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TR and the Vanderbilts

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  • chiponthecape
    I m now working on Book #2 to be called Quentin and Flora. Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin s fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 13, 2012
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      I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?
    • Linda E. Milano
      I actually met Flora a few years before her death. Lovely, lovely woman. She lived with her daughter Pamela Tower LeBoutillier and her family at the family
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 13, 2012
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        I actually met Flora a few years before her death.  Lovely, lovely woman.  She lived with her daughter Pamela Tower LeBoutillier and her family at the family home, The Studio.  It was a gift to Flora's mother from her father as a place for her to paint.  Pamela's son, John LeBoutillier, is a conservative pundit active today.

         

        There was a book on the Whitney women you might find interesting.  Misplaced my copy, or I'd give you more specifics.  I'll look for it.  It dealt mainly with their involvement with the Whitney Museum.  It was called something exotic, like "The Whitney Women."

         

        There is also The Lion's Pride by Ed Renehan.

         

        TR originally classed all the Vanderbilts in the "malefactors of great wealth" category, but he called on Flora's mother, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, and was pleasantly surprised.  Flora was the daughter of Gertrude Vanderbilt and Harry Payne Whitney.  Flora stayed in touch with the Roosevelt family long after Quentin's death. 

         

        There were a whole series of photos of Quentin and Flora taken at Sagamore Hill.  The bench they were sitting upon for the pictures is still there.

         

        There is more, but it's late and I'm tired and have had a stressful week.    As I think of more, I'll let you know.

         

        Best,

        Linda Milano

         

        From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chiponthecape
        Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:28 PM
        To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts

         

         

        I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?

      • Stan Wien
        another source you might check is the The Roosevelt Family of Sagamore HIll which makes reference to Flora Whitney in the Index.  Author is Hermann Hagedorn
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 14, 2012
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          another source you might check is the The Roosevelt Family of Sagamore HIll which makes reference to Flora Whitney in the Index.  Author is Hermann Hagedorn
           
          Keep us posted on your progress
           
          Stan Wien
           

          From: Linda E. Milano <lindamilano721@...>
          To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:16 AM
          Subject: RE: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts

           
          I actually met Flora a few years before her death.  Lovely, lovely woman.  She lived with her daughter Pamela Tower LeBoutillier and her family at the family home, The Studio.  It was a gift to Flora's mother from her father as a place for her to paint.  Pamela's son, John LeBoutillier, is a conservative pundit active today.
           
          There was a book on the Whitney women you might find interesting.  Misplaced my copy, or I'd give you more specifics.  I'll look for it.  It dealt mainly with their involvement with the Whitney Museum.  It was called something exotic, like "The Whitney Women."
           
          There is also The Lion's Pride by Ed Renehan.
           
          TR originally classed all the Vanderbilts in the "malefactors of great wealth" category, but he called on Flora's mother, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, and was pleasantly surprised.  Flora was the daughter of Gertrude Vanderbilt and Harry Payne Whitney.  Flora stayed in touch with the Roosevelt family long after Quentin's death. 
           
          There were a whole series of photos of Quentin and Flora taken at Sagamore Hill.  The bench they were sitting upon for the pictures is still there.
           
          There is more, but it's late and I'm tired and have had a stressful week.    As I think of more, I'll let you know.
           
          Best,
          Linda Milano
           
          From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chiponthecape
          Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:28 PM
          To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
           
           
          I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?


        • chiponthecape
          Thanks for your help.
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 14, 2012
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            Thanks for your help.

