Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: How much natural gas can my Prius use?

Expand Messages
  • docaaron1
    ... Gasoline is gasoline no matter where it comes from. Ethanol consumes 60% to 80% of its energy content from non-renewable sources in production. Diesel is
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 7, 2013
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment

      It will be interesting to see who wins to be the natural gas car of the future.  Will it be the Honda Civic GX (natural gas version) or will the Prius come out on top with the natural gas converted to liquid fuels?

       

      I think natural gas conversion to liquid fuels goes back to around World War II.  It was an energy loosing process back then, as I understand it.  With the modern techniques it now looks like it may become a competitive solution.

       

      Let's not forget natural gas conversion to methanol for the methanol powered fuel cell (Prius).

       

      This should get interesting.

       

      Aaron

      '02 prius

      141 Miles

      Peak oil-The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones.

       



      ---In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, <dkelly@...> wrote:

      On Oct 6, 2013, at 9:02 AM, docaaron1@... wrote:

      > Up to 10% ethanol now plus down the road, how much bio-isobutanol plus how much gasoline derived from natural gas. I believe all three of these processes are natural gas driven or based (not sure). So the future Prius may be a natural gas powered car and not even know it.

      Gasoline is gasoline no matter where it comes from.

      Ethanol consumes 60% to 80% of its energy content from non-renewable sources in production. Diesel is used on the farm to haul seed to the field and plant it. To haul fertilizer which is made from natural gas. More diesel to harvest and haul to market. Natural gas to fire the distillery. More diesel to haul ethanol to fuel depots because it can't be pipelined without a dedicated ethanol-only pipe. So you can accurately say about half of ethanol's energy content comes from natural gas.

      Natural gas in its gaseous state is bulky and difficult to handle for transportation uses. Many different means of liquifying NG and/or converting to another product in liquid form have been proposed. Synthetic motor oil comes from natural gas. Very similar procedure can make synthetic diesel. Exactly the same as diesel only purer with greater controls on precise content. No sulfur because it never had sulfur to remove. The synthetic oil process won't make gasoline but others say they have processes that will. Problem is this sort of thing requires $1B plants that take many years to build, many years of appeasing the government to let it be built. And once its built the markets may have changed pricing their product out of the market.

      --
      David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
      ============================================================
      Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
    • alantbowler
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 7, 2013
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        > ---In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, <dkelly@...> wrote:
        > On Oct 6, 2013, at 9:02 AM, docaaron1@... wrote:
        >  No sulfur because it never had sulfur to remove.

        Not exactly accurate.  Natural gas at the well often
        has a lot of sulphur.  Sulphur used to be a valuable
        commodity.  Natural gas production changed that
        and mountains of the stuff started piling up around
        natural gas processsing plants.  This even before
        the acid-rain problem was widely recognized and
        coal plants had to start worring about their output.
      • David Kelly
        ... Second Law of Thermodynamics says you will always lose energy when changing things. But that is no reason not to. Just look at how much non-renewable
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 15, 2013
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          On Oct 7, 2013, at 7:29 AM, docaaron1@... wrote:

          > I think natural gas conversion to liquid fuels goes back to around World War II. It was an energy loosing process back then, as I understand it. With the modern techniques it now looks like it may become a competitive solution.

          Second Law of Thermodynamics says you will always lose energy when changing things. But that is no reason not to. Just look at how much non-renewable energy is consumed making supposedly renewable ethanol?

          Natural gas is underutilized. That makes it cheap. Cheap stimulates the profit motive to find ways to make use of natural gas. Once found, profit will be made by the inventors until the price of NG rises.

          --
          David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
          ============================================================
          Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.