Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Remote area APRS link with OT2s

Expand Messages
  • vk2jma
    G Day Group, I m looking for a way to provide some (cheap) VHF APRS coverage a very remote part on N.S.W.(almost no traffic, just one ham doing lost of KM s).
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 30, 2010
      G'Day Group,
      I'm looking for a way to provide some (cheap) VHF APRS coverage a very remote part on N.S.W.(almost no traffic, just one ham doing lost of KM's). I have access to a TCP/IP network in the area that is totally isolated from the internet, so the final link back to the I-gate will need to be via RF. Has anyone had a play with running two OT2's back to back (in kiss mode maybe?).
      Regards,
      Mark
    • hamer669@aol.com
      I m not exactly sure what you mean by two back to back. It s not like a repeater system. All you need is one Tracker2 (not the OT2) at each of the RF hops
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 31, 2010
        I'm not exactly sure what you mean by two back to back.

        It's not like a repeater system.  All you need is one Tracker2 (not the OT2) at each of the RF hops needed to traverse the distance, and an OT in any of the vehicles you want to have tracked.

        If this is a very remote location, the WIDEx-x path may need to be set much higher than normal.

        For example:

        If you are going hundreds of miles and you need to repeat of 4 mountain tops to get back to the I-gate, I would use the WIDE5-1 command on all of the OT's located at the remote location to insure it makes it to the igate.   If you only need 2 extra hops, then WIDE3-1 might work fine, you might need WIDE4-1, depending on the coverage.  

        Again, all you would need would be a tracker2 and a 2 meter radio/antenna at each of the repeater locations, with all configured as Digis.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: vk2jma <vk2jma@...>
        To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 7:49 pm
        Subject: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s

         
        G'Day Group,
        I'm looking for a way to provide some (cheap) VHF APRS coverage a very remote part on N.S.W.(almost no traffic, just one ham doing lost of KM's). I have access to a TCP/IP network in the area that is totally isolated from the internet, so the final link back to the I-gate will need to be via RF. Has anyone had a play with running two OT2's back to back (in kiss mode maybe?).
        Regards,
        Mark

      • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
        Did you really mean -1 in all of your examples? That would trigger WIDE5, WIDE3, or WIDE4 digipeaters, but only ONE as the first to fire would decrement the
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 31, 2010
          Did you really mean -1 in all of your examples? That would trigger
          WIDE5, WIDE3, or WIDE4 digipeaters, but only ONE as the first to fire
          would decrement the -1 and mark the path component used.

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

          hamer669@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by two back to back.
          >
          > It's not like a repeater system. All you need is one Tracker2 (not
          > the OT2) at each of the RF hops needed to traverse the distance, and
          > an OT in any of the vehicles you want to have tracked.
          >
          > If this is a very remote location, the WIDEx-x path may need to be set
          > much higher than normal.
          >
          > For example:
          >
          > If you are going hundreds of miles and you need to repeat of 4
          > mountain tops to get back to the I-gate, I would use the WIDE5-1
          > command on all of the OT's located at the remote location to insure it
          > makes it to the igate. If you only need 2 extra hops, then WIDE3-1
          > might work fine, you might need WIDE4-1, depending on the coverage.
          >
          > Again, all you would need would be a tracker2 and a 2 meter
          > radio/antenna at each of the repeater locations, with all configured
          > as Digis.
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: vk2jma <vk2jma@...>
          > To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 7:49 pm
          > Subject: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s
          >
          >
          > G'Day Group,
          > I'm looking for a way to provide some (cheap) VHF APRS coverage a very
          > remote part on N.S.W.(almost no traffic, just one ham doing lost of
          > KM's). I have access to a TCP/IP network in the area that is totally
          > isolated from the internet, so the final link back to the I-gate will
          > need to be via RF. Has anyone had a play with running two OT2's back
          > to back (in kiss mode maybe?).
          > Regards,
          > Mark
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Scott Miller
          He s talking about using the KISS output of one unit to drive the KISS input of another. That way the first could continue being a digipeater or whatever, and
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 31, 2010
            He's talking about using the KISS output of one unit to drive the KISS
            input of another. That way the first could continue being a digipeater
            or whatever, and the second will pass packets on the backbone with a
            separate link. I haven't tried it with the T2 myself, but I can't think
            of any reason it wouldn't work.