            --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Stan Wien <sdwien@...> wrote:
            >
            > another source you might check is the The Roosevelt Family of Sagamore HIll which makes reference to Flora Whitney in the Index.  Author is Hermann Hagedorn
            >  
            > Keep us posted on your progress
            >
            > Stan Wien
            >  
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Linda E. Milano <lindamilano721@...>
            > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:16 AM
            > Subject: RE: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
            >
            >
            >  
            > I actually met Flora a few years before her death.  Lovely, lovely woman.  She lived with her daughter Pamela Tower LeBoutillier and her family at the family home, The Studio.  It was a gift to Flora's mother from her father as a place for her to paint.  Pamela's son, John LeBoutillier, is a conservative pundit active today.
            >  
            > There was a book on the Whitney women you might find interesting.  Misplaced my copy, or I'd give you more specifics.  I'll look for it.  It dealt mainly with their involvement with the Whitney Museum.  It was called something exotic, like "The Whitney Women."
            >  
            > There is also The Lion's Pride by Ed Renehan.
            >  
            > TR originally classed all the Vanderbilts in the "malefactors of great wealth" category, but he called on Flora's mother, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, and was pleasantly surprised.  Flora was the daughter of Gertrude Vanderbilt and Harry Payne Whitney.  Flora stayed in touch with the Roosevelt family long after Quentin's death. 
            >  
            > There were a whole series of photos of Quentin and Flora taken at Sagamore Hill.  The bench they were sitting upon for the pictures is still there.
            >  
            > There is more, but it's late and I'm tired and have had a stressful week.    As I think of more, I'll let you know.
            >  
            > Best,
            > Linda Milano
            >  
            > From:tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chiponthecape
            > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:28 PM
            > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
            >  
            >  
            > I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?
            >
          • chiponthecape
            ... Many thanks, Chip
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 14, 2012
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              > To Linda - Thanks for the leads. I'm aware of the books you cited but I'd like to know more about "The malefactors of great wealth" and his meeting with Flora's mother. Can you direct me to a source?

              Many thanks,

              Chip
              > ________________________________
              > From: Linda E. Milano <lindamilano721@...>
              > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:16 AM
              > Subject: RE: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
              >
              >
              >  
              > I actually met Flora a few years before her death.  Lovely, lovely woman.  She lived with her daughter Pamela Tower LeBoutillier and her family at the family home, The Studio.  It was a gift to Flora's mother from her father as a place for her to paint.  Pamela's son, John LeBoutillier, is a conservative pundit active today.
              >  
              > There was a book on the Whitney women you might find interesting.  Misplaced my copy, or I'd give you more specifics.  I'll look for it.  It dealt mainly with their involvement with the Whitney Museum.  It was called something exotic, like "The Whitney Women."
              >  
              > There is also The Lion's Pride by Ed Renehan.
              >  
              > TR originally classed all the Vanderbilts in the "malefactors of great wealth" category, but he called on Flora's mother, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, and was pleasantly surprised.  Flora was the daughter of Gertrude Vanderbilt and Harry Payne Whitney.  Flora stayed in touch with the Roosevelt family long after Quentin's death. 
              >  
              > There were a whole series of photos of Quentin and Flora taken at Sagamore Hill.  The bench they were sitting upon for the pictures is still there.
              >  
              > There is more, but it's late and I'm tired and have had a stressful week.    As I think of more, I'll let you know.
              >  
              > Best,
              > Linda Milano
              >  
              > From:tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chiponthecape
              > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:28 PM
              > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
              >  
              >  
              > I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?
              >
            • Linda E. Milano
              From the Theodore Roosevelt Cyclopedia: MALEFACTORS OF GREAT WEALTH. Too much cannot be said against the men of wealth who sacrifice everything to getting
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 14, 2012
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                From the Theodore Roosevelt Cyclopedia:

                 

                "MALEFACTORS OF GREAT WEALTH." Too much cannot be said against the men of wealth who sacrifice everything to getting wealth. There is not in the world a more ignoble character than the mere money-getting American, insensible to every duty, regardless of every principle, bent only on amassing a fortune, and putting his fortune only to the basest uses —whether these uses be to speculate in stocks and wreck railroads himself, or to allow his son to lead a life of foolish and expensive idleness and gross debauchery, or to purchase some scoundrel of high social position, foreign or native, for his daughter. Such a man is only the more dangerous if he occasionally does some deed like founding a college or endowing a

                church, which makes those good people who are also foolish forget his real iniquity. These men are equally careless of the working men, whom they oppress, and of the State, whose existence they imperil. There are not very many of them, but there is a very great number of men who approach more or less closely to the type, and, just in so far as they do so approach, they are curses to the country. (Forum, February 1895.) Mem. Ed. XV, 10; Nat. Ed. XIII, 9. - Forum Magazine, February 1895, quoted in the Collected Works of Theodore Roosevelt, Memorial Edition volume XV, page 10; National Edition Volume XIII, page 9.

                 

                There are some oblique references to the Vanderbilt family in that quote.  Flora's mother's first cousin, Consuelo Vanderbilt, was married off to the 9th Duke of Marlborough.    The Duke was in financial trouble, and her parents wanted their only daughter to have a title.  They were married in November 1895 in what was touted as the wedding of the century.

