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Re: [toyota-prius] mysterystealth

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  • Peter Blackford
    ... there you go, trying to make us jealous.... ;-) ... Since there is no reverse gear, per se, reverse uses only electric power. The more aggressively you
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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      gelaina wrote:
      >
      > I have owned my Prius04 for about 2 weeks

      there you go, trying to make us jealous.... ;-)

      > and I have experienced
      > stealth but not to the magnitude proclaimed by other Prius owners.
      > The most stealth I have noticed is about 10 feet as I have backed
      > out of our driveway.

      Since there is no reverse gear, per se, reverse uses only electric power. The
      more aggressively you push the go-pedal, the more likely you are to force the
      ICE to stop in reverse. This is a clue..

      > The engine definitely switches off at a stop
      > light, but turns on after the brake is released and I push on the
      > accelerator.

      Push more gently... the more you demand in acceleration, the more the Prius
      tries to provide by bringing all power on line.

      Now that you know that, just STAND ON IT and enjoy the acceleration! It really
      doesn't hurt mpg very much, and it's much more fun. Save stealth for the
      neighborhoods where the cruise can lock in at 24 mph and keep the car in EV-mode
      for a few miles.

      > Other owners state stealth on the Pruis will sustain itself up to 35 mph.

      It can & should, if you're gentle on the pedal.

      > Is the stealth factor dependent on the use of
      > air conditioner etc. in the car or is it independent of these energy
      > users?

      Less so in the 04, as the AC is electrically driven.

      > Is is dependent of outside air temperature.

      Not too much, unless the ICE is still warming up. Cold does increase drag when
      lubricants get REALLY cold, but too early in the season yet for that. Pushing
      snow out of the way takes more energy too...

      > MPGs appear to be too low. City driving seems to be producing something under 40
      > mpg. Does anyone have any ideas about this.

      As yes, grasshopper! First, check the tire pressures. Soft tires (some cars
      are delivered with SHAMEFULLY low tires) are a big contributor to drag. Put AT
      LEAST the recommended amount of air in, perhaps a few psi extra (not much info
      on this yet for the '04, but 42F/40R works well in the classic). Get a good
      gauge, if you don't already have one.

      Check the oil level (should be full, but not OVER full), and also let us know
      your average trip length as this is an mpg killer in ALL cars (it's just easier
      to know the mpg in the Prius). That's length in miles, as well as time.

      Stay in touch,

      Pete
    • john1701a
      Pete s list is practically perfect, except one point (which doesn t apply to everyone)... If you live in an area that drops to 20F degrees or colder, say
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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        Pete's list is practically perfect, except one point (which doesn't
        apply to everyone)...

        If you live in an area that drops to 20F degrees or colder, say
        goodbye to stealth. It was virtually impossible to even creep
        forward a little without the engine restarting. The need for heat
        was just too great.

        That was with my classic. The tolerance for the 2004 might be
        lower. But then again, that's only if you have the heater on low.
        If you have it on high, the engine might not shut off until spring.

        Winter is tough to except with the Multi-Display reminding you of the
        efficiency loss. But then again, it does inform you that you are
        still getting MPG better than everyone else anyway.

        JOHN
        http://john1701a.com
      • Jerry Jorgenson
        On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:24:50 -0000 ... LOL Sorry John, I just got this mental picture of the car sitting and running 7x24 till spring. Jerry -- Jerry Jorgenson
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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          On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:24:50 -0000
          "john1701a" <john1701a@...> wrote:

          >
          > That was with my classic. The tolerance for the 2004 might be
          > lower. But then again, that's only if you have the heater on low.
          > If you have it on high, the engine might not shut off until spring.

          LOL

          Sorry John, I just got this mental picture of the car sitting and running
          7x24 till spring.

