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Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

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  • kuniegel@verizon.net
    I made a cut and paste error and attributed the wrong excerpt to the opposite person. It is now correct below sorry for the confusing error!!!! Your
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 6, 2011
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      I made a cut and paste error and attributed the wrong excerpt to the opposite person. It is now correct below sorry for the confusing error!!!!

      Your information about Corinne's book is greatly appreciated. The errors you mentioned are sure to be things that TR would want pointed out in the interest of historical accuracy. Perhaps you can help me out clearing up an inconsistency between Corinne’s Book and Bishop’s. The time line between the Saratoga speech and Quentin’s death notification seem to indicate an error. I had thought that Corinne may have been talking about an unofficial notification that could have come July 16, 1918. It seemed unlikely that Corinne was confused about the time line.

       

      ( Bishop’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

       

      On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.

       

      ( Corinne’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

      The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed. 

       

      (Side note: was Churchill related to TR in anyway? {an acquaintance I made believed there was a common ancestor})

       

      (Passage from My Brother Theodore Roosevelt)

      Political events in America were also marching rapidly forward.  Already, wherever one lent a listening ear, the growing murmur rose louder and louder that Theodore Roosevelt was the only candidate to be nominated by the Republican party in 1920.  The men who had parted from him in 1912, the men who had not rallied around him in 1916, were all eagerly ranging themselves on the side of this importunate rumor.  A culminating moment was approaching.  It was the middle of July, and the informal convention of the Republican party in New York State was about to take place at Saratoga.  My eldest son, State Senator Theodore Douglas Robinson, led a number of men in the opposition of the then incumbent of the gubernatorial chair, Charles S.  Whitman.  The hearts of many were strong with desire that my brother himself should be the Republican nominee for the next governor of New York State.  No one knew his attitude on the subject, but he had promised to make the address of the occasion, my son having been appointed to make the request that he should do so.  My husband and I had arranged to meet him in Saratoga, my son having preceded us to Albany to make all the formal arrangements.  The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed.  Of course there was a forlorn hope that this information might not be true, that the gallant boy might perhaps have reached the earth alive and might already be a prisoner in a German camp, but there seemed but little doubt of the truth of the terrible fact.  My son telephoned me the news from Albany before the morning paper could arrive at my country home, and at the same time said to me that he did not feel justified in asking his Uncle Theodore whether he still would come to Saratoga, but that he wanted me to get this information for him if possible.

      My country home in the Mohawk Hills of New York State is many miles from Sagamore Hill on Long Island, and it was difficult to get telephone connection.  My heart was unspeakably sore and heavy at the thought of the terrible sorrow that had come to my sister-in-law and my brother, and I shrank from asking any question concerning any matter except the sad news of the death of Quentin, or imminent danger to him.  My brother himself came to the telephone; the sound of his voice was as if steel had entered into the tone.  As years before he had written me from South Africa in my own great sorrow, he had "grasped the nettle." I asked him whether he would like me to come down at once to Oyster Bay, and his answer was almost harsh in its rapidity: "Of course not I will meet you in Saratoga as arranged.  It is more than ever my duty to be there.  You can come down to New York after the convention." The very tone of his voice made me realize the agony in his heart, but duty was paramount.  The affairs of his State, the affairs of the nation,' needed his counsel, needed his self-control.  His boy had paid the final price of duty; was he, the father who had taught that boy the ideal of service and sacrifice, to shrink in cowardly fashion at the crucial moment?

      The next day I met him in Albany and motored him to Saratoga.  His face was set and grave, but he welcomed my sympathy generously.  Meanwhile, the night before there had been great excitement in Saratoga.  A number of delegates were in favor of renominating Governor Charles S.  Whitman on the Republican ticket, but a large and important group of men, in fact, the largest and most important group in the Republican party of New York State, were extremely anxious that Colonel Roosevelt should allow his name to be brought forward as a candidate for governor.  Elihu Root, William Howard Taft, and many of the weighty "bosses" of the various counties lent all their efforts toward this achievement.  Colonel Roosevelt, on his arrival in Saratoga, took a quiet luncheon with my family, Mrs.  Parsons, and myself, after which we adjourned to the large hall in which the convention was to be held.  I remember before we left him that Mrs.  Parsons suggested the insertion of a sentence in the speech which he was about to make, and his immediate and grateful response to the suggestion.  No one had a more open mind to the helpful suggestion of others.

       

      Zzzzz

      Passage from Theodore Roosevelt in his own words / Bishop)

      eaRly  in July 1918 a movement was started, under the leadership of men who for years had been among Roose­velt's bitterest political enemies, to induce him to con­sent to become the Republican candidate for Governor of New York. The party was in desperate straits at the time. The Governor, who was a Republican and whose administra­tion had been very unpopular, was a candidate for re­election and had such complete control of the party ma­chinery that he was able to dictate his own renomination, unless Roosevelt would consent to enter the primaries against him. The shrewdest politicians of the party were convinced that without Roosevelt's candidacy defeat in the November elections was certain. They called a state con­ference of the party leaders, at Saratoga, since under the primary law there could be no convention, and invited Roosevelt, Root and Taft to deliver addresses before it. Roosevelt consented with the others. On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle. When the news was conveyed to him at Oyster Bay, as he was starting for New York, he said, after taking it to his wife:

      " Quentin's mother and I are very glad that he got to the front and had a chance to render some service to his coun­try and to show the stuff there was in him before his fate befell him."

      He went to the city and when asked if he would go to the conference and make his address, he said: "I must go; it is my duty." He started immediately for Saratoga, and when he appeared in the conference hall, the entire assem­blage arose and gave him a subdued and most impressive greeting. He delivered his address as he had prepared it in advance, and at its close added a passage which, inspired as it clearly was by the affliction that had befallen him, made a profound impression upon his auditors:

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

       

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:54 PM
      Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

       

      Corinne's book is excellent in its way, but contains many inaccuracies.  For example, TR met Winston Churchill at his sister Bamie's house, not at Corinne's, and not in the year that Corinne said.  Corinne was a poet, and must be allowed poetic license.  It is a good sister's perspective.

      Best,

      Linda Milano

      From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
      Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:46 PM
      To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

       

      I am enjoying seeing all the input about favorite TR books. I have a number of books that I love that I have not seen mentioned so I thought that I would add one more to the list.

      If you have not read the following book you have missed TR from a sisters perspective. There are many stories in this book that I have not seen included in other book. If you wish to read it and can not find a hard copy. You can get an electronic copy at the supplied URL below. If you wish to listen to it in your car or on other devices you can download audio versions of every chapter. I drive 40 minutes to work and have a choice of over 30 books to listen to on my ipod connected to my car sound system.

      MY BROTHER THEODORE  ROOSEVELT BY CORINNE ROOSEVELT ROBINSON
      COPYRIGHT, 1921

      http://www.tramericanpatriot.com/content.php?book_id=10046 (you can launch the entire book at the bottom of this page and copy and paste it to your computer. I also have a program on my computer called textAloud that reads the text while I do my 40 minutes on the tread mill) RJK

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 6:27 PM

      Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

       

      Of course, the Morris trilogy has to head the list.

      Don't forget "The Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt"  by William Harbaugh.  Best one volume bio of TR.  Concise and to the point.  John Gable swore by it.

      There is also a Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt by Stephan Lorant, which is less about the man himself than a thorough background of the era and forces with which TR had to contend.

      Other good ones - Mornings on Horseback by David McCullough.  Takes TR up to the time he married Edith Kermit Carow.  Excellent study about how his family helped to shape the man he was to become.

      Theodore Roosevelt: A Life by Nathan Miller.

      If you want a good vignette of a specific period of TR's life, then Commissioner Roosevelt by H. Paul Jeffers is good.