                 

                Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney founded the Whitney Museum, and was an artist herself.  TR was impressed that she was contributing to society (she was involved in the running of the museum, not just donating money), and felt that she had her priorities straight.  I was checking places to see where I had read it, but then realized that I got the story from John Gable, who is, unfortunately, no longer with us.

                 

                Best,

                Linda

                 

                 

                From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chiponthecape
                Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:29 PM
                To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [tr-m] Re: TR and the Vanderbilts

                 

                 

                > To Linda - Thanks for the leads. I'm aware of the books you cited but I'd like to know more about "The malefactors of great wealth" and his meeting with Flora's mother. Can you direct me to a source?

                Many thanks,

                Chip

                > ________________________________
                > From: Linda E. Milano <lindamilano721@...>
                > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:16 AM
                > Subject: RE: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
                >
                >
                >  
                > I actually met Flora a few years before her death.  Lovely, lovely woman.  She lived with her daughter Pamela Tower LeBoutillier and her family at the family home, The Studio.  It was a gift to Flora's mother from her father as a place for her to paint.  Pamela's son, John LeBoutillier, is a conservative pundit active today.
                >  
                > There was a book on the Whitney women you might find interesting.  Misplaced my copy, or I'd give you more specifics.  I'll look for it.  It dealt mainly with their involvement with the Whitney Museum.  It was called something exotic, like "The Whitney Women."
                >  
                > There is also The Lion's Pride by Ed Renehan.
                >  
                > TR originally classed all the Vanderbilts in the "malefactors of great wealth" category, but he called on Flora's mother, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, and was pleasantly surprised.  Flora was the daughter of Gertrude Vanderbilt and Harry Payne Whitney.  Flora stayed in touch with the Roosevelt family long after Quentin's death. 
                >  
                > There were a whole series of photos of Quentin and Flora taken at Sagamore Hill.  The bench they were sitting upon for the pictures is still there.
                >  
                > There is more, but it's late and I'm tired and have had a stressful week.    As I think of more, I'll let you know.
                >  
                > Best,
                > Linda Milano
                >  
                > From:tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chiponthecape
                > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:28 PM
                > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
                >  
                >  
                > I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?
                >

              • Garry Austin
                Good morning, In my TR collection I have a book; Vanderbilt, Jr., Cornelius. FAREWELL TO FIFTH AVENUE. New York: Simon And Schuster, 1935. Third printing.
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 16, 2012
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                  Good morning,
                  In my TR collection I have a book;
                  Vanderbilt, Jr., Cornelius. FAREWELL TO FIFTH AVENUE. New York: Simon And Schuster, 1935. Third printing. Octavo, red cloth with a paper label. 267pp. with index. Photographs. Very good. Part of the book is reminiscences of TR and his sons by Vanderbilt

                  It would be worth getting a copy at the library and scanning the index. There were several TR references and I remember them as warm.
                  Best, GA


                  From: chiponthecape <chip@...>
                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:27 PM
                  Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts

                   
                  I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?



                • chiponthecape
                  Thanks again, Linda Great stuff. Chip
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 17, 2012
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                    Thanks again, Linda Great stuff.

