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My reply to NBC Nightly News

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  • damonnoisette
    This is the response I sent to NBC Nightly News regarding the swiss cheese story entitled Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings? ...
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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      This is the response I sent to NBC Nightly News regarding the swiss
      cheese story entitled "Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings?"

      ----
      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8975473/
      --

      I am writing this in response to NBC News Correspondent Anne
      Thompson's report, "Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings?"

      As a hybrid owner I have to disagree with the majority of her report,
      particularly the statements of her source, Mr. David Champion of
      Consumer Reports, about sub-40 miles per gallon numbers in city
      driving.

      As a writer with a little newspaper experience, I have to question her
      methods in compiling her story. She gives no mention to the process
      she used to compare a "conventional Camry," whether that Camry was a
      four or six-cylinder model, or the variables included in the
      Edmunds.com tool. A similar comparison run against the U.S. Department
      of Energy's HEV Cost Calculator Tool
      (http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/calculator/single.php),
      using a $20,000 Pontiac G6 and a $25,000 Prius saves at least $774.75*
      over a 5-year period -- with purposely diminished MPG numbers for the
      Prius. In a live setting, the savings would likely be much more --
      especially if the hybrid owner drives more than 15,000 miles a year.

      When Ms. Thompson reports that "Automotive analysts say these green
      vehicles depreciate faster and, because they are more expensive, cost
      more to insure" I have to wonder, first, who these "automotive
      analysts" are, and whether these analysts are truly discussing the
      rate at which a car depreciates. Your local affiliates have in fact
      reported the exact opposite trend when they ran stories about slightly
      used Toyota Priuses selling for more than MSRP in some markets,
      begging the question: Which is it?

      I would hope in the future that Ms. Thompson's editors ask tougher
      questions when reviewing her stories, particularly those with limited
      sources who very obviously contradict empirical evidence.

      * The variables I used at
      http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/calculator/single.php are
      as follows:

      $25000 Prius
      Tax Incentive: $0
      City MPG: 50 -- Notice the 50 instead of 60
      Highway: 50

      $20000 Pontiac G6
      City Fuel: 22
      Highway: 32

      Annual Mileage: 15000
      Years of Use: 5
      Gas Cost: $2.50
      Discount %: 4
      Percentage of City Driving: 55%

      Default values.

      I invite you -- and especially Ms. Thompson -- to take a look at the
      DOE site as well as the many Prius user groups found on the Internet,
      e.g. Yahoo!, www.priuschat.com, www.priusownersgroup.com,
      http://john1701a.com, etc.

      Damon Noisette
      damonnoisette@...
    • David
      Beautiful! Well done! CNN did a very similar hack-story on hybrids this morning. I was very displeased at the job they did...in conjunction with Consumer
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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        Beautiful! Well done!

        CNN did a very similar hack-story on hybrids this morning. I was very
        displeased at the job they did...in conjunction with Consumer Reports
        I might add.

        I truely believe that there is an organized and concerted effort
        within the US to discredit hybrids as a "fad" and as "hyped". I was
        called a "fruitcake" on another site when I claimed that my 01 Prius
        gets 56 MPG.

        For those who monitor this site and have yet to purchase...listen to
        what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN, NBC, FOX,
        CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
        interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome cars.

        I guess if we all drove hybrids, there would be not reason to start
        new drilling in Alaska. The oil companies might not get to sit on
        billions of dollars worth of profits every year...etc.

