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Serial Levels on OT3m

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  • kb1wxd_andrew
    Hey I got an idea to make a blue tooth serial pipe on the cheap and. Was looking for the voltage levels that the OT3m puts out on the serial ports and couldn t
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 26 1:49 PM
      Hey I got an idea to make a blue tooth serial pipe on the cheap and. Was looking for the voltage levels that the OT3m puts out on the serial ports and couldn't find any info anyone care to enlighten me on what those levels are? I'm hoping their 5v tolerant so I don't have to use a level shifter
    • caimaver
      I believe the serial port on the OTm3 is 5V levels, but remember it s RS-232. Most Bluetooth modules I ve seen need TTL serial, so double-check the one you
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 27 1:15 AM
        I believe the serial port on the OTm3 is 5V levels, but remember it's RS-232. Most Bluetooth modules I've seen need TTL serial, so double-check the one you plan to use. The schematic for the OTm2 is here: href="https://www.argentdata.com/support/opentracker-ot2m-schematic.png ; I couldn't find a schematic for the OTm3, but I doubt the serial portion of the circuit has changed much (or maybe it has if the OTm3 using a new uC, I'm just guessing).

        I don't own an OTm2 or OTm3, so I'd be curious if any owners have looked at the PCB to see if there's any convenient place to solder a couple wires to the Tx and Rx lines between the uC and the Max232 chip?

        - Cai /W6CAI

        --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, "kb1wxd_andrew" <mechcondrid@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey I got an idea to make a blue tooth serial pipe on the cheap and. Was looking for the voltage levels that the OT3m puts out on the serial ports and couldn't find any info anyone care to enlighten me on what those levels are? I'm hoping their 5v tolerant so I don't have to use a level shifter
        >
      • Dale Seaburg
        ... David, not being familiar with the latest OT (OT3), I will assume it acts as most tnc s do when placed in KISS mode. You didn t state the KISS mode on
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 27 9:52 AM
          > Everything was working fine.
          >
          > Then I read a post on this list which suggested that it
          > was a good idea for a fixed station, set to digipeat, to
          > use an alias and to put the callsign in the comments for
          > legal reasons.
          >
          > I did only that. Nothing else. No big change. No change
          > in direction.
          >
          > (I did misuse "SSID" for "Alias" in my question.)
          >
          > I made the change both in Minicom and Xastir.
          >
          > Nothing else was changed.
          >
          > Unless there is usually a huge delay in it propagating to aprs.fi it
          > was a concern to me that the "NEVILS" alias did not show up in aprs.fi
          > so I asked on this list if I should not have made the change in both
          > Minicom and Xastir. (I may have mistakenly typed findu rather than
          > aprs.fi)
          >
          > I still only need that one question answered, please?
          >
          > Should one set an Alias in place of a Callsign in both Minicom
          > and Xastir or only one of the two?
          >
          > Nothing else has been changed.
          >
          > And yes, I do hope to raise the vertical from 20' above grade
          > (which is located on property which is just over 200' altitude
          > above sea level) to a little higher (perhaps 30 or 35') - as
          > time and resources permit. The antenna is also above a 40'
          > steel shipping container and is very much in the clear - both
          > of which should enhance performance.
          >
          > The antenna is a Comet GP-15, an excellent 6-2-440 vertical.
          >
          > And that's all there is ...
          >
          > --
          >
          >

          David, not being familiar with the latest OT (OT3), I will assume it
          acts as most tnc's do when placed in KISS mode. You didn't state the
          KISS mode on this list, but rather on the Xastir list. That can be very
          confusing not only to you, but also to others gracious enough to offer
          help when you ask questions on two different list.

          Scot can correct me in the case of the OT3, but basically, when a tnc is
          in KISS mode (you used a terminal program - minicom - to put the OT3
          into KISS mode using USBKISS ON as mention on the Xastir list), all
          other normal commands (a few low-level commands excepted) are not
          applicable, like MyCall, etc. Because you are using Xastir as your "tnc
          controller" in KISS mode all alias, callsigns, etc are controlled by
          Xastir, NOT the KISS tnc. Therefore, once you use minicom to place the
          OT3 into KISS mode, Xastir does everything else you are asking above
          concerning id'ing the packets sent by Xastir.