                    Chip

                    --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, "Linda E. Milano" <lindamilano721@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From the Theodore Roosevelt Cyclopedia:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > "MALEFACTORS OF GREAT WEALTH." Too much cannot be said against the men of
                    > wealth who sacrifice everything to getting wealth. There is not in the world
                    > a more ignoble character than the mere money-getting American, insensible to
                    > every duty, regardless of every principle, bent only on amassing a fortune,
                    > and putting his fortune only to the basest uses —whether these uses be to
                    > speculate in stocks and wreck railroads himself, or to allow his son to lead
                    > a life of foolish and expensive idleness and gross debauchery, or to
                    > purchase some scoundrel of high social position, foreign or native, for his
                    > daughter. Such a man is only the more dangerous if he occasionally does some
                    > deed like founding a college or endowing a
                    >
                    > church, which makes those good people who are also foolish forget his real
                    > iniquity. These men are equally careless of the working men, whom they
                    > oppress, and of the State, whose existence they imperil. There are not very
                    > many of them, but there is a very great number of men who approach more or
                    > less closely to the type, and, just in so far as they do so approach, they
                    > are curses to the country. (Forum, February 1895.) Mem. Ed. XV, 10; Nat. Ed.
                    > XIII, 9. - Forum Magazine, February 1895, quoted in the Collected Works of
                    > Theodore Roosevelt, Memorial Edition volume XV, page 10; National Edition
                    > Volume XIII, page 9.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > There are some oblique references to the Vanderbilt family in that quote.
                    > Flora's mother's first cousin, Consuelo Vanderbilt, was married off to the
                    > 9th Duke of Marlborough. The Duke was in financial trouble, and her
                    > parents wanted their only daughter to have a title. They were married in
                    > November 1895 in what was touted as the wedding of the century.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney founded the Whitney Museum, and was an artist
                    > herself. TR was impressed that she was contributing to society (she was
                    > involved in the running of the museum, not just donating money), and felt
                    > that she had her priorities straight. I was checking places to see where I
                    > had read it, but then realized that I got the story from John Gable, who is,
                    > unfortunately, no longer with us.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Best,
                    >
                    > Linda
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > chiponthecape
                    > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:29 PM
                    > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [tr-m] Re: TR and the Vanderbilts
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > To Linda - Thanks for the leads. I'm aware of the books you cited but I'd
                    > like to know more about "The malefactors of great wealth" and his meeting
                    > with Flora's mother. Can you direct me to a source?
                    >
                    > Many thanks,
                    >
                    > Chip
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: Linda E. Milano <lindamilano721@>
                    > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:16 AM
                    > > Subject: RE: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Â
                    > > I actually met Flora a few years before her death. Lovely, lovely
                    > woman. She lived with her daughter Pamela Tower LeBoutillier and her
                    > family at the family home, The Studio. It was a gift to Flora's mother
                    > from her father as a place for her to paint. Pamela's son, John
                    > LeBoutillier, is a conservative pundit active today.
                    > > Â
                    > > There was a book on the Whitney women you might find interesting.Â
                    > Misplaced my copy, or I'd give you more specifics. I'll look for it. It
                    > dealt mainly with their involvement with the Whitney Museum. It was called
                    > something exotic, like "The Whitney Women."
                    > > Â
                    > > There is also The Lion's Pride by Ed Renehan.
                    > > Â
                    > > TR originally classed all the Vanderbilts in the "malefactors of great
                    > wealth" category, but he called on Flora's mother, Gertrude Vanderbilt
                    > Whitney, and was pleasantly surprised. Flora was the daughter of Gertrude
                    > Vanderbilt and Harry Payne Whitney. Flora stayed in touch with the
                    > Roosevelt family long after Quentin's death.Â
                    > > Â
                    > > There were a whole series of photos of Quentin and Flora taken at Sagamore
                    > Hill. The bench they were sitting upon for the pictures is still there.
                    > > Â
                    > > There is more, but it's late and I'm tired and have had a stressful week.Â
                    > Â Â As I think of more, I'll let you know.
                    > > Â
                    > > Best,
                    > > Linda Milano
                    > > Â
                    > > From:tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                    > chiponthecape
                    > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:28 PM
                    > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
                    > > Â
                    > > Â
                    > > I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne
                    > Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of
                    > the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship
                    > between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce.
                    > Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for
                    > me?
                    > >
                    >
                  • chiponthecape
                    Garry - This is a great lead. Thanks much. Chip
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 17, 2012
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                      Garry - This is a great lead. Thanks much. Chip

                      --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Garry Austin <garryraustin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Good morning,
                      > In my TR collection I have a book;
                      > Vanderbilt, Jr., Cornelius. FAREWELL TO FIFTH AVENUE. New York: Simon And Schuster, 1935. Third printing. Octavo, red cloth with a paper label. 267pp. with index. Photographs. Very good. Part of the book is reminiscences of TR and his sons by Vanderbilt
                      >
                      > It would be worth getting a copy at the library and scanning the index. There were several TR references and I remember them as warm.
                      > Best, GA
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: chiponthecape <chip@...>
                      > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:27 PM
                      > Subject: [tr-m] TR and the Vanderbilts
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > I'm now working on Book #2 to be called "Quentin and Flora." Flora Payne Whitney, Quentin's fiancee, was a Vanderbilt, great-great-grandaughter of the Commodore and granddaughter of CV II. I want to explore the relationship between the Roosevelts and Vanderbilts but information appears to be scarce. Were they the Montagues and the Capulets or something else? Any guidance for me?
                      >
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