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Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?

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  • Harry Lembeck
    I m not so sure Linda. He was a business lawyer, that s for sure. (Opposed the Hepburn Act.) And it s true, he may have wanted to somehow weaken TR s
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 12, 2007
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      I'm not so sure Linda. He was a "business" lawyer, that's for sure.
      (Opposed the Hepburn Act.) And it's true, he may have wanted to
      somehow weaken TR's ability to controi the 1908 nomination so that he
      (Foraker) would have a better chance to secure it. But I honestly
      think their was some sincerity also in what he did.

      Harry
      On Feb 12, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Linda Milano wrote:

      > Then again, Foraker was in the pocket of Sun Oil.  His defense of the
      > 25th Infantry had less to do with being the champion of the soldiers
      > and more to do with the embarrassment of the President.
      >  
      > Best,
      > Linda Milano
      >  
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >> From: Harry Lembeck
      >> To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
      >> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:32 AM
      >> Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest
      >> Mistakes - Personal & Political?
      >>
      >> The disgrace of Brownsville was compounded by what he afterwards did
      >> to the black regiments defender, Sen. Joseph Foraker of Ohio. Among
      >> other things, the President had the secret service tamper with the
      >> senator's mail and case his house to see who came and went. And while
      >> TR was disappointed with Holmes on the Supreme Court, Holmes gave him
      >> a going away present. In 1909, just before TR left the Presidency,
      >> Holmes wrote the opinion by which the Supreme Court indirectly upheld
      >> what TR did to the black 25th Infantry by disallowing a claim for pay
      >> by one of the unit's soldiers.
      >>
      >> Harry Lembeck
      >> On Feb 11, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Henry Hendrix wrote:
      >>
      >>> The courts martial of the african american regiment for the
      >>> 'incident' in
      >>> Brownsville is, without a doubt, TR's most agregious mistake.
      >>> After that, he would probably say his appointment of Oliver Holmes
      >>> Jr to the
      >>> Supreme Court was a mistake, history proved him wrong on that one.
      >>> From a military standpoint, his attempt to do away with the Marine
      >>> Corps
      >>> still reverberates to this day, which is unfortunate given the
      >>> sophistication that he displayed utilizing the Corps.
      >>> r
      >>> Jerry
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>> From: "simonatl" <simonatl@...>
      >>>> Reply-To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
      >>>> To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
      >>>> Subject: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes
      >>>> -
      >>>> Personal & Political?
      >>>> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:17:18 -0000
      >>>>
      >>>> No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in
      >>>> 1999,
      >>>> Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
      >>>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      >>>> tr-m-unsubscribe@...
      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>> _________________________________________________________________
      >>> From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
      >>> to the
      >>> Academy Awards®
      >>> http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
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      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >
    • Harry Lembeck
      He regretted the decision, made on a sincere belief the precedent set by President Washington was one to follow and also on impulse immediately after the 1904
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 12, 2007
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        He regretted the decision, made on a sincere belief the precedent set
        by President Washington was one to follow and also on impulse
        immediately after the 1904 election results came in.

        Harry Lembeck
        On Feb 12, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Jarmon, Joshua wrote:

        > I think TR's most glaring mistake was vowing not to seek a third term
        > in 1912. I have always felt that he could have gotten the necessary
        > support to get the complete backing of the party. Does anyone have any
        > other insight into what led TR to make the initial decision regarding
        > his third term?
        >
        > ________________________________
        >
        > From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of simonatl
        > Sent: Sun 2/11/2007 10:17 AM
        > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes -
        > Personal & Political?
        >
        > No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
        > Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
        >
        > <winmail.dat>
      • Jarmon, Joshua
        I guess the debate should be whether it was a mistake for TR to run for a second elected term. Had he not made the statements in question, I wonder if his
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 12, 2007
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          I guess the debate should be whether it was a mistake for TR to run for a second elected term. Had he not made the statements in question, I wonder if his critics would have labeled him as "power hungry".

          ________________________________

          From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Harry Lembeck
          Sent: Mon 2/12/2007 10:14 AM
          To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?


          He regretted the decision, made on a sincere belief the precedent set by President Washington was one to follow and also on impulse immediately after the 1904 election results came in.

          Harry Lembeck
          On Feb 12, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Jarmon, Joshua wrote:


          I think TR's most glaring mistake was vowing not to seek a third term in 1912. I have always felt that he could have gotten the necessary support to get the complete backing of the party. Does anyone have any other insight into what led TR to make the initial decision regarding his third term?



          ________________________________



          From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of simonatl


          Sent: Sun 2/11/2007 10:17 AM


          To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com


          Subject: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?



          No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,


          Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?



          <winmail.dat>
        • DRVOTE@MINDSPRING.COM
          I had not heard about TR trying to do away with the Marine Corps. Could someone provide me with the full details or a link to a source to find out more about
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 12, 2007
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            I had not heard about TR trying to do away with the Marine Corps.
            Could someone provide me with the full details or a link to a source
            to find out more about this?
            Why would he do this? He held the military in such high regard.
            I can't imagine why he would want to do this except maybe to
            increase the size of the Navy, which was his first love.