        Dave
        Silver 01

        --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "damonnoisette"
        <damonnoisette@y...> wrote:
        > This is the response I sent to NBC Nightly News regarding the swiss
        > cheese story entitled "Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings?"
        >
        > ----
        > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8975473/
        > --
        >
        > I am writing this in response to NBC News Correspondent Anne
        > Thompson's report, "Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings?"
        >
        > As a hybrid owner I have to disagree with the majority of her report,
        > particularly the statements of her source, Mr. David Champion of
        > Consumer Reports, about sub-40 miles per gallon numbers in city
        > driving.
        >
        > As a writer with a little newspaper experience, I have to question her
        > methods in compiling her story. She gives no mention to the process
        > she used to compare a "conventional Camry," whether that Camry was a
        > four or six-cylinder model, or the variables included in the
        > Edmunds.com tool. A similar comparison run against the U.S. Department
        > of Energy's HEV Cost Calculator Tool
        > (http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/calculator/single.php),
        > using a $20,000 Pontiac G6 and a $25,000 Prius saves at least $774.75*
        > over a 5-year period -- with purposely diminished MPG numbers for the
        > Prius. In a live setting, the savings would likely be much more --
        > especially if the hybrid owner drives more than 15,000 miles a year.
        >
        > When Ms. Thompson reports that "Automotive analysts say these green
        > vehicles depreciate faster and, because they are more expensive, cost
        > more to insure" I have to wonder, first, who these "automotive
        > analysts" are, and whether these analysts are truly discussing the
        > rate at which a car depreciates. Your local affiliates have in fact
        > reported the exact opposite trend when they ran stories about slightly
        > used Toyota Priuses selling for more than MSRP in some markets,
        > begging the question: Which is it?
        >
        > I would hope in the future that Ms. Thompson's editors ask tougher
        > questions when reviewing her stories, particularly those with limited
        > sources who very obviously contradict empirical evidence.
        >
        > * The variables I used at
        > http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/calculator/single.php are
        > as follows:
        >
        > $25000 Prius
        > Tax Incentive: $0
        > City MPG: 50 -- Notice the 50 instead of 60
        > Highway: 50
        >
        > $20000 Pontiac G6
        > City Fuel: 22
        > Highway: 32
        >
        > Annual Mileage: 15000
        > Years of Use: 5
        > Gas Cost: $2.50
        > Discount %: 4
        > Percentage of City Driving: 55%
        >
        > Default values.
        >
        > I invite you -- and especially Ms. Thompson -- to take a look at the
        > DOE site as well as the many Prius user groups found on the Internet,
        > e.g. Yahoo!, www.priuschat.com, www.priusownersgroup.com,
        > http://john1701a.com, etc.
        >
        > Damon Noisette
        > damonnoisette@y...
      • Tarik and Rui
        There indeed does seem to be a movement to discredit hybrids and poke fun at the geeky hybrid drivers. I think it is not going to catch on as much as they
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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          There indeed does seem to be a movement to discredit hybrids and
          poke fun at the "geeky hybrid drivers." I think it is not going to
          catch on as much as they think it will though. After showing up on
          Monday morning in a brand new Prius, my husband's co-workers' jaws
          dropped and begged to see the interior. One individual said we'd get
          stuck in the snow but the day after, he took it back and said it
          was "pretty cool." Now the whole workplace is chatting up a storm
          and many are leaning toward getting one for themselves. Take that
          oil industry!


