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Re: [tracker2] T2-301 power supply

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  • Jason KG4WSV
    ... sounds a bit high to me - that s the spec for the energizer AA lithium. Alkaline batteries don t like high current draws. I think alkalines are a losing
    Message 1 of 9 , May 9, 2010
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      On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Bob Burns W9RXR <w9rxr_@...> wrote:

      > Duracell alkaline AA cells are rated at 1.5 volts and around 2800 mAH
      > (is this number correct?)

      sounds a bit high to me - that's the spec for the energizer AA lithium.

      Alkaline batteries don't like high current draws. I think alkalines
      are a losing proposition.

      I either can't find my notes or failed to take any, but IIRC an 8 pack
      of energizer AA lithium will run a T2-301 at default power (5W)
      beaconing once a minute for at least 24 hours. A 4 pack of CR123A
      cells (3V lithium camera battery) will go over 12 hours (12 was the
      duration of the test, batteries were not dead at the end of the test).

      It depends on how long and how frequently you want to operate. If
      this is for ballooning or emergency use, e.g. SAR (note: I am not an
      SAR person), for example, I think lithium batteries would be better.
      They are zero maintenance, high capacity, cold-tolerant, and have a
      long shelf life. Rechargeables, on the other hand, require regular
      maintenance - they don't like to sit around discharged, so you need to
      charge them occasionally even if you aren't using them.

      I vaguely recall some discussion here about the minimum voltage for
      the T2-301. I do recall seeing a 7808 regulator when I opened up the
      one that landed in the river, so there's a minimum of 8.6V for
      reliable operation. The actual lower limit may be higher than that.

      -Jason
      kg4wsv
    • Bob Burns W9RXR
      ... Found my source. Duracell Alkaline-Manganese Dioxide tech bulletin. http://www1.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/others/ATB-full.pdf Rated (maybe over-rated?) capacity
      Message 2 of 9 , May 9, 2010
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        At 05:46 PM 5/9/2010, Jason KG4WSV wrote:
        >On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Bob Burns W9RXR <w9rxr_@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Duracell alkaline AA cells are rated at 1.5 volts and around 2800 mAH
        > > (is this number correct?)
        >
        >sounds a bit high to me - that's the spec for the energizer AA lithium.

        Found my source. Duracell Alkaline-Manganese Dioxide tech bulletin.

        http://www1.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/others/ATB-full.pdf

        Rated (maybe over-rated?) capacity of the Duracell MN1500 (AA) cell
        is 2.850 AH.

        >Alkaline batteries don't like high current draws. I think alkalines
        >are a losing proposition.

        A point worth considering.

        >I either can't find my notes or failed to take any, but IIRC an 8
        >pack of energizer AA lithium will run a T2-301 at default power (5W)
        >beaconing once a minute for at least 24 hours.

        Useful information. From Energizer's Application manual, the lithium
        cells would seem to be better suited to this application. The shelf
        life, temperature characteristics, and high discharge capability look
        good, too. I'll have to check local stores for availability.

        Just need to find an 8-cell flat-pack battery holder.

        Bob...
      • Jason KG4WSV
        ... Oh, I believe you (and the data sheet). I m sure it s true for _some_ load. Duracell s datasheet has lots more data than the last Energizer datasheet I
        Message 3 of 9 , May 9, 2010
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          On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Bob Burns W9RXR <w9rxr_@...> wrote:
          > Found my source. Duracell Alkaline-Manganese Dioxide tech bulletin.
          >
          > http://www1.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/others/ATB-full.pdf
          >
          > Rated (maybe over-rated?) capacity of the Duracell MN1500 (AA) cell
          > is 2.850 AH.

          Oh, I believe you (and the data sheet). I'm sure it's true for _some_
          load. Duracell's datasheet has lots more data than the last Energizer
          datasheet I looked at, but neither of them tell you the current draw
          for that Ah rating. Duracell's got some interesting curves with
          larger (e.g. 275mA) loads that may give a clue to high current
          performance.

          > I'll have to check local stores for availability.

          Check your local discount store's photo department. About $17 per 8
          pack is the best price I've found.

          > Just need to find an 8-cell flat-pack battery holder.

          I wired two 4xAA holders side by side, but it's not an enclosure -
          just something meant to ride inside a balloon payload.

          -Jason
          kg4wsv
        • Bob Burns W9RXR
          ... Scott, what are the dimensions of the 8 AA battery holder you have in the store? https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=96 I ve
          Message 4 of 9 , May 9, 2010
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            At 06:15 PM 5/9/2010, Bob Burns W9RXR wrote:

            >Just need to find an 8-cell flat-pack battery holder.

            Scott, what are the dimensions of the 8 AA battery holder you have in
            the store?

            https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=96

            I've found some 8-cell flat-pack holders on-line, but only from
            Aisian distributors who have large minimum orders. The Blossom BH381
            is one example. I'm thinking that a T2-301 and an 8-cell flat-pack
            holder would fit very nicely in something like a Pelican 1030 case.

            Bob...
          • Scott Miller
            I d have to check - it s made by MPD and their site at batteryholders.com should have drawings. For the SAR packs, I forget where I got those holders. I ll
            Message 5 of 9 , May 9, 2010
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              I'd have to check - it's made by MPD and their site at
              batteryholders.com should have drawings.

              For the SAR packs, I forget where I got those holders. I'll have to go
              dig through some invoices.

