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TR's Great Mistakes

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  • gclinton@law.upenn.edu
    Hello, everyone! I have to think the personal and political mistakes were one and the same: TR s statement immediately following the 1904 election that he
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 15 4:48 PM
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      Hello, everyone!
      I have to think the personal and political mistakes were one and the
      same: TR's statement immediately following the 1904 election that he
      would not be a candidate in 1908. Think of the impact: TR became, in
      many ways, a lame duck President, hostage to a ticking clock; this
      opened the door to Taft, which in turn led to a return of a less than
      progressive Republican party (which echoes down to this day); Taft in
      turn led to the 1912 election and TR's bitter split with the party;
      that in turn had a significant impact on the way TR was viewed by many
      Americans AND to the election of Wilson (BOO!!! HISS!!! a racist
      reactionary in the guise of a progressive); which in turn led to a
      period of TR's railing against the powers-that-be, and his becoming a
      rather shrill and frustrated (though very accurate) critic of the
      Nation's drifting self-image and ideals; this in turn led to a fairly
      dark period in TR'slife, when he knew he had lost favor with the
      American public. And, who knows, that may have contributed to his
      physical decline and eath (HEY!! go with me on this!!!)
      I do think, though, that TR's personality and message were
      strong enough that, had he lived, he would have been the Republican
      nominee and very likely re-elected to the Presidency in 1920. And THEN
      think of what might the US foreign and domestic policies have been!
      "For want of a nail, the shoe was lost..."
    • Martin Bayerle
      Hello TR aficionados, Here s a little bit of unknown, likely but still-to-be-more-fully-confirmed TR history: During the Russo-Japanese War, Japan had raised
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 15 5:34 PM
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      • JAMES SUMMERVILLE
        Dear friends, Anything my friend Gary Clinton has to say wins my attention. And I agree that TR s biggest political mistake was that announcement after his
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 15 5:46 PM
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          Dear friends,

          Anything my friend Gary Clinton has to say wins my
          attention. And I agree that TR's biggest political
          mistake was that announcement after his triumph in
          1904 that he would not run again.

          Succinctly, Gary summarizes the frustrated last years
          of TR. Even we who love him can hardly bear to read
          some of the screeds from his late years. But no one
          has assessed and better put this matter into
          perspective than his greatest biography, William
          Harbaugh.

          Counterfactual history is as idle as it is fun. Gary,
          you're probably right about a vigorous TR seizing the
          GOP nomination in 1920. But can you imagine him
          governing a country--let alone leading a progressive
          agenda--so wracked and torn by the war? At the time
          of his death, the United States was heading into
          nervous breakdown. (For a new study--set for April
          publication--of that terrible year, see Ann Hagedorn's
          _Savage Peace; Hope and Fear in America, 1919_. I'm
          working through review copy.)

          Thank you, Gary, for these stimulating thoughts.

          Every good wish,
          Jim
        • Linda Milano
          I have to agree with you Gary. The day TR died he was going through is personal papers in order to prepare for the upcoming 1920 election - he expected to be
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 15 9:08 PM
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            I have to agree with you Gary.  The day TR died he was going through is personal papers in order to prepare for the upcoming 1920 election - he expected to be nominated...
             
            Best,
            Linda Milano
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:48 PM
            Subject: [tr-m] TR's Great Mistakes