      BY TR:

      The Rough Riders by Theodore Roosevelt.  There is also a book by the same title by Edward Marshall - a journalist with the campaign who actually was injured during the fighting. More balanced reporting, with a better list of the troops.

      I like looking through TR's Presidential Addresses.  Shows exactly what was on his mind, in his own words.

      As for the Autobiography of Theodore Roosevelt - it was actually cobbled together from a series of articles that TR wrote over the years, and is more significant for what it leaves out than what it includes.

      That's about all I can think of at the moment.

      Best,

      Linda Milano

      From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert G Rafael Guber
      Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 1:01 PM
      To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

       

      I would have to begin (maybe begin is not the right word) with the Morris trilogy. The reason is simple. He gives us a detailed continuous base line of information from which more specific knowledge can be added from other sources based on a reader's interests. He is also the TR of TR authors - a       
      man who was laughed at as a foreign born writer of ad copy who thought he could accomplish something unique and important. "They" told him it couldn't be done. He embodies the spirit of the man he wrote about.   

      Rafael Gubee 

      On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM, SimonATL <simonatl@...> wr  a man who was luaghed at ote:

       

      I like many books about and by TR. Here are a few and I think it IS important to read TR in his OWN words. That tells you a LOT about him.

      1. The 7 Worlds of TR by Edward Wagenknecht - Excellent summary of TR from so many angles.
      2. Theodore Roosevelt and His Times - Excellent TR & Times
      3. The Republican Roosevelt - Excellent short book on TR's political talents and ultimate failures with the Progressive Party
      4. Brinkley's Wilderness Warrior - Definitive work on both his background in the sciences, naturalism, nature love and conserv
      ationcan 
      5. Theodore Roosevelt - An American Mind - Selected Writings - Shows his amazing diversity as a writer.


      --- In tr-m@..., "John" <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear tr-m group members,
      > What do you consider the top five books ABOUT Theodore Roosevelt you believe any self-proclaimed TR fan must read including multiple volume sets as one book (excluding Morris' three volumes because these clearly would be included in everyone's list)?
      > Plus, what are your top five favorite books WRITTEN by Theodore Roosevelt?
      > Although I own probably 75 books by and about TR, I have the perception that I have NOT read the most essential TR books and want to make sure I have.
      >
      > All the best,
      > John Olsen
      >

    • Linda E. Milano
      Sorry for the delay. My computer was in the shop. I could read and send emails via my phone, but the info I needed to access was on my hard drive. I m afraid
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 8, 2011
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        Sorry for the delay.  My computer was in the shop.  I could read and send emails via my phone, but the info I needed to access was on my hard drive.

         

        I'm afraid I can't find a direct reference to the actual date that TR was notified of Quentin's death, although I searched several chronologies I have.  My feeling is that you should look to Bishop for the correct date, but take the rest of the story from Corinne.  As I said, she was a bit fuzzy on exact dates, but was truthful as far as the story went.  She was devoted to her older brother.

         

        And no, Sir Winston Churchill and TR were not related.

         

        I hate not to be able to gibe you a difinitive answer, but that's the best I can do.

         

        Best,

        Linda Milano

         

        From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
        Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 8:51 PM
        To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [tr-m] Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

         

         

         

        I made a cut and paste error and attributed the wrong excerpt to the opposite person. It is now correct below sorry for the confusing error!!!!

        Your information about Corinne's book is greatly appreciated. The errors you mentioned are sure to be things that TR would want pointed out in the interest of historical accuracy. Perhaps you can help me out clearing up an inconsistency between Corinne’s Book and Bishop’s. The time line between the Saratoga speech and Quentin’s death notification seem to indicate an error. I had thought that Corinne may have been talking about an unofficial notification that could have come July 16, 1918. It seemed unlikely that Corinne was confused about the time line.

         

        ( Bishop’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

         

        On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.

         

        ( Corinne’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

        The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed. 

         

        (Side note: was Churchill related to TR in anyway? {an acquaintance I made believed there was a common ancestor})

         

        (Passage from My Brother Theodore Roosevelt)

        Political events in America were also marching rapidly forward.  Already, wherever one lent a listening ear, the growing murmur rose louder and louder that Theodore Roosevelt was the only candidate to be nominated by the Republican party in 1920.  The men who had parted from him in 1912, the men who had not rallied around him in 1916, were all eagerly ranging themselves on the side of this importunate rumor.  A culminating moment was approaching.  It was the middle of July, and the informal convention of the Republican party in New York State was about to take place at Saratoga.  My eldest son, State Senator Theodore Douglas Robinson, led a number of men in the opposition of the then incumbent of the gubernatorial chair, Charles S.  Whitman.  The hearts of many were strong with desire that my brother himself should be the Republican nominee for the next governor of New York State.  No one knew his attitude on the subject, but he had promised to make the address of the occasion, my son having been appointed to make the request that he should do so.  My husband and I had arranged to meet him in Saratoga, my son having preceded us to Albany to make all the formal arrangements.  The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed.  Of course there was a forlorn hope that this information might not be true, that the gallant boy might perhaps have reached the earth alive and might already be a prisoner in a German camp, but there seemed but little doubt of the truth of the terrible fact.  My son telephoned me the news from Albany before the morning paper could arrive at my country home, and at the same time said to me that he did not feel justified in asking his Uncle Theodore whether he still would come to Saratoga, but that he wanted me to get this information for him if possible.

        My country home in the Mohawk Hills of New York State is many miles from Sagamore Hill on Long Island, and it was difficult to get telephone connection.  My heart was unspeakably sore and heavy at the thought of the terrible sorrow that had come to my sister-in-law and my brother, and I shrank from asking any question concerning any matter except the sad news of the death of Quentin, or imminent danger to him.  My brother himself came to the telephone; the sound of his voice was as if steel had entered into the tone.  As years before he had written me from South Africa in my own great sorrow, he had "grasped the nettle." I asked him whether he would like me to come down at once to Oyster Bay, and his answer was almost harsh in its rapidity: "Of course not I will meet you in Saratoga as arranged.  It is more than ever my duty to be there.  You can come down to New York after the convention." The very tone of his voice made me realize the agony in his heart, but duty was paramount.  The affairs of his State, the affairs of the nation,' needed his counsel, needed his self-control.  His boy had paid the final price of duty; was he, the father who had taught that boy the ideal of service and sacrifice, to shrink in cowardly fashion at the crucial moment?

        The next day I met him in Albany and motored him to Saratoga.  His face was set and grave, but he welcomed my sympathy generously.  Meanwhile, the night before there had been great excitement in Saratoga.  A number of delegates were in favor of renominating Governor Charles S.  Whitman on the Republican ticket, but a large and important group of men, in fact, the largest and most important group in the Republican party of New York State, were extremely anxious that Colonel Roosevelt should allow his name to be brought forward as a candidate for governor.  Elihu Root, William Howard Taft, and many of the weighty "bosses" of the various counties lent all their efforts toward this achievement.  Colonel Roosevelt, on his arrival in Saratoga, took a quiet luncheon with my family, Mrs.  Parsons, and myself, after which we adjourned to the large hall in which the convention was to be held.  I remember before we left him that Mrs.  Parsons suggested the insertion of a sentence in the speech which he was about to make, and his immediate and grateful response to the suggestion.  No one had a more open mind to the helpful suggestion of others.

