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  • Patrick J. Healy
    Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished writer - - which brings me
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 14 1:29 PM
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      Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
      an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished writer -
      - which brings me the reason for my membership.

      Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined the
      Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest and
      its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
      special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
      curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
      me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"

      A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible, however
      much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
      primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
      credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
      of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.

      Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
      have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal" and
      swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
      from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
      that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself and
      did some fairly extensive reading on him.

      Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have tended to
      regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal". Well, okay, he was a
      Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with honors
      from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and was
      fluent in six languages!

      One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
      predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
      challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
      American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
      post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
      postwar allies against Russia!

      The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated --
      intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
      then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for a
      novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
      the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
      American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking of
      Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have had
      on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.

      Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
      Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
      Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have transformed
      Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have ended
      in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
      Revolution in Russia?

      Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
      deeply appreciated.
    • Linda Milano
      OK, here goes. TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met with Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him. At that time, he cautioned that war was
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 14 2:46 PM
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        OK, here goes.  TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met with Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
         
        At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and that the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it sooner or later..  He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
         
        If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you should read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the war.  It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty should have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted, Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape, which would have warded off World War II.
         
        As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have the vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters liked TR.  If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily.  As it was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
         
        That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
         
        Best,
        Linda Milano
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
        Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.

        Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
        an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished writer -
        - which brings me the reason for my membership.

        Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined the
        Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest and
        its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
        special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
        curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
        me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"

        A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible, however
        much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
        primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
        credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
        of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.

        Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
        have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal" and
        swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
        from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
        that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself and
        did some fairly extensive reading on him.

        Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have tended to
        regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal" . Well, okay, he was a
        Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with honors
        from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and was
        fluent in six languages!

        One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
        predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
        challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
        American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
        post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
        postwar allies against Russia!

        The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated --
        intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
        then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for a
        novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
        the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
        American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking of
        Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have had
        on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.

        Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
        Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
        Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have transformed
        Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have ended
        in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
        Revolution in Russia?

        Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
        deeply appreciated.

      • Patrick J. Healy
        His letters and personal papers are remarkably visionary and as I said before, I think because of his overblown macho image -- much of it by his own design --
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 15 5:22 AM
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          His letters and personal papers are remarkably visionary and as I
          said before, I think because of his overblown macho image -- much of
          it by his own design -- he is never going to get the credit he
          deserves intellectually. The Muse of History is a hard marker and
          not always fair. For example, his prediction of the World Wars with
          Germany and the Cold War with Russia was from a term paper he wrote
          when he was 19 -- about two years after Custer's Last Stand! He also
          stated in that same short prophecy that a much larger standing Army
          and Navy would be needed.

          You mention women suffrage and there seems little doubt that this
          would have happened no later than 1914 had been in charge -- he had
          been a strong advocate of this view for at least ten years before
          that.

          His success in the primaries brought him nearer to victory most
          people realize. Had the Michigan or Indiana legislature past their
          primary election bill, he would have only had to win one of those
          Middle Western States -- he defeated Taft in his native Ohio -- and
          win the Massachusetts primary to have carried the convention.

          This is not as "iffy" as it sounds; his defeat in that latter
          critical primary occurred only by a narrow margin, while the primay
          election bills in Michigan and Indiana failed only on extremely close
          votes. Remove those tiny margins at those critical points and the
          whole world changes dramatically. Like yourself, I believe, on the
          whole it would have been for the better and I am attempting to show
          this is not only credible but likely.

          --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Linda Milano <lemilano@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > OK, here goes. TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met with
          Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
          >
          > At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and that
          the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it
          sooner or later.. He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
          >
          > If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you
          should read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the
          war. It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty
          should have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted,
          Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape, which
          would have warded off World War II.
          >
          > As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have
          the vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters liked
          TR. If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily. As it
          was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
          >
          > That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
          >
          > Best,
          > Linda Milano
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Patrick J. Healy
          > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
          > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
          >
          >
          > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
          > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
          writer -
          > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
          >
          > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
          the
          > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
          and
          > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
          > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
          > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was,
          for
          > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
          >
          > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
          however
          > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
          > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
          > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a
          couple
          > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
          >
          > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this
          might
          > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
          and
          > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was
          drawn
          > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this
          time
          > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
          and
          > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
          >
          > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
          tended to
          > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal". Well, okay, he was a
          > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
          honors
          > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
          was
          > fluent in six languages!
          >
          > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
          > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
          > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
          > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
          > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
          > postwar allies against Russia!
          >
          > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
          -
          > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories
          and
          > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
          a
          > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
          > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
          > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
          of
          > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
          had
          > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
          >
          > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
          > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's
          career?
          > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
          transformed
          > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
          ended
          > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
          > Revolution in Russia?
          >
          > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
          > deeply appreciated.
          >
        • Cam Lynn
          Patrick, You aren t the first person to make these observations/speculations but possibly the first to begin a novel considering the what ifs . You are
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 15 8:08 AM
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            Patrick,

            You aren't the first person to make these observations/speculations but possibly the first to begin a novel considering the "what ifs".

            You are certainly correct in your opinion that Roosevelt was very perceptive and forward thinking regarding the world scene.

            I would encourage you to complete your project.  I'm sure there are a lot of us interested.

            Like many of us, you are another innocent victim that's been sucked in to the bottomless pit of wanting to know more and more about Theodore Roosevelt, his character and his times.

            Have a good time................

            Cam Lynn
            Brookings, OR








            On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Linda Milano wrote:


            OK, here goes.  TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met with Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
             
            At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and that the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it sooner or later..  He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
             
            If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you should read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the war.  It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty should have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted, Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape, which would have warded off World War II.
             
            As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have the vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters liked TR.  If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily.  As it was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
             
            That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
             
            Best,
            Linda Milano
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
            Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.

            Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as 
            an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished writer -
            - which brings me the reason for my membership.

            Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined the 
            Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest and 
            its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no 
            special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle 
            curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for 
            me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"

            A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible, however 
            much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the 
            primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite 
            credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple 
            of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.

            Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might 
            have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal" and 
            swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn 
            from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time 
            that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself and 
            did some fairly extensive reading on him.

            Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have tended to 
            regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal" . Well, okay, he was a 
            Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with honors 
            from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and was 
            fluent in six languages! 

            One of his more interesting and less well known college papers 
            predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power 
            challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale 
            American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous 
            post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become 
            postwar allies against Russia!

            The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -- 
            intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and 
            then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for a 
            novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed 
            the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that 
            American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking of 
            Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have had 
            on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.

            Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the 
            Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career? 
            Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have transformed 
            Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have ended 
            in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik 
            Revolution in Russia?

            Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be 
            deeply appreciated.



          • Patrick J. Healy
            He was incredibly visionary socially, politically, financially -- he doubled his inheritance in twelve years -- and militarily. One of his less well known
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 15 8:23 AM
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              He was incredibly visionary socially, politically, financially -- he
              doubled his inheritance in twelve years -- and militarily. One of
              his less well known proposals was for "a naval vessel devoted
              exclusively to the transport, launching and landing of military
              aircraft" which he put forward during his second term. As often
              happens, Congress did not wish to spend the money.


              --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Cam Lynn <camnpam@...> wrote:
              >
              > Patrick,
              >
              > You aren't the first person to make these
              observations/speculations
              > but possibly the first to begin a novel considering the "what ifs".
              >
              > You are certainly correct in your opinion that Roosevelt was very
              > perceptive and forward thinking regarding the world scene.
              >
              > I would encourage you to complete your project. I'm sure there are
              a
              > lot of us interested.
              >
              > Like many of us, you are another innocent victim that's been sucked
              in
              > to the bottomless pit of wanting to know more and more about
              Theodore
              > Roosevelt, his character and his times.
              >
              > Have a good time................
              >
              > Cam Lynn
              > Brookings, OR
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Linda Milano wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > OK, here goes. TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met
              with
              > > Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
              > >
              > > At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and
              that
              > > the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it
              > > sooner or later.. He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
              > >
              > > If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you
              should
              > > read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the
              war.
              > > It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty
              should
              > > have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted,
              > > Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape,
              which
              > > would have warded off World War II.
              > >
              > > As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have
              the
              > > vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters
              liked
              > > TR. If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily. As
              it
              > > was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
              > >
              > > That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
              > >
              > > Best,
              > > Linda Milano
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Patrick J. Healy
              > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
              > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
              > >
              > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
              > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
              writer -
              > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
              > >
              > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
              the
              > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
              and
              > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
              > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
              > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
              > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
              > >
              > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
              however
              > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
              > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
              > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
              > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
              > >
              > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
              > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
              and
              > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
              > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
              > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
              and
              > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
              > >
              > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
              tended to
              > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal". Well, okay, he was a
              > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
              honors
              > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
              was
              > > fluent in six languages!
              > >
              > > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
              > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
              > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
              > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
              > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
              > > postwar allies against Russia!
              > >
              > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
              -
              > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
              > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
              a
              > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
              > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
              > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
              of
              > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
              had
              > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
              > >
              > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
              > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
              > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
              transformed
              > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
              ended
              > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
              > > Revolution in Russia?
              > >
              > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
              > > deeply appreciated.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Henry Hendrix
              When did he make this proposal in the second term? What is your source? I am very interested. VR Henry Hendrix CDR, USN (PhD)
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 15 10:23 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                When did he make this proposal in the second term?  What is your source?  I am very interested.
                VR
                Henry Hendrix
                CDR, USN (PhD)






                > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                > From: patrickjhealy2001@...
                > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:23:50 +0000
                > Subject: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                >
                > He was incredibly visionary socially, politically, financially -- he
                > doubled his inheritance in twelve years -- and militarily. One of
                > his less well known proposals was for "a naval vessel devoted
                > exclusively to the transport, launching and landing of military
                > aircraft" which he put forward during his second term. As often
                > happens, Congress did not wish to spend the money.
                >
                >
                > --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Cam Lynn <camnpam@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Patrick,
                > >
                > > You aren't the first person to make these
                > observations/speculations
                > > but possibly the first to begin a novel considering the "what ifs".
                > >
                > > You are certainly correct in your opinion that Roosevelt was very
                > > perceptive and forward thinking regarding the world scene.
                > >
                > > I would encourage you to complete your project. I'm sure there are
                > a
                > > lot of us interested.
                > >
                > > Like many of us, you are another innocent victim that's been sucked
                > in
                > > to the bottomless pit of wanting to know more and more about
                > Theodore
                > > Roosevelt, his character and his times.
                > >
                > > Have a good time................
                > >
                > > Cam Lynn
                > > Brookings, OR
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Linda Milano wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > > > OK, here goes. TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met
                > with
                > > > Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
                > > >
                > > > At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and
                > that
                > > > the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it
                > > > sooner or later.. He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
                > > >
                > > > If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you
                > should
                > > > read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the
                > war.
                > > > It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty
                > should
                > > > have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted,
                > > > Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape,
                > which
                > > > would have warded off World War II.
                > > >
                > > > As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have
                > the
                > > > vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters
                > liked
                > > > TR. If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily. As
                > it
                > > > was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
                > > >
                > > > That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
                > > >
                > > > Best,
                > > > Linda Milano
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                > > >
                > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
                > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
                > writer -
                > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                > > >
                > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
                > the
                > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
                > and
                > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
                > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
                > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
                > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                > > >
                > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
                > however
                > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
                > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
                > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
                > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                > > >
                > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
                > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
                > and
                > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
                > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
                > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
                > and
                > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                > > >
                > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                > tended to
                > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal". Well, okay, he was a
                > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
                > honors
                > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
                > was
                > > > fluent in six languages!
                > > >
                > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
                > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
                > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
                > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
                > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
                > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                > > >
                > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
                > -
                > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
                > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
                > a
                > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
                > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
                > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
                > of
                > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
                > had
                > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                > > >
                > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
                > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
                > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                > transformed
                > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
                > ended
                > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
                > > > Revolution in Russia?
                > > >
                > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
                > > > deeply appreciated.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
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              • Patrick J. Healy
                I read this sometime ago in an article from the naval institute. It also was mentioned in a film about aircraft carriers called Wings Over Water . I am not
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 15 11:44 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  I read this sometime ago in an article from the naval institute. It
                  also was mentioned in a film about aircraft carriers called "Wings
                  Over Water". I am not ABSOLUTELY certain as to it's date, but it was
                  near the end of his second term. The matter never got beyond the
                  discussion stage in any case. The US Navy was at that time dominated
                  by Mahanian Battleship Admirals, who had little faith or interest in
                  the proposal, in 1910, the more peace-minded Democrats took control
                  of Congress and his parsimmonous successor, Mr. Taft, finally
                  cancelled the project.



