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Re: [tr-m] Researching TR's relationship with Kaiser Wilhelm - Appreciate any info

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  • Garry Austin
    You are probably already aware of these references but if not they may be helpful and/or may lead you to other sources. Fromkin, David. THE KING AND THE
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 24, 2010
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      You are probably already aware of these references but if not they may be helpful and/or may lead you to other sources.


      Fromkin, David. THE KING AND THE COWBOY; THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND EDWARD THE SEVENTH, SECRET PARTNERS. New York: Penguin Press, 2008.  I thought this should have been a very good journal article, as a book it didn’t quite flesh out enough for me. There are a number of references to the Kaiser though. 


      At Sagamore Hill, as I remember it, there is on the second floor a framed piece. It lists in graphic fashion the Naval strength of the U. S. Navy. It was a gift to TR from the Kaiser. It is notable for it lists a ship that had not yet been built. This is apparently the Kaiser’s way of letting TR know he had his eye on him.

      Also in the North Room, there resides the collection of photographs given to TR by the Kaiser after TR reviewed the German Troops as a guest of Wilhelm. These had manuscript notations on the versos, some of which were controversial. German diplomatic efforts were made to retrieve these, but were obviously unsuccessful.


      TR’s WWI books; Fear God; World War I; Great Adventure; Foes of Our Household; will all be helpful.


      And always the Elting Morison; Letters of Theodore Roosevelt. A cornerstone for any research.  


      As a second piece also these Two volumes; 

      Roosevelt, Theodore and Henry Cabot Lodge. SELECTIONS FROM THE CORRESPONDENCE OF THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND HENRY CABOT LODGE 1884-1918. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1925. First edition. Two volumes. 

      In my opinion an invaluable resource. The letters between these two friends are remarkable.


      Both Baron Speck Von Sternberg, & J. J. Jusserand, the German & French Ambassadors respectively were members of the Tennis Cabinet and maintained great friendships with TR. 

      Jusserand, J. J. WHAT ME BEFELL; THE REMINISCENCES OF J. J. JUSSERAND. Boston: Houghton, Mifflin Company, 1933. 

      and;

      Jusserand, J. J. WITH AMERICANS OF PAST AND PRESENT DAYS. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1916. 


      I have never seen a memoir by “Speck” but it must exist.



      I hope this helps, best of luck.

      Garry R. Austin



      From: SimonATL <simonatl@...>
      To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 10:44:24 AM
      Subject: [tr-m] Researching TR's relationship with Kaiser Wilhelm - Appreciate any info

       

      All

      I am doing some research for a master's thesis on TR's relationship with Germany's last Kaiser, Wilhelm and would appreciate any source docs, leads, annectdotes you might be aware of. I've boned up on "Bill the Kaiser" as TR and his Secretary of State sometimes amusingly called Wilhelm. SUCH a tragic life - that Kaiser just had a terrible time preventing one German internal as well as external disaster after another.

      Post here on general thoughts on TR & the Kaiser or email me at SimonAmerica@... with any detailed insights source docs, ect.

      I would also be interested in German language source materials as well.

      Sources on the Kaiser & TR
      TR letters - correspondence
      TR Bios - Latest Morris bio has some interesting info
      US & German governmental sources
      Past TRA Journal Discussions

      Running down a missing Kaiser Quote:
      I once read a source that said that whenever the Kaiser heard the conversation shift to TR, he would say, "How is my friend, Roosevelt doing?" Can't find that book now but I'm sure I read it 2 years ago.

      Any insights would be appreciated.

      Thanks
      Keith


    • SimonATL
      Gary Thanks SO much for taking the time to reply. I hope to find Specky s memoirs - even if they are in German. Keith simonamerica@gmail.com 360-901-4708
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 24, 2010
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        Gary

        Thanks SO much for taking the time to reply.
        I hope to find "Specky's" memoirs - even if they are in German.