         

        Zzzzz

        Passage from Theodore Roosevelt in his own words / Bishop)

        eaRly  in July 1918 a movement was started, under the leadership of men who for years had been among Roose­velt's bitterest political enemies, to induce him to con­sent to become the Republican candidate for Governor of New York. The party was in desperate straits at the time. The Governor, who was a Republican and whose administra­tion had been very unpopular, was a candidate for re­election and had such complete control of the party ma­chinery that he was able to dictate his own renomination, unless Roosevelt would consent to enter the primaries against him. The shrewdest politicians of the party were convinced that without Roosevelt's candidacy defeat in the November elections was certain. They called a state con­ference of the party leaders, at Saratoga, since under the primary law there could be no convention, and invited Roosevelt, Root and Taft to deliver addresses before it. Roosevelt consented with the others. On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle. When the news was conveyed to him at Oyster Bay, as he was starting for New York, he said, after taking it to his wife:

        " Quentin's mother and I are very glad that he got to the front and had a chance to render some service to his coun­try and to show the stuff there was in him before his fate befell him."

        He went to the city and when asked if he would go to the conference and make his address, he said: "I must go; it is my duty." He started immediately for Saratoga, and when he appeared in the conference hall, the entire assem­blage arose and gave him a subdued and most impressive greeting. He delivered his address as he had prepared it in advance, and at its close added a passage which, inspired as it clearly was by the affliction that had befallen him, made a profound impression upon his auditors:

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:10 PM

        Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:54 PM

        Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

         

         

        Corinne's book is excellent in its way, but contains many inaccuracies.  For example, TR met Winston Churchill at his sister Bamie's house, not at Corinne's, and not in the year that Corinne said.  Corinne was a poet, and must be allowed poetic license.  It is a good sister's perspective.

        Best,

        Linda Milano

        From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
        Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:46 PM
        To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

         

        I am enjoying seeing all the input about favorite TR books. I have a number of books that I love that I have not seen mentioned so I thought that I would add one more to the list.

        If you have not read the following book you have missed TR from a sisters perspective. There are many stories in this book that I have not seen included in other book. If you wish to read it and can not find a hard copy. You can get an electronic copy at the supplied URL below. If you wish to listen to it in your car or on other devices you can download audio versions of every chapter. I drive 40 minutes to work and have a choice of over 30 books to listen to on my ipod connected to my car sound system.

        MY BROTHER THEODORE  ROOSEVELT BY CORINNE ROOSEVELT ROBINSON
        COPYRIGHT, 1921

        http://www.tramericanpatriot.com/content.php?book_id=10046 (you can launch the entire book at the bottom of this page and copy and paste it to your computer. I also have a program on my computer called textAloud that reads the text while I do my 40 minutes on the tread mill) RJK

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 6:27 PM

        Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

         

        Of course, the Morris trilogy has to head the list.

        Don't forget "The Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt"  by William Harbaugh.  Best one volume bio of TR.  Concise and to the point.  John Gable swore by it.

        There is also a Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt by Stephan Lorant, which is less about the man himself than a thorough background of the era and forces with which TR had to contend.

        Other good ones - Mornings on Horseback by David McCullough.  Takes TR up to the time he married Edith Kermit Carow.  Excellent study about how his family helped to shape the man he was to become.

        Theodore Roosevelt: A Life by Nathan Miller.

        If you want a good vignette of a specific period of TR's life, then Commissioner Roosevelt by H. Paul Jeffers is good.

        BY TR:

        The Rough Riders by Theodore Roosevelt.  There is also a book by the same title by Edward Marshall - a journalist with the campaign who actually was injured during the fighting. More balanced reporting, with a better list of the troops.

        I like looking through TR's Presidential Addresses.  Shows exactly what was on his mind, in his own words.

        As for the Autobiography of Theodore Roosevelt - it was actually cobbled together from a series of articles that TR wrote over the years, and is more significant for what it leaves out than what it includes.

        That's about all I can think of at the moment.

        Best,

        Linda Milano

        From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert G Rafael Guber
        Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 1:01 PM
        To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

         

        I would have to begin (maybe begin is not the right word) with the Morris trilogy. The reason is simple. He gives us a detailed continuous base line of information from which more specific knowledge can be added from other sources based on a reader's interests. He is also the TR of TR authors - a       
        man who was laughed at as a foreign born writer of ad copy who thought he could accomplish something unique and important. "They" told him it couldn't be done. He embodies the spirit of the man he wrote about.   

        Rafael Gubee 

        On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM, SimonATL <simonatl@...> wr  a man who was luaghed at ote:

         

        I like many books about and by TR. Here are a few and I think it IS important to read TR in his OWN words. That tells you a LOT about him.

        1. The 7 Worlds of TR by Edward Wagenknecht - Excellent summary of TR from so many angles.
        2. Theodore Roosevelt and His Times - Excellent TR & Times
        3. The Republican Roosevelt - Excellent short book on TR's political talents and ultimate failures with the Progressive Party
        4. Brinkley's Wilderness Warrior - Definitive work on both his background in the sciences, naturalism, nature love and conserv
        ationcan 
        5. Theodore Roosevelt - An American Mind - Selected Writings - Shows his amazing diversity as a writer.


        --- In tr-m@..., "John" <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear tr-m group members,
        > What do you consider the top five books ABOUT Theodore Roosevelt you believe any self-proclaimed TR fan must read including multiple volume sets as one book (excluding Morris' three volumes because these clearly would be included in everyone's list)?
        > Plus, what are your top five favorite books WRITTEN by Theodore Roosevelt?
        > Although I own probably 75 books by and about TR, I have the perception that I have NOT read the most essential TR books and want to make sure I have.
        >
        > All the best,
        > John Olsen
        >

      • George
        On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____. (The remainder of the message was
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 8, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.

          This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
        • kuniegel@verizon.net
          Many thanks for your reply. I had suspected Churchill was not related but needed another opinion. I have great respect for Corinne Roosevelt Robinson s book
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 8, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Many thanks for your reply. I had suspected Churchill was not related but needed another opinion.
             
            I have great respect for Corinne Roosevelt Robinson's book because of the human insight about the importance of their family life. Plus the stories of the rose, his first public speech, and how she described his life long dedication to the country. She was brilliant and I will definitely give her a pass on time line errors and places where meeting took place. Such things run together after a number of year. She did a great service to the country by leaving her perspective.
             
             I have been concentrating on people that actually knew TR when finding book to put up on the web site I sponsor, http://www.TRAmericanPatriot.com and every book that I have up there now has something unique about TR even though many of the stories are repeated. We have 13 other book waiting and hope to get to most of them in the coming year. I have rejected only one so far because of numerous errors.
             
            I can not quite put the Bishop time line to rest. I believe him to be accurate and believe the confusion is in the use of official notice that came the day of the speech and perhaps a none-official notice the day before. This would explain it but I can not be sure, just yet. It really does not make much difference except if Bishop was wrong, I can not say he was totally accurate. Even if he made an error here on a date or one word his books will be always greatly valued. 
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 1:54 PM
            Subject: RE: [tr-m] Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

             

            Sorry for the delay.  My computer was in the shop.  I could read and send emails via my phone, but the info I needed to access was on my hard drive.

            I'm afraid I can't find a direct reference to the actual date that TR was notified of Quentin's death, although I searched several chronologies I have.  My feeling is that you should look to Bishop for the correct date, but take the rest of the story from Corinne.  As I said, she was a bit fuzzy on exact dates, but was truthful as far as the story went.  She was devoted to her older brother.

            And no, Sir Winston Churchill and TR were not related.

            I hate not to be able to gibe you a difinitive answer, but that's the best I can do.

            Best,

            Linda Milano

            From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
            Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 8:51 PM
            To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [tr-m] Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

             

            I made a cut and paste error and attributed the wrong excerpt to the opposite person. It is now correct below sorry for the confusing error!!!!

            Your information about Corinne's book is greatly appreciated. The errors you mentioned are sure to be things that TR would want pointed out in the interest of historical accuracy. Perhaps you can help me out clearing up an inconsistency between Corinne’s Book and Bishop’s. The time line between the Saratoga speech and Quentin’s death notification seem to indicate an error. I had thought that Corinne may have been talking about an unofficial notification that could have come July 16, 1918. It seemed unlikely that Corinne was confused about the time line.