            All the best,
            John Olsen





            -----Original Message-----
            From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
            Henry Hendrix
            Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:34 PM
            To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes
            - Personal & Political?


            The courts martial of the african american regiment for the 'incident' in
            Brownsville is, without a doubt, TR's most agregious mistake.
            After that, he would probably say his appointment of Oliver Holmes Jr to the
            Supreme Court was a mistake, history proved him wrong on that one.
            From a military standpoint, his attempt to do away with the Marine Corps
            still reverberates to this day, which is unfortunate given the
            sophistication that he displayed utilizing the Corps.
            r
            Jerry









            >From: "simonatl" <simonatl@...>
            >Reply-To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            >To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes -
            >Personal & Political?
            >Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:17:18 -0000
            >
            >No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
            >Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
            >
            >
            >
            >To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
            >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >

            _________________________________________________________________
            From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
            Academy Awards®
            http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1



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          • Henry Hendrix
            TR made the strategic mistake of conceptualizing the Marine Corps predominantly as a ground force rather than naval infantry/security, and hence felt it should
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 13, 2007
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              TR made the strategic mistake of conceptualizing the Marine Corps
              predominantly as a ground force rather than naval infantry/security, and
              hence felt it should be aligned under the Army. In 1908 he signed an
              executive order removing Marines from all capital ships as a preliminary
              step towards transfering them to the Army. This decision was reversed by
              Taft in 1909. While the incident is seldom remembered or discussed in
              historical circles, the Marines have never forgotten and TR remains a
              controversial figure to them. Also, from a constitutional law perspective,
              this case is remembered for the firestorm it set off between the executive
              branch and the legislature over the extent of the executive to issue
              'executive orders' without congressional sanction. An ok secondary source
              on this is LCOL kenneth J. Clifford's (USMCR) 'Progress and Purpose: A
              Developmental History of the United States Marine Corps 1900-1970.' pp. 2-5.
              r
              Jerry









              >From: <DRVOTE@...>
              >Reply-To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <tr-m@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes -
              >Personal & Political?
              >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:19:12 -0900
              >
              >I had not heard about TR trying to do away with the Marine Corps.
              >Could someone provide me with the full details or a link to a source
              >to find out more about this?
              >Why would he do this? He held the military in such high regard.
              >I can't imagine why he would want to do this except maybe to
              >increase the size of the Navy, which was his first love.
              >
              > All the best,
              > John Olsen
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
              >Henry Hendrix
              >Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:34 PM
              >To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes
              >- Personal & Political?
              >
              >
              >The courts martial of the african american regiment for the 'incident' in
              >Brownsville is, without a doubt, TR's most agregious mistake.
              >After that, he would probably say his appointment of Oliver Holmes Jr to
              >the
              >Supreme Court was a mistake, history proved him wrong on that one.
              >From a military standpoint, his attempt to do away with the Marine Corps
              >still reverberates to this day, which is unfortunate given the
              >sophistication that he displayed utilizing the Corps.
              >r
              >Jerry
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >From: "simonatl" <simonatl@...>
              > >Reply-To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes -
              > >Personal & Political?
              > >Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:17:18 -0000
              > >
              > >No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
              > >Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
              > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >_________________________________________________________________
              >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
              >Academy Awards�
              >http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
              >
              >
              >
              >To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
              >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
              >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >

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            • Harry Lembeck
              Today, I understand there are no Marine detachments aboard navy ships. Nor are Marines any longer in charge of security for navy installations. In Vietnam,
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 13, 2007
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                Today, I understand there are no Marine detachments aboard navy ships.
                Nor are Marines any longer in charge of security for navy
                installations. In Vietnam, the Marines were cast in the role of the
                army - sustained ground combat - and had to rethink everything from the
                size of their weapons (e.g., until maybe 4 years after they arrived in
                Vietnam, Marines had no 175 mm. guns like the army had from day one) to
                their supply chain (no longer could a Marine depend on what he carried
                to the beach, because he no longer was going to go back aboard ship
                when the objective was taken). In short, the Marine Corps became in
                many respects just like the army.

                Of course, there are reasons to maintain the Marine Corps anyway. But
                TR was awfully farsighted, because evidently he could see the
                transformation where Marines became more like soldiers and the Marine
                Corps became more like the army.