          Jerry

          --
          Jerry Jorgenson
          jerry@...
          http://www.j3iss.com/
        • James
          I ve read in many of these postings air pressures for Prius tires at least to me, at unheard of pressures (42 psi front/40 psi rear). Are these numbers the
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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            I've read in many of these postings air pressures for Prius tires at least
            to me, at unheard of pressures (42 psi front/40 psi rear). Are these
            numbers the recommended tire inflation by Toyota? If not, I'm wondering
            with such high tire pressures the effect upon the ride and suspension
            system? Most tires have upper recommended air pressures of 35 or 36 psi.
            Are the tires you're recommending 42F/40R inflation capable of withstanding
            such high pressures?

            Just wondering,

            James (long time hybrid & Prius fan, waiting on '04 Superwhite BC on order)


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Peter Blackford" <PriusPete@...>
            To: "gelaina" <gelaina@...>
            Cc: <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:11 AM
            Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] mysterystealth


            > gelaina wrote:
            > >
            > > I have owned my Prius04 for about 2 weeks
            >
            > there you go, trying to make us jealous.... ;-)
            >
            > > and I have experienced
            > > stealth but not to the magnitude proclaimed by other Prius owners.
            > > The most stealth I have noticed is about 10 feet as I have backed
            > > out of our driveway.
            >
            > Since there is no reverse gear, per se, reverse uses only electric power.
            The
            > more aggressively you push the go-pedal, the more likely you are to force
            the
            > ICE to stop in reverse. This is a clue..
            >
            > > The engine definitely switches off at a stop
            > > light, but turns on after the brake is released and I push on the
            > > accelerator.
            >
            > Push more gently... the more you demand in acceleration, the more the
            Prius
            > tries to provide by bringing all power on line.
            >
            > Now that you know that, just STAND ON IT and enjoy the acceleration! It
            really
            > doesn't hurt mpg very much, and it's much more fun. Save stealth for the
            > neighborhoods where the cruise can lock in at 24 mph and keep the car in
            EV-mode
            > for a few miles.
            >
            > > Other owners state stealth on the Pruis will sustain itself up to 35
            mph.
            >
            > It can & should, if you're gentle on the pedal.
            >
            > > Is the stealth factor dependent on the use of
            > > air conditioner etc. in the car or is it independent of these energy
            > > users?
            >
            > Less so in the 04, as the AC is electrically driven.
            >
            > > Is is dependent of outside air temperature.
            >
            > Not too much, unless the ICE is still warming up. Cold does increase drag
            when
            > lubricants get REALLY cold, but too early in the season yet for that.
            Pushing
            > snow out of the way takes more energy too...
            >
            > > MPGs appear to be too low. City driving seems to be producing something
            under 40
            > > mpg. Does anyone have any ideas about this.
            >
            > As yes, grasshopper! First, check the tire pressures. Soft tires (some
            cars
            > are delivered with SHAMEFULLY low tires) are a big contributor to drag.
            Put AT
            > LEAST the recommended amount of air in, perhaps a few psi extra (not much
            info
            > on this yet for the '04, but 42F/40R works well in the classic). Get a
            good
            > gauge, if you don't already have one.
            >
            > Check the oil level (should be full, but not OVER full), and also let us
            know
            > your average trip length as this is an mpg killer in ALL cars (it's just
            easier
            > to know the mpg in the Prius). That's length in miles, as well as time.
            >
            > Stay in touch,
            >
            > Pete
            >
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            > toyota-prius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
            and Polls, go to
            > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            >
          • Jerry Jorgenson
            On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:54:02 -0600 ... The tires on the Classic are 50 psi rated and the 2004 are 44 psi rated. Search the archives in this group and the 2004
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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              On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:54:02 -0600
              "James" <pjschles@...> wrote:

              > I've read in many of these postings air pressures for Prius tires at
              > least to me, at unheard of pressures (42 psi front/40 psi rear). Are
              > these numbers the recommended tire inflation by Toyota? If not, I'm
              > wondering with such high tire pressures the effect upon the ride and
              > suspension system? Most tires have upper recommended air pressures of
              > 35 or 36 psi. Are the tires you're recommending 42F/40R inflation
              > capable of withstanding such high pressures?
              >
              > Just wondering,
              >
              > James (long time hybrid & Prius fan, waiting on '04 Superwhite BC on
              > order)

              The tires on the Classic are 50 psi rated and the 2004 are 44 psi rated.
              Search the archives in this group and the 2004 group for "DOT", "slip
              angle", and "ambient" (three separate searches). This will bring up some
              long posts with some detailed explanations.