                  --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Henry Hendrix <henryhendrix@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > When did he make this proposal in the second term? What is your
                  source? I am very interested.
                  > VR
                  > Henry Hendrix
                  > CDR, USN (PhD)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld
                  >
                • Patrick J. Healy
                  Consider what a difference even one such vessel, no bigger than the original CV-1, USS Langley, might have made at the Battle of Jutland! Even if she had been
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 15 11:53 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Consider what a difference even one such vessel, no bigger than the
                    original CV-1, USS Langley, might have made at the Battle of Jutland!
                    Even if she had been relegated to spotter duties for the combined US
                    and British Fleets, the reconnaisance service would have been
                    invaluable and probably sealed the doom of the German High Seas Fleet.

                    I have little doubt that this would have happened had he been returned
                    to the White House in 1912. Perhaps the US Marines might also have
                    mounted an Inchon-like amphibious attack at Savros Bay and also
                    reversed the outcome at Gallipoli.


                    --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Henry Hendrix <henryhendrix@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > When did he make this proposal in the second term? What is your
                    source? I am very interested.
                    > VR
                    > Henry Hendrix
                    > CDR, USN (PhD)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld
                    >
                  • Henry Hendrix
                    Could you remember the approximate time of the naval institute article? Was in in Naval History or Proceedings?
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 15 12:21 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Could you remember the approximate time of the naval institute article?  Was in in Naval History or Proceedings?




                      > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: patrickjhealy2001@...
                      > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:44:42 +0000
                      > Subject: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                      >
                      > I read this sometime ago in an article from the naval institute. It
                      > also was mentioned in a film about aircraft carriers called "Wings
                      > Over Water". I am not ABSOLUTELY certain as to it's date, but it was
                      > near the end of his second term. The matter never got beyond the
                      > discussion stage in any case. The US Navy was at that time dominated
                      > by Mahanian Battleship Admirals, who had little faith or interest in
                      > the proposal, in 1910, the more peace-minded Democrats took control
                      > of Congress and his parsimmonous successor, Mr. Taft, finally
                      > cancelled the project.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Henry Hendrix <henryhendrix@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > When did he make this proposal in the second term? What is your
                      > source? I am very interested.
                      > > VR
                      > > Henry Hendrix
                      > > CDR, USN (PhD)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                      >
                      > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                      >
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                    • Linda Milano
                      I know he did express interest in the use of aircraft as a military option. I ll have to look up the exact reference. But I don t know of any specific
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jul 15 7:54 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I know he did express interest in the use of aircraft as a military option.  I'll have to look up the exact reference.  But I don't know of any specific reference to what we would today call an aircraft carrier.
                         
                        Best,
                        Linda Milano
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:23 PM
                        Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.

                        When did he make this proposal in the second term?  What is your source?  I am very interested.
                        VR
                        Henry Hendrix
                        CDR, USN (PhD)