            ( Bishop’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

            On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.

            ( Corinne’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

            The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed. 

            (Side note: was Churchill related to TR in anyway? {an acquaintance I made believed there was a common ancestor})

            (Passage from My Brother Theodore Roosevelt)

            Political events in America were also marching rapidly forward.  Already, wherever one lent a listening ear, the growing murmur rose louder and louder that Theodore Roosevelt was the only candidate to be nominated by the Republican party in 1920.  The men who had parted from him in 1912, the men who had not rallied around him in 1916, were all eagerly ranging themselves on the side of this importunate rumor.  A culminating moment was approaching.  It was the middle of July, and the informal convention of the Republican party in New York State was about to take place at Saratoga.  My eldest son, State Senator Theodore Douglas Robinson, led a number of men in the opposition of the then incumbent of the gubernatorial chair, Charles S.  Whitman.  The hearts of many were strong with desire that my brother himself should be the Republican nominee for the next governor of New York State.  No one knew his attitude on the subject, but he had promised to make the address of the occasion, my son having been appointed to make the request that he should do so.  My husband and I had arranged to meet him in Saratoga, my son having preceded us to Albany to make all the formal arrangements.  The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed.  Of course there was a forlorn hope that this information might not be true, that the gallant boy might perhaps have reached the earth alive and might already be a prisoner in a German camp, but there seemed but little doubt of the truth of the terrible fact.  My son telephoned me the news from Albany before the morning paper could arrive at my country home, and at the same time said to me that he did not feel justified in asking his Uncle Theodore whether he still would come to Saratoga, but that he wanted me to get this information for him if possible.

            My country home in the Mohawk Hills of New York State is many miles from Sagamore Hill on Long Island, and it was difficult to get telephone connection.  My heart was unspeakably sore and heavy at the thought of the terrible sorrow that had come to my sister-in-law and my brother, and I shrank from asking any question concerning any matter except the sad news of the death of Quentin, or imminent danger to him.  My brother himself came to the telephone; the sound of his voice was as if steel had entered into the tone.  As years before he had written me from South Africa in my own great sorrow, he had "grasped the nettle." I asked him whether he would like me to come down at once to Oyster Bay, and his answer was almost harsh in its rapidity: "Of course not I will meet you in Saratoga as arranged.  It is more than ever my duty to be there.  You can come down to New York after the convention." The very tone of his voice made me realize the agony in his heart, but duty was paramount.  The affairs of his State, the affairs of the nation,' needed his counsel, needed his self-control.  His boy had paid the final price of duty; was he, the father who had taught that boy the ideal of service and sacrifice, to shrink in cowardly fashion at the crucial moment?

            The next day I met him in Albany and motored him to Saratoga.  His face was set and grave, but he welcomed my sympathy generously.  Meanwhile, the night before there had been great excitement in Saratoga.  A number of delegates were in favor of renominating Governor Charles S.  Whitman on the Republican ticket, but a large and important group of men, in fact, the largest and most important group in the Republican party of New York State, were extremely anxious that Colonel Roosevelt should allow his name to be brought forward as a candidate for governor.  Elihu Root, William Howard Taft, and many of the weighty "bosses" of the various counties lent all their efforts toward this achievement.  Colonel Roosevelt, on his arrival in Saratoga, took a quiet luncheon with my family, Mrs.  Parsons, and myself, after which we adjourned to the large hall in which the convention was to be held.  I remember before we left him that Mrs.  Parsons suggested the insertion of a sentence in the speech which he was about to make, and his immediate and grateful response to the suggestion.  No one had a more open mind to the helpful suggestion of others.

            Zzzzz

            Passage from Theodore Roosevelt in his own words / Bishop)

            eaRly  in July 1918 a movement was started, under the leadership of men who for years had been among Roose­velt's bitterest political enemies, to induce him to con­sent to become the Republican candidate for Governor of New York. The party was in desperate straits at the time. The Governor, who was a Republican and whose administra­tion had been very unpopular, was a candidate for re­election and had such complete control of the party ma­chinery that he was able to dictate his own renomination, unless Roosevelt would consent to enter the primaries against him. The shrewdest politicians of the party were convinced that without Roosevelt's candidacy defeat in the November elections was certain. They called a state con­ference of the party leaders, at Saratoga, since under the primary law there could be no convention, and invited Roosevelt, Root and Taft to deliver addresses before it. Roosevelt consented with the others. On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle. When the news was conveyed to him at Oyster Bay, as he was starting for New York, he said, after taking it to his wife:

            " Quentin's mother and I are very glad that he got to the front and had a chance to render some service to his coun­try and to show the stuff there was in him before his fate befell him."

            He went to the city and when asked if he would go to the conference and make his address, he said: "I must go; it is my duty." He started immediately for Saratoga, and when he appeared in the conference hall, the entire assem­blage arose and gave him a subdued and most impressive greeting. He delivered his address as he had prepared it in advance, and at its close added a passage which, inspired as it clearly was by the affliction that had befallen him, made a profound impression upon his auditors:

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:10 PM

            Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

             

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:54 PM

            Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

             

            Corinne's book is excellent in its way, but contains many inaccuracies.  For example, TR met Winston Churchill at his sister Bamie's house, not at Corinne's, and not in the year that Corinne said.  Corinne was a poet, and must be allowed poetic license.  It is a good sister's perspective.

            Best,

            Linda Milano

            From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
            Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:46 PM
            To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

             

            I am enjoying seeing all the input about favorite TR books. I have a number of books that I love that I have not seen mentioned so I thought that I would add one more to the list.

            If you have not read the following book you have missed TR from a sisters perspective. There are many stories in this book that I have not seen included in other book. If you wish to read it and can not find a hard copy. You can get an electronic copy at the supplied URL below. If you wish to listen to it in your car or on other devices you can download audio versions of every chapter. I drive 40 minutes to work and have a choice of over 30 books to listen to on my ipod connected to my car sound system.

            MY BROTHER THEODORE  ROOSEVELT BY CORINNE ROOSEVELT ROBINSON
            COPYRIGHT, 1921

            http://www.tramericanpatriot.com/content.php?book_id=10046 (you can launch the entire book at the bottom of this page and copy and paste it to your computer. I also have a program on my computer called textAloud that reads the text while I do my 40 minutes on the tread mill) RJK

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 6:27 PM

            Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

             

            Of course, the Morris trilogy has to head the list.

            Don't forget "The Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt"  by William Harbaugh.  Best one volume bio of TR.  Concise and to the point.  John Gable swore by it.

            There is also a Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt by Stephan Lorant, which is less about the man himself than a thorough background of the era and forces with which TR had to contend.

            Other good ones - Mornings on Horseback by David McCullough.  Takes TR up to the time he married Edith Kermit Carow.  Excellent study about how his family helped to shape the man he was to become.

            Theodore Roosevelt: A Life by Nathan Miller.

            If you want a good vignette of a specific period of TR's life, then Commissioner Roosevelt by H. Paul Jeffers is good.

            BY TR:

            The Rough Riders by Theodore Roosevelt.  There is also a book by the same title by Edward Marshall - a journalist with the campaign who actually was injured during the fighting. More balanced reporting, with a better list of the troops.

            I like looking through TR's Presidential Addresses.  Shows exactly what was on his mind, in his own words.

            As for the Autobiography of Theodore Roosevelt - it was actually cobbled together from a series of articles that TR wrote over the years, and is more significant for what it leaves out than what it includes.

            That's about all I can think of at the moment.