            Scott

            On 12/31/2010 3:13 AM, hamer669@... wrote:
            > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by two back to back.
            >
            > It's not like a repeater system. All you need is one Tracker2 (not the
            > OT2) at each of the RF hops needed to traverse the distance, and an OT
            > in any of the vehicles you want to have tracked.
            >
            > If this is a very remote location, the WIDEx-x path may need to be set
            > much higher than normal.
            >
            > For example:
            >
            > If you are going hundreds of miles and you need to repeat of 4 mountain
            > tops to get back to the I-gate, I would use the WIDE5-1 command on all
            > of the OT's located at the remote location to insure it makes it to the
            > igate. If you only need 2 extra hops, then WIDE3-1 might work fine, you
            > might need WIDE4-1, depending on the coverage.
            >
            > Again, all you would need would be a tracker2 and a 2 meter
            > radio/antenna at each of the repeater locations, with all configured as
            > Digis.
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: vk2jma <vk2jma@...>
            > To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 7:49 pm
            > Subject: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s
            >
            > G'Day Group,
            > I'm looking for a way to provide some (cheap) VHF APRS coverage a very
            > remote part on N.S.W.(almost no traffic, just one ham doing lost of
            > KM's). I have access to a TCP/IP network in the area that is totally
            > isolated from the internet, so the final link back to the I-gate will
            > need to be via RF. Has anyone had a play with running two OT2's back to
            > back (in kiss mode maybe?).
            > Regards,
            > Mark
            >
            >
          • hamer669@aol.com
            oops... I was thinking the first number was the number of hops..after reviewing the APRS docs, I guess it would be 4-4 or 3-3. ... From: Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 31, 2010
              oops... I was thinking the first number was the number of hops..after reviewing the APRS docs, I guess it would be 4-4 or 3-3.



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) <ldeffenb@...>
              To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 12:16 am
              Subject: Re: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s

               
              Did you really mean -1 in all of your examples? That would trigger
              WIDE5, WIDE3, or WIDE4 digipeaters, but only ONE as the first to fire
              would decrement the -1 and mark the path component used.

              Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

              hamer669@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by two back to back.
              >
              > It's not like a repeater system. All you need is one Tracker2 (not
              > the OT2) at each of the RF hops needed to traverse the distance, and
              > an OT in any of the vehicles you want to have tracked.
              >
              > If this is a very remote location, the WIDEx-x path may need to be set
              > much higher than normal.
              >
              > For example:
              >
              > If you are going hundreds of miles and you need to repeat of 4
              > mountain tops to get back to the I-gate, I would use the WIDE5-1
              > command on all of the OT's located at the remote location to insure it
              > makes it to the igate. If you only need 2 extra hops, then WIDE3-1
              > might work fine, you might need WIDE4-1, depending on the coverage.
              >
              > Again, all you would need would be a tracker2 and a 2 meter
              > radio/antenna at each of the repeater locations, with all configured
              > as Digis.
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: vk2jma <vk2jma@...>
              > To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 7:49 pm
              > Subject: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s
              >
              >
              > G'Day Group,
              > I'm looking for a way to provide some (cheap) VHF APRS coverage a very
              > remote part on N.S.W.(almost no traffic, just one ham doing lost of
              > KM's). I have access to a TCP/IP network in the area that is totally
              > isolated from the internet, so the final link back to the I-gate will
              > need to be via RF. Has anyone had a play with running two OT2's back
              > to back (in kiss mode maybe?).
              > Regards,
              > Mark
              >
              >
              >
              >

            • hamer669@aol.com
              What s the advantage of this? The only reason I would think of doing this would be with RF saturation, one could use a different frequency for the backbone;
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 31, 2010
                What's the advantage of this? The only reason I would think of doing this would be with RF saturation, one could use a different frequency for the backbone; otherwise, why not just setup multiple digis on the standard frequency with a higher than normal WIDEx-x value?