          --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dringgoldl@y...> wrote:
          > Beautiful! Well done!
          >
          > CNN did a very similar hack-story on hybrids this morning. I was
          very
          > displeased at the job they did...in conjunction with Consumer
          Reports
          > I might add.
          >
          > I truely believe that there is an organized and concerted effort
          > within the US to discredit hybrids as a "fad" and as "hyped". I
          was
          > called a "fruitcake" on another site when I claimed that my 01
          Prius
          > gets 56 MPG.
          >
          > For those who monitor this site and have yet to purchase...listen
          to
          > what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN, NBC,
          FOX,
          > CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
          > interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome cars.
          >
          > I guess if we all drove hybrids, there would be not reason to start
          > new drilling in Alaska. The oil companies might not get to sit on
          > billions of dollars worth of profits every year...etc.
          >
          > Dave
          > Silver 01
          >
          > --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "damonnoisette"
          > <damonnoisette@y...> wrote:
          > > This is the response I sent to NBC Nightly News regarding the
          swiss
          > > cheese story entitled "Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings?"
          > >
          > > ----
          > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8975473/
          > > --
          > >
          > > I am writing this in response to NBC News Correspondent Anne
          > > Thompson's report, "Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings?"
          > >
          > > As a hybrid owner I have to disagree with the majority of her
          report,
          > > particularly the statements of her source, Mr. David Champion of
          > > Consumer Reports, about sub-40 miles per gallon numbers in city
          > > driving.
          > >
          > > As a writer with a little newspaper experience, I have to
          question her
          > > methods in compiling her story. She gives no mention to the
          process
          > > she used to compare a "conventional Camry," whether that Camry
          was a
          > > four or six-cylinder model, or the variables included in the
          > > Edmunds.com tool. A similar comparison run against the U.S.
          Department
          > > of Energy's HEV Cost Calculator Tool
          > >
          (http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/calculator/single.php),
          > > using a $20,000 Pontiac G6 and a $25,000 Prius saves at least
          $774.75*
          > > over a 5-year period -- with purposely diminished MPG numbers
          for the
          > > Prius. In a live setting, the savings would likely be much more -
          -
          > > especially if the hybrid owner drives more than 15,000 miles a
          year.
          > >
          > > When Ms. Thompson reports that "Automotive analysts say these
          green
          > > vehicles depreciate faster and, because they are more expensive,
          cost
          > > more to insure" I have to wonder, first, who these "automotive
          > > analysts" are, and whether these analysts are truly discussing
          the
          > > rate at which a car depreciates. Your local affiliates have in
          fact
          > > reported the exact opposite trend when they ran stories about
          slightly
          > > used Toyota Priuses selling for more than MSRP in some markets,
          > > begging the question: Which is it?
          > >
          > > I would hope in the future that Ms. Thompson's editors ask
          tougher
          > > questions when reviewing her stories, particularly those with
          limited
          > > sources who very obviously contradict empirical evidence.
          > >
          > > * The variables I used at
          > > http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/calculator/single.php
          are
          > > as follows:
          > >
          > > $25000 Prius
          > > Tax Incentive: $0
          > > City MPG: 50 -- Notice the 50 instead of 60
          > > Highway: 50
          > >
          > > $20000 Pontiac G6
          > > City Fuel: 22
          > > Highway: 32
          > >
          > > Annual Mileage: 15000
          > > Years of Use: 5
          > > Gas Cost: $2.50
          > > Discount %: 4
          > > Percentage of City Driving: 55%
          > >
          > > Default values.
          > >
          > > I invite you -- and especially Ms. Thompson -- to take a look at
          the
          > > DOE site as well as the many Prius user groups found on the
          Internet,
          > > e.g. Yahoo!, www.priuschat.com, www.priusownersgroup.com,
          > > http://john1701a.com, etc.
          > >
          > > Damon Noisette
          > > damonnoisette@y...
        • john1701a
          ... Thankfully, lots of people are seeking out information on their own, rather than relying on the garbage some of the popular press has been spitting out.
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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            > take a look at the DOE site as well as the many Prius user groups
            > found on the Internet, e.g. Yahoo!, www.priuschat.com,
            > www.priusownersgroup.com, http://john1701a.com, etc.

            Thankfully, lots of people are seeking out information on their own,
            rather than relying on the garbage some of the popular press has been
            spitting out. The usage logs for my website show a very pleasing
            significant increase recently. Knowing that makes me feel good that
            people aren't just accepting what they hear.

            JOHN
            http://john1701a.com
          • kmbaileyus
            That s interesting. I went to their website to see if it s also posted there, and instead prominently positioned under MORE NEWS , is: Review: H3 is best
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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              That's interesting. I went to their website to see if it's also posted
              there, and instead prominently positioned under "MORE NEWS", is:

              Review: H3 is best looking Hummer yet


              Just a coincidence, I'm sure.


              --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dringgoldl@y...> wrote:
              > Beautiful! Well done!
              >
              > CNN did a very similar hack-story on hybrids this morning. I was very
              > displeased at the job they did...in conjunction with Consumer Reports
              > I might add.
              >
            • Gary Novosielski
              ... While I understand how CNN, NBC, CBS, and especially FAUX News can be bought, since they either come to the table with a right-wing ideology (in the case
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                On 8/18/05, David <dringgoldl@...> wrote:

                > For those who monitor this site and have yet to purchase...listen to
                > what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN, NBC, FOX,
                > CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
                > interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome cars.