            Best,

            Linda Milano

            From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert G Rafael Guber
            Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 1:01 PM
            To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

             

            I would have to begin (maybe begin is not the right word) with the Morris trilogy. The reason is simple. He gives us a detailed continuous base line of information from which more specific knowledge can be added from other sources based on a reader's interests. He is also the TR of TR authors - a       
            man who was laughed at as a foreign born writer of ad copy who thought he could accomplish something unique and important. "They" told him it couldn't be done. He embodies the spirit of the man he wrote about.   

            Rafael Gubee 

            On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM, SimonATL <simonatl@...> wr  a man who was luaghed at ote:

             

            I like many books about and by TR. Here are a few and I think it IS important to read TR in his OWN words. That tells you a LOT about him.

            1. The 7 Worlds of TR by Edward Wagenknecht - Excellent summary of TR from so many angles.
            2. Theodore Roosevelt and His Times - Excellent TR & Times
            3. The Republican Roosevelt - Excellent short book on TR's political talents and ultimate failures with the Progressive Party
            4. Brinkley's Wilderness Warrior - Definitive work on both his background in the sciences, naturalism, nature love and conserv
            ationcan 
            5. Theodore Roosevelt - An American Mind - Selected Writings - Shows his amazing diversity as a writer.


            --- In tr-m@..., "John" <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear tr-m group members,
            > What do you consider the top five books ABOUT Theodore Roosevelt you believe any self-proclaimed TR fan must read including multiple volume sets as one book (excluding Morris' three volumes because these clearly would be included in everyone's list)?
            > Plus, what are your top five favorite books WRITTEN by Theodore Roosevelt?
            > Although I own probably 75 books by and about TR, I have the perception that I have NOT read the most essential TR books and want to make sure I have.
            >
            > All the best,
            > John Olsen
            >

          • kuniegel@verizon.net
            Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt s book a number of years ago and the passage you
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
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              Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt’s book a number of years ago and the passage you quote now rings a bell. I would like to read the trilogy someday but I fear that I would become confused about if I read things in the books that I have on the web site (which are out of copy write) and start searching for material, which is included in more modern books. Father time has a way of creeping up on ones ability to recollect. Archibald Butt’s book is still copy write protected so I did not purchase it for web site production.
               
              My hope is that I can sell people on a Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library where perhaps other books could be included with  usage privileges for searches (this would even spur hard copy sales of books). The possibilities are vast. If any ex-president should have a Presidential Library TR should, for all the obvious reasons to anyone that has studied him.
               

              On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.

              This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.

               

              (Bishop) 

              On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.

               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: George
              Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM
              Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

               

              On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.

              This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.

            • Linda E. Milano
              Thank you. From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
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                Thank you.

                 

                From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
                Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM
                To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

                 

                 

                On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.

                This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.

              • Linda E. Milano
                For another personal perspective, take a look at Theodore Roosevelt: A Hero to his Valet by James Amos. Amos was a long time employee of TR, and was at
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
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                  For another personal perspective, take a look at "Theodore Roosevelt: A Hero to his Valet" by James Amos.  Amos was a long time employee of TR, and was at Sagamore Hill the day he died.  The title comes from the saying "no man is a hero to his valet" and not because that was his job title.

                   

                  Best,

                  Linda Milano

                   

                   

                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
                  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 11:33 PM
                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tr-m] Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

                   

                   

                  Many thanks for your reply. I had suspected Churchill was not related but needed another opinion.

                   

                  I have great respect for Corinne Roosevelt Robinson's book because of the human insight about the importance of their family life. Plus the stories of the rose, his first public speech, and how she described his life long dedication to the country. She was brilliant and I will definitely give her a pass on time line errors and places where meeting took place. Such things run together after a number of year. She did a great service to the country by leaving her perspective.

                   

                   I have been concentrating on people that actually knew TR when finding book to put up on the web site I sponsor, http://www.TRAmericanPatriot.com and every book that I have up there now has something unique about TR even though many of the stories are repeated. We have 13 other book waiting and hope to get to most of them in the coming year. I have rejected only one so far because of numerous errors.

                   

                  I can not quite put the Bishop time line to rest. I believe him to be accurate and believe the confusion is in the use of official notice that came the day of the speech and perhaps a none-official notice the day before. This would explain it but I can not be sure, just yet. It really does not make much difference except if Bishop was wrong, I can not say he was totally accurate. Even if he made an error here on a date or one word his books will be always greatly valued. 

                   

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 1:54 PM

                  Subject: RE: [tr-m] Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

                   

                   

                  Sorry for the delay.  My computer was in the shop.  I could read and send emails via my phone, but the info I needed to access was on my hard drive.

                  I'm afraid I can't find a direct reference to the actual date that TR was notified of Quentin's death, although I searched several chronologies I have.  My feeling is that you should look to Bishop for the correct date, but take the rest of the story from Corinne.  As I said, she was a bit fuzzy on exact dates, but was truthful as far as the story went.  She was devoted to her older brother.

                  And no, Sir Winston Churchill and TR were not related.

                  I hate not to be able to gibe you a difinitive answer, but that's the best I can do.

                  Best,

                  Linda Milano

                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 8:51 PM
                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [tr-m] Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

                   

                  I made a cut and paste error and attributed the wrong excerpt to the opposite person. It is now correct below sorry for the confusing error!!!!

                  Your information about Corinne's book is greatly appreciated. The errors you mentioned are sure to be things that TR would want pointed out in the interest of historical accuracy. Perhaps you can help me out clearing up an inconsistency between Corinne’s Book and Bishop’s. The time line between the Saratoga speech and Quentin’s death notification seem to indicate an error. I had thought that Corinne may have been talking about an unofficial notification that could have come July 16, 1918. It seemed unlikely that Corinne was confused about the time line.

                  ( Bishop’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

                  On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.

                  ( Corinne’s excerpt in question {full contest of the citation  is included further down})

                  The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed. 

                  (Side note: was Churchill related to TR in anyway? {an acquaintance I made believed there was a common ancestor})

                  (Passage from My Brother Theodore Roosevelt)

                  Political events in America were also marching rapidly forward.  Already, wherever one lent a listening ear, the growing murmur rose louder and louder that Theodore Roosevelt was the only candidate to be nominated by the Republican party in 1920.  The men who had parted from him in 1912, the men who had not rallied around him in 1916, were all eagerly ranging themselves on the side of this importunate rumor.  A culminating moment was approaching.  It was the middle of July, and the informal convention of the Republican party in New York State was about to take place at Saratoga.  My eldest son, State Senator Theodore Douglas Robinson, led a number of men in the opposition of the then incumbent of the gubernatorial chair, Charles S.  Whitman.  The hearts of many were strong with desire that my brother himself should be the Republican nominee for the next governor of New York State.  No one knew his attitude on the subject, but he had promised to make the address of the occasion, my son having been appointed to make the request that he should do so.  My husband and I had arranged to meet him in Saratoga, my son having preceded us to Albany to make all the formal arrangements.  The day before the convention was to take place the terrible news came that Quentin was killed.  Of course there was a forlorn hope that this information might not be true, that the gallant boy might perhaps have reached the earth alive and might already be a prisoner in a German camp, but there seemed but little doubt of the truth of the terrible fact.  My son telephoned me the news from Albany before the morning paper could arrive at my country home, and at the same time said to me that he did not feel justified in asking his Uncle Theodore whether he still would come to Saratoga, but that he wanted me to get this information for him if possible.

