minutes.

            I forget... is there a way to do this without writing to flash? How do
            you do it?

            I assume using a script to change the PATH variable would write to flash.

            Tom KD7LXL
          • kc2yu
            I see the problem -- you re looking at the ot2 and I m looking at the ot3 manual, here: http://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf both sliders do
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 29 2:31 PM
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              I see the problem -- you're looking at the ot2 and I'm looking at the ot3 manual, here:

              http://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf

              both sliders do the same thing -- got it.

              Thanks again!

              --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hayward <tom@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Sorry for the confusion, but on page 23 is an image of the config program
              > > Tuning and Diagnostics window that includes a slider whose label reads:
              > > Transmit Audio Level.
              > >
              > > But on page 16 there is an image of the main config window that includes a
              > > slider whose label reads: TX Audio Level.
              > >
              > > Which one are we referring to (assuming we're referring to one of those)?
              >
              > They are pages 14 and 21 here:
              > https://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker2_manual.pdf
              >
              > and those are both the same parameter, just two different places to
              > change it. Sliding one will change the other.
              >
              > Tom KD7LXL
              >
            • Tom Hayward
              ... Ah, excellent, I didn t know this existed. I thought the Tracker3 docs were wiki-only for now. Anyway, the features we re talking about are identical on
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 29 2:41 PM
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                On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:31 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:
                >
                > I see the problem -- you're looking at the ot2 and I'm looking at the ot3
                > manual, here:
                >
                > http://www.argentdata.com/support/tracker3_manual.pdf
                >
                > both sliders do the same thing -- got it.
                >
                > Thanks again!

                Ah, excellent, I didn't know this existed. I thought the Tracker3 docs
                were wiki-only for now. Anyway, the features we're talking about are
                identical on the Tracker2 and Tracker3.

                Tom KD7LXL
              • James Ewen
                ... Don t feel silly... there are people out there using WIDE4-4 because they would like the 4 closest digipeaters to act on their packet, or worse. When you
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 29 7:20 PM
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                  On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:

                  >> As for your outgoing path, it is best to set that to 1 hop less than
                  >> the local recommended max hops.
                  >
                  > Understood. I actually just read this in an APRS theory paper and was
                  > impressed by it's obviousness -- that is, I was surprised that I didn't
                  > intuitively understand this all on my own.

                  Don't feel silly... there are people out there using WIDE4-4 because
                  they would like the 4 closest digipeaters to act on their packet, or
                  worse. When you plot out the local digipeater mesh, and put a pin in
                  at a digipeater that can hear you direct, and then another colour pin
                  at ALL the digipeaters that can hear that digi, you can get an idea of
                  just how much area your packet can affect. Do that for each digipeater
                  that can hear you direct. If you start from a digipeater, you're
                  already at that first pin, so two hops is effectively 3 for the
                  regular users.

                  >> Also look at using alternate paths where your second path is blank.
                  >> This will also reduce the load you put on the network. One position
                  >> report would go out via WIDE2-1, and the next just direct.
                  >>
                  >> This keeps the digi showing up on the map of those local every 10
                  >> minutes, and those further away will hear from it every 20 minutes.
                  >
                  > That's very cool. I didn't know it could do that. I saw the 2-profile
                  > capability and didn't focus on it, assuming I had no use for it.

                  It's not making use of profile switching... select alternate paths on
                  your primary profile. All that it will do is use the path from the
                  primary profile, and then use the path from the secondary profile on
                  each alternate beacon. There's nothing to do with the other profile
                  other than the program looks to see what path you have there.

                  Again, just optimizing the operation of the digipeater.

                  As a primary infrastructure element, it behooves the digipeater
                  operator to understand the impacts of the operation of that station,
                  and to do all he/she can to ensure that the digipeater creates as
                  little impact on the RF network as possible, while still fulfilling
                  the key role that it plays.

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV
                • James Ewen
                  ... Yup, look for the check box right next to the path labelled alternate paths. ... Yup, a less than desirable course of action. This option allows for 2
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 29 7:24 PM
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                    On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Tom Hayward <tom@...> wrote:

                    >> Also look at using alternate paths where your second path is blank.
                    >> This will also reduce the load you put on the network. One position
                    >> report would go out via WIDE2-1, and the next just direct.
                    >>
                    >> This keeps the digi showing up on the map of those local every 10
                    >> minutes, and those further away will hear from it every 20 minutes.
                    >
                    > I forget... is there a way to do this without writing to flash? How do
                    > you do it?

                    Yup, look for the check box right next to the path labelled alternate paths.

                    > I assume using a script to change the PATH variable would write to flash.

                    Yup, a less than desirable course of action. This option allows for 2
                    paths to be used. Scott has an outstanding request for the ability to
                    specify the path for an outbound packet without having to write to
                    flash... That would open up a world of possibilities. I would like
                    more than 2 paths available, but 2 is better than 1.

                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV
                  • kc2yu
                    ... Great idea, thanks! What I ll do is make my digi beacon every 10 seconds with a WIDE7-7 path because I really, really, really want everyone in North
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 30 3:15 AM
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                      --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

                      > Don't feel silly... there are people out there using WIDE4-4 because
                      > they would like the 4 closest digipeaters to act on their packet, or
                      > worse.

                      Great idea, thanks!