                Harry Lembeck
                On Feb 13, 2007, at 10:04 AM, Henry Hendrix wrote:

                > TR made the strategic mistake of conceptualizing the Marine Corps
                > predominantly as a ground force rather than naval infantry/security,
                > and
                > hence felt it should be aligned under the Army. In 1908 he signed an
                > executive order removing Marines from all capital ships as a
                > preliminary
                > step towards transfering them to the Army. This decision was reversed
                > by
                > Taft in 1909. While the incident is seldom remembered or discussed in
                > historical circles, the Marines have never forgotten and TR remains a
                > controversial figure to them. Also, from a constitutional law
                > perspective,
                > this case is remembered for the firestorm it set off between the
                > executive
                > branch and the legislature over the extent of the executive to issue
                > 'executive orders' without congressional sanction. An ok secondary
                > source
                > on this is LCOL kenneth J. Clifford's (USMCR) 'Progress and Purpose: A
                > Developmental History of the United States Marine Corps 1900-1970.'
                > pp. 2-5.
                > r
                > Jerry
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >> From: <DRVOTE@...>
                >> Reply-To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                >> To: <tr-m@yahoogroups.com>
                >> Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest
                >> Mistakes -
                >> Personal & Political?
                >> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:19:12 -0900
                >>
                >> I had not heard about TR trying to do away with the Marine Corps.
                >> Could someone provide me with the full details or a link to a source
                >> to find out more about this?
                >> Why would he do this? He held the military in such high regard.
                >> I can't imagine why he would want to do this except maybe to
                >> increase the size of the Navy, which was his first love.
                >>
                >> All the best,
                >> John Olsen
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> -----Original Message-----
                >> From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                >> Henry Hendrix
                >> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:34 PM
                >> To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                >> Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest
                >> Mistakes
                >> - Personal & Political?
                >>
                >>
                >> The courts martial of the african american regiment for the
                >> 'incident' in
                >> Brownsville is, without a doubt, TR's most agregious mistake.
                >> After that, he would probably say his appointment of Oliver Holmes Jr
                >> to
                >> the
                >> Supreme Court was a mistake, history proved him wrong on that one.
                >> From a military standpoint, his attempt to do away with the Marine
                >> Corps
                >> still reverberates to this day, which is unfortunate given the
                >> sophistication that he displayed utilizing the Corps.
                >> r
                >> Jerry
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>> From: "simonatl" <simonatl@...>
                >>> Reply-To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                >>> To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                >>> Subject: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes -
                >>> Personal & Political?
                >>> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:17:18 -0000
                >>>
                >>> No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in
                >>> 1999,
                >>> Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...
                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >> _________________________________________________________________
                >> From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
                >> to the
                >> Academy Awards®
                >> http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> To Post a message, send it to: tr-m@...
                >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: tr-m-unsubscribe@...
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
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                > source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
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                >
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              • John Willson
                I believe TR s greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her tragic death in 1884,
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 15, 2007
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                  I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may have had on their daughter, Alice.
                   
                  I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.
                   

                  simonatl <simonatl@...> wrote:
                  No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
                  Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?


                • Harry Lembeck
                  Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR s worst mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said about the 1912 split,
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 15, 2007
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                    Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR's worst
                    mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said
                    about the 1912 split, which led to Wlison.
                    On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, John Willson wrote:

                    >> I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological
                    >> avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her
                    >> tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may
                    >> have had on their daughter, Alice. 
                    > I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind
                    > of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism
                    > leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the
                    > Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of
                    > the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.
                    >  
                    >
                    > simonatl <simonatl@...> wrote:
                    >> No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
                    >> Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    Harry
                  • Jeremy Johnston
                    I am going to put a different spin on this...I think TR s biggest mistake was going back to the Republican Party in 1916 and campaigning for Hughes! (My
                    Message 9 of 21 , Feb 15, 2007
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                      I am going to put a different spin on this...I think TR's biggest mistake was going back to the Republican Party in 1916 and campaigning for Hughes! (My sincerest apologies to my Republican friends) By going back to the Republican party, TR destroyed the Progressive Party, a.k.a. the Bull Moose Party. Wilson simply countered TR's actions by passing through a number of progressive reforms to win over the progressives who were disheartened by TR's bolt back to the Republicans. That, in addition to the "He Kept Us Out of the War" slogan, paved the way for a second Wilson term. What if TR stayed with the Progressive Party? Would we continue to have this vibrant political party with us today? Imagine having a significant third choice in our American political arena. This would have been a tremendous political legacy left to the American public by TR.

                      Jeremy Johnston
                      Assistant Professor of History
                      Northwest College
                      231 West 6th Street
                      Powell, WY 82435
                      (307)754-6008
                      jeremy.johnston@...
                      Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu
                      History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history

                      ________________________________

                      From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Harry Lembeck
                      Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 11:41 AM
                      To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?


                      Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR's worst mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said about the 1912 split, which led to Wlison.
                      On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, John Willson wrote:


                      I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may have had on their daughter, Alice.


                      I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.






                      simonatl <simonatl@...> wrote:


                      No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,


                      Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?






                      Harry
                    • Harry Lembeck
                      And to this day, Wilson is called a progressive, even though he may have been anything but. Harry
                      Message 10 of 21 , Feb 15, 2007
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                        And to this day, Wilson is called a progressive, even though he may
                        have been anything but.

