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RE: [toyota-prius] Autoweek Article - good perspective on Toyota

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  • Lawrence Murray
    Sam, A very good observation concerning the plight of GM versus the success of Toyota! Now I guess you will have to place me in the pile on group concerning
    Message 1 of 16 , May 2 10:31 AM
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      Sam,

      A very good observation concerning the plight of GM versus the success of
      Toyota! Now I guess you will have to place me in the pile on group
      concerning GM in particular and Detroit in general! Where has the
      initiative gone in American automotive industry! They failed to learn the
      lessons of the past (70's) and thus repeated them in the later part of the
      20 century. Yes, Toyota is no saint. They cater to the market place just
      like any other business. One difference I see is GM seems to cater only to
      a segment of the market (gas wasters)! In many cases they drive the market
      to their way of thinking! Look, I am so sick and tired of foreign companies
      having the answers for our short cominings. It is a trend that is not just
      in the auto industry. Those businesses know who they are! I will leave
      that to another day! We need leaders in our state capitols and Washington
      to simply say what can we do to help ourselves! Now, I am all for free
      trade! This is vital to a stable and growing economy. But why is it we
      here in the US seem to be preaching for this and not truly benifitting. We
      should be the leaders of generating fuel efficient cars! We have the
      knoewledge and resources to do so but not the will!!! If GM and the rest of
      Detroit do not begin to smell the coffee then let the market place dictate
      their fate! This country needs vehicles like the Pruis and Civic hybrid and
      Ford Escape Hybrid. Let's get this thing started and stop the non sense.
      Toyota has laid down the guantlet. Will GM pick it up, will the US auto
      industry pick it up?!!!


      Larry
      04 Salsa Red #6


      P.S. Remember a young John Kennedy set the goal of placing a man on the
      moon! We did! We had a national goal then! No politian since seems to
      have the vision or the brass to do so now!! Sam if there is one, would we
      follow?