              IMHO the ride is not noticably different at the higher pressures (except
              that the tires loose their "squishy" feeling that they have when inflated
              at 35 psi or lower), and the handling improves.

              Jerry

              --
              Jerry Jorgenson
              jerry@...
              http://www.j3iss.com/
            • Peter Blackford
              Well, to start with, the max cold rating of Prius (US) tires is 50 psi -- so we are much safer at 42/40 than a 35 psi tire at 35, right? Many American cars
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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                Well, to start with, the max cold rating of Prius (US) tires is 50 psi -- so we
                are much 'safer' at 42/40 than a 35 psi tire at 35, right? Many American cars
                have this rating/recommendation, and the only ones with tire 'issues' are the
                ones where the owner ignores the pressure until they're so soft they fall off
                the rims.... and then, of course, they try to blame the tire company.

                Also, it does lower rolling resistance (slightly more mpg), and MOST importantly
                it has been demonstrated in most cases to significantly improve tire life
                (reduces edge wear, which is usually an indicator of underinflation, and is seen
                often when using 'factory' pressures).

                Yes, ride is somewhat more affected by road surface, but grip & transient
                handling response is superior at the higher psi.

                Try it, you may like it.

                Pete

                James wrote:
                >
                > I've read in many of these postings air pressures for Prius tires at least
                > to me, at unheard of pressures (42 psi front/40 psi rear). Are these
                > numbers the recommended tire inflation by Toyota? If not, I'm wondering
                > with such high tire pressures the effect upon the ride and suspension
                > system? Most tires have upper recommended air pressures of 35 or 36 psi.
                > Are the tires you're recommending 42F/40R inflation capable of withstanding
                > such high pressures?
                >
                > Just wondering,
                >
                > James (long time hybrid & Prius fan, waiting on '04 Superwhite BC on order)
              • Jerry Jorgenson
                On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:43:00 -0500 ... Or is as long as the wheel s maximum pressure is adequate for a 50 psi tire. Many wheels have a 60 psi maximum rating
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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                  On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:43:00 -0500
                  Peter Blackford <PriusPete@...> wrote:

                  > Well, to start with, the max cold rating of Prius (US) tires is 50 psi
                  > -- so we are much 'safer' at 42/40 than a 35 psi tire at 35, right?

                  Or is as long as the wheel's maximum pressure is adequate for a 50 psi
                  tire. Many wheels have a 60 psi maximum rating It's not hard to come up
                  with a scenario where the tires could go over 60 psi when inflated to
                  their 50 psi cold pressure rating (summer desert operation, plus maximum
                  load, plus 80 mph ought to it).

                  > Many American cars
                  > have this rating/recommendation, and the only ones with tire 'issues'
                  > are the ones where the owner ignores the pressure until they're so soft
                  > they fall off the rims.... and then, of course, they try to blame the
                  > tire company.

                  Correct.

                  > Also, it does lower rolling resistance (slightly more mpg), and MOST
                  > importantly it has been demonstrated in most cases to significantly
                  > improve tire life(reduces edge wear, which is usually an indicator of
                  > underinflation, and is seen often when using 'factory' pressures).

                  Mostly because people don't do a daily pressure check, and so are often
                  running on underinfated tires. The best mileage I received on a vehicle
                  (relative to the normal mileage recieved on that particular tire) was once
                  when I actually checked the pressures every day for two years. It was
                  double the mileage. I don't expect anyone to actually do this, so the next
                  best thing is to figure out the correct pressure for their environment
                  (based on the charts that I published earlier in the 2004 group) and then
                  add a few psi to cover the "lazyness factor".

                  > Yes, ride is somewhat more affected by road surface, but grip &
                  > transient handling response is superior at the higher psi.