            Hello, everyone!
            I have to think the personal and political mistakes were one and the
            same: TR's statement immediately following the 1904 election that he
            would not be a candidate in 1908. Think of the impact: TR became, in
            many ways, a lame duck President, hostage to a ticking clock; this
            opened the door to Taft, which in turn led to a return of a less than
            progressive Republican party (which echoes down to this day); Taft in
            turn led to the 1912 election and TR's bitter split with the party;
            that in turn had a significant impact on the way TR was viewed by many
            Americans AND to the election of Wilson (BOO!!! HISS!!! a racist
            reactionary in the guise of a progressive) ; which in turn led to a
            period of TR's railing against the powers-that- be, and his becoming a
            rather shrill and frustrated (though very accurate) critic of the
            Nation's drifting self-image and ideals; this in turn led to a fairly
            dark period in TR'slife, when he knew he had lost favor with the
            American public. And, who knows, that may have contributed to his
            physical decline and eath (HEY!! go with me on this!!!)
            I do think, though, that TR's personality and message were
            strong enough that, had he lived, he would have been the Republican
            nominee and very likely re-elected to the Presidency in 1920. And THEN
            think of what might the US foreign and domestic policies have been!
            "For want of a nail, the shoe was lost..."

          • simonatl
            Along with the mistakes, I think the most frustrating and painful period in TR s life was from begining 1916 to his death. He saw other young boys going off to
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 17 1:41 PM
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              Along with the mistakes, I think the most frustrating and painful
              period in TR's life was from begining 1916 to his death. He saw other
              young boys going off to a war he couldn't fight in. You can see the
              tears in his eyes as he bids them farewell from the porch of
              Sagamore. And imagining hims with an arm around the neck of a horse
              in his barn weeping over his son's Quentin's death saying "poor
              Quentin". The fact that he had encourged him to fight even if it
              meant dying... Wow! No less sacrifice than today to some loved one
              who gets the news of a fighting man or woman killed in Iraq.

              --- In tr-m@yahoogroups.com, Linda Milano <lemilano@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have to agree with you Gary. The day TR died he was going
              through is personal papers in order to prepare for the upcoming 1920
              election - he expected to be nominated...
              >
              > Best,
              > Linda Milano
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: gclinton@...
              > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:48 PM
              > Subject: [tr-m] TR's Great Mistakes
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello, everyone!
              > I have to think the personal and political mistakes were one and
              the
              > same: TR's statement immediately following the 1904 election that
              he
              > would not be a candidate in 1908. Think of the impact: TR became,
              in
              > many ways, a lame duck President, hostage to a ticking clock;
              this
              > opened the door to Taft, which in turn led to a return of a less
              than
              > progressive Republican party (which echoes down to this day);
              Taft in
              > turn led to the 1912 election and TR's bitter split with the
              party;
              > that in turn had a significant impact on the way TR was viewed by
              many
              > Americans AND to the election of Wilson (BOO!!! HISS!!! a racist
              > reactionary in the guise of a progressive); which in turn led to
              a
              > period of TR's railing against the powers-that-be, and his
              becoming a
              > rather shrill and frustrated (though very accurate) critic of the
              > Nation's drifting self-image and ideals; this in turn led to a
              fairly
              > dark period in TR'slife, when he knew he had lost favor with the
              > American public. And, who knows, that may have contributed to his
              > physical decline and eath (HEY!! go with me on this!!!)
              > I do think, though, that TR's personality and message were
              > strong enough that, had he lived, he would have been the
              Republican
              > nominee and very likely re-elected to the Presidency in 1920. And
              THEN
              > think of what might the US foreign and domestic policies have
              been!
              > "For want of a nail, the shoe was lost..."
              >
            • John Willson
              I believe Linda is correct about TR s thoughts concerning the 1920 election. J. Hampton Moore in his book Roosevelt and the Old Guard relates a story of
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 20 7:54 AM
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                I believe Linda is correct about TR's thoughts concerning the 1920 election.
                 J. Hampton Moore in his book "Roosevelt and the Old Guard" relates a story of  retiring Solicitor-General James M. Beck, who was being urged to run for Governor of New York, going to Sagamore Hill to confer with the ex-President about the possibility. Roosevelt is reported to have told Beck that, "I don't want you to run for Governor because in all probability I will be the next President and, if I am, I want you to be the next Secretary of State."

                Linda Milano <lemilano@...> wrote:
                I have to agree with you Gary.  The day TR died he was going through is personal papers in order to prepare for the upcoming 1920 election - he expected to be nominated...
                 