                        > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                        > From: patrickjhealy2001@ yahoo.com
                        > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:23:50 +0000
                        > Subject: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                        >
                        > He was incredibly visionary socially, politically, financially -- he
                        > doubled his inheritance in twelve years -- and militarily. One of
                        > his less well known proposals was for "a naval vessel devoted
                        > exclusively to the transport, launching and landing of military
                        > aircraft" which he put forward during his second term. As often
                        > happens, Congress did not wish to spend the money.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In tr-m@yahoogroups. com, Cam Lynn <camnpam@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Patrick,
                        > >
                        > > You aren't the first person to make these
                        > observations/ speculations
                        > > but possibly the first to begin a novel considering the "what ifs".
                        > >
                        > > You are certainly correct in your opinion that Roosevelt was very
                        > > perceptive and forward thinking regarding the world scene.
                        > >
                        > > I would encourage you to complete your project. I'm sure there are
                        > a
                        > > lot of us interested.
                        > >
                        > > Like many of us, you are another innocent victim that's been sucked
                        > in
                        > > to the bottomless pit of wanting to know more and more about
                        > Theodore
                        > > Roosevelt, his character and his times.
                        > >
                        > > Have a good time........ ........
                        > >
                        > > Cam Lynn
                        > > Brookings, OR
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Linda Milano wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > OK, here goes. TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met
                        > with
                        > > > Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
                        > > >
                        > > > At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and
                        > that
                        > > > the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it
                        > > > sooner or later.. He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
                        > > >
                        > > > If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you
                        > should
                        > > > read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the
                        > war.
                        > > > It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty
                        > should
                        > > > have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted,
                        > > > Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape,
                        > which
                        > > > would have warded off World War II.
                        > > >
                        > > > As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have
                        > the
                        > > > vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters
                        > liked
                        > > > TR. If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily. As
                        > it
                        > > > was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
                        > > >
                        > > > That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
                        > > >
                        > > > Best,
                        > > > Linda Milano
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                        > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                        > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                        > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
                        > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
                        > writer -
                        > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                        > > >
                        > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
                        > the
                        > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
                        > and
                        > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
                        > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
                        > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
                        > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                        > > >
                        > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
                        > however
                        > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
                        > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
                        > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
                        > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                        > > >
                        > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
                        > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
                        > and
                        > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
                        > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
                        > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
                        > and
                        > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                        > > >
                        > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                        > tended to
                        > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal" . Well, okay, he was a
                        > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
                        > honors
                        > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
                        > was
                        > > > fluent in six languages!
                        > > >
                        > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
                        > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
                        > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
                        > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
                        > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
                        > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                        > > >
                        > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
                        > -
                        > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
                        > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
                        > a
                        > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
                        > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
                        > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
                        > of
                        > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
                        > had
                        > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                        > > >
                        > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
                        > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
                        > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                        > transformed
                        > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
                        > ended
                        > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
                        > > > Revolution in Russia?
                        > > >
                        > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
                        > > > deeply appreciated.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                        >
                        > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@eGroups. com
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@ eGroups.comYahoo ! Groups Links
                        >
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                        >
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                        >
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                      • Henry Hendrix
                        Linda, I am aware of the letter he wrote in 1897 about Professor Langley s experiments, but I did not come across anything remarkable with regard to him and
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jul 16 4:40 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Linda,
                          I am aware of the letter he wrote in 1897 about Professor Langley's experiments, but I did not come across anything remarkable with regard to him and aircraft and ships during his presidency.  In researching for my doctoral dissertation on Roosevelt's use of the Navy in his diplomacy I came up with tons of materials on battleships, destroyers, and submarines, but very little during his presidency on aircraft.  So, since I am in the final stages of getting a book out on this topic, if anyone comes across a specific piece of correspondence related to naval aviation, please let me know.
                          VR
                          Jerry Hendrix






                          To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                          From: lemilano@...
                          Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:54:56 -0400
                          Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.


                          I know he did express interest in the use of aircraft as a military option.  I'll have to look up the exact reference.  But I don't know of any specific reference to what we would today call an aircraft carrier.
                           
                          Best,
                          Linda Milano
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:23 PM
                          Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.

                          When did he make this proposal in the second term?  What is your source?  I am very interested.
                          VR
                          Henry Hendrix
                          CDR, USN (PhD)






                          > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                          > From: patrickjhealy2001@ yahoo.com
                          > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:23:50 +0000
                          > Subject: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                          >
                          > He was incredibly visionary socially, politically, financially -- he
                          > doubled his inheritance in twelve years -- and militarily. One of
                          > his less well known proposals was for "a naval vessel devoted
                          > exclusively to the transport, launching and landing of military
                          > aircraft" which he put forward during his second term. As often
                          > happens, Congress did not wish to spend the money.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In tr-m@yahoogroups. com, Cam Lynn <camnpam@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Patrick,
                          > >
                          > > You aren't the first person to make these
                          > observations/ speculations
                          > > but possibly the first to begin a novel considering the "what ifs".
                          > >
                          > > You are certainly correct in your opinion that Roosevelt was very
                          > > perceptive and forward thinking regarding the world scene.
                          > >
                          > > I would encourage you to complete your project. I'm sure there are
                          > a
                          > > lot of us interested.
                          > >
                          > > Like many of us, you are another innocent victim that's been sucked
                          > in
                          > > to the bottomless pit of wanting to know more and more about
                          > Theodore
                          > > Roosevelt, his character and his times.
                          > >
                          > > Have a good time........ ........
                          > >
                          > > Cam Lynn
                          > > Brookings, OR
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Linda Milano wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > OK, here goes. TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met
                          > with
                          > > > Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
                          > > >
                          > > > At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and
                          > that
                          > > > the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it
                          > > > sooner or later.. He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
                          > > >
                          > > > If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you
                          > should
                          > > > read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the
                          > war.
                          > > > It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty
                          > should
                          > > > have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted,
                          > > > Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape,
                          > which
                          > > > would have warded off World War II.
                          > > >
                          > > > As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have
                          > the
                          > > > vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters
                          > liked
                          > > > TR. If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily. As
                          > it
                          > > > was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
                          > > >
                          > > > That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
                          > > >
                          > > > Best,
                          > > > Linda Milano
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                          > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                          > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                          > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
                          > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
                          > writer -
                          > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                          > > >
                          > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
                          > the
                          > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
                          > and
                          > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
                          > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
                          > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
                          > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                          > > >
                          > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
                          > however
                          > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
                          > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
                          > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
                          > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                          > > >
                          > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
                          > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
                          > and
                          > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
                          > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
                          > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
                          > and
                          > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                          > > >
                          > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                          > tended to
                          > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal" . Well, okay, he was a
                          > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
                          > honors
                          > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
                          > was
                          > > > fluent in six languages!
                          > > >
                          > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
                          > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
                          > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
                          > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
                          > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
                          > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                          > > >
                          > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
                          > -
                          > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
                          > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
                          > a
                          > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
                          > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
                          > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
                          > of
                          > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
                          > had
                          > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                          > > >
                          > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
                          > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
                          > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                          > transformed
                          > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
                          > ended
                          > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
                          > > > Revolution in Russia?
                          > > >
                          > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
                          > > > deeply appreciated.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                          >
                          > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@eGroups. com
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@ eGroups.comYahoo ! Groups Links
                          >
                          > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/tr- m/
                          >
                          > <*> Your email settings:
                          > Individual Email | Traditional
                          >
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                        • Patrick J. Healy
                          I believe Proceedings.....it s been several years, but 2001 to 2003 is a good time frame. ... article? Was in in Naval History or Proceedings? ...
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jul 16 4:54 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I believe Proceedings.....it's been several years, but 2001 to 2003 is
                            a good time frame.

