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Re: [toyota-prius] understanding oil vescosity

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  • Stan Sexton
    Bill C. has nailed it on the head. Tighter tolerances in today s engines dictate thinner oil. Dino oil always has a problem with viscosity. Dino oil wants to
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 5, 2007
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      Bill C. has nailed it on the head. Tighter tolerances in today's engines dictate thinner oil. Dino oil always has a problem with viscosity. Dino oil wants to be thinner with higher temperatures and thicker with cold. We need opposite of this, so Dino oil has VI or Viscosity Index Improvers. Like many Dino Oil additives, they wear out in as little as 3000 miles. So much of a quart of Dino Oil is additives that the % left for lubrication is compromised.
      Syn oil is designed molecue by molecule to lubricate, and there is hardly any change in viscosity with temperature. And with no affinity for water, Syn Oil will pour close to 40 degrees below zero. Try that with Dino Oil. And Syn Oil doesn't thin and burn at the most critical spot -at the top piston ring. Coking there with Dino Oil is usually what dictates the life of your engine. Once the top piston ring is cooked into the land or groove, it's all downhill fast. Blowby gets horrendous, the piston starts vibrating in the bore, and you can kiss the whole engine goodbye.
      Amsoil makes a ZERO viscosity syn oil that you can use year round. STP was great for coating engine parts in a rebuild, but the thick oil that resulted was hard on low temp lubrication. With Dino oil, film strength was better with higher viscosity. Not so with Syn Oil. It's film strength is not compromised with temperature. Dino oil is a creation with critical balance. It's a huge compromise in a bottle, especially in today's engines which run hot and lean. Stan in San Diego - Syn oil exclusively since 1974.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Bill C.
      To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 4:23 PM
      Subject: [toyota-prius] understanding oil vescosity










      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Kelly
      ... I thought he missed it pretty badly but I am tired. ... Golly, I just got thru saying how nice it was no one had repeated THAT erroneous position. We need
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 5, 2007
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        On Jan 5, 2007, at 7:22 PM, Stan Sexton wrote:

        > Bill C. has nailed it on the head.

        I thought he missed it pretty badly but I am tired.

        > Tighter tolerances in today's engines dictate thinner oil. Dino oil
        > always has a problem with viscosity. Dino oil wants to be thinner
        > with higher temperatures and thicker with cold. We need opposite of
        > this, so Dino oil has VI or Viscosity Index Improvers.

        Golly, I just got thru saying how nice it was no one had repeated
        THAT erroneous position. "We need opposite of this, ..." gee.

        5W is thicker than 30, at their respective test temperatures. All
        motor oils get thinner with rise in temperature. 5W30 doesn't mean
        what Bill C. said. 5W30 means the oil can be pumped at temperature as
        cold as a 5 weight oil can be pumped, while it has the same viscosity
        as a straight 30 weight oil at operating temperature.

        5W30 does not get thicker at higher temperatures, it just does not
        thin as fast as a 5 weight oil. Or another way to look at it, it
        doesn't thicken as fast as a 30 weight oil when it cools.

        > Syn oil is designed molecue by molecule to lubricate, and there is
        > hardly any change in viscosity with temperature.

        Wrong. The *slope* of the change in viscosity vs. temperature can be
        less for oils manufactured with synthetic processes. It still
        changes, a lot. But the manufacturer has to design this property into
        the product, it doesn't just happen "because synthetic."

        Many advances have occurred in recent years due to the amount of work
        researching "synthetic" motor oil. We have a better idea of what
        constitutes a superior motor oil. This isn't lost on refiners, who
        thanks to synthetic motor oil know what to keep and what to throw out.

        Early synthetic motor oils had problems because not all of the
        properties expected of a motor oil were widely known. There were a
        lot of problems with oil seals. But not just with synthetic motor
        oils but when changing from one oil to another. This is now much
        better known, and rarely a problem.

        > And with no affinity for water,

        How can you get this so wrong?

        > Syn Oil will pour close to 40 degrees below zero.

        How does cold pouring temperature relate to mixing with water?

        The oil is manufactured with synthetic processes. Manufacturing with
        synthetic processes only results in a superior product when the
        manufacturer cares enough to design the product for superior
        characteristics.

        --
        David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
        ========================================================================
        Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
      • Stirrat
        ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 5, 2007
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          On 1/5/07, David Kelly <dkelly@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > On Jan 5, 2007, at 7:22 PM, Stan Sexton wrote:
          >
          > > Bill C. has nailed it on the head.
          >
          > I thought he missed it pretty badly but I am tired.
          >
          > > Tighter tolerances in today's engines dictate thinner oil. Dino oil
          > > always has a problem with viscosity. Dino oil wants to be thinner
          > > with higher temperatures and thicker with cold. We need opposite of
          > > this, so Dino oil has VI or Viscosity Index Improvers.
          >
          > Golly, I just got thru saying how nice it was no one had repeated
          > THAT erroneous position. "We need opposite of this, ..." gee.
          >
          > 5W is thicker than 30, at their respective test temperatures. All
          > motor oils get thinner with rise in temperature. 5W30 doesn't mean
          > what Bill C. said. 5W30 means the oil can be pumped at temperature as
          > cold as a 5 weight oil can be pumped, while it has the same viscosity
          > as a straight 30 weight oil at operating temperature.
          >
          > 5W30 does not get thicker at higher temperatures, it just does not
          > thin as fast as a 5 weight oil. Or another way to look at it, it
          > doesn't thicken as fast as a 30 weight oil when it cools.
          >
          > > Syn oil is designed molecue by molecule to lubricate, and there is
          > > hardly any change in viscosity with temperature.
          >
          > Wrong. The *slope* of the change in viscosity vs. temperature can be
          > less for oils manufactured with synthetic processes. It still
          > changes, a lot. But the manufacturer has to design this property into
          > the product, it doesn't just happen "because synthetic."
          >
          > Many advances have occurred in recent years due to the amount of work
          > researching "synthetic" motor oil. We have a better idea of what
          > constitutes a superior motor oil. This isn't lost on refiners, who
          > thanks to synthetic motor oil know what to keep and what to throw out.
          >
          > Early synthetic motor oils had problems because not all of the
          > properties expected of a motor oil were widely known. There were a
          > lot of problems with oil seals. But not just with synthetic motor
          > oils but when changing from one oil to another. This is now much
          > better known, and rarely a problem.
          >
          > > And with no affinity for water,
          >
          > How can you get this so wrong?
          >
          > > Syn Oil will pour close to 40 degrees below zero.
          >
          > How does cold pouring temperature relate to mixing with water?
          >
          > The oil is manufactured with synthetic processes. Manufacturing with
          > synthetic processes only results in a superior product when the
          > manufacturer cares enough to design the product for superior
          > characteristics.
          >
          > --
          > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@... <dkelly%40HiWAAY.net>
          > ========================================================================
          > Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
          >
          >
          >


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