                        Harry
                        On Feb 15, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Jeremy Johnston wrote:

                        > I am going to put a different spin on this...I think TR's biggest
                        > mistake was going back to the Republican Party in 1916 and campaigning
                        > for Hughes! (My sincerest apologies to my Republican friends) By going
                        > back to the Republican party, TR destroyed the Progressive Party,
                        > a.k.a. the Bull Moose Party. Wilson simply countered TR's actions by
                        > passing through a number of progressive reforms to win over the
                        > progressives who were disheartened by TR's bolt back to the
                        > Republicans. That, in addition to the "He Kept Us Out of the War"
                        > slogan, paved the way for a second Wilson term. What if TR stayed with
                        > the Progressive Party? Would we continue to have this vibrant
                        > political party with us today? Imagine having a significant third
                        > choice in our American political arena. This would have been a
                        > tremendous political legacy left to the American public by TR.
                        >
                        > Jeremy Johnston
                        > Assistant Professor of History
                        > Northwest College
                        > 231 West 6th Street
                        > Powell, WY 82435
                        > (307)754-6008
                        > jeremy.johnston@...
                        > Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu
                        > History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        >
                        > From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Harry Lembeck
                        > Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 11:41 AM
                        > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest
                        > Mistakes - Personal & Political?
                        >
                        > Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR's worst
                        > mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said
                        > about the 1912 split, which led to Wlison.
                        > On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, John Willson wrote:
                        >
                        > I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological
                        > avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her
                        > tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may
                        > have had on their daughter, Alice.
                        >
                        > I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind
                        > of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism
                        > leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the
                        > Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of
                        > the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > simonatl <simonatl@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
                        >
                        > Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Harry
                        > <winmail.dat>
                      • Linda Milano
                        OK - as for not mentioning Alice Lee - he brought his second wife, Edith, to a home he had planned with his first wife. Their everyday serving pieces at meals
                        Message 11 of 21 , Feb 15, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          OK - as for not mentioning Alice Lee - he brought his second wife, Edith, to a home he had planned with his first wife.  Their everyday serving pieces at meals were actually wedding gifts from his first marriage.  Edith's sitting room was actually the room Alice had planned as hers.  Edith was raising Alice's child as her own.  To a certain extent, this reticence was more out of respect for Edith than an avoidance on his part.
                           
                          You must remember, that by the time she got married, his daughter had all of her parents' correspondence and all of her father's journals from the day he met her mother to when her mother died.  Also, at the end of her life she opened her photo albums to a biographer - she had several pictures of her parents together, which she had claimed for years that she had never seen.
                           
                          Best,
                          Linda Milano
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:50 PM
                          Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?

                          I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may have had on their daughter, Alice.
                           
                          I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.
                           

                          simonatl <simonatl@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
                          Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?


                        • John Willson
                          The Progressive Party was clobbered in every State but California in the 1914 mid-term elections. TR wisely realized that the party was over (no pun intended)
                          Message 12 of 21 , Feb 19, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            The Progressive Party was clobbered in every State but California in the 1914 mid-term elections. TR wisely realized that the party was over (no pun intended) and refused to accept the Progressive Party nomination for President in 1916. To suggest that TR should have done otherwise and that he could have revived the failing Party is naive.
                            Those who hold this view should certainly read chapters 9 & 10 of John Gable's scholarly work, "The Bull Moose Years."

                            Jeremy Johnston <jeremy.johnston@...> wrote:
                            I am going to put a different spin on this...I think TR's biggest mistake was going back to the Republican Party in 1916 and campaigning for Hughes! (My sincerest apologies to my Republican friends) By going back to the Republican party, TR destroyed the Progressive Party, a.k.a. the Bull Moose Party. Wilson simply countered TR's actions by passing through a number of progressive reforms to win over the progressives who were disheartened by TR's bolt back to the Republicans. That, in addition to the "He Kept Us Out of the War" slogan, paved the way for a second Wilson term. What if TR stayed with the Progressive Party? Would we continue to have this vibrant political party with us today? Imagine having a significant third choice in our American political arena. This would have been a tremendous political legacy left to the American public by TR.

                            Jeremy Johnston
                            Assistant Professor of History
                            Northwest College
                            231 West 6th Street
                            Powell, WY 82435
                            (307)754-6008
                            jeremy.johnston@ northwestcollege .edu
                            Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcolleg e.edu
                            History Homepage: www.northwestcolleg e.edu/area/ history

                            ____________ _________ _________ __

                            From: tr-m@yahoogroups. com on behalf of Harry Lembeck
                            Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 11:41 AM
                            To: tr-m@yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?

                            Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR's worst mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said about the 1912 split, which led to Wlison.
                            On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, John Willson wrote:

                            I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may have had on their daughter, Alice.

                            I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.



                            simonatl <simonatl@yahoo. com> wrote:

                            No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,

                            Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?



                            Harry

                          • Jeremy Johnston
                            When one engages in the art of speculative history, naiveté can be forgiven. Discussing what may have happened in the past only if? is fun but one must
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 20, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              When one engages in the art of speculative history, naiveté can be forgiven. Discussing "what may have happened in the past only if?" is fun but one must keep in mind their theories can never be proven.