                            --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Henry Hendrix <henryhendrix@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Could you remember the approximate time of the naval institute
                            article? Was in in Naval History or Proceedings?
                            >
                            > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?
                            ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008
                            >
                          • Patrick J. Healy
                            See United Technologies documentary Wings Over Water . It is not only an excellent exposition on the evolution of the naval air arm, but of the US Navy over
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jul 16 5:00 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              See United Technologies documentary "Wings Over Water". It is not
                              only an excellent exposition on the evolution of the naval air arm,
                              but of the US Navy over the entire last century.


                              --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Henry Hendrix <henryhendrix@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Linda,
                              > I am aware of the letter he wrote in 1897 about Professor Langley's
                              experiments, but I did not come across anything remarkable with
                              regard to him and aircraft and ships during his presidency. In
                              researching for my doctoral dissertation on Roosevelt's use of the
                              Navy in his diplomacy I came up with tons of materials on
                              battleships, destroyers, and submarines, but very little during his
                              presidency on aircraft. So, since I am in the final stages of
                              getting a book out on this topic, if anyone comes across a specific
                              piece of correspondence related to naval aviation, please let me know.
                              > VR
                              > Jerry Hendrix
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To: tr-m@...: lemilano@...: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:54:56 -0400Subject:
                              Re: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                              >
                              > I know he did express interest in the use of aircraft as a military
                              option. I'll have to look up the exact reference. But I don't know
                              of any specific reference to what we would today call an aircraft
                              carrier.
                              >
                              > Best,
                              > Linda Milano
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Henry Hendrix
                              > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:23 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                              >
                              >
                              > When did he make this proposal in the second term? What is your
                              source? I am very interested.VRHenry HendrixCDR, USN (PhD)
                              >
                              > The i'm Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
                              Find out now.
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                              >
                            • Linda Milano
                              Hi, Jerry! That was the letter to which I was referring... Best. Linda ... From: Henry Hendrix To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:40 AM
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jul 16 9:23 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi, Jerry!
                                 
                                That was the letter to which I was referring...
                                 
                                Best.
                                Linda
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:40 AM
                                Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.

                                Linda,
                                I am aware of the letter he wrote in 1897 about Professor Langley's experiments, but I did not come across anything remarkable with regard to him and aircraft and ships during his presidency.  In researching for my doctoral dissertation on Roosevelt's use of the Navy in his diplomacy I came up with tons of materials on battleships, destroyers, and submarines, but very little during his presidency on aircraft.  So, since I am in the final stages of getting a book out on this topic, if anyone comes across a specific piece of correspondence related to naval aviation, please let me know.
                                VR
                                Jerry Hendrix






                                To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                                From: lemilano@optonline. net
                                Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:54:56 -0400
                                Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.


                                I know he did express interest in the use of aircraft as a military option.  I'll have to look up the exact reference.  But I don't know of any specific reference to what we would today call an aircraft carrier.
                                 
                                Best,
                                Linda Milano
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:23 PM
                                Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.

                                When did he make this proposal in the second term?  What is your source?  I am very interested.
                                VR
                                Henry Hendrix
                                CDR, USN (PhD)






                                > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                                > From: patrickjhealy2001@ yahoo.com
                                > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:23:50 +0000
                                > Subject: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                >
                                > He was incredibly visionary socially, politically, financially -- he
                                > doubled his inheritance in twelve years -- and militarily. One of
                                > his less well known proposals was for "a naval vessel devoted
                                > exclusively to the transport, launching and landing of military
                                > aircraft" which he put forward during his second term. As often
                                > happens, Congress did not wish to spend the money.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In tr-m@yahoogroups. com, Cam Lynn <camnpam@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Patrick,
                                > >
                                > > You aren't the first person to make these
                                > observations/ speculations
                                > > but possibly the first to begin a novel considering the "what ifs".
                                > >
                                > > You are certainly correct in your opinion that Roosevelt was very
                                > > perceptive and forward thinking regarding the world scene.
                                > >
                                > > I would encourage you to complete your project. I'm sure there are
                                > a
                                > > lot of us interested.
                                > >
                                > > Like many of us, you are another innocent victim that's been sucked
                                > in
                                > > to the bottomless pit of wanting to know more and more about
                                > Theodore
                                > > Roosevelt, his character and his times.
                                > >
                                > > Have a good time........ ........
                                > >
                                > > Cam Lynn
                                > > Brookings, OR
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On Jul 14, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Linda Milano wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > > OK, here goes. TR came back from Europe in 1910, where he met
                                > with
                                > > > Kaiser Wilhelm and reviewed the troops with him.
                                > > >
                                > > > At that time, he cautioned that war was brewing in Europe and
                                > that
                                > > > the US should prepare, because we were going to be drawn into it
                                > > > sooner or later.. He also cautioned to keep an eye on Japan.
                                > > >
                                > > > If you can get your hands on the collected letters of TR, you
                                > should
                                > > > read the one he sent to the King of England at the end of the
                                > war.
                                > > > It contains his recommendations about how the peace treaty
                                > should
                                > > > have been drawn up - if his recommendations had been adopted,
                                > > > Germany and the Balkans would have been in much better shape,
                                > which
                                > > > would have warded off World War II.
                                > > >
                                > > > As far as the election of 1912, many men (women did not yet have
                                > the
                                > > > vote) voted on party lines, no matter how much those voters
                                > liked
                                > > > TR. If TR had run as a Republican, he would have won easily. As
                                > it
                                > > > was, Taft and Roosevelt split the vote, allowing Wilson to win.
                                > > >
                                > > > That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
                                > > >
                                > > > Best,
                                > > > Linda Milano
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                                > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                                > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                                > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
                                > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
                                > writer -
                                > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                                > > >
                                > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
                                > the
                                > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
                                > and
                                > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
                                > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
                                > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
                                > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                                > > >
                                > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
                                > however
                                > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
                                > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
                                > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
                                > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                                > > >
                                > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
                                > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
                                > and
                                > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
                                > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
                                > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
                                > and
                                > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                                > > >
                                > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                                > tended to
                                > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal" . Well, okay, he was a
                                > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
                                > honors
                                > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
                                > was
                                > > > fluent in six languages!
                                > > >
                                > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
                                > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
                                > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
                                > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
                                > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
                                > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                                > > >
                                > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
                                > -
                                > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
                                > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
                                > a
                                > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
                                > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
                                > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
                                > of
                                > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
                                > had
                                > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                                > > >
                                > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
                                > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
                                > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                                > transformed
                                > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
                                > ended
                                > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
                                > > > Revolution in Russia?
                                > > >
                                > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
                                > > > deeply appreciated.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
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                              • RoginaJ@cs.com
                                Hi Patrick, I can t help you on the military issues but,I don t believe TR ever actually took a degree from Columbia although he had attended for some period.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jul 18 11:31 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Patrick,

