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Re: [toyota-prius] Re: Lincoln road trip (NPC)

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  • David Kelly
    ... Reynolds acts as if Ford has never built a hybrid before, and somehow is privy to Toyota s experience? Ford has been building hybrids in the USA since
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 15, 2013
      On Jun 15, 2013, at 5:13 AM, Reynolds wrote:

      > Thanks Peter. Nice to know Lincoln has embraced the future. Sounds like a very nice first drive. But logic would tell us it should have few wrinkles to iron out as Lincoln has the benefit of 13 years of the Prius line to benefit from, and of course the Honda, GM and Ford models as well.

      Reynolds acts as if Ford has never built a hybrid before, and somehow is privy to Toyota's experience? Ford has been building hybrids in the USA since 2004.

      On Jun 15, 2013, at 5:17 PM, Burt Trattner wrote:

      > Lincoln, not only is a well made car, but Ford has been garnering many
      > years of experience with their own hybrids.

      I can't say I'm terribly impressed with my neighbor's mkVIII having seat motor failures, and window lift motor failures, and transmission, ... while to the best of my knowledge his wife's Lexus of similar age and mileage has only needed new mounts for the top of front macpherson struts at 100k+ miles. She had the struts replaced while they were in there.

      But in Ford's defense it is apparent as recent as 10 years ago that they knew they were lagging and in need of significant quality control improvements. Unlike GM and Chrysler, Ford actually made these improvements.

      As of 2008 one item Ford was still having troubles with across their entire product line was the controls for dual-controlled HVAC. Many Lincolns and Fords developed cyclic clicking noises which would eventually become a significant temperature difference between left and right sides. My 2008 required 74°F on the driver's side to match 60°F on the passenger side for air conditioning. The passenger side was in error. A couple of months after the repair the clicking returned. Traded the truck before it broke again. The entire dash had to be removed to repair under warranty which expired shortly after the repair.

      Then there is the Ford/Microsoft Sync system in newer vehicles. To Ford's credit they realized an advanced system was needed, but the execution reminded everyone of the old joke "What if Microsoft built a car?"

      A friend has a 2012 F-150 Raptor, Ford's top of the line. The program for shifting the transmission is insane. I see others make similar complaints for other Ford models. To the Ford's credit and the dealer, he goes back periodically and they tweak the shift program for him. They can tweak specific shift points. For example originally cruising at 35 MPH the transmission would shift to top gear and lock up (disable torque converter) which made the engine lug, stumble, and shake at too low of an RPM.

      --
      David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
      ========================================================================
      Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
    • Peter Blackford
      Never fear - still have our NHW11 also, with no plans to give it up. Looking forward to showing the first new-era (not forgetting Woods in the teens...) hybrid
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 16, 2013
        Never fear - still have our NHW11 also, with no plans to give it up.
        Looking forward to showing the first new-era (not forgetting Woods in the
        teens...) hybrid at an AACA show in 2026. Current more-frequent-drivers
        will be the 2.0h and the RAV4 EV - an "optimal combination" (IMHO) for
        daily around town (the EV, of course) and occasional second-car needs and
        highway-trip use.

        Second travel day with the 2.0h saw more higher temperatures, and
        higher-speed highway miles combined with some hilly small-town (lots of
        lights...) touring which brought the average down to just below 41. Such
        are the sacrifices we make for luxury, The cooled seats are nice - they
        actually have their own heat pump...not run off the AC system... but they
        do reset at car shutoff. Manual says "when engine stops", but that's not
        true in the hybrid (thank goodness!). This all meant less opportunity for
        the car to 'drop into' EV mode, but still a pleasant drive and no fatigue
        evident.

        Also still finding new seating positions - and noticed that raising the
        rear of the seat cushion will also, as it approaches its limit, raise the
        entire seat. A LOT. This creates new 'territory' for shorter drivers -
        thus, not only does the Lincoln provide better accommodation for really
        tall folks, but it's also considerably better for those "vertically
        challenged" as well.

        The NAV REALLY needs updating, and the procedure is in the 475-page manual
        so we'll try to do that this morning before starting out. 650+
        miles in so far Second fuel fill was less than $30 (similar to the
        first), and fuel gauge appears to be (is it possible?) reasonably accurate.