                Best,
                Linda Milano
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:48 PM
                Subject: [tr-m] TR's Great Mistakes


                Hello, everyone!
                I have to think the personal and political mistakes were one and the
                same: TR's statement immediately following the 1904 election that he
                would not be a candidate in 1908. Think of the impact: TR became, in
                many ways, a lame duck President, hostage to a ticking clock; this
                opened the door to Taft, which in turn led to a return of a less than
                progressive Republican party (which echoes down to this day); Taft in
                turn led to the 1912 election and TR's bitter split with the party;
                that in turn had a significant impact on the way TR was viewed by many
                Americans AND to the election of Wilson (BOO!!! HISS!!! a racist
                reactionary in the guise of a progressive) ; which in turn led to a
                period of TR's railing against the powers-that- be, and his becoming a
                rather shrill and frustrated (though very accurate) critic of the
                Nation's drifting self-image and ideals; this in turn led to a fairly
                dark period in TR'slife, when he knew he had lost favor with the
                American public. And, who knows, that may have contributed to his
                physical decline and eath (HEY!! go with me on this!!!)
                I do think, though, that TR's personality and message were
                strong enough that, had he lived, he would have been the Republican
                nominee and very likely re-elected to the Presidency in 1920. And THEN
                think of what might the US foreign and domestic policies have been!
                "For want of a nail, the shoe was lost..."

              • Donald K. Hardin
                I agree. With three boys of my own fighting today and being familiar with TR s strong bond with his children, I cannot imagine anything that could/would have
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 22 7:37 AM
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                  I agree.  With three boys of my own fighting today and being familiar with TR's strong bond with his children, I cannot imagine anything that could/would have been more painful or tragic in his life than losing any of his offspring in a conflict in which he was denied to take part.


                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of simonatl
                  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:41 PM
                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [tr-m] Re: TR's Great Mistakes

                  Along with the mistakes, I think the most frustrating and painful
                  period in TR's life was from begining 1916 to his death. He saw other
                  young boys going off to a war he couldn't fight in. You can see the
                  tears in his eyes as he bids them farewell from the porch of
                  Sagamore. And imagining hims with an arm around the neck of a horse
                  in his barn weeping over his son's Quentin's death saying "poor
                  Quentin". The fact that he had encourged him to fight even if it
                  meant dying... Wow! No less sacrifice than today to some loved one
                  who gets the news of a fighting man or woman killed in Iraq.

                  --- In tr-m@yahoogroups. com, Linda Milano <lemilano@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have to agree with you Gary. The day TR died he was going
                  through is personal papers in order to prepare for the upcoming 1920
                  election - he expected to be nominated...
                  >
                  > Best,
                  > Linda Milano
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: gclinton@...
                  > To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:48 PM
                  > Subject: [tr-m] TR's Great Mistakes
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello, everyone!
                  > I have to think the personal and political mistakes were one and
                  the
                  > same: TR's statement immediately following the 1904 election that
                  he
                  > would not be a candidate in 1908. Think of the impact: TR became,
                  in
                  > many ways, a lame duck President, hostage to a ticking clock;
                  this
                  > opened the door to Taft, which in turn led to a return of a less
                  than
                  > progressive Republican party (which echoes down to this day);
                  Taft in
                  > turn led to the 1912 election and TR's bitter split with the
                  party;
                  > that in turn had a significant impact on the way TR was viewed by
                  many
                  > Americans AND to the election of Wilson (BOO!!! HISS!!! a racist
                  > reactionary in the guise of a progressive) ; which in turn led to
                  a
                  > period of TR's railing against the powers-that- be, and his
                  becoming a
                  > rather shrill and frustrated (though very accurate) critic of the
                  > Nation's drifting self-image and ideals; this in turn led to a
                  fairly
                  > dark period in TR'slife, when he knew he had lost favor with the
                  > American public. And, who knows, that may have contributed to his
                  > physical decline and eath (HEY!! go with me on this!!!)
                  > I do think, though, that TR's personality and message were
                  > strong enough that, had he lived, he would have been the
                  Republican
                  > nominee and very likely re-elected to the Presidency in 1920. And
                  THEN
                  > think of what might the US foreign and domestic policies have
                  been!
                  > "For want of a nail, the shoe was lost..."
                  >