                                  I can't help you on the military issues but,I don't believe TR ever actually took a degree from Columbia although he had attended for some period.

                                  Good luck with the novel! Sounds facsinating. Just keep TR out of Morocco!!

                                  Rogina

                                  >  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  >  > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                                  >  > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                                  >  > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                                  >  > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
                                  >  > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
                                  >  > writer -
                                  >  > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
                                  >  > the
                                  >  > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
                                  >  > and
                                  >  > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
                                  >  > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
                                  >  > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
                                  >  > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
                                  >  > however
                                  >  > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
                                  >  > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
                                  >  > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
                                  >  > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
                                  >  > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
                                  >  > and
                                  >  > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
                                  >  > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
                                  >  > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
                                  >  > and
                                  >  > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                                  >  > tended to
                                  >  > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal". Well, okay, he was a
                                  >  > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
                                  >  > honors
                                  >  > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
                                  >  > was
                                  >  > > > fluent in six languages!
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
                                  >  > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
                                  >  > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
                                  >  > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
                                  >  > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
                                  >  > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
                                  >  > -
                                  >  > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
                                  >  > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
                                  >  > a
                                  >  > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
                                  >  > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
                                  >  > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
                                  >  > of
                                  >  > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
                                  >  > had
                                  >  > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
                                  >  > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
                                  >  > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                                  >  > transformed
                                  >  > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
                                  >  > ended
                                  >  > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
                                  >  > > > Revolution in Russia?
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
                                  >  > > > deeply appreciated.
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > > >
                                  >  > >
                                  >  >
                                  >  >
                                  >  >
                                  >  > ------------------------------------
                                  >  >
                                  >  > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                                  >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                  >  >
                                  >  >
                                  >  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                  >
                                  >
                                • Linda Milano
                                  Nope, TR attended Columbia Law School, but dropped out before graduation - when he went into politics. Best, Linda Milano ... From: RoginaJ@cs.com To:
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jul 18 1:39 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Nope, TR attended Columbia Law School, but dropped out before graduation - when he went into politics.
                                     
                                    Best,
                                    Linda Milano
                                      
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:31 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.

                                    Hi Patrick,

                                    I can't help you on the military issues but,I don't believe TR ever actually took a degree from Columbia although he had attended for some period.

                                    Good luck with the novel! Sounds facsinating. Just keep TR out of Morocco!!

                                    Rogina

                                    >  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    >  > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                                    >  > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                                    >  > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                                    >  > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and work as
                                    >  > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring unpublished
                                    >  > writer -
                                    >  > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which examined
                                    >  > the
                                    >  > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that contest
                                    >  > and
                                    >  > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had no
                                    >  > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of idle
                                    >  > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That was, for
                                    >  > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not credible,
                                    >  > however
                                    >  > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft in the
                                    >  > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is quite
                                    >  > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of a couple
                                    >  > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how this might
                                    >  > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New Deal"
                                    >  > and
                                    >  > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it was drawn
                                    >  > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at this time
                                    >  > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR himself
                                    >  > and
                                    >  > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                                    >  > tended to
                                    >  > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal" . Well, okay, he was a
                                    >  > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated with
                                    >  > honors
                                    >  > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42 books and
                                    >  > was
                                    >  > > > fluent in six languages!
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college papers
                                    >  > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German power
                                    >  > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-scale
                                    >  > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an ominous
                                    >  > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would become
                                    >  > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously underrated -
                                    >  > -
                                    >  > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short stories and
                                    >  > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent subject for
                                    >  > a
                                    >  > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already completed
                                    >  > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt that
                                    >  > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the sinking
                                    >  > of
                                    >  > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he might have
                                    >  > had
                                    >  > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on the
                                    >  > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's career?
                                    >  > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                                    >  > transformed
                                    >  > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War have
                                    >  > ended
                                    >  > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the Bolshevik
                                    >  > > > Revolution in Russia?
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion would be
                                    >  > > > deeply appreciated.
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > > >
                                    >  > >
                                    >  >
                                    >  >
                                    >  >
                                    >  > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                    >  >
                                    >  > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@eGroups. com
                                    >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@ eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                    >  >
                                    >  >
                                    >  >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                  • Patrick J. Healy
                                    He did that in his first term.....What about Constantinople? ... actually took a degree from Columbia although he had attended for some period. ... Morocco!!
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jul 18 1:40 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      He did that in his first term.....What about Constantinople?