                  My country home in the Mohawk Hills of New York State is many miles from Sagamore Hill on Long Island, and it was difficult to get telephone connection.  My heart was unspeakably sore and heavy at the thought of the terrible sorrow that had come to my sister-in-law and my brother, and I shrank from asking any question concerning any matter except the sad news of the death of Quentin, or imminent danger to him.  My brother himself came to the telephone; the sound of his voice was as if steel had entered into the tone.  As years before he had written me from South Africa in my own great sorrow, he had "grasped the nettle." I asked him whether he would like me to come down at once to Oyster Bay, and his answer was almost harsh in its rapidity: "Of course not I will meet you in Saratoga as arranged.  It is more than ever my duty to be there.  You can come down to New York after the convention." The very tone of his voice made me realize the agony in his heart, but duty was paramount.  The affairs of his State, the affairs of the nation,' needed his counsel, needed his self-control.  His boy had paid the final price of duty; was he, the father who had taught that boy the ideal of service and sacrifice, to shrink in cowardly fashion at the crucial moment?

                  The next day I met him in Albany and motored him to Saratoga.  His face was set and grave, but he welcomed my sympathy generously.  Meanwhile, the night before there had been great excitement in Saratoga.  A number of delegates were in favor of renominating Governor Charles S.  Whitman on the Republican ticket, but a large and important group of men, in fact, the largest and most important group in the Republican party of New York State, were extremely anxious that Colonel Roosevelt should allow his name to be brought forward as a candidate for governor.  Elihu Root, William Howard Taft, and many of the weighty "bosses" of the various counties lent all their efforts toward this achievement.  Colonel Roosevelt, on his arrival in Saratoga, took a quiet luncheon with my family, Mrs.  Parsons, and myself, after which we adjourned to the large hall in which the convention was to be held.  I remember before we left him that Mrs.  Parsons suggested the insertion of a sentence in the speech which he was about to make, and his immediate and grateful response to the suggestion.  No one had a more open mind to the helpful suggestion of others.

                  Zzzzz

                  Passage from Theodore Roosevelt in his own words / Bishop)

                  eaRly  in July 1918 a movement was started, under the leadership of men who for years had been among Roose­velt's bitterest political enemies, to induce him to con­sent to become the Republican candidate for Governor of New York. The party was in desperate straits at the time. The Governor, who was a Republican and whose administra­tion had been very unpopular, was a candidate for re­election and had such complete control of the party ma­chinery that he was able to dictate his own renomination, unless Roosevelt would consent to enter the primaries against him. The shrewdest politicians of the party were convinced that without Roosevelt's candidacy defeat in the November elections was certain. They called a state con­ference of the party leaders, at Saratoga, since under the primary law there could be no convention, and invited Roosevelt, Root and Taft to deliver addresses before it. Roosevelt consented with the others. On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle. When the news was conveyed to him at Oyster Bay, as he was starting for New York, he said, after taking it to his wife:

                  " Quentin's mother and I are very glad that he got to the front and had a chance to render some service to his coun­try and to show the stuff there was in him before his fate befell him."

                  He went to the city and when asked if he would go to the conference and make his address, he said: "I must go; it is my duty." He started immediately for Saratoga, and when he appeared in the conference hall, the entire assem­blage arose and gave him a subdued and most impressive greeting. He delivered his address as he had prepared it in advance, and at its close added a passage which, inspired as it clearly was by the affliction that had befallen him, made a profound impression upon his auditors:

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:10 PM

                  Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:54 PM

                  Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

                   

                  Corinne's book is excellent in its way, but contains many inaccuracies.  For example, TR met Winston Churchill at his sister Bamie's house, not at Corinne's, and not in the year that Corinne said.  Corinne was a poet, and must be allowed poetic license.  It is a good sister's perspective.

                  Best,

                  Linda Milano

                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
                  Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:46 PM
                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

                   

                  I am enjoying seeing all the input about favorite TR books. I have a number of books that I love that I have not seen mentioned so I thought that I would add one more to the list.

                  If you have not read the following book you have missed TR from a sisters perspective. There are many stories in this book that I have not seen included in other book. If you wish to read it and can not find a hard copy. You can get an electronic copy at the supplied URL below. If you wish to listen to it in your car or on other devices you can download audio versions of every chapter. I drive 40 minutes to work and have a choice of over 30 books to listen to on my ipod connected to my car sound system.

                  MY BROTHER THEODORE  ROOSEVELT BY CORINNE ROOSEVELT ROBINSON
                  COPYRIGHT, 1921

                  http://www.tramericanpatriot.com/content.php?book_id=10046 (you can launch the entire book at the bottom of this page and copy and paste it to your computer. I also have a program on my computer called textAloud that reads the text while I do my 40 minutes on the tread mill) RJK

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 6:27 PM

                  Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

                   

                  Of course, the Morris trilogy has to head the list.

                  Don't forget "The Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt"  by William Harbaugh.  Best one volume bio of TR.  Concise and to the point.  John Gable swore by it.

                  There is also a Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt by Stephan Lorant, which is less about the man himself than a thorough background of the era and forces with which TR had to contend.

                  Other good ones - Mornings on Horseback by David McCullough.  Takes TR up to the time he married Edith Kermit Carow.  Excellent study about how his family helped to shape the man he was to become.

                  Theodore Roosevelt: A Life by Nathan Miller.

                  If you want a good vignette of a specific period of TR's life, then Commissioner Roosevelt by H. Paul Jeffers is good.

                  BY TR:

                  The Rough Riders by Theodore Roosevelt.  There is also a book by the same title by Edward Marshall - a journalist with the campaign who actually was injured during the fighting. More balanced reporting, with a better list of the troops.

                  I like looking through TR's Presidential Addresses.  Shows exactly what was on his mind, in his own words.

                  As for the Autobiography of Theodore Roosevelt - it was actually cobbled together from a series of articles that TR wrote over the years, and is more significant for what it leaves out than what it includes.

                  That's about all I can think of at the moment.

                  Best,

                  Linda Milano

                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert G Rafael Guber
                  Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 1:01 PM
                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: What are the top five must read books about Theodore Roosevelt?

                   

                  I would have to begin (maybe begin is not the right word) with the Morris trilogy. The reason is simple. He gives us a detailed continuous base line of information from which more specific knowledge can be added from other sources based on a reader's interests. He is also the TR of TR authors - a       
                  man who was laughed at as a foreign born writer of ad copy who thought he could accomplish something unique and important. "They" told him it couldn't be done. He embodies the spirit of the man he wrote about.   

                  Rafael Gubee 

                  On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM, SimonATL <simonatl@...> wr  a man who was luaghed at ote:

                   

                  I like many books about and by TR. Here are a few and I think it IS important to read TR in his OWN words. That tells you a LOT about him.

                  1. The 7 Worlds of TR by Edward Wagenknecht - Excellent summary of TR from so many angles.
                  2. Theodore Roosevelt and His Times - Excellent TR & Times
                  3. The Republican Roosevelt - Excellent short book on TR's political talents and ultimate failures with the Progressive Party
                  4. Brinkley's Wilderness Warrior - Definitive work on both his background in the sciences, naturalism, nature love and conserv
                  ationcan 
                  5. Theodore Roosevelt - An American Mind - Selected Writings - Shows his amazing diversity as a writer.


                  --- In tr-m@..., "John" <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear tr-m group members,
                  > What do you consider the top five books ABOUT Theodore Roosevelt you believe any self-proclaimed TR fan must read including multiple volume sets as one book (excluding Morris' three volumes because these clearly would be included in everyone's list)?
                  > Plus, what are your top five favorite books WRITTEN by Theodore Roosevelt?
                  > Although I own probably 75 books by and about TR, I have the perception that I have NOT read the most essential TR books and want to make sure I have.
                  >
                  > All the best,
                  > John Olsen
                  >

                • SimonATL
                  Kuniegel The Theodore Roosevelt Association seriously looked into the idea of a TR Presidential Libary, but decided against going ahead with the project. I
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Kuniegel

                    The Theodore Roosevelt Association seriously looked into the idea of a TR Presidential Libary, but decided against going ahead with the project.