                              As for the 1914 elections, we must keep in mind that this year was a disaster for the Democrats as well. In his book Woodrow Wilson and the Progressive Era, Arthur Link notes "the Democrats made such a poor showing in the state and Congressional elections on November 3 that their defeat in 1916 seemed almost certain." (page 78) The real winners in the 1914 elections were the Old Guard of the Republican Party and if I were TR I certainly would have bolted back to the Republicans at this point. Anyone in their right mind would have left the Progressive Party at this time. I have to give him credit for waiting until 1916 to officially disband the Progressive Party!



                              Despite the great loss in 1914, the progressive movement played an important role in swinging California to Wilson in 1916. I quote George Mowry from his book Theodore Roosevelt and the Progressive Movement: "Traditional interpretation has it that Wilson won the West because of his stand upon the European war. It might also be said that Hughes lost the West because he failed to win the support of the erstwhile Progressives...Had Hughes carried California he would have won the election. And there is little doubt that in California Progressive resentment at Hughes helped to spell disaster for the Republican Party." (page 362) Wilson, who was a crafty politician, passed through a number of social issues supported by Progressives in the year 1916, helping him win over those progressives alienated by TR's switch back to the Republican Party. Ever wonder why Wilson, who cared very little about environmental issues, signed the bill creating the National Park Service in 1916? I argue that he signed the bill to win over Progressives for the 1916 elections. At the very least, I think we could say the progressive movement, if not the Progressive Party, still influenced the national political scene.



                              Now, what if Hughes won in 1916? What role would TR have played in the Hughes Administration? How would he have handled the Great War with the Republicans in power? Even if TR did abandon the Progressive Party, just by maintaining some semblance of a political connection with the Progressives could have changed the outcome of the 1916 election.



                              In regard to TR as President in 1920, there is a wonderful article by Matthew J. Glover entitled "What Might Have Been: Theodore Roosevelt's Platform for 1920." It is located in the book Theodore Roosevelt: Many Sided American, a collection of papers presented at the 1990 conference "Theodore Roosevelt and the birth of Modern America." Glover makes a valid argument that TR would have had a hard time winning over the conservative element of the Republican Party, especially on social issues, during an imagined 1920 election.









                              Jeremy Johnston
                              Assistant Professor of History
                              Northwest College
                              231 West 6th Street
                              Powell, WY 82435
                              (307)754-6008
                              jeremy.johnston@...
                              Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu
                              History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history

                              ________________________________

                              From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of John Willson
                              Sent: Mon 2/19/2007 8:50 PM
                              To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?



                              The Progressive Party was clobbered in every State but California in the 1914 mid-term elections. TR wisely realized that the party was over (no pun intended) and refused to accept the Progressive Party nomination for President in 1916. To suggest that TR should have done otherwise and that he could have revived the failing Party is naive.
                              Those who hold this view should certainly read chapters 9 & 10 of John Gable's scholarly work, "The Bull Moose Years."

                              Jeremy Johnston <jeremy.johnston@...> wrote:

                              I am going to put a different spin on this...I think TR's biggest mistake was going back to the Republican Party in 1916 and campaigning for Hughes! (My sincerest apologies to my Republican friends) By going back to the Republican party, TR destroyed the Progressive Party, a.k.a. the Bull Moose Party. Wilson simply countered TR's actions by passing through a number of progressive reforms to win over the progressives who were disheartened by TR's bolt back to the Republicans. That, in addition to the "He Kept Us Out of the War" slogan, paved the way for a second Wilson term. What if TR stayed with the Progressive Party? Would we continue to have this vibrant political party with us today? Imagine having a significant third choice in our American political arena. This would have been a tremendous political legacy left to the American public by TR.

                              Jeremy Johnston
                              Assistant Professor of History
                              Northwest College
                              231 West 6th Street
                              Powell, WY 82435
                              (307)754-6008
                              jeremy.johnston@... <mailto:jeremy.johnston%40northwestcollege.edu>
                              Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu
                              History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history

                              ________________________________

                              From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Harry Lembeck
                              Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 11:41 AM
                              To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?

                              Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR's worst mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said about the 1912 split, which led to Wlison.
                              On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, John Willson wrote:

                              I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may have had on their daughter, Alice.

                              I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.



                              simonatl <simonatl@... <mailto:simonatl%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                              No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,

                              Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?



                              Harry
                            • Harry Lembeck
                              I d have to think about Professor Link s comments. It s hard to believe the 1914 mid-term election was a disaster for Democrats. We should keep in mind that
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 21, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I'd have to think about Professor Link's comments. It's hard to
                                believe the 1914 mid-term election was a disaster for Democrats. We
                                should keep in mind that between 1860 and 1932, only two Democrats were
                                elected President - Cleveland and Wilson. That's 72 years of disaster,
                                so why should 1914 stand out? And President Wilson was reelected only
                                two years later. So how bad could 1914 have been for the Democrats?
                                They won in 1916, and when they lost in 1920, it was by then a
                                different world and whatever took place 6 years earlier had nothing to
                                do with it.