              Scott

              Bob Burns W9RXR wrote:
              >
              >
              > At 06:15 PM 5/9/2010, Bob Burns W9RXR wrote:
              >
              > >Just need to find an 8-cell flat-pack battery holder.
              >
              > Scott, what are the dimensions of the 8 AA battery holder you have in
              > the store?
              >
              > https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=96
              > <https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=96>
              >
              > I've found some 8-cell flat-pack holders on-line, but only from
              > Aisian distributors who have large minimum orders. The Blossom BH381
              > is one example. I'm thinking that a T2-301 and an 8-cell flat-pack
              > holder would fit very nicely in something like a Pelican 1030 case.
              >
              > Bob...
              >
              >
            • Larry Simon
              are you looking for something like this? _____ From:
              Message 6 of 9 , May 9, 2010
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                are you looking for something like this?
                <http://www.batteryspace.com/batteryholder8xaasidebysidewith626awgwireleads-rohscompliant.aspx>

                _____

                From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Bob Burns W9RXR
                Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 4:58 PM
                To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [tracker2] T2-301 power supply




                At 06:15 PM 5/9/2010, Bob Burns W9RXR wrote:

                >Just need to find an 8-cell flat-pack battery holder.

                Scott, what are the dimensions of the 8 AA battery holder you have in
                the store?

                <https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=96>

                I've found some 8-cell flat-pack holders on-line, but only from
                Aisian distributors who have large minimum orders. The Blossom BH381
                is one example. I'm thinking that a T2-301 and an 8-cell flat-pack
                holder would fit very nicely in something like a Pelican 1030 case.

                Bob...
              • Tim Cunningham
                Forget about Alkaline. Here is a nice reference to some NiMH batteries and chargers for reference you might find helpful, but it is a little dated:
                Message 7 of 9 , May 9, 2010
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                  Forget about Alkaline.

                  Here is a nice reference to some NiMH batteries and chargers for reference
                  you might find helpful, but it is a little dated:

                  http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM


                  I have tested a few brands myself (NiMH variety) and found that none lived
                  up to their actual ratings. Chargers and batteries have been a variable in
                  my digital camera operation. I finally tossed my charger and upgraded to a
                  more elaborate charger and it indeed made a huge difference in how I group
                  my batteries for camera/flash operation. Some batteries come close to their
                  rated numbers as far as capacity (NiMH type) but I have not seen many in my
                  experience. It only takes one bad link in a chain to cause trouble as well.
                  So, the condition of any battery and its storage capability are important
                  when used in series. I once had some Camedia batteries that really performed
                  many years ago and they lasted the longest as far as the number of recharge
                  cycles. History has not repeated in this area. Manufacturers change their
                  recipe from time to time and you cannot expect the same brand to perform the
                  same either as new batteries are released. I have thrown many of the
                  Duracell 2600mah batteries away due to high impedance failures or failure to
                  live up to the rated capacity. I have been pleased with PowerEx so far, but
                  I just started using their products in the past 6 months.

                  I have a Maha MH-C9000 charger that I have been very pleased with using to
                  keep my batteries in good condition and report the health by analyzing the
                  batteries. This has proved its worth many times to keep my camera and flash
                  running on extended periods. I carry several sets of batteries grouped
                  according to their actual (not rated) storage capacity. It makes enough
                  difference to do this when you need reliable and repeatable performance.

                  Lithium's will be the best bet.

                  All rechargeables need to be topped off or recharged before prior to use due
                  to shelf life limitations if you want/need/demand maximum performance. For
                  critical operation you need to analyze your batteries (put them to the test)
                  before you put them into operation to avoid any surprises.


                  73's,

                  Tim - N8DEU



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Jason KG4WSV" <kg4wsv@...>
                  To: <tracker2@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 4:46 PM
                  Subject: Re: [tracker2] T2-301 power supply


                  > On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Bob Burns W9RXR <w9rxr_@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >> Duracell alkaline AA cells are rated at 1.5 volts and around 2800 mAH
                  >> (is this number correct?)
                  >
                  > sounds a bit high to me - that's the spec for the energizer AA lithium.
                  >
                  > Alkaline batteries don't like high current draws. I think alkalines
                  > are a losing proposition.
                  >
                  > I either can't find my notes or failed to take any, but IIRC an 8 pack
                  > of energizer AA lithium will run a T2-301 at default power (5W)
                  > beaconing once a minute for at least 24 hours. A 4 pack of CR123A
                  > cells (3V lithium camera battery) will go over 12 hours (12 was the
                  > duration of the test, batteries were not dead at the end of the test).
                  >
                  > It depends on how long and how frequently you want to operate. If
                  > this is for ballooning or emergency use, e.g. SAR (note: I am not an
                  > SAR person), for example, I think lithium batteries would be better.
                  > They are zero maintenance, high capacity, cold-tolerant, and have a
                  > long shelf life. Rechargeables, on the other hand, require regular
                  > maintenance - they don't like to sit around discharged, so you need to
                  > charge them occasionally even if you aren't using them.
                  >
                  > I vaguely recall some discussion here about the minimum voltage for
                  > the T2-301. I do recall seeing a 7808 regulator when I opened up the
                  > one that landed in the river, so there's a minimum of 8.6V for
                  > reliable operation. The actual lower limit may be higher than that.
                  >
                  > -Jason
                  > kg4wsv
                  >
                • Bob Burns W9RXR
                  ... Exactly. Thanks, Larry! ... Check. ... I ll be stopping at Wal-Mart (ugh) this evening to see what they have. Bob...
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 10, 2010
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                    At 08:31 PM 5/9/2010, Larry Simon wrote:
                    >are you looking for something like this?
                    ><http://www.batteryspace.com/batteryholder8xaasidebysidewith626awgwireleads-rohscompliant.aspx>

                    Exactly. Thanks, Larry!

                    At 01:19 AM 5/10/2010, Tim Cunningham wrote:
                    >Forget about Alkaline.

                    Check.

                    >Lithium's will be the best bet.

                    I'll be stopping at Wal-Mart (ugh) this evening to see what they have.

                    Bob...
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