                    I think the proposed location, Oyster Bay was way too out of the way for public access. I agree that it would be a great idea. I think the best place for that library would either be down near his birthplace in Manhattan or in DC near the Mall area as would be a monument. The current monument on Roosevelt Island near DC, while wonderful is just not visible to the public visiting DC.

                    I visited DC a hundred times while in the US Marine Corps but never even heard of Roosevelt Island, myself.

                    Keith




                    --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, <kuniegel@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt's book a number of years ago and the passage you quote now rings a bell. I would like to read the trilogy someday but I fear that I would become confused about if I read things in the books that I have on the web site (which are out of copy write) and start searching for material, which is included in more modern books. Father time has a way of creeping up on ones ability to recollect. Archibald Butt's book is still copy write protected so I did not purchase it for web site production.
                    >
                    > My hope is that I can sell people on a Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library where perhaps other books could be included with usage privileges for searches (this would even spur hard copy sales of books). The possibilities are vast. If any ex-president should have a Presidential Library TR should, for all the obvious reasons to anyone that has studied him.
                    >
                    > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                    >
                    > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > (Bishop)
                    >
                    > On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: George
                    > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM
                    > Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                    >
                    > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                    >
                  • Linda E. Milano
                    Actually, there were plans to form a TR Presidential Library. It was under consideration by the Roosevelt Memorial Association (RMA - later renamed the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Actually, there were plans to form a TR Presidential Library.  It was under consideration by the Roosevelt Memorial Association (RMA - later renamed the Theodore Roosevelt Association when it merged with the Womens Roosevelt Memorial Association - WRMA).  The original plan was to turn Sagamore Hill into a presidential library.  However, Edith Kermit Roosevelt refused to move - she said it was still her home.  The RMA continued to collected books, letters,  photos, ephemera, etc. in hopes that they would be able to found the library some day.  In the meantime, the WRMA rebuilt TR's birthplace in Manhattan.  Many people donated things there, and their museum rooms have a wonderful collection.  In the 1940s, while Edith was still residing at Sagamore Hill, the RMA gave their collection to the Houghton Library at Harvard so that people would have access.  About 12 years ago, I gave some representatives of the National Archives a tour of Sagamore Hill.  They questioned why TR didn't have a presidential library of his own.  I told them the same thing.

                       

                      Best,

                      Linda

                       

                      From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuniegel@...
                      Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:33 AM
                      To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

                       

                       

                      Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt’s book a number of years ago and the passage you quote now rings a bell. I would like to read the trilogy someday but I fear that I would become confused about if I read things in the books that I have on the web site (which are out of copy write) and start searching for material, which is included in more modern books. Father time has a way of creeping up on ones ability to recollect. Archibald Butt’s book is still copy write protected so I did not purchase it for web site production.

                       

                      My hope is that I can sell people on a Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library where perhaps other books could be included with  usage privileges for searches (this would even spur hard copy sales of books). The possibilities are vast. If any ex-president should have a Presidential Library TR should, for all the obvious reasons to anyone that has studied him.

                       

                      On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.

                      This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.

                       

                      (Bishop) 

                      On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.

                       

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: George

                      Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM

                      Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error

                       

                       

                      On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.

                      This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.

                    • Linda E. Milano
                      Actually, when TR died there was also a push to build a TR monument in the Mall in DC. The area set aside was used for the Jefferson Memorial instead. So the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Actually, when TR died there was also a push to build a TR monument in the Mall in DC.  The area set aside was used for the Jefferson Memorial instead.  So the RMA bought Analostan Island and renamed it Roosevelt Island.

                         

                        The problem with creating a TR Presidential Library at this point is that most of the books, etc. are at Harvard, the Birthpace, Sagamore Hill, and Dickinson State University.  The TRA still owns some of the items at Harvard and Sagamore Hill, and there are a few things at Sagamore Hill that still belong to family members…

                         

                        Best,

                        Linda

                         

                        From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SimonATL
                        Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:52 PM
                        To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [tr-m] Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Question...

                         

                         

                        Kuniegel

                        The Theodore Roosevelt Association seriously looked into the idea of a TR Presidential Libary, but decided against going ahead with the project.

                        I think the proposed location, Oyster Bay was way too out of the way for public access. I agree that it would be a great idea. I think the best place for that library would either be down near his birthplace in Manhattan or in DC near the Mall area as would be a monument. The current monument on Roosevelt Island near DC, while wonderful is just not visible to the public visiting DC.

                        I visited DC a hundred times while in the US Marine Corps but never even heard of Roosevelt Island, myself.

                        Keith

                        --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, <kuniegel@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt's book a number of years ago and the passage you quote now rings a bell. I would like to read the trilogy someday but I fear that I would become confused about if I read things in the books that I have on the web site (which are out of copy write) and start searching for material, which is included in more modern books. Father time has a way of creeping up on ones ability to recollect. Archibald Butt's book is still copy write protected so I did not purchase it for web site production.
                        >
                        > My hope is that I can sell people on a Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library where perhaps other books could be included with usage privileges for searches (this would even spur hard copy sales of books). The possibilities are vast. If any ex-president should have a Presidential Library TR should, for all the obvious reasons to anyone that has studied him.
                        >
                        > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                        >
                        > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > (Bishop)
                        >
                        > On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: George
                        > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM
                        > Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                        >
                        > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                        >

                      • kuniegel@verizon.net
                        Perhaps the idea has been considered looking at how libraries have been constructed in the past. One could put everything TR wrote, everything which is in his
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Perhaps the idea has been considered looking at how libraries have been constructed in the past. One could put everything TR wrote, everything which is in his personal library, all the books out of copyright that have been written about him, everything he read that is not in his personal collection on a hard drive and place it just about anywhere. I do not believe he was big on marble and stone monuments he was more interested in practical application.  The dawn of the Information Age is upon us and anyone that would wish to read one of his books would have an opportunity through the use of the Internet. I am a dreamer, but I never had a larger dream of something that could be done, which needs to be done. It would take some great minds to lay the groundwork and some average people with an interest to make it happen. I am an average person without the ability to make it happen but perhaps my ability is merely to plant the seed. I truly believe that TR's greatest gift to this country could be in the future if new generations are introduced to how he accomplished so much using honesty.
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: SimonATL
                          Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:51 PM
                          Subject: [tr-m] Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Question...

                           

                          Kuniegel

                          The Theodore Roosevelt Association seriously looked into the idea of a TR Presidential Libary, but decided against going ahead with the project.

                          I think the proposed location, Oyster Bay was way too out of the way for public access. I agree that it would be a great idea. I think the best place for that library would either be down near his birthplace in Manhattan or in DC near the Mall area as would be a monument. The current monument on Roosevelt Island near DC, while wonderful is just not visible to the public visiting DC.

                          I visited DC a hundred times while in the US Marine Corps but never even heard of Roosevelt Island, myself.

                          Keith

                          --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, <kuniegel@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt's book a number of years ago and the passage you quote now rings a bell. I would like to read the trilogy someday but I fear that I would become confused about if I read things in the books that I have on the web site (which are out of copy write) and start searching for material, which is included in more modern books. Father time has a way of creeping up on ones ability to recollect. Archibald Butt's book is still copy write protected so I did not purchase it for web site production.
                          >
                          > My hope is that I can sell people on a Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library where perhaps other books could be included with usage privileges for searches (this would even spur hard copy sales of books). The possibilities are vast. If any ex-president should have a Presidential Library TR should, for all the obvious reasons to anyone that has studied him.
                          >
                          > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                          >
                          > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > (Bishop)
                          >
                          > On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: George
                          > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM
                          > Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                          >
                          > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                          >

                        • Linda E. Milano
                          Harvard is digitizing a lot of what they have. Dickinson State University is doing a big digitization project on items they got from the TRA. When Edith
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 10, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Harvard is digitizing a lot of what they have.  Dickinson State University is doing a big digitization project on items they got from the TRA.