          HTH

          73 - Dale. KG5LT
        • Tom Hayward
          ... I m pretty sure the T3 outputs 3.3 or 5V (probably 5), and feeds that into a MAX232. If you want 5V levels, you could just bypass the MAX232. Probably best
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 27 10:00 AM
            On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 2:49 PM, kb1wxd_andrew <mechcondrid@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey I got an idea to make a blue tooth serial pipe on the cheap and. Was
            > looking for the voltage levels that the OT3m puts out on the serial ports
            > and couldn't find any info anyone care to enlighten me on what those levels
            > are? I'm hoping their 5v tolerant so I don't have to use a level shifter

            I'm pretty sure the T3 outputs 3.3 or 5V (probably 5), and feeds that
            into a MAX232. If you want 5V levels, you could just bypass the
            MAX232.

            Probably best to wait for Scott to return from vacation and post the schematic.

            Tom KD7LXL
          • qrv@kd4e.com
            Dale, Thanks for your reply. Since my question included Xastir I decided to move over there to seek clarity. Yes, Minicom was used to set the OT3m to USBKISS
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 27 10:07 AM
              Dale,

              Thanks for your reply.

              Since my question included Xastir I decided to move over there
              to seek clarity.

              Yes, Minicom was used to set the OT3m to "USBKISS on", and also
              "MYCALL KD4E-1"

              Does setting "MYCALL KD4E-1" via Minicom on the OT3m create a
              problem or are you saying that Xastir's settings over-write everything
              except low-level and "USBKISS on" settings made to the OT3m via Minicom?

              Thanks again!

              David


              > Scot can correct me in the case of the OT3, but basically, when a tnc
              > is in KISS mode (you used a terminal program - minicom - to put the
              > OT3 into KISS mode using USBKISS ON as mention on the Xastir list),
              > all other normal commands (a few low-level commands excepted) are
              > not applicable, like MyCall, etc. Because you are using Xastir as
              > your "tnc controller" in KISS mode all alias, callsigns, etc are
              > controlled by Xastir, NOT the KISS tnc. Therefore, once you use
              > minicom to place the OT3 into KISS mode, Xastir does everything else
              > you are asking above concerning id'ing the packets sent by Xastir.
              >
              > HTH
              >
              > 73 - Dale. KG5LT


              --

              Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com
              David Colburn nevils-station.com
              I don't google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com
              Network: groups.yahoo.com/group/qrv
              Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22
            • Jason KG4WSV
              ... These are separate things. Commands like MYCALL XYZ, etc set up the behavior of the T3. It can digi, beacon, whatever. A KISS packet (this is a KISS AX.25
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 27 10:15 AM
                On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:07 PM, qrv@... <qrv@...> wrote:
                >
                > Does setting "MYCALL KD4E-1" via Minicom on the OT3m create a
                > problem or are you saying that Xastir's settings over-write everything
                > except low-level and "USBKISS on" settings made to the OT3m via Minicom?

                These are separate things.

                Commands like MYCALL XYZ, etc set up the behavior of the T3. It can
                digi, beacon, whatever.

                A KISS packet (this is a KISS AX.25 thing, not an OT think or an
                xastir thing) contains _all_ the packet, including the source call,
                PATH, etc etc. All the T3 does with a KISS packet is transmit it.

                So, I can have the T3 set up as a tracker for station ABC, and use
                xastir station XYX on a KISS interface, and the T3 can do both at the
                same time.

                -Jason
                kg4wsv
              • qrv@kd4e.com
                Jason, Perfect clarity! Thanks! David ... -- Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com David Colburn nevils-station.com I don t google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com Network:
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 27 10:33 AM
                  Jason,

                  Perfect clarity!

                  Thanks!

                  David

                  >> Does setting "MYCALL KD4E-1" via Minicom on the OT3m create a
                  >> problem or are you saying that Xastir's settings over-write
                  >> everything except low-level and "USBKISS on" settings made to the
                  >> OT3m via Minicom?
                  >
                  > These are separate things.
                  >
                  > Commands like MYCALL XYZ, etc set up the behavior of the T3. It can
                  > digi, beacon, whatever.
                  >
                  > A KISS packet (this is a KISS AX.25 thing, not an OT think or an
                  > xastir thing) contains _all_ the packet, including the source call,
                  > PATH, etc etc. All the T3 does with a KISS packet is transmit it.
                  >
                  > So, I can have the T3 set up as a tracker for station ABC, and use
                  > xastir station XYX on a KISS interface, and the T3 can do both at
                  > the same time.
                  >
                  > -Jason kg4wsv



                  --

                  Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com
                  David Colburn nevils-station.com
                  I don't google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com
                  Network: groups.yahoo.com/group/qrv
                  Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22
                • Fred Hillhouse
                  The OT3 is a bit different than some TNCs running KISS. It can operate using its own parameters while in KISS mode which allows a PC/application to also have
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 27 10:39 AM
                    The OT3 is a bit different than some TNCs running KISS. It can operate using its own parameters while in KISS mode which allows a PC/application to also have control.
                     