      From: "Sam Williams" <s.c.williams@...>
      >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [toyota-prius] Autoweek Article - good perspective on Toyota
      >Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 15:49:49 -0000
      >
      >http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102240
      >
      >Kevin A. Wilson: Prius: A Free Pass for Sequoias
      >KEVIN A. WILSON
      >Published Date: 5/2/05
      >It came to me at the gas pump. The beneficiary of expense-report
      >largesse was a Toyota Tundra, extended cab, iForce V8, 4x4 and�on
      >this particular tankful�a 14-mpg gas-sucker. So the thought that came
      >to me was, "Why does Toyota get a free pass on this stuff?"
      >
      >On the passenger-side front seat was a copy of Wired magazine with a
      >digitally enhanced hot-rod Prius on the cover, proclaiming a story by
      >an author who evidently not only sipped the Toyota Kool-Aid but
      >gulped gallons. Did you know that Toyota�almost singlehandedly if you
      >buy into this account�will save us all from global warming and put
      >hydrogen fuel cell cars in your garage within the decade? Some of us
      >thought that�hybrids aside�Toyota was busily selling mega-SUVs like
      >the aptly named giant Sequoia and aptly nicknamed Land Crusher, not
      >to mention designing ever-more bloated Lexi for fat cats. Fine cars,
      >but not saviors of the earth�at least not until Toyota makes good on
      >its pledge to hybridize everything it makes.
      >
      >For now, asked to nominate a "green" car company, most would point at
      >Honda, where commitment runs across the entire range. Honda has just
      >collected its third straight annual award as the "greenest automaker"
      >from the Union of Concerned Scientists.
      >
      >Meanwhile, Toyota builds a factory in Texas to make a much bigger,
      >badder pickup than this Tundra. Yet in the general press,
      >genuflection toward its sombrero badge has become the norm. Even
      >radical publications that routinely rant about the evils of
      >globalization and corporate giantism are slavering over Toyota. This
      >is so, even though Toyota is poised to become the biggest car company
      >on the planet bar none, supplanting the firm these same publications
      >routinely lash as evil incarnate: General Motors.
      >
      >What makes Toyota benign in their eyes is, of course, the monumental
      >success of the Prius. As one who hailed the breakthrough and clever
      >design of the first-generation model, I've certainly been on the
      >Prius bandwagon. Bandwagons tend to get overloaded and race out of
      >control in the media, though, and the victims of the rah-rah are
      >nuance and perspective. Toyota is a big and growing global concern.
      >It got that way by catering to consumer desires. Whether that desire
      >is for fuel-efficient boxes or overpowered, oversized crates, it's
      >all money in the bank. They're good at it, but why the unquestioning,
      >near-religious fervor?
      >
      >This works the other way, too. Pack journalists smell blood, so
      >they're nipping at GM's heels. Sales got off to a slow start, and
      >suddenly business report�ers who can't tell a hybrid from a hyphen are
      >compar�ing GM's woes to Toyota's success and calling for heads to
      >roll. I called it the "piling-on effect" in a recent radio interview.
      >
      >Dan Neil, Pulitzer-winning L.A. Times car writer (an ex-AW writer
      >whom I'd never lump in among car-ignorant heathens), irri�tated GM
      >enough that the company pulled its ads out of the Times. We've had
      >similar things happen here�with Toyota, and others. This attempt to
      >bring pressure to bear alienates the press, generating more piling-
      >on; it's not quite as clever as hiring private dicks to tail Ralph
      >Nader, but close.
      >
      >Not that the ink�either in the press or the red stuff on the balance
      >sheets�is unearned. It's just that the GM story is no more "red" than
      >matters Toyota are "green." Real life isn't that black-and-white.
      >
      >The automotive beat is fun because the story is in constant flux. One
      >day they're hanging Bob Lutz in effigy, the next they notice he
      >hasn't been at GM long enough to develop new product from the ground
      >up. A dose of Solstice might be solace; add some Sky and people might
      >see light in the darkness. Similarly, one day we're all applauding a
      >Prius, then Toyota rolls out a big-as-Texas truck on a day gasoline
      >hits $3 a gallon.
      >
      >Perspective requires one to look farther down the road than the
      >bottom line on the latest quarterly sales report. I'm not holding my
      >breath.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
      >and Polls, go to
      >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
      >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
      >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • bhamilt
      Larry said: One difference I see is GM seems to cater only to a segment of the market (gas wasters)! ================ Or is it bowing down to oil companies? Do
      Message 2 of 16 , May 2 11:27 AM
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        Larry said:
        One difference I see is GM seems to cater only to a segment of the market
        (gas wasters)!
        ================
        Or is it bowing down to oil companies? Do corporations lobby corporations?

        Betty
      • Manny Fernandez, Jr.
        I hate to say it but the world is not just one big conspiracy. GM does some stupid stuff in my opinion. They are so big that they focus on what is big in
        Message 3 of 16 , May 2 11:48 AM
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          I hate to say it but the world is not just one big conspiracy. GM does some
          stupid stuff in my opinion. They are so big that they focus on what is big
          in their business not what is small. They grew up in a "large batch"
          mentality as a means of success. Because of the many layers of management
          it takes decades for changes to occur. They are driven by short term
          profits which are demanded by large institutional organizations that hold
          the stock. This is further impacted by tying performance and pay to stock
          prices. This in it self is the fundamental problem in the United States
          today. We should do away with stock options as they lead most individuals
          and organizations to do dysfunctional things. Pay for top management is
          outlandish and while they provide leadership the troops touching the product
          really create the wealth. I believe strongly that to correct industry
          across the board we need to change our compensation methodology.

          Manny

          -----Original Message-----
          From: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of bhamilt
          Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 11:27 AM
          To: s.c.williams@...; toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com; Lawrence Murray
          Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Autoweek Article - good perspective on Toyota

          Larry said:
          One difference I see is GM seems to cater only to a segment of the market
          (gas wasters)!
          ================
          Or is it bowing down to oil companies? Do corporations lobby corporations?

          Betty



          To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
          and Polls, go to
          http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
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        • JerryW
          ... I would not know where to start listing down the things GM does wrong. Sad to say, I believe the company is doomed. It s already been in Ch.11 once, hasn t
          Message 4 of 16 , May 2 12:04 PM
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            >
            > GM does some
            > stupid stuff in my opinion. They are so big that they focus on what is big
            > in their business not what is small. They grew up in a "large batch"
            > mentality as a means of success.
            >

            I would not know where to start listing down the things GM does wrong. Sad
            to say, I believe the company is doomed. It's already been in Ch.11 once,
            hasn't it, and is heading that way again.