                      What I'll do is make my digi beacon every 10 seconds with a WIDE7-7 path because I really, really, really want everyone in North America to know I'm here -- and it's so much easier than having a QSO (;-).

                      (Please everyone stay calm, I'm just kidding.)


                      >When you plot out the local digipeater mesh, and put a pin in
                      > at a digipeater that can hear you direct, and then another colour pin
                      > at ALL the digipeaters that can hear that digi, you can get an idea of
                      > just how much area your packet can affect. Do that for each digipeater
                      > that can hear you direct. If you start from a digipeater, you're
                      > already at that first pin, so two hops is effectively 3 for the
                      > regular users.

                      That's yet another interesting way to look at it. I think what this describes is the number of stations hearing my digi starts growing geometrically one hop sooner than a mobile's station, resulting in each hop have a greater affect.

                      That is (for example, a WIDE3-3), a mobile might be heard by 1 digi (DIGI-A), and that digi by 2 other digis (DIGI-B and DIGI-C), which each are heard by 2 digis (DIGI-D, DIGI-E, DIGI-F, DIGI-G). This results in the mobile station being heard by (and digipeated by) 7 digis.

                      Whereas, the same 3 hops starting from a digi results in being heard by 2 digis initially (DIGI-A, DIGI-B), then 4 more digis (DIGI-C, DIGI-D, DIGI-E, DIGI-F), then 8 more digis (DIGI-G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N). That's 14 digis.

                      Is this correct?


                      > [Alternating paths is] not making use of profile switching... select alternate paths on
                      > your primary profile. All that it will do is use the path from the
                      > primary profile, and then use the path from the secondary profile on
                      > each alternate beacon. There's nothing to do with the other profile
                      > other than the program looks to see what path you have there.

                      I see -- it doesn't switch profiles, it just switches which profile's path is used. So the 2 profile paths can be WIDE2-2 and blank, or WIDE2-2 and WIDE4-4, for example.


                      > As a primary infrastructure element, it behooves the digipeater
                      > operator to understand the impacts of the operation of that station,
                      > and to do all he/she can to ensure that the digipeater creates as
                      > little impact on the RF network as possible, while still fulfilling
                      > the key role that it plays.

                      I do hope I will be helping the infrastructure, not hurting it.

                      Thanks very much for the help and education!

                      Joseph, kc2yu
                    • James Ewen
                      ... You got it except if you want to think of it as the same digis as your first example, move all the letters up one since the packet originated from DIGIA...
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 30 6:33 AM
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                        On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:15 AM, kc2yu <jrskoler@...> wrote:

                        > That's yet another interesting way to look at it. I think what this
                        > describes is the number of stations hearing my digi starts growing
                        > geometrically one hop sooner than a mobile's station, resulting in
                        > each hop have a greater affect.
                        >
                        > That is (for example, a WIDE3-3), a mobile might be heard by 1 digi
                        > (DIGI-A), and that digi by 2 other digis (DIGI-B and DIGI-C), which each
                        > are heard by 2 digis (DIGI-D, DIGI-E, DIGI-F, DIGI-G). This results in
                        > the mobile station being heard by (and digipeated by) 7 digis.
                        >
                        > Whereas, the same 3 hops starting from a digi results in being heard
                        > by 2 digis initially (DIGI-A, DIGI-B), then 4 more digis (DIGI-C, DIGI-D, DIGI-E,
                        > DIGI-F), then 8 more digis (DIGI-G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N). That's 14 digis.
                        >
                        > Is this correct?

                        You got it except if you want to think of it as the same digis as your
                        first example, move all the letters up one since the packet originated
                        from DIGIA...

                        And of course you're using a very sparse APRS network in your example.
                        In some areas you might hit more than 1 digi on the first hop, and the
                        second hop will be far more than just 2 digis, and then that third hop
                        will be far far more than eight.

                        I was looking at Dallas last week, and counted 23 digipeaters within
                        50 miles of downtown. Being on the pessimistic side, let's just say
                        that you get heard by only 8 of the closest digipeaters within the
                        city limits on the first hop, and then only the rest of the 23
                        digipeaters on the second hop. How many more digipeaters do we add for
                        the third hop?

                        Now of course in the real world all of those digipeaters aren't going
                        to fire off in Dallas. There are far too many of them in too confined
                        an area. They are probably causing so much interference with each
                        other that the locals are fighting to be heard over the din.


                        > I see -- it doesn't switch profiles, it just switches which profile's path
                        > is used. So the 2 profile paths can be WIDE2-2 and blank, or
                        > WIDE2-2 and WIDE4-4, for example.

                        That's correct, and if everyone around is using a 2 hop hop limit,
                        WIDE4-4 shouldn't go anywhere.

                        > I do hope I will be helping the infrastructure, not hurting it.

                        That's a great attitude, and you're on your way towards that goal. If
                        everyone that wanted to put up a digipeater did the research and
                        learnt about what a digipeater does and how it affects the local
                        network before deciding whether they *should* put one up, that would
                        be great. A poorly implemented digipeater can harm the network more
                        than help.

                        > Thanks very much for the help and education!

                        It's worth my time and effort to educate now rather than try to fight
                        with you later to fix it. Hopefully you'll continue to read and learn,
                        experiment and observe, and help others as well. There are hundreds of
                        digipeaters improperly configured or sited out there that need to be
                        fixed because people don't bother to educate themselves before
                        installing them.

                        --
                        James
                        VE6SRV
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