                While I understand how CNN, NBC, CBS, and especially FAUX News can be
                bought, since they either come to the table with a right-wing ideology
                (in the case of the latter), or earn their income from large corporate
                advertisers, the same is not true of Consumers Union (CU), publisher
                of Consumer Reports. They take no advertising at all. By what
                mechanism can they be "bought", do you think?

                Consumer Reports actually did report what the owners say, and you're
                correct--a record percentage of them say they were satisfied with
                their Prius and would gladly buy another one--more than any car in
                history. That report was also picked up by the national news outlets
                when it occurred earlier this year. Before blaming CU for the tone of
                recent stories, it is wise to note that the network gets the final
                edit.

                I have often said things to reporters and been unable to recognize my
                own words in print later on.

                --
                =Gary
                '05 Millennium Silver; BI + Wheel Locks, Fog lights, Auto-dimming
                mirror, CoastalEtech EV switch; Garmin StreetPilot 2610 GPS
              • Michael Pardee
                ... My wife s late mother was typically disdainful when we bought the Prius. She stayed that way until she rode in it the first time. Then she loved the ease
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                  --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "Tarik and Rui"
                  <intuitivelyblue@y...> wrote:
                  > There indeed does seem to be a movement to discredit hybrids and
                  > poke fun at the "geeky hybrid drivers." I think it is not going to
                  > catch on as much as they think it will though. After showing up on
                  > Monday morning in a brand new Prius, my husband's co-workers' jaws
                  > dropped and begged to see the interior. One individual said we'd get
                  > stuck in the snow but the day after, he took it back and said it
                  > was "pretty cool." Now the whole workplace is chatting up a storm
                  > and many are leaning toward getting one for themselves. Take that
                  > oil industry!
                  >
                  >

                  My wife's late mother was typically disdainful when we bought the
                  Prius. She stayed that way until she rode in it the first time. Then
                  she loved the ease of entry/exit (she was on portable oxygen), the
                  comfort and the perfectly smooth power. The silence while waiting at
                  stops - at least until the engine kicked on to pump the A/C - was a
                  real revelation to her.

                  Mike (an admittedly geeky hybrid driver)
                • Michael Pardee
                  ... purchase...listen to ... NBC, FOX, ... cars. ... be ... ideology ... corporate ... publisher ... My own take is that sensation sells, and being able to
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                    --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Gary Novosielski
                    <gary.novosielski@g...> wrote:
                    > On 8/18/05, David <dringgoldl@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > For those who monitor this site and have yet to
                    purchase...listen to
                    > > what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN,
                    NBC, FOX,
                    > > CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
                    > > interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome
                    cars.
                    >
                    > While I understand how CNN, NBC, CBS, and especially FAUX News can
                    be
                    > bought, since they either come to the table with a right-wing
                    ideology
                    > (in the case of the latter), or earn their income from large
                    corporate
                    > advertisers, the same is not true of Consumers Union (CU),
                    publisher
                    > of Consumer Reports. They take no advertising at all. By what
                    > mechanism can they be "bought", do you think?

                    My own take is that sensation sells, and being able to take pot
                    shots at the latest hero is a favorite pastime of news
                    organizations. I would claim it is new, but I know better. The first
                    amendment to the US constitution, wherein freedom of the press is
                    granted, was hotly opposed by those who knew how scandalous the
                    press was. And who today compares to William Randolph Hearst?

                    >
                    > Consumer Reports actually did report what the owners say, and
                    you're
                    > correct--a record percentage of them say they were satisfied with
                    > their Prius and would gladly buy another one--more than any car in
                    > history. That report was also picked up by the national news
                    outlets
                    > when it occurred earlier this year. Before blaming CU for the
                    tone of
                    > recent stories, it is wise to note that the network gets the final
                    > edit.
                    >
                    > I have often said things to reporters and been unable to recognize
                    my
                    > own words in print later on.
                    >
                    I haven't had the experience, but a situation I had first hand
                    knowledge of was reported and it was distorted beyond recognition.