                                I might also suggest that by 1920, progressivism was a spent force, and
                                may well have been on its way out as early as 1916. The Progressive
                                Party itself was gone. Harding was hardly progressive. And the
                                old-guard Republicans controlled Congress. Even the term "progressive"
                                itself was gone. They now called themselves "liberals" - and still do.

                                My "what if" question is whom TR would have picked for VP in 1920? If
                                TR had won, but then died because he was, in fact, a sick man, the VP
                                would have been President, just as Calvin Coolidge was when President
                                Harding died in office.

                                Harry
                                On Feb 20, 2007, at 8:54 PM, Jeremy Johnston wrote:

                                > When one engages in the art of speculative history, naiveté can be
                                > forgiven. Discussing "what may have happened in the past only if?" is
                                > fun but one must keep in mind their theories can never be proven.
                                >
                                > As for the 1914 elections, we must keep in mind that this year was a
                                > disaster for the Democrats as well. In his book Woodrow Wilson and the
                                > Progressive Era, Arthur Link notes "the Democrats made such a poor
                                > showing in the state and Congressional elections on November 3 that
                                > their defeat in 1916 seemed almost certain." (page 78) The real
                                > winners in the 1914 elections were the Old Guard of the Republican
                                > Party and if I were TR I certainly would have bolted back to the
                                > Republicans at this point. Anyone in their right mind would have left
                                > the Progressive Party at this time. I have to give him credit for
                                > waiting until 1916 to officially disband the Progressive Party!
                                >
                                > Despite the great loss in 1914, the progressive movement played an
                                > important role in swinging California to Wilson in 1916. I quote
                                > George Mowry from his book Theodore Roosevelt and the Progressive
                                > Movement: "Traditional interpretation has it that Wilson won the West
                                > because of his stand upon the European war. It might also be said that
                                > Hughes lost the West because he failed to win the support of the
                                > erstwhile Progressives...Had Hughes carried California he would have
                                > won the election. And there is little doubt that in California
                                > Progressive resentment at Hughes helped to spell disaster for the
                                > Republican Party." (page 362) Wilson, who was a crafty politician,
                                > passed through a number of social issues supported by Progressives in
                                > the year 1916, helping him win over those progressives alienated by
                                > TR's switch back to the Republican Party. Ever wonder why Wilson, who
                                > cared very little about environmental issues, signed the bill creating
                                > the National Park Service in 1916? I argue that he signed the bill to
                                > win over Progressives for the 1916 elections. At the very least, I
                                > think we could say the progressive movement, if not the Progressive
                                > Party, still influenced the national political scene.
                                >
                                > Now, what if Hughes won in 1916? What role would TR have played in
                                > the Hughes Administration? How would he have handled the Great War
                                > with the Republicans in power? Even if TR did abandon the Progressive
                                > Party, just by maintaining some semblance of a political connection
                                > with the Progressives could have changed the outcome of the 1916
                                > election.
                                >
                                > In regard to TR as President in 1920, there is a wonderful article by
                                > Matthew J. Glover entitled "What Might Have Been: Theodore Roosevelt's
                                > Platform for 1920." It is located in the book Theodore Roosevelt: Many
                                > Sided American, a collection of papers presented at the 1990
                                > conference "Theodore Roosevelt and the birth of Modern America."
                                > Glover makes a valid argument that TR would have had a hard time
                                > winning over the conservative element of the Republican Party,
                                > especially on social issues, during an imagined 1920 election.
                                >
                                > Jeremy Johnston
                                > Assistant Professor of History
                                > Northwest College
                                > 231 West 6th Street
                                > Powell, WY 82435
                                > (307)754-6008
                                > jeremy.johnston@...
                                > Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu
                                > History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                >
                                > From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of John Willson
                                > Sent: Mon 2/19/2007 8:50 PM
                                > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest
                                > Mistakes - Personal & Political?
                                >
                                > The Progressive Party was clobbered in every State but California in
                                > the 1914 mid-term elections. TR wisely realized that the party was
                                > over (no pun intended) and refused to accept the Progressive Party
                                > nomination for President in 1916. To suggest that TR should have done
                                > otherwise and that he could have revived the failing Party is naive.
                                > Those who hold this view should certainly read chapters 9 & 10 of
                                > John Gable's scholarly work, "The Bull Moose Years."
                                >
                                > Jeremy Johnston <jeremy.johnston@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I am going to put a different spin on this...I think TR's biggest
                                > mistake was going back to the Republican Party in 1916 and campaigning
                                > for Hughes! (My sincerest apologies to my Republican friends) By going
                                > back to the Republican party, TR destroyed the Progressive Party,
                                > a.k.a. the Bull Moose Party. Wilson simply countered TR's actions by
                                > passing through a number of progressive reforms to win over the
                                > progressives who were disheartened by TR's bolt back to the
                                > Republicans. That, in addition to the "He Kept Us Out of the War"
                                > slogan, paved the way for a second Wilson term. What if TR stayed with
                                > the Progressive Party? Would we continue to have this vibrant
                                > political party with us today? Imagine having a significant third
                                > choice in our American political arena. This would have been a
                                > tremendous political legacy left to the American public by TR.
                                >
                                > Jeremy Johnston
                                > Assistant Professor of History
                                > Northwest College
                                > 231 West 6th Street
                                > Powell, WY 82435
                                > (307)754-6008
                                > jeremy.johnston@...
                                > <mailto:jeremy.johnston%40northwestcollege.edu>
                                > Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu
                                > History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                >
                                > From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf
                                > of Harry Lembeck
                                > Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 11:41 AM
                                > To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest
                                > Mistakes - Personal & Political?
                                >
                                > Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR's worst
                                > mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said
                                > about the 1912 split, which led to Wlison.
                                > On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, John Willson wrote:
                                >
                                > I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological
                                > avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her
                                > tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may
                                > have had on their daughter, Alice.
                                >
                                > I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind
                                > of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism
                                > leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the
                                > Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of
                                > the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > simonatl <simonatl@... <mailto:simonatl%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
                                >
                                > No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,
                                >
                                > Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Harry
                                >
                                >
                                > <winmail.dat>
                              • Jeremy Johnston
                                Harry, Perhaps disaster is too harsh of a term but 1914 was a serious setback for the Democratic Party, especially in the House of Representatives. The
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 21, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Harry,

