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Re: [toyota-prius] 2001 Classic

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  • pmb
    Larry is quite right - and actually REPEAT-starting is the worst thing to do since that s what further pulls down the HV battery. Do as he says - let it run!
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 2, 2007
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      Larry is quite right - and actually REPEAT-starting is the worst thing to do since that's what further pulls down the HV battery. Do as he says - let it run!

      Pete


      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Larry Finch <finches@...>
      >Sent: Feb 2, 2007 9:54 AM
      >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] 2001 Classic "Turtle" light at -6 F
      >
      >On 2/2/07, joljol56 <jol@...> wrote:
      >> On start-up this morning at -6 degrees F. my 2001 Classic showed the
      >> turtle light. Let it run 15 minutes and re-started after a couple of
      >> minutes. Repeated several times. Turtle light still on.
      >>
      >> More than 3/4 tank of gas. 76,000 miles. All warranty service and upgrades
      >> done.
      >>
      >> Leaving it in the driveway for now.
      >
      >The Turtle light simply means that the traction battery state of
      >charge is too low to use for a power boost. The best fix is to let it
      >run long enough to bring the battery state of charge within its normal
      >parameters; the turtle light should go out when this state is reached.
      >Leaving it off will not solve the problem. If there are no other
      >warnings this is the only problem, and is probably due to the low
      >temperature coupled with the fact that the battery state of charge was
      >probably low when you shut it off. The battery capacity does vary some
      >with temperature.
      >
      >best,
      >
      >Larry
      >
      >
      >--
      >Larry Finch
      >
      >N 40° 53' 47"
      >W 74° 03' 56"
      >
      >
      >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
      >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
      >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
      >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Chris
      By let it run I assume you are saying, just drive it. Wouldn t it be better to just drive the car to charge the HV battery than idling it out in the cold
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 2, 2007
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        By "let it run" I assume you are saying, "just drive it." Wouldn't it
        be better to just drive the car to charge the HV battery than idling
        it out in the cold on the driveway? I have a 2002 Classic, 60 k
        miles, and I've never seen the turtle light. I live in Minnesota
        where it was that -6 F this morning. Is the 2001 more prone to this?

        I recently had the Classic cold start stall. Figuring that I knew
        what the issue was, I took a copy of the TSB into the dealer when I
        brought the car in, and they replaced the ECU while I waited (took
        about an hour and a half) under the standard warranty. (I also have
        the extended warranty.) I was pleasantly shocked that they didn't
        fight me on it and actually had an ECU in stock. The Service
        scheduler on the phone had sounded very skeptical when I set up the
        appointment, so I was mentally prepared for the worst.

        --Chris Z.

        --- pmb <PriusPete@...> wrote:
        >
        > Larry is quite right - and actually REPEAT-starting is the worst
        thing to do since that's what further pulls down the HV battery. Do
        as he says - let it run!
        >
        > Pete
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > >From: Larry Finch <finches@...>
        > >Sent: Feb 2, 2007 9:54 AM
        > >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] 2001 Classic "Turtle" light at -6 F
        > >
        > >On 2/2/07, joljol56 <jol@...> wrote:
        > >> On start-up this morning at -6 degrees F. my 2001 Classic showed
        the turtle light. Let it run 15 minutes and re-started after a couple
        of minutes. Repeated several times. Turtle light still on.
        > >>
        > >> More than 3/4 tank of gas. 76,000 miles. All warranty service and
        upgrades done.
        > >>
        > >> Leaving it in the driveway for now.
        > >
        > >The Turtle light simply means that the traction battery state of
        charge is too low to use for a power boost. The best fix is to let it
        run long enough to bring the battery state of charge within its normal
        parameters; the turtle light should go out when this state is reached.
        Leaving it off will not solve the problem. If there are no other
        warnings this is the only problem, and is probably due to the low
        temperature coupled with the fact that the battery state of charge was
        probably low when you shut it off. The battery capacity does vary some
        with temperature.
        > >
        > >best,
        > >
        > >Larry
      • Florian Steiper
        ... As much as I understand batteries there is a problem when it gets too cold. When the car is out during the night and the battery gets pretty cold it can t
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 2, 2007
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          Chris wrote:
          > By "let it run" I assume you are saying, "just drive it." Wouldn't it
          > be better to just drive the car to charge the HV battery than idling
          > it out in the cold on the driveway? I have a 2002 Classic, 60 k
          >

          As much as I understand batteries there is a problem when it gets too
          cold. When the car is out during the night and the battery gets pretty
          cold it can't deliver much power, nor can it accept much power from the
          generator/regenerative breaking.