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
                To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 4:31 am
                Subject: Re: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s

                 
                He's talking about using the KISS output of one unit to drive the KISS
                input of another. That way the first could continue being a digipeater
                or whatever, and the second will pass packets on the backbone with a
                separate link. I haven't tried it with the T2 myself, but I can't think
                of any reason it wouldn't work.

                Scott

                On 12/31/2010 3:13 AM, hamer669@... wrote:
                > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by two back to back.
                >
                > It's not like a repeater system. All you need is one Tracker2 (not the
                > OT2) at each of the RF hops needed to traverse the distance, and an OT
                > in any of the vehicles you want to have tracked.
                >
                > If this is a very remote location, the WIDEx-x path may need to be set
                > much higher than normal.
                >
                > For example:
                >
                > If you are going hundreds of miles and you need to repeat of 4 mountain
                > tops to get back to the I-gate, I would use the WIDE5-1 command on all
                > of the OT's located at the remote location to insure it makes it to the
                > igate. If you only need 2 extra hops, then WIDE3-1 might work fine, you
                > might need WIDE4-1, depending on the coverage.
                >
                > Again, all you would need would be a tracker2 and a 2 meter
                > radio/antenna at each of the repeater locations, with all configured as
                > Digis.
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: vk2jma <vk2jma@...>
                > To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 7:49 pm
                > Subject: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s
                >
                > G'Day Group,
                > I'm looking for a way to provide some (cheap) VHF APRS coverage a very
                > remote part on N.S.W.(almost no traffic, just one ham doing lost of
                > KM's). I have access to a TCP/IP network in the area that is totally
                > isolated from the internet, so the final link back to the I-gate will
                > need to be via RF. Has anyone had a play with running two OT2's back to
                > back (in kiss mode maybe?).
                > Regards,
                > Mark
                >
                >

              • Mark Austin
                Gents, Thanks for taking an interest. What I m looking to do is provide some coverage in an area I can t get an RF path to by using the existing microwave
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 31, 2010
                  Gents,

                  Thanks for taking an interest. What I'm looking to do is provide some
                  coverage in an area I can't get an RF path to by using the existing
                  microwave network as a link between the to ends (ot2s?). Minimal equipment is the goal. So the full path would be - normal VHF rf aprs from the remote Ham to an ot2 on a hill top then to an rs233 to IP converter, then via the microwave network (500km) to an IP to rs232 converter to the second ot2, then a 150km normal aprs RF hop to the igate in Tamworth.

                  Sorry if I was a bit vague first time round, the keypad on the Android is a bit small for long emails with fat finger's !
                  Regards,
                  Mark
                  Vk2jma
                • hamer669@aol.com
                  I ve done similar things with remote PLCs. It will probably work, but you wont know until you buy it and install it. Those IP-RS232 converters are very
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 1, 2011
                    I've done similar things with remote PLCs. It will probably work, but you wont know until you buy it and install it. Those IP-RS232 converters are very sensitive to latency issues when ran bi-directional and they are not cheap. 

                    What about running something like this:


                    For $150-$200, you can have a mini-PC running linux at the remote location.  You can then run APRSd in linux, use Wake On Lan to cycle power when stuff breaks, have remote access capabilities.  Many of the boards support things like bluetooth and 802.11 so that you could have access to wireless networks as well.   This way, bandwidth/latency issues go away;  all of the RS232 stuff is handled at the farthest link, converted to IP by the gumstix, and you have the ancillary benefits mentioned before.  

                    It will take some more time to setup, especially if you are not familiar with linux, but in the long run, I think you would be better off.