                                      --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, RoginaJ@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Patrick,
                                      >
                                      > I can't help you on the military issues but,I don't believe TR ever
                                      actually took a degree from Columbia although he had attended for
                                      some period.
                                      >
                                      > Good luck with the novel! Sounds facsinating. Just keep TR out of
                                      Morocco!!
                                      >
                                      > Rogina
                                      >
                                      > >  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > >  > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                                      > >  > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >  > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                                      > >  > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and
                                      work as
                                      > >  > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring
                                      unpublished
                                      > >  > writer -
                                      > >  > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which
                                      examined
                                      > >  > the
                                      > >  > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that
                                      contest
                                      > >  > and
                                      > >  > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had
                                      no
                                      > >  > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of
                                      idle
                                      > >  > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That
                                      was, for
                                      > >  > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not
                                      credible,
                                      > >  > however
                                      > >  > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft
                                      in the
                                      > >  > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is
                                      quite
                                      > >  > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of
                                      a couple
                                      > >  > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how
                                      this might
                                      > >  > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New
                                      Deal"
                                      > >  > and
                                      > >  > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it
                                      was drawn
                                      > >  > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at
                                      this time
                                      > >  > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR
                                      himself
                                      > >  > and
                                      > >  > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                                      > >  > tended to
                                      > >  > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal". Well, okay, he
                                      was a
                                      > >  > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated
                                      with
                                      > >  > honors
                                      > >  > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42
                                      books and
                                      > >  > was
                                      > >  > > > fluent in six languages!
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college
                                      papers
                                      > >  > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German
                                      power
                                      > >  > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-
                                      scale
                                      > >  > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an
                                      ominous
                                      > >  > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would
                                      become
                                      > >  > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously
                                      underrated -
                                      > >  > -
                                      > >  > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short
                                      stories and
                                      > >  > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent
                                      subject for
                                      > >  > a
                                      > >  > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already
                                      completed
                                      > >  > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt
                                      that
                                      > >  > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the
                                      sinking
                                      > >  > of
                                      > >  > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he
                                      might have
                                      > >  > had
                                      > >  > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on
                                      the
                                      > >  > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's
                                      career?
                                      > >  > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                                      > >  > transformed
                                      > >  > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War
                                      have
                                      > >  > ended
                                      > >  > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the
                                      Bolshevik
                                      > >  > > > Revolution in Russia?
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion
                                      would be
                                      > >  > > > deeply appreciated.
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > > >
                                      > >  > >
                                      > >  >
                                      > >  >
                                      > >  >
                                      > >  > ------------------------------------
                                      > >  >
                                      > >  > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                                      > >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...!
                                      Groups Links
                                      > >  >
                                      > >  >
                                      > >  >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      -----------
                                      > >  The i Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
                                      Find out now.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • RoginaJ@cs.com
                                      Hi Patrick, Got a bit confused - what are you saying he did in his first Term? Rogina
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jul 29 12:58 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Patrick,

                                        Got a bit confused - what are you saying he did in his first Term?

                                        Rogina

                                        "Patrick J. Healy" <patrickjhealy2001@...> wrote:

                                        >He did that in his first term.....What about Constantinople?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >--- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, RoginaJ@... wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >> Hi Patrick,
                                        >>
                                        >> I can't help you on the military issues but,I don't believe TR ever
                                        >actually took a degree from Columbia although he had attended for
                                        >some period.
                                        >>
                                        >> Good luck with the novel! Sounds facsinating. Just keep TR out of
                                        >Morocco!!
                                        >>
                                        >> Rogina
                                        >>
                                        >> >  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        >> >  > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                                        >> >  > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                                        >> >  > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                                        >> >  > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and
                                        >work as
                                        >> >  > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring
                                        >unpublished
                                        >> >  > writer -
                                        >> >  > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which
                                        >examined
                                        >> >  > the
                                        >> >  > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that
                                        >contest
                                        >> >  > and
                                        >> >  > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had
                                        >no
                                        >> >  > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of
                                        >idle
                                        >> >  > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That
                                        >was, for
                                        >> >  > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not
                                        >credible,
                                        >> >  > however
                                        >> >  > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft
                                        >in the
                                        >> >  > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is
                                        >quite
                                        >> >  > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of
                                        >a couple
                                        >> >  > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how
                                        >this might
                                        >> >  > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New
                                        >Deal"
                                        >> >  > and
                                        >> >  > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it
                                        >was drawn
                                        >> >  > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at
                                        >this time
                                        >> >  > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR
                                        >himself
                                        >> >  > and
                                        >> >  > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                                        >> >  > tended to
                                        >> >  > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal". Well, okay, he
                                        >was a
                                        >> >  > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated
                                        >with
                                        >> >  > honors
                                        >> >  > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42
                                        >books and
                                        >> >  > was
                                        >> >  > > > fluent in six languages!
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college
                                        >papers
                                        >> >  > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German
                                        >power
                                        >> >  > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-
                                        >scale
                                        >> >  > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an
                                        >ominous
                                        >> >  > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would
                                        >become
                                        >> >  > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously
                                        >underrated -
                                        >> >  > -
                                        >> >  > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short
                                        >stories and
                                        >> >  > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent
                                        >subject for
                                        >> >  > a
                                        >> >  > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already
                                        >completed
                                        >> >  > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt
                                        >that
                                        >> >  > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the
                                        >sinking
                                        >> >  > of
                                        >> >  > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he
                                        >might have
                                        >> >  > had
                                        >> >  > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on
                                        >the
                                        >> >  > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's
                                        >career?
                                        >> >  > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                                        >> >  > transformed
                                        >> >  > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War
                                        >have
                                        >> >  > ended
                                        >> >  > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the
                                        >Bolshevik
                                        >> >  > > > Revolution in Russia?
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion
                                        >would be
                                        >> >  > > > deeply appreciated.
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > > >
                                        >> >  > >
                                        >> >  >
                                        >> >  >
                                        >> >  >
                                        >> >  > ------------------------------------
                                        >> >  >
                                        >> >  > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                                        >> >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...!
                                        >Groups Links
                                        >> >  >
                                        >> >  >
                                        >> >  >
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >-----------
                                        >> >  The i Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
                                        >Find out now.
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Patrick Healy
                                        First Term was when he was involved in the Morrocco Crisis you mentioned.  My what-if focuses on Gallipoli and Constantinople -- as far as the Middle East
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jul 29 3:43 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          First Term was when he was involved in the Morrocco Crisis you mentioned.  My what-if focuses on Gallipoli and Constantinople -- as far as the Middle East goes!