                • Henry Hendrix
                  Having just completed my doctoral dissertation on topics related to TR s diplomacy, with one chapter dedicated to his role in the negotiations of the Russo
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 25 9:57 AM
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                    Having just completed my doctoral dissertation on topics related to TR's
                    diplomacy, with one chapter dedicated to his role in the negotiations of the
                    Russo Japanese Peace Treaty, I can say that this is the first that I have
                    heard of this theory. The facts don't bear it out well as the Japanese
                    economy was very stressed, very little cash reserves which is one of the
                    reasons the Japanese held out for so long in hopes of getting war
                    reparations from the Russians. TR and some of his contacts did go to great
                    efforts to line up loans for the Russians to pay reparations, but the
                    Russians did not bend on this matter,
                    vr
                    Henry Hendrix
                    Commander, USN
                    CO Tacron 11









                    >From: "Martin Bayerle" <bayerle@...>
                    >Reply-To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <tr-m@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: RE: [tr-m] TR's Great Mistakes
                    >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:34:51 -0500
                    >
                    >Hello TR aficionados,
                    >
                    >Here's a little bit of unknown, likely but
                    >still-to-be-more-fully-confirmed TR history:
                    >
                    >During the Russo-Japanese War, Japan had raised enormous war-chest funds
                    >on the New York market. When peace was concluded in September, 1905,
                    >$22 million remained to Japanese account in New York.
                    >
                    >This money was to be removed by Japan, for reinvestment in the Paris
                    >market, to open that market for Japanese financial needs, a market which
                    >had formerly been open only to Russian financial interests.
                    >
                    >This enormous amount of money removed from the New York market would
                    >have jeopardized market stability. So, a cover-story was developed.
                    >
                    >This would have required TR's consent
                    >
                    >See, for references: http://rms-republic.com/details_expnimp3.html.
                    >
                    >
                    >Regards,
                    >
                    >Martin
                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: gclinton@... [mailto:gclinton@...]
                    >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:49 PM
                    >To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [tr-m] TR's Great Mistakes
                    >
                    >
                    >Hello, everyone!
                    >I have to think the personal and political mistakes were one and the
                    >same: TR's statement immediately following the 1904 election that he
                    >would not be a candidate in 1908. Think of the impact: TR became, in
                    >many ways, a lame duck President, hostage to a ticking clock; this
                    >opened the door to Taft, which in turn led to a return of a less than
                    >progressive Republican party (which echoes down to this day); Taft in
                    >turn led to the 1912 election and TR's bitter split with the party;
                    >that in turn had a significant impact on the way TR was viewed by many
                    >Americans AND to the election of Wilson (BOO!!! HISS!!! a racist
                    >reactionary in the guise of a progressive); which in turn led to a
                    >period of TR's railing against the powers-that-be, and his becoming a
                    >rather shrill and frustrated (though very accurate) critic of the
                    >Nation's drifting self-image and ideals; this in turn led to a fairly
                    >dark period in TR'slife, when he knew he had lost favor with the
                    >American public. And, who knows, that may have contributed to his
                    >physical decline and eath (HEY!! go with me on this!!!)
                    >I do think, though, that TR's personality and message were
                    >strong enough that, had he lived, he would have been the Republican
                    >nominee and very likely re-elected to the Presidency in 1920. And THEN
                    >think of what might the US foreign and domestic policies have been!
                    >"For want of a nail, the shoe was lost..."
                    >

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