          The way to get out of this is to heat it up... I am sure now how it is
          done, but I know that there is a sensor for "battery cooling air" which
          is actually taken from the passenger compartment. So if you drive a
          while and make it nice and cozy inside the battery ECU should decide to
          get some warm cabin air to heat up the battery.

          The other way would be via the internal resistance of the battery...
          this is approx 1/2 Ohm for the Prius 1 battery, so theoretically
          speaking the car could try to charge and discharge in short intervals to
          heat up the battery via this resistance. I don't know if it is good
          though for a frozen battery to have load... the toyota guys probably
          know better ;)

          Anyways... for most driving situations you do not need the battery, you
          still have an conbustion engine that delivers power to the wheels, just
          be prepared that the car isn't as fast as it used to be.

          I myself one had a loss of propulsion with the prius, (also classis) but
          for different reasons... the ICE would still run, but I wouldn't get any
          power to the wheels... that wasn't a good feeling :)

          ciao

          Florian
          > miles, and I've never seen the turtle light. I live in Minnesota
          > where it was that -6 F this morning. Is the 2001 more prone to this?
          >
          > I recently had the Classic cold start stall. Figuring that I knew
          > what the issue was, I took a copy of the TSB into the dealer when I
          > brought the car in, and they replaced the ECU while I waited (took
          > about an hour and a half) under the standard warranty. (I also have
          > the extended warranty.) I was pleasantly shocked that they didn't
          > fight me on it and actually had an ECU in stock. The Service
          > scheduler on the phone had sounded very skeptical when I set up the
          > appointment, so I was mentally prepared for the worst.
          >
          > --Chris Z.
          >
          > --- pmb <PriusPete@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Larry is quite right - and actually REPEAT-starting is the worst
          >>
          > thing to do since that's what further pulls down the HV battery. Do
          > as he says - let it run!
          >
          >> Pete
          >>
          >>
          >> -----Original Message-----
          >>
          >>> From: Larry Finch <finches@...>
          >>> Sent: Feb 2, 2007 9:54 AM
          >>> To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
          >>> Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] 2001 Classic "Turtle" light at -6 F
          >>>
          >>> On 2/2/07, joljol56 <jol@...> wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> On start-up this morning at -6 degrees F. my 2001 Classic showed
          >>>>
          > the turtle light. Let it run 15 minutes and re-started after a couple
          > of minutes. Repeated several times. Turtle light still on.
          >
          >>>> More than 3/4 tank of gas. 76,000 miles. All warranty service and
          >>>>
          > upgrades done.
          >
          >>>> Leaving it in the driveway for now.
          >>>>
          >>> The Turtle light simply means that the traction battery state of
          >>>
          > charge is too low to use for a power boost. The best fix is to let it
          > run long enough to bring the battery state of charge within its normal
          > parameters; the turtle light should go out when this state is reached.
          > Leaving it off will not solve the problem. If there are no other
          > warnings this is the only problem, and is probably due to the low
          > temperature coupled with the fact that the battery state of charge was
          > probably low when you shut it off. The battery capacity does vary some
          > with temperature.
          >
          >>> best,
          >>>
          >>> Larry
          >>>
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • pmb
          If the turtle is showing, I d vote for idling at home. Two reasons: performance will be sluggish (unless you have a mostly-downhill initial route); and
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 2, 2007
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            If the turtle is showing, I'd vote for idling at home. Two reasons: performance will be sluggish (unless you have a mostly-downhill initial route); and driving (except downhill) will not charge the HV as quickly since it will also be trying to USE that for power at times.