                    Mike
                  • Jean Godwin
                    Thanks for the clarification, Gary. I was getting ready to cancel my online subscription to Consumer Reports (and yes, I was one of the respondents in their
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                      Thanks for the clarification, Gary. I was getting ready to cancel my online
                      subscription to Consumer Reports (and yes, I was one of the respondents in
                      their car-owner satisfaction survey; I gave my Prius glowing reviews).

                      Jean
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Gary Novosielski" <gary.novosielski@...>
                      To: "David" <dringgoldl@...>
                      Cc: <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 3:46 PM
                      Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Re: My reply to NBC Nightly News


                      > On 8/18/05, David <dringgoldl@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> For those who monitor this site and have yet to purchase...listen to
                      >> what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN, NBC, FOX,
                      >> CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
                      >> interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome cars.
                      >
                      > While I understand how CNN, NBC, CBS, and especially FAUX News can be
                      > bought, since they either come to the table with a right-wing ideology
                      > (in the case of the latter), or earn their income from large corporate
                      > advertisers, the same is not true of Consumers Union (CU), publisher
                      > of Consumer Reports. They take no advertising at all. By what
                      > mechanism can they be "bought", do you think?
                      >
                      > Consumer Reports actually did report what the owners say, and you're
                      > correct--a record percentage of them say they were satisfied with
                      > their Prius and would gladly buy another one--more than any car in
                      > history. That report was also picked up by the national news outlets
                      > when it occurred earlier this year. Before blaming CU for the tone of
                      > recent stories, it is wise to note that the network gets the final
                      > edit.
                      >
                      > I have often said things to reporters and been unable to recognize my
                      > own words in print later on.
                      >
                      > --
                      > =Gary
                      > '05 Millennium Silver; BI + Wheel Locks, Fog lights, Auto-dimming
                      > mirror, CoastalEtech EV switch; Garmin StreetPilot 2610 GPS
                      >
                      >
                      > To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
                      > and Polls, go to
                      > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                      > , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                      > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Kathleen Yonts
                      My Dad, who is 84, is very interested in my Prius and always wants me to show it off to his friends when I visit. His friends are very impressed with the car
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                        My Dad, who is 84, is very interested in my Prius and always wants me to
                        show it off to his friends when I visit. His friends are very impressed with
                        the car but say that they would never be able to figure it out or wouldn't
                        want to try. He sends me any article on the Prius. That said he still says
                        he prefers his Lincoln although he says the Prius is comfortable but not as
                        nice as his Lincoln.
                        Kathy in Severn, MD
                        '02 Silver, '04 Seaside BC9


                        > -----Original Message-----

                        > My wife's late mother was typically disdainful when we bought
                        > the Prius. She stayed that way until she rode in it the first
                        > time. Then she loved the ease of entry/exit (she was on
                        > portable oxygen), the comfort and the perfectly smooth power.
                        > The silence while waiting at stops - at least until the
                        > engine kicked on to pump the A/C - was a real revelation to her.
                      • Doug Schaefer
                        ... wrote: ... Hey Mike, my Mom who died last Aug was a much easier sell. I took her and two of her retirement home pals to lunch. One
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                          --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Pardee"
                          <flagmichael@y...> wrote:
                          ...
                          > My wife's late mother was typically disdainful when we bought the
                          > Prius. She stayed that way until she rode in it the first time...

                          Hey Mike, my Mom who died last Aug was a much easier sell. I took her
                          and two of her retirement home pals to lunch. One asked about
                          acceleration, so you can guess what I did. They agreed that I should
                          not do so again! When the favorable Reader's Digest article appeared
                          (whenever that was), there were no further questions. That mag has a
                          good grip on the seniors. Wish they'd publish something along the
                          lines of "no oil imports if the fleet hits 40 mpg". Maybe we'll have
                          to write it.

                          DAS

                          Slogan: "Freedom begins at 40"
                        • Wayne
                          I too think Consumer Reports was distorted in some way, or the person interviewed has a personal problem of some sort. As near as I can tell, the magazine
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                            I too think Consumer Reports was 'distorted' in some way, or the
                            person interviewed has a personal problem of some sort. As near as I
                            can tell, the magazine loves the car!