        Keith
        simonamerica@...
        360-901-4708

        --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Garry Austin <garryraustin@...> wrote:
        >
        > You are probably already aware of these references but if not they may be
        > helpful and/or may lead you to other sources.
        >
        > Fromkin, David. THE KING AND THE COWBOY; THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND EDWARD THE
        > SEVENTH, SECRET PARTNERS. New York: Penguin Press, 2008. I thought this should
        > have been a very good journal article, as a book it didn’t quite flesh out
        > enough for me. There are a number of references to the Kaiser though.
        >
        > At Sagamore Hill, as I remember it, there is on the second floor a framed piece.
        > It lists in graphic fashion the Naval strength of the U. S. Navy. It was a gift
        > to TR from the Kaiser. It is notable for it lists a ship that had not yet been
        > built. This is apparently the Kaiser’s way of letting TR know he had his eye on
        > him.
        > Also in the North Room, there resides the collection of photographs given to TR
        > by the Kaiser after TR reviewed the German Troops as a guest of Wilhelm. These
        > had manuscript notations on the versos, some of which were controversial. German
        > diplomatic efforts were made to retrieve these, but were obviously unsuccessful.
        >
        > TR’s WWI books; Fear God; World War I; Great Adventure; Foes of Our Household;
        > will all be helpful.
        >
        > And always the Elting Morison; Letters of Theodore Roosevelt. A cornerstone for
        > any research.
        >
        > As a second piece also these Two volumes;
        > Roosevelt, Theodore and Henry Cabot Lodge. SELECTIONS FROM THE CORRESPONDENCE OF
        > THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND HENRY CABOT LODGE 1884-1918. New York: Charles Scribner's
        > Sons, 1925. First edition. Two volumes.
        > In my opinion an invaluable resource. The letters between these two friends are
        > remarkable.
        >
        > Both Baron Speck Von Sternberg, & J. J. Jusserand, the German & French
        > Ambassadors respectively were members of the Tennis Cabinet and maintained great
        > friendships with TR.
        > Jusserand, J. J. WHAT ME BEFELL; THE REMINISCENCES OF J. J. JUSSERAND. Boston:
        > Houghton, Mifflin Company, 1933.
        > and;
        > Jusserand, J. J. WITH AMERICANS OF PAST AND PRESENT DAYS. New York: Charles
        > Scribner's Sons, 1916.
        >
        > I have never seen a memoir by “Speck” but it must exist.
        >
        >
        > I hope this helps, best of luck.
        > Garry R. Austin
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: SimonATL <simonatl@...>
        > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 10:44:24 AM
        > Subject: [tr-m] Researching TR's relationship with Kaiser Wilhelm - Appreciate
        > any info
        >
        >
        > All
        >
        > I am doing some research for a master's thesis on TR's relationship with
        > Germany's last Kaiser, Wilhelm and would appreciate any source docs, leads,
        > annectdotes you might be aware of. I've boned up on "Bill the Kaiser" as TR and
        > his Secretary of State sometimes amusingly called Wilhelm. SUCH a tragic life -
        > that Kaiser just had a terrible time preventing one German internal as well as
        > external disaster after another.
        >
        > Post here on general thoughts on TR & the Kaiser or email me at
        > SimonAmerica@... with any detailed insights source docs, ect.
        >
        > I would also be interested in German language source materials as well.
        >
        > Sources on the Kaiser & TR
        > TR letters - correspondence
        > TR Bios - Latest Morris bio has some interesting info
        > US & German governmental sources
        > Past TRA Journal Discussions
        >
        > Running down a missing Kaiser Quote:
        > I once read a source that said that whenever the Kaiser heard the conversation
        > shift to TR, he would say, "How is my friend, Roosevelt doing?" Can't find that
        > book now but I'm sure I read it 2 years ago.
        >
        > Any insights would be appreciated.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Keith
        >
      • John Willson
        Keith: Two sources you might find useful. I don t know that they will be helpful or that you may already have searched them, but here goes:    THEODORE
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 25, 2010
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          Keith:
           
          Two sources you might find useful. I don't know that they will be helpful or that you may already have searched them, but here goes:
           
           THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND THE RISE OF AMERICA TO WORLD POWER. Howard K. Beale. Baltimore. Johns Hopkins  Press. 1956. Particularly Chapter VI.
           
           THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND  THE INTERNATIONAL RIVALRIES. Raymond A. Esthus. Claremont, CA. Regina Books. 1970.
           