                                  Perhaps disaster is too harsh of a term but 1914 was a serious setback for the Democratic Party, especially in the House of Representatives.  The Democrats lost 61 seats in the House, reducing their majority from 75 to 25 seats.  Although the Democrats still controlled both houses, the Republicans made significant gains in the House and won back some of the seats in the Senate that they lost in 1912.  Wilson argued the 1914 election was a victory for himself and the Democrats but he clearly worried about the loss of Democratic seats in Congress.  Link argued this loss caused Wilson to pass through a second round of progressive reforms before the 1916 elections securing much needed support to be re-elected in 1916.  Keep in mind that Wilson proclaimed an end to progressive reform in the autumn of 1914, just before the elections.  Yet by 1916, Wilson and the Democrats reinvigorated progressive reform hoping to win over progressives to ensure a victory over the Republicans in the 1916 elections.  According to Link, “by the fall of 1916, [Democrats and Wilson] enacted almost every plank in the Progressive platform of 1912.” (page 229)   Bottom line here, Wilson was a progressive when he needed the political support to stay in office.   Wilson was very adept at using Roosevelt ’s ideas to benefit his political stance as a progressive.  Unfortunately, most of the Wilson biographies gloss over Wilson ’s role as a progressive and instead focus on his handling of the Great War.

                                   

                                  Hope you and yours are doing well.  I am going to jump to the conclusion that the weather in Atlanta is a little warmer than it is here in Wyoming ;)       

                                   


                                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tr-m@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Lembeck
                                  Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:18 AM
                                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?

                                   

                                  I'd have to think about Professor Link's comments. It's hard to believe the 1914 mid-term election was a disaster for Democrats. We should keep in mind that between 1860 and 1932, only two Democrats were elected President - Cleveland and Wilson. That's 72 years of disaster, so why should 1914 stand out? And President Wilson was reelected only two years later. So how bad could 1914 have been for the Democrats? They won in 1916, and when they lost in 1920, it was by then a different world and whatever took place 6 years earlier had nothing to do with it.

                                   

                                  I might also suggest that by 1920, progressivism was a spent force, and may well have been on its way out as early as 1916. The Progressive Party itself was gone. Harding was hardly progressive. And the old-guard Republicans controlled Congress. Even the term "progressive" itself was gone. They now called themselves "liberals" - and still do.

                                   

                                  My "what if" question is whom TR would have picked for VP in 1920? If TR had won, but then died because he was, in fact, a sick man, the VP would have been President, just as Calvin Coolidge was when President Harding died in office.

                                   

                                  Harry

                                  On Feb 20, 2007, at 8:54 PM, Jeremy Johnston wrote:

                                   

                                  When one engages in the art of speculative history, naiveté can be forgiven. Discussing "what may have happened in the past only if?" is fun but one must keep in mind their theories can never be proven.

                                   

                                  As for the 1914 elections, we must keep in mind that this year was a disaster for the Democrats as well. In his book Woodrow Wilson and the Progressive Era, Arthur Link notes "the Democrats made such a poor showing in the state and Congressional elections on November 3 that their defeat in 1916 seemed almost certain." (page 78) The real winners in the 1914 elections were the Old Guard of the Republican Party and if I were TR I certainly would have bolted back to the Republicans at this point. Anyone in their right mind would have left the Progressive Party at this time. I have to give him credit for waiting until 1916 to officially disband the Progressive Party!