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Mark Austin <vk2jma@...>
                    To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 9:48 am
                    Subject: Re: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s

                     
                    Gents,

                    Thanks for taking an interest. What I'm looking to do is provide some
                    coverage in an area I can't get an RF path to by using the existing
                    microwave network as a link between the to ends (ot2s?). Minimal equipment is the goal. So the full path would be - normal VHF rf aprs from the remote Ham to an ot2 on a hill top then to an rs233 to IP converter, then via the microwave network (500km) to an IP to rs232 converter to the second ot2, then a 150km normal aprs RF hop to the igate in Tamworth.

                    Sorry if I was a bit vague first time round, the keypad on the Android is a bit small for long emails with fat finger's !
                    Regards,
                    Mark
                    Vk2jma
                  • Tom Tengdin
                    Another approach is to run 4wire E&M on the microwave link if its got muxes on each end already. Then the far end can be a radio only using the E&M leads for
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 1, 2011
                      Another approach is to run 4wire E&M on the microwave link if its got
                      muxes on each end already.

                      Then the far end can be a radio only using the E&M leads for keying.

                      I suspect that if the two ends can't hear each other you could parallel
                      the TX and RX functions into a single TNC setup as a Digipeater.

                      T3

                      On Sat, 2011-01-01 at 18:05 -0500, hamer669@... wrote:
                      >
                      > I've done similar things with remote PLCs. It will probably work, but
                      > you wont know until you buy it and install it. Those IP-RS232
                      > converters are very sensitive to latency issues when ran
                      > bi-directional and they are not cheap.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > What about running something like this:
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.gumstix.com/store/catalog/index.php?cPath=27
                      >
                      >
                      > For $150-$200, you can have a mini-PC running linux at the remote
                      > location. You can then run APRSd in linux, use Wake On Lan to cycle
                      > power when stuff breaks, have remote access capabilities. Many of the
                      > boards support things like bluetooth and 802.11 so that you could have
                      > access to wireless networks as well. This way, bandwidth/latency
                      > issues go away; all of the RS232 stuff is handled at the farthest
                      > link, converted to IP by the gumstix, and you have
                      > the ancillary benefits mentioned before.
                      >
                      >
                      > It will take some more time to setup, especially if you are not
                      > familiar with linux, but in the long run, I think you would be better
                      > off.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Mark Austin <vk2jma@...>
                      > To: tracker2 <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 9:48 am
                      > Subject: Re: [tracker2] Remote area APRS link with OT2s
                      >
                      >
                      > Gents,
                      >
                      > Thanks for taking an interest. What I'm looking to do is provide some
                      > coverage in an area I can't get an RF path to by using the existing
                      > microwave network as a link between the to ends (ot2s?). Minimal
                      > equipment is the goal. So the full path would be - normal VHF rf aprs
                      > from the remote Ham to an ot2 on a hill top then to an rs233 to IP
                      > converter, then via the microwave network (500km) to an IP to rs232
                      > converter to the second ot2, then a 150km normal aprs RF hop to the
                      > igate in Tamworth.
                      >
                      > Sorry if I was a bit vague first time round, the keypad on the Android
                      > is a bit small for long emails with fat finger's !
                      > Regards,
                      > Mark
                      > Vk2jma
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Mark Austin
                      Gents, Thanks for the comments & advice. The E&M comment below reminded me of the IPC100 device I d used a very long time ago. I found 3 tucked in the back of
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 18, 2011
                        Gents,
                        Thanks for the comments & advice. The E&M comment below reminded me of
                        the IPC100 device I'd used a very long time ago. I found 3 tucked in
                        the back of the workshop and it is working a treat across the comms
                        room. This will leave only the radio and one IPC100 out in the field.
                        Multi casting over the IP network means the Tracker setup is simple,
                        it thinks its only attached to one radio, not both two, both local and
                        remote.
                        regards,
                        Mark


                        On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Tom Tengdin <t3@...> wrote:
                        > Another approach is to run 4wire E&M on the microwave link if its got
                        > muxes on each end already.
                        >
                        > Then the far end can be a radio only using the E&M leads for keying.
                        >
                        > I suspect that if the two ends can't hear each other you could parallel
                        > the TX and RX functions into a single TNC setup as a Digipeater.
                        >
                        > T3
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.