        Pete


        On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 6:13 AM, Reynolds <reynoldscushman@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Thanks Peter. Nice to know Lincoln has embraced the future. Sounds like a
        > very nice first drive. But logic would tell us it should have few wrinkles
        > to iron out as Lincoln has the benefit of 13 years of the Prius line to
        > benefit from, and of course the Honda, GM and Ford models as well.
        >
        > Report back once you log a few miles. Not that I'm likely to buy a Lincoln
        > anytime soon. I'm still driving my 2001 (315k) and my "newer" 2002 (151k)
        > and will until the wheels refuse to rotate on either. That will be awhile.
        >
        > To quote a line from the movie Lonesome Dove, while driving the herd to
        > Montana Call says to Gus, "you've never been one to quit a garment just
        > because its got a little wear on it." My sentiment exactly!
        >
        > Reynolds
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • docaaron1
        Glad to see you are still keeping the 1st generation Prius. Mine is giving hints of needing a new traction battery but still drives like new. The other day
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 18, 2013
          Glad to see you are still keeping the 1st generation Prius. Mine is giving hints of needing a new traction battery but still drives like new. The other day the turtle lit up for a short time. The car drove the same but I decided not to test the acceleration. Turtles are good luck and "are considered guardians of good feng shui energy".

          Keep us informed how the new Lincoln hybrid does. Good to see some good old hybrid competition to raise the bar for us all.

          Aaron
          138K miles
          '02 Prius
        • Peter Blackford
          Last report from the road as we re nearing home. More AC use (temps around 93-94 yesterday) as well as more interstate roads (73 mph) have brought mpg down
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 18, 2013
            Last report "from the road" as we're nearing home. More AC use (temps
            around 93-94 yesterday) as well as more interstate roads (73 mph) have
            brought mpg down to about 40. Still not too shabby, and surely the
            "standard EPA test loop" would produce more like the 45 advertised - but
            who drives exactly like that? It would be interesting to see what the
            Prius V or Lexus does under similar conditions - anyone have a datapoint to
            share?
            Still enjoying the adaptive cruise - if it's offered on a car you're
            considering, DO IT! On this car, it will bring the car down to an absolute
            halt if needed (I tested this after first making sure there was no
            following traffic, just to see how it worked). Not sure how a "regular"
            model would act without the benefit of regenerative braking, but on the
            hybrid it's a wonderful addition.
            Many of the 'toys' are surely common/standard these days, but it's been "a
            few years" since we bought a new car, so be patient with the technology
            catch-up process on our part... ;-)
            Pete

            On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:58 AM, docaaron1 <docaaron1@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Glad to see you are still keeping the 1st generation Prius. Mine is giving
            > hints of needing a new traction battery but still drives like new. The
            > other day the turtle lit up for a short time. The car drove the same but I
            > decided not to test the acceleration. Turtles are good luck and "are
            > considered guardians of good feng shui energy".
            >
            > Keep us informed how the new Lincoln hybrid does. Good to see some good
            > old hybrid competition to raise the bar for us all.
            >
            > Aaron
            > 138K miles
            > '02 Prius
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Kelly
            ... At 70 MPH my 2007 NHW20 gets 45 MPG in the winter. So 40 MPG with a nicer ride and higher speed is simply excellent. I m getting to the point I ll drive my
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 18, 2013
              On Jun 18, 2013, at 6:28 AM, Peter Blackford wrote:

              > Last report "from the road" as we're nearing home. More AC use (temps
              > around 93-94 yesterday) as well as more interstate roads (73 mph) have
              > brought mpg down to about 40. Still not too shabby, and surely the
              > "standard EPA test loop" would produce more like the 45 advertised - but
              > who drives exactly like that? It would be interesting to see what the
              > Prius V or Lexus does under similar conditions - anyone have a datapoint to
              > share?

              At 70 MPH my 2007 NHW20 gets 45 MPG in the winter. So 40 MPG with a nicer ride and higher speed is simply excellent. I'm getting to the point I'll drive my ML320BT on long trip at 29 MPG (diesel) for superior quieter ride.

              > Still enjoying the adaptive cruise - if it's offered on a car you're
              > considering, DO IT! On this car, it will bring the car down to an absolute
              > halt if needed (I tested this after first making sure there was no
              > following traffic, just to see how it worked). Not sure how a "regular"
              > model would act without the benefit of regenerative braking, but on the
              > hybrid it's a wonderful addition.

              British TV show "5th Gear" tested some of those for the ability to prevent a rear end collision. Some only slowed the collision at higher speeds, but it was still amazing. Last year when I tried to buy a new ML350BT "Active Driver's Assistance" package was on my mandatory list. When dealer couldn't hit enough of my mandatory requirements, even on order, I walked. 4 months later the Ford dealer had a prior generation ML (which the current Driver's Assistance was not yet available) for half the price the M-B dealer was talking new. So I bought.

              --
              David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
              ========================================================================
              Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
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