            The UK industry has gone altogether, but VW and Renault can build a car to
            your specific order and deliver it in a month. So can Toyota, in Japan.
            Henry ford's approach needs updating now...

            Toyota is more profitable than all three US mfrs combined (!) and presumably
            sells those big SUVs because your neighbours want to buy them? They aren't
            on sale here, mostly.

            Regards

            Jerry


            Prius Fan and owner of:
            http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-Europe/


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • JerryW
            ... Interesting article on GM: http://business.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=464872005 Regards Jerry Prius Fan and owner of:
            Message 5 of 16 , May 2 12:33 PM
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              On 02/05/05, JerryW <jerrywh@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I would not know where to start listing down the things GM does wrong. Sad
              > to say, I believe the company is doomed. It's already been in Ch.11 once,
              > hasn't it, and is heading that way again.
              >

              Interesting article on GM:

              http://business.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=464872005

              Regards

              Jerry


              Prius Fan and owner of:
              http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-Europe/


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Woolf, Richard
              ... is big ... Sad ... once, ... car to ... Japan. ... presumably ... aren t ... I would think that a big reason the huge SUVs aren t in Europe is that the
              Message 6 of 16 , May 2 2:39 PM
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                > Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 20:04:18 +0100
                > From: JerryW <jerrywh@...>
                > Subject: Re: Autoweek Article - good perspective on Toyota
                >
                > >
                > > GM does some
                > > stupid stuff in my opinion. They are so big that they focus on what
                is big
                > > in their business not what is small. They grew up in a "large batch"
                > > mentality as a means of success.
                > >
                >
                > I would not know where to start listing down the things GM does wrong.
                Sad
                > to say, I believe the company is doomed. It's already been in Ch.11
                once,
                > hasn't it, and is heading that way again.
                >
                > The UK industry has gone altogether, but VW and Renault can build a
                car to
                > your specific order and deliver it in a month. So can Toyota, in
                Japan.
                > Henry ford's approach needs updating now...
                >
                > Toyota is more profitable than all three US mfrs combined (!) and
                presumably
                > sells those big SUVs because your neighbours want to buy them? They
                aren't
                > on sale here, mostly.
                >
                > Regards
                >
                > Jerry

                I would think that a big reason the huge SUVs aren't in Europe is that
                the European governments' heavily tax gas so that the price stays high
                (even when it isn't here in the US). As we can see by what is happening
                in the US now, higher gas prices make people consider other
                alternatives. When I visit Britain/Europe I look forward to seeing how
                small the cars can get. (I love the miniature Mercedes. I've seen kids
                in the US that have toy electric cars as big). Also, I really enjoy
                that I can get around via something other than a car without giving up
                very much. I think the higher cost of fuel combined with the closer
                proximity of cities makes traveling by alternative means easier than in
                the US. The US has much more space and we seem to think we need to fill
                it. Plus, to be quite honest we're becoming GIANTS. We're getting
                bigger and taller (Blame the growth hormones in the milk and the fast
                food lifestyle). Giant people need giant cars (although, I am a fairly
                fa..uh..BIG guy and I fit comfortably in my Echo & Prius...more so in
                the Echo because if the headroom).

                I was quite shocked when one of the most right-wing, Bush-lovin',
                SUV-driving people in my office came to me the other day and wanted more
                information about hybrids. He's considering purchasing one (but
                absolutely cannot live without an SUV so her could never purchase a
                Prius). I told him about the Highlander. He's also considering the
                Ford Escape. The funny thing is that he got into an argument with
                another right-wing, Bush-lovin' co-worker because he felt that her SUV (
                a Jeep) was bad and sucked up too much gas because it was bigger than
                the SUV he drives (a Honda). His SUV was accepible but hers wasn't. We
                all draw the line somewhere.

                I for one look forward to even higher priced gasoline.