            -----Original Message-----
            >From: Chris <chriszerby1@...>
            >Sent: Feb 2, 2007 10:29 AM
            >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: 2001 Classic
            >
            >By "let it run" I assume you are saying, "just drive it." Wouldn't it
            >be better to just drive the car to charge the HV battery than idling
            >it out in the cold on the driveway? I have a 2002 Classic, 60 k
            >miles, and I've never seen the turtle light. I live in Minnesota
            >where it was that -6 F this morning. Is the 2001 more prone to this?
            >
            >I recently had the Classic cold start stall. Figuring that I knew
            >what the issue was, I took a copy of the TSB into the dealer when I
            >brought the car in, and they replaced the ECU while I waited (took
            >about an hour and a half) under the standard warranty. (I also have
            >the extended warranty.) I was pleasantly shocked that they didn't
            >fight me on it and actually had an ECU in stock. The Service
            >scheduler on the phone had sounded very skeptical when I set up the
            >appointment, so I was mentally prepared for the worst.
            >
            >--Chris Z.
            >
            >--- pmb <PriusPete@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Larry is quite right - and actually REPEAT-starting is the worst
            >thing to do since that's what further pulls down the HV battery. Do
            >as he says - let it run!
            >>
            >> Pete
            >>
            >>
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> >From: Larry Finch <finches@...>
            >> >Sent: Feb 2, 2007 9:54 AM
            >> >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
            >> >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] 2001 Classic "Turtle" light at -6 F
            >> >
            >> >On 2/2/07, joljol56 <jol@...> wrote:
            >> >> On start-up this morning at -6 degrees F. my 2001 Classic showed
            >the turtle light. Let it run 15 minutes and re-started after a couple
            >of minutes. Repeated several times. Turtle light still on.
            >> >>
            >> >> More than 3/4 tank of gas. 76,000 miles. All warranty service and
            >upgrades done.
            >> >>
            >> >> Leaving it in the driveway for now.
            >> >
            >> >The Turtle light simply means that the traction battery state of
            >charge is too low to use for a power boost. The best fix is to let it
            >run long enough to bring the battery state of charge within its normal
            >parameters; the turtle light should go out when this state is reached.
            > Leaving it off will not solve the problem. If there are no other
            >warnings this is the only problem, and is probably due to the low
            >temperature coupled with the fact that the battery state of charge was
            >probably low when you shut it off. The battery capacity does vary some
            >with temperature.
            >> >
            >> >best,
            >> >
            >> >Larry
            >
            >
            >
            >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
            >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
            >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
            >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • pmb
            these comments on batteries apply more to lead-acid than to NiMH - which are much less temperature sensitive (except at the high end).
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 2, 2007
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              these comments on batteries apply more to lead-acid than to NiMH - which are much less temperature sensitive (except at the high end).

              -----Original Message-----
              >From: Florian Steiper <florian.steiper@...>
              >Sent: Feb 2, 2007 10:45 AM
              >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Re: 2001 Classic
              >
              >Chris wrote:
              >> By "let it run" I assume you are saying, "just drive it." Wouldn't it
              >> be better to just drive the car to charge the HV battery than idling
              >> it out in the cold on the driveway? I have a 2002 Classic, 60 k
              >>
              >
              >As much as I understand batteries there is a problem when it gets too
              >cold. ...
            • JerryW
              ... Hi Pete. Sure, NiMH batteries are less sensitive to temperature than some, but they are still noticeably affected by it. For example, my NHW20 will pop out
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 2, 2007
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                On 02/02/07, pmb <PriusPete@...> wrote:
                >
                > these comments on batteries apply more to lead-acid than to NiMH - which
                > are much less temperature sensitive (except at the high end).


                Hi Pete. Sure, NiMH batteries are less sensitive to temperature than some,
                but they are still noticeably affected by it. For example, my NHW20 will pop
                out of EV mode much easier in winter than in summer, either because the HV
                battery can't supply so many amps, or because the HV ECU is protecting it
                more.

                FWIW I would never idle a Prius for more than a minute or two, not that mine
                will so that anyway :-). Just go for a 20m drive and she'll be fine. If in
                doubt, just drive it.

                Regards

                Jerry

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