                  Not to mention hydroplanning. I might also add that tire construction and
                  tread compound also play a significant role in ride comfort.

                  Jerry


                  --
                  Jerry Jorgenson
                  jerry@...
                  http://www.j3iss.com/
                • bobjbkln
                  For most people your actual City mileage will be worse than your moderate speed highway mileage. The EPA City mileage test has nothing to do with real city
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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                    For most people your actual City mileage will be worse than your
                    moderate speed highway mileage. The EPA City mileage test has
                    nothing to do with real city driving (in a real City like NY). Real
                    City driving often involves short trips, a real MPG killer (more so
                    in the classic than the '04, because the Classic won't go into
                    stealth--even at a dead stop--until the car heats up). Stop and
                    start will also hurt MPG. If you could see what your real City
                    mileage is in a regular ICE car, you'd be astounded. Maybe 10-15 MPG
                    for a Corolla (2-5 for a Hummer).

                    My first 5 minute bar usually shows 5 or 10 MPG. My pattern: start
                    the car and drive 25 feet to outside my parking lot gate. Get out of
                    the car, close the gate, get back in the car and drive to the traffic
                    light at the end of the block. Sometimes I have to wait a second
                    cycle to get through the light. Make a right turn and wait at the
                    next light 200 feet down. By the time the first bar shows up, I have
                    driven perhaps 500 feet with the ICE on all the way and with about 6
                    or so starts from a dead stop. No wonder I only get 5 MPG.

                    OTOH today I had occasion to fill up and drive 70 Miles at speeds of
                    50 to 65 MPH. This included one rest of 5.5 hours, so the car had to
                    heat up once. At the end of the 70 miles, the screen showed 58.5 MPG.
                    --
                    Peace,
                    BobJ



                    --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Jorgenson <jerry@j...>
                    wrote:
                    > On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:43:00 -0500
                    > Peter Blackford <PriusPete@e...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Well, to start with, the max cold rating of Prius (US) tires is
                    50 psi
                    > > -- so we are much 'safer' at 42/40 than a 35 psi tire at 35,
                    right?
                    >
                    > Or is as long as the wheel's maximum pressure is adequate for a 50
                    psi
                    > tire. Many wheels have a 60 psi maximum rating It's not hard to
                    come up
                    > with a scenario where the tires could go over 60 psi when inflated
                    to
                    > their 50 psi cold pressure rating (summer desert operation, plus
                    maximum
                    > load, plus 80 mph ought to it).
                    >
                    > > Many American cars
                    > > have this rating/recommendation, and the only ones with
                    tire 'issues'
                    > > are the ones where the owner ignores the pressure until they're
                    so soft
                    > > they fall off the rims.... and then, of course, they try to blame
                    the
                    > > tire company.
                    >
                    > Correct.
                    >
                    > > Also, it does lower rolling resistance (slightly more mpg), and
                    MOST
                    > > importantly it has been demonstrated in most cases to
                    significantly
                    > > improve tire life(reduces edge wear, which is usually an
                    indicator of
                    > > underinflation, and is seen often when using 'factory' pressures).
                    >
                    > Mostly because people don't do a daily pressure check, and so are
                    often
                    > running on underinfated tires. The best mileage I received on a
                    vehicle
                    > (relative to the normal mileage recieved on that particular tire)
                    was once
                    > when I actually checked the pressures every day for two years. It
                    was
                    > double the mileage. I don't expect anyone to actually do this, so
                    the next
                    > best thing is to figure out the correct pressure for their
                    environment
                    > (based on the charts that I published earlier in the 2004 group)
                    and then
                    > add a few psi to cover the "lazyness factor".
                    >
                    > > Yes, ride is somewhat more affected by road surface, but grip &
                    > > transient handling response is superior at the higher psi.
                    >
                    > Not to mention hydroplanning. I might also add that tire
                    construction and
                    > tread compound also play a significant role in ride comfort.
                    >
                    > Jerry
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Jerry Jorgenson
                    > jerry@j...
                    > http://www.j3iss.com/
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