                            In the April '05 "Annual Auto Issue", the car is pictured and talked
                            about throughout the issue, and NOT in any negative way. It's in the
                            "Top 10 Picks" section, "Best Vehicles for $25,000 or Less" section,
                            "Which Cars Would People Get Again" and "Most Satisfying" sections
                            (it actually made "the one car that people most love to love"), it's
                            in the "Most Reliable" section, "Fuel Economy Quick Picks", and
                            "Owner Satisfaction Quick Picks".

                            This is what they wrote in it's vehicle profile:

                            "Toyota's second-generation Prius is unbeatable for its economy,
                            acceleration, and interior room. It couples a 1.5-liter gasoline
                            engine with an electric motor, and it automatically switches between
                            them or runs on both as needed. The car shuts the engine off at
                            idle. We got an excellent 44 MPG overall in our tests. Shifts are
                            automatic via a responsive continuously variable transmission (CVT).
                            Regenerative braking recharges the battery while coasting or braking.
                            Ride and handling are competent, though the steering feels vague.
                            Access is easy. Reliability has been outstanding."

                            Reading that issue, it sure doesn't look like they have much of a
                            problem with the car! The biggest thing was the electric-assisted
                            steering doesn't feel like hydraulic-assisted steering.

                            Wayne


                            >On 8/18/05, David <dringgoldl@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> For those who monitor this site and have yet to purchase...listen to
                            >> what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN, NBC, FOX,
                            >> CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
                            >> interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome cars.
                            >
                            >While I understand how CNN, NBC, CBS, and especially FAUX News can be
                            >bought, since they either come to the table with a right-wing ideology
                            >(in the case of the latter), or earn their income from large corporate
                            >advertisers, the same is not true of Consumers Union (CU), publisher
                            >of Consumer Reports. They take no advertising at all. By what
                            >mechanism can they be "bought", do you think?
                            >
                            >Consumer Reports actually did report what the owners say, and you're
                            >correct--a record percentage of them say they were satisfied with
                            >their Prius and would gladly buy another one--more than any car in
                            >history. That report was also picked up by the national news outlets
                            >when it occurred earlier this year. Before blaming CU for the tone of
                            >recent stories, it is wise to note that the network gets the final
                            >edit.
                            >
                            >I have often said things to reporters and been unable to recognize my
                            >own words in print later on.
                            >
                            >--
                            >=Gary
                            >'05 Millennium Silver; BI + Wheel Locks, Fog lights, Auto-dimming
                            >mirror, CoastalEtech EV switch; Garmin StreetPilot 2610 GPS
                            >
                            >
                            >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links,
                            >Database and Polls, go to
                            >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                            >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
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                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Tarik and Rui
                            Best looking?! Oh the monstrocity!
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 19, 2005
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                              Best looking?! Oh the monstrocity!


                              --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "kmbaileyus" <kbailey@f...> wrote:
                              > That's interesting. I went to their website to see if it's also posted
                              > there, and instead prominently positioned under "MORE NEWS", is:
                              >
                              > Review: H3 is best looking Hummer yet
                              >
                              >
                              > Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dringgoldl@y...> wrote:
                              > > Beautiful! Well done!
                              > >
                              > > CNN did a very similar hack-story on hybrids this morning. I was very
                              > > displeased at the job they did...in conjunction with Consumer Reports
                              > > I might add.
                              > >
                            • Tarik and Rui
                              I agree. I have been a long time subscriber of Consumer Reports and they have never expressed an ounce of negativity on Toyota vehicles let alone Prius models.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                I agree. I have been a long time subscriber of Consumer Reports and
                                they have never expressed an ounce of negativity on Toyota vehicles
                                let alone Prius models. I am not too keen on who owns what networks
                                and how sponsorship works but I would think that MSNBC would not want
                                to displease a company that offers it ample advertising money. How
                                free is the press when they are a business?