                                   

                                  Despite the great loss in 1914, the progressive movement played an important role in swinging California to Wilson in 1916. I quote George Mowry from his book Theodore Roosevelt and the Progressive Movement: "Traditional interpretation has it that Wilson won the West because of his stand upon the European war. It might also be said that Hughes lost the West because he failed to win the support of the erstwhile Progressives...Had Hughes carried California he would have won the election. And there is little doubt that in California Progressive resentment at Hughes helped to spell disaster for the Republican Party." (page 362) Wilson, who was a crafty politician, passed through a number of social issues supported by Progressives in the year 1916, helping him win over those progressives alienated by TR's switch back to the Republican Party. Ever wonder why Wilson, who cared very little about environmental issues, signed the bill creating the National Park Service in 1916? I argue that he signed the bill to win over Progressives for the 1916 elections. At the very least, I think we could say the progressive movement, if not the Progressive Party, still influenced the national political scene.

                                   

                                  Now, what if Hughes won in 1916? What role would TR have played in the Hughes Administration? How would he have handled the Great War with the Republicans in power? Even if TR did abandon the Progressive Party, just by maintaining some semblance of a political connection with the Progressives could have changed the outcome of the 1916 election.

                                   

                                  In regard to TR as President in 1920, there is a wonderful article by Matthew J. Glover entitled "What Might Have Been: Theodore Roosevelt's Platform for 1920." It is located in the book Theodore Roosevelt: Many Sided American, a collection of papers presented at the 1990 conference "Theodore Roosevelt and the birth of Modern America." Glover makes a valid argument that TR would have had a hard time winning over the conservative element of the Republican Party, especially on social issues, during an imagined 1920 election.

                                   

                                  Jeremy Johnston

                                   

                                  Assistant Professor of History

                                   

                                  Northwest College

                                   

                                  231 West 6th Street

                                   

                                  Powell, WY 82435

                                   

                                  (307)754-6008

                                   

                                  jeremy.johnston@northwestcollege.edu

                                   

                                  Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu

                                   

                                  History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history

                                   

                                  ________________________________

                                   

                                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com on behalf of John Willson

                                   

                                  Sent: Mon 2/19/2007 8:50 PM

                                   

                                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com

                                   

                                  Subject: RE: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?

                                   

                                  The Progressive Party was clobbered in every State but California in the 1914 mid-term elections. TR wisely realized that the party was over (no pun intended) and refused to accept the Progressive Party nomination for President in 1916. To suggest that TR should have done otherwise and that he could have revived the failing Party is naive.

                                   

                                  Those who hold this view should certainly read chapters 9 & 10 of John Gable's scholarly work, "The Bull Moose Years."

                                   

                                  Jeremy Johnston <jeremy.johnston@northwestcollege.edu> wrote:

                                   

                                  I am going to put a different spin on this...I think TR's biggest mistake was going back to the Republican Party in 1916 and campaigning for Hughes! (My sincerest apologies to my Republican friends) By going back to the Republican party, TR destroyed the Progressive Party, a.k.a. the Bull Moose Party. Wilson simply countered TR's actions by passing through a number of progressive reforms to win over the progressives who were disheartened by TR's bolt back to the Republicans. That, in addition to the "He Kept Us Out of the War" slogan, paved the way for a second Wilson term. What if TR stayed with the Progressive Party? Would we continue to have this vibrant political party with us today? Imagine having a significant third choice in our American political arena. This would have been a tremendous political legacy left to the American public by TR.

                                   

                                  Jeremy Johnston

                                   

                                  Assistant Professor of History

                                   

                                  Northwest College

                                   

                                  231 West 6th Street

                                   

                                  Powell, WY 82435

                                   

                                  (307)754-6008

                                   

                                  jeremy.johnston@northwestcollege.edu <mailto:jeremy.johnston%40northwestcollege.edu>

                                   

                                  Northwest College Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu

                                   

                                  History Homepage: www.northwestcollege.edu/area/history

                                   

                                  ________________________________

                                   

                                  From: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Harry Lembeck

                                   

                                  Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 11:41 AM

                                   

                                  To: tr-m@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tr-m%40yahoogroups.com>

                                   

                                  Subject: Re: [tr-m] Discussion Topic - What Were TR's Greatest Mistakes - Personal & Political?

                                   

                                  Funny, yesterday I was talking to Greg Wynn, and he says TR's worst mistake was Taft, which is another way of saying what John just said about the 1912 split, which led to Wlison.

                                   

                                  On Feb 15, 2007, at 12:50 PM, John Willson wrote:

                                   

                                  I believe TR's greatest personal mistake was his almost pathological avoidance of the subject of his first wife, Alice Lee, following her tragic death in 1884, and the lasting psychological effects this may have had on their daughter, Alice.

                                   

                                  I believe his greatest political mistake was his descent into a kind of Croly-type radical (for the times), regulationist, federalism leading to his split with the Republican Party, his nomination by the Progressive Party for President in 1912, and the eventual election of the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.




                                  simonatl <simonatl@yahoo.com <mailto:simonatl%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                                   

                                  No one's perfect as they say. On that CSPAN 4 hour show on TR in 1999,

                                   

                                  Dr. Gable was asked the same question. Ideas, anyone?




                                  Harry



                                  <winmail.dat>

                                   

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