          Good luck with your research.
           
          John Willson
           
           

          From: SimonATL <simonatl@...>
          To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 10:44:24 AM
          Subject: [tr-m] Researching TR's relationship with Kaiser Wilhelm - Appreciate any info

           

          All

          I am doing some research for a master's thesis on TR's relationship with Germany's last Kaiser, Wilhelm and would appreciate any source docs, leads, annectdotes you might be aware of. I've boned up on "Bill the Kaiser" as TR and his Secretary of State sometimes amusingly called Wilhelm. SUCH a tragic life - that Kaiser just had a terrible time preventing one German internal as well as external disaster after another.

          Post here on general thoughts on TR & the Kaiser or email me at SimonAmerica@... with any detailed insights source docs, ect.

          I would also be interested in German language source materials as well.

          Sources on the Kaiser & TR
          TR letters - correspondence
          TR Bios - Latest Morris bio has some interesting info
          US & German governmental sources
          Past TRA Journal Discussions

          Running down a missing Kaiser Quote:
          I once read a source that said that whenever the Kaiser heard the conversation shift to TR, he would say, "How is my friend, Roosevelt doing?" Can't find that book now but I'm sure I read it 2 years ago.

          Any insights would be appreciated.

          Thanks
          Keith

        • SimonATL
          John Thanks for your suggestions. I have read and taken detailed notes on the excellent book you mentioned, THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND THE INTERNATIONAL
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 25, 2010
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            John

            Thanks for your suggestions.
            I have read and taken detailed notes on the excellent book you mentioned, "THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND THE INTERNATIONAL RIVALRIES" but have only glimpsed at sections of the other book, "THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND THE RISE OF AMERICA TO WORLD POWER"

            Keith

            --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, John Willson <jjwillsos@...> wrote:
            >
            > Keith:
            >
            > Two sources you might find useful. I don't know that they will be helpful or
            > that you may already have searched them, but here goes:
            >  
            >  THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND THE RISE OF AMERICA TO WORLD POWER. Howard K. Beale.
            > Baltimore. Johns Hopkins  Press. 1956. Particularly Chapter VI.
            >
            >
            >  THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND  THE INTERNATIONAL RIVALRIES. Raymond A. Esthus.
            > Claremont, CA. Regina Books. 1970.
            >
            > Good luck with your research.
            >
            > John Willson
            >
            >  
            >  
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: SimonATL <simonatl@...>
            > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 10:44:24 AM
            > Subject: [tr-m] Researching TR's relationship with Kaiser Wilhelm - Appreciate
            > any info
            >
            > All
            >
            > I am doing some research for a master's thesis on TR's relationship with
            > Germany's last Kaiser, Wilhelm and would appreciate any source docs, leads,
            > annectdotes you might be aware of. I've boned up on "Bill the Kaiser" as TR and
            > his Secretary of State sometimes amusingly called Wilhelm. SUCH a tragic life -
            > that Kaiser just had a terrible time preventing one German internal as well as
            > external disaster after another.
            >
            > Post here on general thoughts on TR & the Kaiser or email me at
            > SimonAmerica@... with any detailed insights source docs, ect.
            >
            > I would also be interested in German language source materials as well.
            >
            > Sources on the Kaiser & TR
            > TR letters - correspondence
            > TR Bios - Latest Morris bio has some interesting info
            > US & German governmental sources
            > Past TRA Journal Discussions
            >
            > Running down a missing Kaiser Quote:
            > I once read a source that said that whenever the Kaiser heard the conversation
            > shift to TR, he would say, "How is my friend, Roosevelt doing?" Can't find that
            > book now but I'm sure I read it 2 years ago.
            >
            > Any insights would be appreciated.
            >
            > Thanks
            > Keith
            >
          • George
            Hi, Keith. ... From that point onward the topics of conversation ran a wide gamut, and Colonel Roosevelt discussed lion hunting, the similarity of the grounds
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 26, 2010
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              Hi, Keith.