                                Rui
                                '05 Seaside Pearl Pkg 1
                                Brick, NJ


                                --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Wayne <computer251@c...> wrote:
                                > I too think Consumer Reports was 'distorted' in some way, or the
                                > person interviewed has a personal problem of some sort. As near as I
                                > can tell, the magazine loves the car!
                                >
                                > In the April '05 "Annual Auto Issue", the car is pictured and talked
                                > about throughout the issue, and NOT in any negative way. It's in the
                                > "Top 10 Picks" section, "Best Vehicles for $25,000 or Less" section,
                                > "Which Cars Would People Get Again" and "Most Satisfying" sections
                                > (it actually made "the one car that people most love to love"), it's
                                > in the "Most Reliable" section, "Fuel Economy Quick Picks", and
                                > "Owner Satisfaction Quick Picks".
                                >
                                > This is what they wrote in it's vehicle profile:
                                >
                                > "Toyota's second-generation Prius is unbeatable for its economy,
                                > acceleration, and interior room. It couples a 1.5-liter gasoline
                                > engine with an electric motor, and it automatically switches between
                                > them or runs on both as needed. The car shuts the engine off at
                                > idle. We got an excellent 44 MPG overall in our tests. Shifts are
                                > automatic via a responsive continuously variable transmission (CVT).
                                > Regenerative braking recharges the battery while coasting or braking.
                                > Ride and handling are competent, though the steering feels vague.
                                > Access is easy. Reliability has been outstanding."
                                >
                                > Reading that issue, it sure doesn't look like they have much of a
                                > problem with the car! The biggest thing was the electric-assisted
                                > steering doesn't feel like hydraulic-assisted steering.
                                >
                                > Wayne
                                >
                                >
                                > >On 8/18/05, David <dringgoldl@y...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >> For those who monitor this site and have yet to purchase...listen to
                                > >> what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN,
                                NBC, FOX,
                                > >> CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
                                > >> interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome cars.
                                > >
                                > >While I understand how CNN, NBC, CBS, and especially FAUX News can be
                                > >bought, since they either come to the table with a right-wing ideology
                                > >(in the case of the latter), or earn their income from large corporate
                                > >advertisers, the same is not true of Consumers Union (CU), publisher
                                > >of Consumer Reports. They take no advertising at all. By what
                                > >mechanism can they be "bought", do you think?
                                > >
                                > >Consumer Reports actually did report what the owners say, and you're
                                > >correct--a record percentage of them say they were satisfied with
                                > >their Prius and would gladly buy another one--more than any car in
                                > >history. That report was also picked up by the national news outlets
                                > >when it occurred earlier this year. Before blaming CU for the tone of
                                > >recent stories, it is wise to note that the network gets the final
                                > >edit.
                                > >
                                > >I have often said things to reporters and been unable to recognize my
                                > >own words in print later on.
                                > >
                                > >--
                                > >=Gary
                                > >'05 Millennium Silver; BI + Wheel Locks, Fog lights, Auto-dimming
                                > >mirror, CoastalEtech EV switch; Garmin StreetPilot 2610 GPS
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links,
                                > >Database and Polls, go to
                                > >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                > >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                > >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                > >
                                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                              • Chuck Phillips
                                Best looking only in comparison to other Hummers. The entire series is pretty stupid/fugly for civilians. Makes you wonder what they re compensating for when
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                  Best looking only in comparison to other Hummers. The entire series is
                                  pretty stupid/fugly for civilians. Makes you wonder what they're
                                  compensating for when they take what might be a pretty competent off-road
                                  vehicle (Okay, we'll exclude the H2 from that statment) and pimp it out with
                                  chrome, low profile wheels, and a sound system powerful enough to cause
                                  permanent hearing loss.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tarik and Rui
                                  Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 8:13 AM
                                  To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [toyota-prius] CNN - was Re: My reply to NBC Nightly News


                                  Best looking?! Oh the monstrocity!