                            When Edith Roosevelt died, she assigned the copyright for all his books to the TRA. Those copyrights have been expiring.

                            There is a lot on line right now. Most of his presidential correspondence is at the National Archives in Washington.  Having better access to that would only be throw through a physical presidential library.

                            Linda

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Dec 9, 2011, at 11:16 PM, <kuniegel@...> wrote:

                             

                            Perhaps the idea has been considered looking at how libraries have been constructed in the past. One could put everything TR wrote, everything which is in his personal library, all the books out of copyright that have been written about him, everything he read that is not in his personal collection on a hard drive and place it just about anywhere. I do not believe he was big on marble and stone monuments he was more interested in practical application.  The dawn of the Information Age is upon us and anyone that would wish to read one of his books would have an opportunity through the use of the Internet. I am a dreamer, but I never had a larger dream of something that could be done, which needs to be done. It would take some great minds to lay the groundwork and some average people with an interest to make it happen. I am an average person without the ability to make it happen but perhaps my ability is merely to plant the seed. I truly believe that TR's greatest gift to this country could be in the future if new generations are introduced to how he accomplished so much using honesty.
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: SimonATL
                            Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:51 PM
                            Subject: [tr-m] Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Question...

                             

                            Kuniegel

                            The Theodore Roosevelt Association seriously looked into the idea of a TR Presidential Libary, but decided against going ahead with the project.

                            I think the proposed location, Oyster Bay was way too out of the way for public access. I agree that it would be a great idea. I think the best place for that library would either be down near his birthplace in Manhattan or in DC near the Mall area as would be a monument. The current monument on Roosevelt Island near DC, while wonderful is just not visible to the public visiting DC.

                            I visited DC a hundred times while in the US Marine Corps but never even heard of Roosevelt Island, myself.

                            Keith

                            --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, <kuniegel@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt's book a number of years ago and the passage you quote now rings a bell. I would like to read the trilogy someday but I fear that I would become confused about if I read things in the books that I have on the web site (which are out of copy write) and start searching for material, which is included in more modern books. Father time has a way of creeping up on ones ability to recollect. Archibald Butt's book is still copy write protected so I did not purchase it for web site production.
                            >
                            > My hope is that I can sell people on a Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library where perhaps other books could be included with usage privileges for searches (this would even spur hard copy sales of books). The possibilities are vast. If any ex-president should have a Presidential Library TR should, for all the obvious reasons to anyone that has studied him.
                            >
                            > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                            >
                            > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > (Bishop)
                            >
                            > On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: George
                            > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM
                            > Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                            >
                            > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                            >

                          • kuniegel@verizon.net
                            I only wish I had TR s ability to explain the benefit to average Junior High School students & public at large that the undertaking of making these
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 11, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment

                              I only wish I had TR's ability to explain the benefit to average Junior High School students & public at large that the undertaking of making these digitization’s that are scatter about in various places user friendly. Plus have them located on one web site. I will continue to add books to my TRAmericanPatriot.com library in user-friendly formats with the hope that perhaps someday someone of influence will notice the concept that can make it possible to put TR in homes across the country. Unfortunately people are only attracted to things when they have a buzz quality. Excuse the salon lingo that is an industry that I have been involved in for almost 30 years. How to create a buzz about something new is key to success in the salon industry. You can always have a big advertisement campaign but the best buzz creation needs to foster word of mouth advertisement. In my next book description for "The Last of the Mohicans" I make a more reasoned case for what I am seeking. It may be that I am wrong, my other hero Socrates, says we should never be so sure of anything that we close our minds. I respect your position and know that you are dedicated to TRA. Any persistence on my part to promote the user-friendly concept and public involvement I hope will not be viewed as disrespect. Being a student of Socrates (who many do not understand today) I sort of do what Theodore Roosevelt III says his father does.

                               

                              “Toward the winter of 1917 father talked ever increasingly to all of us concerning his chance of being permitted to take a division or unit of some sort to Europe.  When war was declared he took this matter up directly with the President.  What happened is now history.  He took his disappointment as he took many other disappointments in his life.  Often after he had worked with all that was in him for something, when all that could be done was done, he would say, "We have done all we can; the result is now on the knees of the gods."”

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 11:41 AM
                              Subject: Re: [tr-m] Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Question...

                               

                              Harvard is digitizing a lot of what they have.  Dickinson State University is doing a big digitization project on items they got from the TRA.

                              When Edith Roosevelt died, she assigned the copyright for all his books to the TRA. Those copyrights have been expiring.

                              There is a lot on line right now. Most of his presidential correspondence is at the National Archives in Washington.  Having better access to that would only be throw through a physical presidential library.

                              Linda

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Dec 9, 2011, at 11:16 PM, <kuniegel@...> wrote:

                               

                              Perhaps the idea has been considered looking at how libraries have been constructed in the past. One could put everything TR wrote, everything which is in his personal library, all the books out of copyright that have been written about him, everything he read that is not in his personal collection on a hard drive and place it just about anywhere. I do not believe he was big on marble and stone monuments he was more interested in practical application.  The dawn of the Information Age is upon us and anyone that would wish to read one of his books would have an opportunity through the use of the Internet. I am a dreamer, but I never had a larger dream of something that could be done, which needs to be done. It would take some great minds to lay the groundwork and some average people with an interest to make it happen. I am an average person without the ability to make it happen but perhaps my ability is merely to plant the seed. I truly believe that TR's greatest gift to this country could be in the future if new generations are introduced to how he accomplished so much using honesty.
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: SimonATL
                              Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:51 PM
                              Subject: [tr-m] Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Question...

                               

                              Kuniegel

                              The Theodore Roosevelt Association seriously looked into the idea of a TR Presidential Libary, but decided against going ahead with the project.

                              I think the proposed location, Oyster Bay was way too out of the way for public access. I agree that it would be a great idea. I think the best place for that library would either be down near his birthplace in Manhattan or in DC near the Mall area as would be a monument. The current monument on Roosevelt Island near DC, while wonderful is just not visible to the public visiting DC.

                              I visited DC a hundred times while in the US Marine Corps but never even heard of Roosevelt Island, myself.

                              Keith

                              --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, <kuniegel@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Many thanks, this nails it, Bishop stays completely accurate from my perspective. I did read Archibald Butt's book a number of years ago and the passage you quote now rings a bell. I would like to read the trilogy someday but I fear that I would become confused about if I read things in the books that I have on the web site (which are out of copy write) and start searching for material, which is included in more modern books. Father time has a way of creeping up on ones ability to recollect. Archibald Butt's book is still copy write protected so I did not purchase it for web site production.
                              >
                              > My hope is that I can sell people on a Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library where perhaps other books could be included with usage privileges for searches (this would even spur hard copy sales of books). The possibilities are vast. If any ex-president should have a Presidential Library TR should, for all the obvious reasons to anyone that has studied him.
                              >
                              > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                              >
                              > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > (Bishop)
                              >
                              > On the morning of the day, July 17, 1918, on which he was to make his address, word reached him that his son Quentin, an aviator in the army at the front in France, had been killed in an aerial battle.
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: George
                              > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:23 PM
                              > Subject: [tr-m] Re: Bishop / Corinne question re-stated error
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On the night of July 16, 1918 TR learned of a press cable instructing reporters to "Watch Sagamore Hill in event of ____." (The remainder of the message was censored by wartime censors.) TR had an ominous foreboding that the message concerned Quentin, and his presentiment was confirmed the following day when a dispatch from Paris announced Quentin's death three days earlier.
                              >
                              > This information comes from volume 3 of my trilogy "'Archie': The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic.
                              >

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