              The following quote comes from my book "Archie: The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic." The discussion in question took place during the meeting between Taft and TR that took place at Beverly on June 10, 1910:
              ------------------------------------

              From that point onward the topics of conversation ran a wide gamut, and Colonel Roosevelt discussed lion hunting, the similarity of the grounds of the Summer White House to those of the country estate of Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, his recent experiences in England as the President's representative at the funeral of King Edward, his journey to Oyster Bay through the snowbound countryside on President Taft's inauguration day, and the huge amount of legislation that had been passed during Mr. Taft's administration. "He was in his best vein," Archie recalled, "and I never heard him more witty, more humorous, and more incisive than on this occasion. The President told Norton, who had never met him before, that he had seen him and heard him in his very best vein."

              When the discussion turned to Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, President Taft asked Roosevelt if he thought the Kaiser was intent on war with England. "No, I don't think so..." TR replied. "... He assured me that there was nothing further from his mind or that of the German people. In fact, he told me that he loved England next to Germany...." Roosevelt said that Wilhelm, who was very vain, was disappointed that England did not "make a fuss over him," and he added that the German emperor wanted Germany "to unite with the United States and England and form a compact to guarantee the peace of the world." Roosevelt also stated that, even if Wilhelm wanted to stop building warships for his navy, the German people would not allow him to do it.

              "Then you don't look for much advance in the universal-peace plan?" President Taft asked TR, who he was considering appointing as the head of an American contingent to an international peace conference.
              "No, I don't..." Roosevelt replied. "In fact, as long as Germany builds ships, England will continue to do so. Germany says she wants as many as England, and England says she must, on account of her colonies, keep just so far ahead of Germany, and there you are."
              --------------------------

              I hope this information will be helpful to you, Keith.

              All my best,

              George
            • SimonATL
              George Thanks for an excellent insight. TR (and most everyone in the know) were aware that Britain would never allow Germany to catch up to her in ship
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 27, 2010
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                George

                Thanks for an excellent insight.
                TR (and most everyone in the know) were aware that Britain would never allow Germany to catch up to her in ship building. In deed, the Kaiser wanted a 3-to-2 ratio but Britain insisted on a 4-3 ratio. ALL of the Kaiser's billions in German marks toward ships was only utilized in the Battle of Jutland and then the bulk of the entire mass of new German battleships and cruisers were deliberately scuttled off of Scapa Flow rather than turn them over to the British.

                Keith

                --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, "George" <tippootib@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Keith.
                >
                > The following quote comes from my book "Archie: The Life of Major Archibald Butt from Georgia to the Titanic." The discussion in question took place during the meeting between Taft and TR that took place at Beverly on June 10, 1910:
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > From that point onward the topics of conversation ran a wide gamut, and Colonel Roosevelt discussed lion hunting, the similarity of the grounds of the Summer White House to those of the country estate of Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, his recent experiences in England as the President's representative at the funeral of King Edward, his journey to Oyster Bay through the snowbound countryside on President Taft's inauguration day, and the huge amount of legislation that had been passed during Mr. Taft's administration. "He was in his best vein," Archie recalled, "and I never heard him more witty, more humorous, and more incisive than on this occasion. The President told Norton, who had never met him before, that he had seen him and heard him in his very best vein."
                >
                > When the discussion turned to Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, President Taft asked Roosevelt if he thought the Kaiser was intent on war with England. "No, I don't think so..." TR replied. "... He assured me that there was nothing further from his mind or that of the German people. In fact, he told me that he loved England next to Germany...." Roosevelt said that Wilhelm, who was very vain, was disappointed that England did not "make a fuss over him," and he added that the German emperor wanted Germany "to unite with the United States and England and form a compact to guarantee the peace of the world." Roosevelt also stated that, even if Wilhelm wanted to stop building warships for his navy, the German people would not allow him to do it.
                >
                > "Then you don't look for much advance in the universal-peace plan?" President Taft asked TR, who he was considering appointing as the head of an American contingent to an international peace conference.
                > "No, I don't..." Roosevelt replied. "In fact, as long as Germany builds ships, England will continue to do so. Germany says she wants as many as England, and England says she must, on account of her colonies, keep just so far ahead of Germany, and there you are."
                > --------------------------
                >
                > I hope this information will be helpful to you, Keith.
                >
                > All my best,
                >
                > George
                >
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