                                          --- On Tue, 7/29/08, RoginaJ@... <RoginaJ@...> wrote:
                                          From: RoginaJ@... <RoginaJ@...>
                                          Subject: RE: [tr-m] Re: From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                          To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 12:58 PM

                                          Hi Patrick,

                                          Got a bit confused - what are you saying he did in his first Term?

                                          Rogina

                                          "Patrick J. Healy" <patrickjhealy2001@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                          >He did that in his first term.....What about Constantinople?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >--- In tr-m@yahoogroups. com, RoginaJ@... wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >> Hi Patrick,
                                          >>
                                          >> I can't help you on the military issues but,I don't believe TR ever
                                          >actually took a degree from Columbia although he had attended for
                                          >some period.
                                          >>
                                          >> Good luck with the novel! Sounds facsinating. Just keep TR out of
                                          >Morocco!!
                                          >>
                                          >> Rogina
                                          >>
                                          >> >  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          >> >  > > > From: Patrick J. Healy
                                          >> >  > > > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                                          >> >  > > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:29 PM
                                          >> >  > > > Subject: [tr-m] From a NEW Member Seeking Help.
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > Hi Folks! My name is Patrick Healy. I am 42 years old and
                                          >work as
                                          >> >  > > > an engineer in a refinery. I am also an aspiring
                                          >unpublished
                                          >> >  > writer -
                                          >> >  > > > - which brings me the reason for my membership.
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > Some years ago, I read a couple of short stories which
                                          >examined
                                          >> >  > the
                                          >> >  > > > Election of 1912 and explored how TR might have won that
                                          >contest
                                          >> >  > and
                                          >> >  > > > its possible impact on the Great War. Prior to this, I had
                                          >no
                                          >> >  > > > special interest in the matter, but, largely as matter of
                                          >idle
                                          >> >  > > > curiosity, thought I would explore it's credibility. That
                                          >was, for
                                          >> >  > > > me at least, an intellectual "tipping point"
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > A scenario of his election as an independent is not
                                          >credible,
                                          >> >  > however
                                          >> >  > > > much one may wish it otherwise -- but the defeat of Taft
                                          >in the
                                          >> >  > > > primaries and ultimately at the Republican convention is
                                          >quite
                                          >> >  > > > credible. All that is necessary is change the outcomes of
                                          >a couple
                                          >> >  > > > of very close races -- Michigan and Massachusetts.
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > Having proceeded that far, I became intrigued about how
                                          >this might
                                          >> >  > > > have played out. I did some research of his cousin's "New
                                          >Deal"
                                          >> >  > and
                                          >> >  > > > swiftly concluded it really was not so new -- most of it
                                          >was drawn
                                          >> >  > > > from the Bull Moose platform. Needless to say, it was at
                                          >this time
                                          >> >  > > > that became intrigued with the life and character of TR
                                          >himself
                                          >> >  > and
                                          >> >  > > > did some fairly extensive reading on him.
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > Many Americans -- like myself until a few years ago -- have
                                          >> >  > tended to
                                          >> >  > > > regard TR as a sort of "macho neanderthal" . Well, okay, he
                                          >was a
                                          >> >  > > > Rough Rider, a rancher and a hunter -- who also graduated
                                          >with
                                          >> >  > honors
                                          >> >  > > > from Harvard and the Columbia School of Law, wrote 42
                                          >books and
                                          >> >  > was
                                          >> >  > > > fluent in six languages!
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > One of his more interesting and less well known college
                                          >papers
                                          >> >  > > > predicted the two world wars as outgrowths of the German
                                          >power
                                          >> >  > > > challenge and stated that this was likely to require large-
                                          >scale
                                          >> >  > > > American military action in Europe! It also contained an
                                          >ominous
                                          >> >  > > > post-script to the effect that Germany and the USA would
                                          >become
                                          >> >  > > > postwar allies against Russia!
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > The image of TR as an underrated -- indeed, seriously
                                          >underrated -
                                          >> >  > -
                                          >> >  > > > intellectual led me to re-evaluate those earlier short
                                          >stories and
                                          >> >  > > > then conclude that their theme would be the excellent
                                          >subject for
                                          >> >  > a
                                          >> >  > > > novel which I have undertaken to write. I have already
                                          >completed
                                          >> >  > > > the "run up phase" to the war and there seems little doubt
                                          >that
                                          >> >  > > > American would have become an active belligerent upon the
                                          >sinking
                                          >> >  > of
                                          >> >  > > > Lusitania. I am presently evaluating the impact of he
                                          >might have
                                          >> >  > had
                                          >> >  > > > on the war itself and I would like to get some opinions.
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > Would our earlier intervention have broken the deadlock on
                                          >the
                                          >> >  > > > Western Front sooner? What about Gallipoli and Churchill's
                                          >career?
                                          >> >  > > > Could the combined strength of the US and Royal Navy have
                                          >> >  > transformed
                                          >> >  > > > Jutland into a decisive fleet action? Would the Great War
                                          >have
                                          >> >  > ended
                                          >> >  > > > in 1916 instead of 1918? Could that have prevented the
                                          >Bolshevik
                                          >> >  > > > Revolution in Russia?
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > > Any information -- even if it is only a personal opinion
                                          >would be
                                          >> >  > > > deeply appreciated.
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > > >
                                          >> >  > >
                                          >> >  >
                                          >> >  >
                                          >> >  >
                                          >> >  > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                          >> >  >
                                          >> >  > To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                                          >> >  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@ ...!
                                          >Groups Links
                                          >> >  >
                                          >> >  >
                                          >> >  >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
                                          >-----------
                                          >> >  The i Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
                                          >Find out now.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >


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