                    For instance, suppose you have a typical tracker configuration; OT3, GPS and radio. With nothing else, it will send position beacons based on the configuration. Now, take the same tracker and connect a PC. The PC connected via KISS can use the same OT3 for its own purposes without affecting the operation of the tracker itself.
                     
                    The "normal" TNC, once placed in KISS, is only a conduit for data. It sends/receives data "through" the TNC. There are no decisions in the TNC except maybe for waiting for a clear channel. An example of this type of TNC is the KPC.
                     
                    Personally, I use my older OT2 (haven't replaced it with my new OT3 yet) as I depicted in the example above. My OT2 is configured to send position beacons if I connect a GPS and the GPS is providing valid data. Currently, I don't connect the GPS much. I usually have a mobile phone, sans SIM card, running an APRS application which sends/receives data through the OT2. The keyword is "through'. The mobile phone has a GPS, so I don't really need another GPS connected. When the OT2 is generating packets of its own, it is known as N7FMH-9. The attached application is known as N7FMH-12. The SSID for each should be different from each other. I do occasionally have a GPS connected to the OT2 and when I do, if the SSID for each is not different, my track would look like is is bouncing around if the phone is connected as well.
                     
                     
                    Best regards,
                    Fred, N7FMH
                     


                    From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of qrv@...
                    Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 13:07
                    To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [tracker2] Re: Serial Levels on OT3m

                     

                    Dale,

                    Thanks for your reply.

                    Since my question included Xastir I decided to move over there
                    to seek clarity.

                    Yes, Minicom was used to set the OT3m to "USBKISS on", and also
                    "MYCALL KD4E-1"

                    Does setting "MYCALL KD4E-1" via Minicom on the OT3m create a
                    problem or are you saying that Xastir's settings over-write everything
                    except low-level and "USBKISS on" settings made to the OT3m via Minicom?

                    Thanks again!

                    David

                    > Scot can correct me in the case of the OT3, but basically, when a tnc
                    > is in KISS mode (you used a terminal program - minicom - to put the
                    > OT3 into KISS mode using USBKISS ON as mention on the Xastir list),
                    > all other normal commands (a few low-level commands excepted) are
                    > not applicable, like MyCall, etc. Because you are using Xastir as
                    > your "tnc controller" in KISS mode all alias, callsigns, etc are
                    > controlled by Xastir, NOT the KISS tnc. Therefore, once you use
                    > minicom to place the OT3 into KISS mode, Xastir does everything else
                    > you are asking above concerning id'ing the packets sent by Xastir.
                    >
                    > HTH
                    >
                    > 73 - Dale. KG5LT

                    --

                    Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com
                    David Colburn nevils-station.com
                    I don't google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com
                    Network: groups.yahoo.com/group/qrv
                    Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

                  • qrv@kd4e.com
                    SUBJECT CORRECTED TO OT3m from OT2m .... ... -- Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com David Colburn nevils-station.com I don t google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com Network:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 27 10:42 AM
                      SUBJECT CORRECTED TO OT3m from OT2m ....

                      > Jason,
                      >
                      > Perfect clarity!
                      >
                      > Thanks!
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      >>> Does setting "MYCALL KD4E-1" via Minicom on the OT3m create a
                      >>> problem or are you saying that Xastir's settings over-write
                      >>> everything except low-level and "USBKISS on" settings made to the
                      >>> OT3m via Minicom?
                      >>
                      >> These are separate things.
                      >>
                      >> Commands like MYCALL XYZ, etc set up the behavior of the T3. It can
                      >> digi, beacon, whatever.
                      >>
                      >> A KISS packet (this is a KISS AX.25 thing, not an OT think or an
                      >> xastir thing) contains _all_ the packet, including the source call,
                      >> PATH, etc etc. All the T3 does with a KISS packet is transmit it.
                      >>
                      >> So, I can have the T3 set up as a tracker for station ABC, and use
                      >> xastir station XYX on a KISS interface, and the T3 can do both at
                      >> the same time.
                      >>
                      >> -Jason kg4wsv