                                  --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "kmbaileyus" <kbailey@f...> wrote:
                                  > That's interesting. I went to their website to see if it's also posted
                                  > there, and instead prominently positioned under "MORE NEWS", is:
                                  >
                                  > Review: H3 is best looking Hummer yet
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dringgoldl@y...> wrote:
                                  > > Beautiful! Well done!
                                  > >
                                  > > CNN did a very similar hack-story on hybrids this morning. I was very
                                  > > displeased at the job they did...in conjunction with Consumer Reports
                                  > > I might add.
                                  > >








                                  To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
                                  and Polls, go to
                                  http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                  , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                  http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius

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                                • Peter Blackford
                                  An historic observation regarding Consumer Reports is that they persist in confusing MALADJUSTMENT of a product with POOR/FAULTY DESIGN. Take any product type
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                    An historic observation regarding Consumer Reports is that they persist in confusing MALADJUSTMENT of a product with POOR/FAULTY DESIGN. Take any product type with which you are intimately familiar, review their "reports", and you'll see what I mean.

                                    It seems to be a genetic defect in the organization which goes back decades. I know of no cure, except to NOT subscribe.

                                    Pete

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Wayne <computer251@...>
                                    Sent: Aug 18, 2005 7:48 PM
                                    To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Re: My reply to NBC Nightly News

                                    I too think Consumer Reports was 'distorted' in some way, or the
                                    person interviewed has a personal problem of some sort. As near as I
                                    can tell, the magazine loves the car!

                                    In the April '05 "Annual Auto Issue", the car is pictured and talked
                                    about throughout the issue, and NOT in any negative way. It's in the
                                    "Top 10 Picks" section, "Best Vehicles for $25,000 or Less" section,
                                    "Which Cars Would People Get Again" and "Most Satisfying" sections
                                    (it actually made "the one car that people most love to love"), it's
                                    in the "Most Reliable" section, "Fuel Economy Quick Picks", and
                                    "Owner Satisfaction Quick Picks".

                                    This is what they wrote in it's vehicle profile:

                                    "Toyota's second-generation Prius is unbeatable for its economy,
                                    acceleration, and interior room. It couples a 1.5-liter gasoline
                                    engine with an electric motor, and it automatically switches between
                                    them or runs on both as needed. The car shuts the engine off at
                                    idle. We got an excellent 44 MPG overall in our tests. Shifts are
                                    automatic via a responsive continuously variable transmission (CVT).
                                    Regenerative braking recharges the battery while coasting or braking.
                                    Ride and handling are competent, though the steering feels vague.
                                    Access is easy. Reliability has been outstanding."

                                    Reading that issue, it sure doesn't look like they have much of a
                                    problem with the car! The biggest thing was the electric-assisted
                                    steering doesn't feel like hydraulic-assisted steering.

                                    Wayne


                                    >On 8/18/05, David <dringgoldl@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> For those who monitor this site and have yet to purchase...listen to
                                    >> what the owners say. Don't listen to Consumer Reports, CNN, NBC, FOX,
                                    >> CBS or any other news factory that can be bought by the special
                                    >> interests that are working so hard to tear down these awesome cars.
                                    >
                                    >While I understand how CNN, NBC, CBS, and especially FAUX News can be
                                    >bought, since they either come to the table with a right-wing ideology
                                    >(in the case of the latter), or earn their income from large corporate
                                    >advertisers, the same is not true of Consumers Union (CU), publisher
                                    >of Consumer Reports. They take no advertising at all. By what
                                    >mechanism can they be "bought", do you think?
                                    >
                                    >Consumer Reports actually did report what the owners say, and you're
                                    >correct--a record percentage of them say they were satisfied with
                                    >their Prius and would gladly buy another one--more than any car in
                                    >history. That report was also picked up by the national news outlets
                                    >when it occurred earlier this year. Before blaming CU for the tone of
                                    >recent stories, it is wise to note that the network gets the final
                                    >edit.
                                    >
                                    >I have often said things to reporters and been unable to recognize my
                                    >own words in print later on.
                                    >
                                    >--
                                    >=Gary
                                    >'05 Millennium Silver; BI + Wheel Locks, Fog lights, Auto-dimming
                                    >mirror, CoastalEtech EV switch; Garmin StreetPilot 2610 GPS
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links,
                                    >Database and Polls, go to
                                    >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                    >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                    >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                    >
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                    http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                    , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                    http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius

                                    Yahoo! Groups Links
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