                - Rich, 2001 Aqua Ice Opalescent, 69,000+ Miles, Cincinnati, Ohio
              • JerryW
                ... It would be nice to be able to say it was because we are so much more discriminating and environmentally aware over here, but sadly it isn t so. I can t
                Message 7 of 16 , May 2 3:21 PM
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                  On 02/05/05, Woolf, Richard <richard.woolf@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I would think that a big reason the huge SUVs aren't in Europe is that
                  > the European governments' heavily tax gas so that the price stays high
                  > (even when it isn't here in the US). As we can see by what is happening
                  > in the US now, higher gas prices make people consider other
                  > alternatives.
                  >

                  It would be nice to be able to say it was because we are so much more
                  discriminating and environmentally aware over here, but sadly it isn't so. I
                  can't even get my own children to switch off the lights.

                  Fuel prices probably do have something to do with it, and of course that is
                  one reason [so the government says] why taxes are so high in the first
                  place. A litre of beer is cheaper than a litre of petrol.. Also, very large
                  cars simply are not practical for many people. A discovery or an ml mercedes
                  is about as big as they come and many think that's too big. There are
                  anti-SUV protest groups now, especially around London.

                  Jerry


                  Prius Fan and owner of:
                  http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-Europe/


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sam Williams
                  Toyota is a large and profitable car company. Who else but a large and profitable (and forward looking) car company would take the risk on a hybrid? (Years
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 2 6:38 PM
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                    Toyota is a large and profitable car company. Who else but a large
                    and profitable (and forward looking) car company would take the risk
                    on a hybrid? (Years of R&D, billions of yen.....). They are large
                    and profitable because they have consistently delivered a product that
                    people want to buy, not just today, but for the past 30 years.
                    Americans want big cars; Japanese want small cars, ergo, concomitant
                    Sequoia and Prius from the same manufacturer is no surprise.

                    I favor an increase in the gas tax - gradually. 10 cents per quarter
                    for the next 10 years. $4 on top of today's gas price would be
                    comparable to what much of the rest of the world is paying, and would
                    certainly force a lot of Americans to think twice about buying 4000+
                    lbs. of metal to haul around their 200 lb. carcass. (Carcass
                    estimate reflects increasing median American body-mass.)

                    I think it has to be gradual to allow people to plan. A car is a
                    major expense for most people and they should have time to plan.

                    -Sam
                  • Dave Bassage
                    Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:28:14 -0700 From: Manny Fernandez, Jr. Subject: RE: Autoweek Article - good perspective on Toyota For all of you
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 2 7:58 PM
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                      Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:28:14 -0700
                      From: "Manny Fernandez, Jr." <drmanny3@...>
                      Subject: RE: Autoweek Article - good perspective on Toyota

                      For all of you out there who demand that Toyota and other manufacturers
                      become more green-keep in mind that they are public companies that provide
                      products that consumers want. While we who own the Prius feel high and
                      mighty at our effort to save the world there are a lot of folks out there
                      who don't give a damn. If you want to rapidly change what is being made
                      then we will have to take our clout and use it in the political process to
                      change and create laws. You can dramatically alter the buying habits of the
                      public by using laws, incentives, taxes, etcetera. To demand that Toyota
                      change its product mix to make you happy is not well thought out strategy.
                      We need to look into the future and change things in a way that is not too
                      disruptive and yet accomplishes the goal.

                      I would dare to say that by repealing the Federal law that allows 100% write
                      off in the year of purchase for vehicles over 6000 lbs. would have a
                      significant impact on that market.

                      For all the tree huggers out there, I wonder how many live their lives in
                      total harmony with nature and do everything in their power to save the
                      earth.

                      Manny

                      ==================================

                      Manny, you make a lot of interesting points. A few reactions:

                      I don't think we can look to any one source to institute change. Sometimes
                      the consumer drives it through demand, sometimes progressive businesses
                      drive it by introducing a product we didn't know we needed until given the
                      option, and sometimes government passes laws or incentives to help steer
                      common practices. Not to mention market driven change, which we'll see in
                      the transportation arena when the demand for oil outstrips the supply. In
                      this administration I don't see much in the way of environmental
                      leadership. I see more coming from the business and consumer side. But
                      that could change after another election cycle.