                      --

                      Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com
                      David Colburn nevils-station.com
                      I don't google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com
                      Network: groups.yahoo.com/group/qrv
                      Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22
                    • kb1wxd_andrew
                      ok if your reasonably sure on the voltage then i m good the bt module (RN-42) is actually on a near same footprint daughter board that converts everything from
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 28 1:04 PM
                        ok if your reasonably sure on the voltage then i'm good
                        the bt module (RN-42) is actually on a near same footprint daughter board that converts everything from a range of 3v to 6v in terms of both power and signal (so it's good up to 5.5v peak) not to mention its pretty damn cheap ($40) and sold and made in the US

                        --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, "caimaver" <caimaver@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I believe the serial port on the OTm3 is 5V levels, but remember it's RS-232. Most Bluetooth modules I've seen need TTL serial, so double-check the one you plan to use. The schematic for the OTm2 is here: href="https://www.argentdata.com/support/opentracker-ot2m-schematic.png ; I couldn't find a schematic for the OTm3, but I doubt the serial portion of the circuit has changed much (or maybe it has if the OTm3 using a new uC, I'm just guessing).
                        >
                        > I don't own an OTm2 or OTm3, so I'd be curious if any owners have looked at the PCB to see if there's any convenient place to solder a couple wires to the Tx and Rx lines between the uC and the Max232 chip?
                        >
                        > - Cai /W6CAI
                        >
                        > --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, "kb1wxd_andrew" <mechcondrid@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hey I got an idea to make a blue tooth serial pipe on the cheap and. Was looking for the voltage levels that the OT3m puts out on the serial ports and couldn't find any info anyone care to enlighten me on what those levels are? I'm hoping their 5v tolerant so I don't have to use a level shifter
                        > >
                        >
                      • caimaver
                        I m not sure what daughterboard you re using (maybe one of Sparkfun s BlueSmirfs?), but you will need to do RS-232 to TTL conversion for the Tracker to talk to
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 28 5:58 PM
                          I'm not sure what daughterboard you're using (maybe one of Sparkfun's BlueSmirfs?), but you will need to do RS-232 to TTL conversion for the Tracker to talk to the RN-42 unless you tap in to the TTL lines on the Tracker 3 PCB. Should work fine once you do that though.

                          - Cai /W6CAI

                          --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, "kb1wxd_andrew" <mechcondrid@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > ok if your reasonably sure on the voltage then i'm good
                          > the bt module (RN-42) is actually on a near same footprint daughter board that converts everything from a range of 3v to 6v in terms of both power and signal (so it's good up to 5.5v peak) not to mention its pretty damn cheap ($40) and sold and made in the US
                        • Andrew Wawrzynowicz
                          Ya its a sparkfun bluesmirf silver i thought it could take up to 5v signal levels
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 30 8:22 AM

                            Ya its a sparkfun bluesmirf silver i thought it could take up to 5v signal levels

                          • caimaver
                            The BlueSmirf can take 5V levels (and so can the Tracker 3 at the DE-9 serial port), so you won t risk frying the ICs on either end of that connection, but
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 30 11:30 PM
                              The BlueSmirf can take 5V levels (and so can the Tracker 3 at the DE-9 serial port), so you won't risk frying the ICs on either end of that connection, but they won't talk to each other on their own.

                              The BlueSmirf uses TTL serial where (in this case) a +5V signal is a logic "1", but the Tracker 3, at the DE-9 port, uses RS-232 where 0V is a logic "1". You can see that these two devices won't be able to communicate directly. The Sparkfun product page for the BlueSmirf (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10269) even addresses this and has a link to their own RS-232 to TTL converter product.

                              You *might* be able to get around having to use a converter circuit by finding a spot on the PCB of the Tracker 3 board where you can solder in a wire to access the serial lines at the TTL level, but I don't yet own a Tracker 3, so I'm not sure about that.

                              If you don't mind buying directly from China and having no product support, you could get an integrated RS-232 to Bluetooth adapter like this: www.dealextreme.com/p/db9-rs232-wireless-bluetooth-serial-module-104301

                              Anyway, the BlueSmirf modules are great (I've used them in a few projects myself), and they'll work fine to add Bluetooth to a Tracker 3, you'll just need to account for the different serial protocols with an additional circuit or perhaps some clever soldering. Good luck!

                              - Cai /W6CAI

                              --- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Wawrzynowicz" <mechcondrid@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Ya its a sparkfun bluesmirf silver i thought it could take up to 5v signal
                              > levels
                              >
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