                      I really do believe that we prius owners are on the leading edge of
                      significant change. I just can't see gas getting any cheaper or even
                      holding steady for more than a few months. The financial pressure to
                      consider fuel efficiency when buying a car will continue to mount.

                      I'm also a Toyota fan, and have been for quite a while. Yes, they have
                      their faults, but their whole way of doing business is fundamentally
                      different than US auto makers, and that has started to pay off. I do
                      believe they're committed to incorporating environmental stewardship into
                      their business practices. As I just posted on another group, the WV Toyota
                      manufacturing plant has achieved zero landfill with their processes. Not
                      even lunch room waste ends up in a landfill. They don't publicize this
                      much, but are truly committed to doing what they can to minimize their
                      footprint. The closest I've seen a domestic car maker come to this is when
                      Ford built a facility with a green roof. And if Honda and Toyota want to
                      compete to see who is the greenest, I'm all for it. That's bound to
                      improve performance on both sides.

                      As to your list of personal green practices, there was a lot of good stuff
                      there. The problem is that I fear too many people feel like they should
                      feel guilty if they don't do absolutely everything they can to be green,
                      even if some options just aren't at all practical for them. I don't think
                      we'll ever improve our collective environmental performance through guilt,
                      at least nowhere near enough. So I applaud loudly whenever someone takes
                      even a baby step towards better environmental stewardship, whether an
                      individual, political leader, or business. Rather than set unrealistic
                      goals for ourselves, if we would all just consider the environment in all
                      of our decision making, whether we always do the most environmentally sound
                      thing or not, I honestly think that will get us further toward
                      sustainability. We all make compromises in all aspects of our lives.
                      While I grow and harvest much of my own food, I had to move farther from
                      work to have the room to do so. If I could find a way to work from home I
                      would, but I haven't worked out how yet.

                      An excellent book to help us all through the complex environmental
                      purchasing maze is "How to be an environmentally conscious consumer". They
                      cover everything from cloth vs. disposable diapers, paper vs. plastic
                      shopping bags, to cars, homes, and appliances. There's plenty of detail
                      and some of the insights may surprise you (like about the diapers). The
                      very general conclusion at the end of the book is that the more mass an
                      item has, the more important that your purchasing decision is. You can use
                      a lot of styrofoam cups before you'll ever come close to the impact a poor
                      car or home buying decision has. Which adds more weight to our choice of a
                      Prius, which helps offset a lot of lesser impacts.

                      Dave Bassage
                    • Lee Hart
                      ... I think corporations behave a lot like atheletes. They both want to win very badly, and will work very hard to beat the competition! Ideally, they will
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 2 10:11 PM
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                        Larry said:
                        > One difference I see is GM seems to cater only to a segment of the
                        > market (gas wasters)!

                        bhamilt wrote:
                        > Or is it bowing down to oil companies? Do corporations lobby
                        > corporations?

                        I think corporations behave a lot like atheletes. They both want to
                        "win" very badly, and will work very hard to beat the competition!

                        Ideally, they will compete honestly and fairly. However, some atheletes
                        want to win so badly that they will lie, cheat, or take illegal drugs to
                        win. It's the same with corporations; they will use false advertising,
                        phony bookkeeping, monopolies, bribes, etc. to get what they want.

                        I think that US corporations are simply in a better position to cheat.
                        They can lobby congress, and even write their own rules, and pay
                        congress with campaign donations to pass them into law. They can wrap
                        themselves in "buy American" flags, and claim it is "patriotic" to buy
                        inferior products at higher prices from them. They are in a better
                        position to create monopolies and use other techniques to restrain
                        trade.

                        In contrast, foreign carmakers like Toyota have to compete in a global
                        market. They can't rig the rules so 22.5 mpg is all they have to meet,
                        or get huge R&D grants from the US government for imaginary hydrogen
                        cars, or big tax breaks to sell bloated SUVs.

                        So, they *have* to do better. They have to actually *be* a better
                        athelete to win, and not depend on drugs or bribes or changing the rules
                        to win.

                        I don't doubt for a moment that if they could, that Toyota wouldn't use
                        every trick in the book that GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Lucky for us they
                        can't -- they have to succeed the old-fashioned way.
                        --
                        Ring the bells that you can ring
                        Forget your perfect offering
                        There is a crack in everything
                        That's how the light gets in
                        -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
                        --
                        Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
                      • Paul Lawler
                        Perhaps you haven t noticed that most Toyotas sold in the U.S. (Prius being a notable exception) are made in the U.S. In terms of lobbying, they are for all
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 3 7:26 AM
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                          Perhaps you haven't noticed that most Toyotas sold in the U.S. (Prius
                          being a notable exception) are made in the U.S. In terms of lobbying,
                          they are for all practical purposes a U.S. carmaker.

                          On May 3, 2005, at 12:11 AM, Lee Hart wrote:

                          > In contrast, foreign carmakers like Toyota have to compete in a global
                          > market. They can't rig the rules so 22.5 mpg is all they have to meet,
                          > or get huge R&D grants from the US government for imaginary hydrogen
                          > cars, or big tax breaks to sell bloated SUVs.
                        • Akhare0419@aol.com
                          Allow people to plan for a gradual transition ? This will only help consolidate profit making in Oil Business. That will create a host of multiple problems.
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 3 7:36 AM
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                            Allow people to plan for a gradual transition ? This will only help consolidate profit making in Oil Business. That will create a host of multiple problems.

                            Anil Khare


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Sam Williams <s.c.williams@...>
                            To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:38:52 -0000
                            Subject: [toyota-prius] Toyota


                            Toyota is a large and profitable car company. Who else but a large
                            and profitable (and forward looking) car company would take the risk
                            on a hybrid? (Years of R&D, billions of yen.....). They are large
                            and profitable because they have consistently delivered a product that
                            people want to buy, not just today, but for the past 30 years.
                            Americans want big cars; Japanese want small cars, ergo, concomitant
                            Sequoia and Prius from the same manufacturer is no surprise.

                            I favor an increase in the gas tax - gradually. 10 cents per quarter
                            for the next 10 years. $4 on top of today's gas price would be
                            comparable to what much of the rest of the world is paying, and would
                            certainly force a lot of Americans to think twice about buying 4000+
                            lbs. of metal to haul around their 200 lb. carcass. (Carcass
                            estimate reflects increasing median American body-mass.)

                            I think it has to be gradual to allow people to plan. A car is a
                            major expense for most people and they should have time to plan.

                            -Sam






                            To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and
                            Polls, go to
                            http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                            , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                            http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius

                            Yahoo! Groups Links






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Gina-n@snet.net
                            Don t forget the psychological factors TV advertising aimed at peoples insecurities the big is safer thought encouraged by advertisers. The governments fear
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 3 7:42 AM
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                              Don't forget the psychological factors TV advertising aimed at peoples
                              insecurities the big is safer thought encouraged by advertisers. The
                              governments fear mongering doesn't help a bit




                              <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                              Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are
                              putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain

                              <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                            • Lawrence Murray
                              Paul, Your point is correct!! However, the task masters of Toyota are in Japan!! Their direction, managemnt style and corprate culture is Japaness!! Ford is
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 3 11:48 AM
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                                Paul,

                                Your point is correct!! However, the task masters of Toyota are in Japan!!
                                Their direction, managemnt style and corprate culture is Japaness!! Ford is
                                made in several other countries as well. No one thinks of Ford as nothing
                                more than an American Auto Maker!


                                Larry
                                04 Salsa Red #6


                                >From: Paul Lawler <paul@...>
                                >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Autoweek Article - good perspective on Toyota
                                >Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 09:26:02 -0500
                                >
                                >Perhaps you haven't noticed that most Toyotas sold in the U.S. (Prius
                                >being a notable exception) are made in the U.S. In terms of lobbying,
                                >they are for all practical purposes a U.S. carmaker.
                                >
                                >On May 3, 2005, at 12:11 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
                                >
                                > > In contrast, foreign carmakers like Toyota have to compete in a global
                                > > market. They can't rig the rules so 22.5 mpg is all they have to meet,
                                > > or get huge R&D grants from the US government for imaginary hydrogen
                                > > cars, or big tax breaks to sell bloated SUVs.
                                >
                                >
                                >
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