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Speaking of Gas Mileage...

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  • Doug Howard
    Hi, Everyone... Recent chat about gas mileage here prodded my mind about an article which appeared in a US car magazine lo, some decades ago. I think it was
    Message 1 of 18 , May 16, 2013
      Hi, Everyone...

      Recent chat about gas mileage here prodded my mind about an article
      which appeared in a US car magazine lo, some decades ago. I think it was
      either Car & Driver, or Motor Trend...

      It was about increasing gas mileage. The gist was: to increase your
      highway mileage...go up to about five mph over your planned road speed,
      then slowly ease off the throttle until you reach your planned road
      speed. For instance accelerate to 65, then slowly drop to 60...

      Mind you, this article was back before we had electronic metering,
      cruise control and fuel injection. I've no idea if those premises would
      work today.

      In mid-July, I'm driving from central Indiana to western Oregon. As I
      have the time, I may try this, going up to 60mph, then dropping back to
      55...in my new 2013 Prius. Might prove interesting!

      Doug Howard
      Flora, Indiana
    • Edward Bonsell
      Hi All, I was wondering since the prius doesn t get good milage the first few minutes while it s warming up. Would it be cost effective to start it up a few
      Message 2 of 18 , May 17, 2013
        Hi All,

        I was wondering since the prius doesn't get good milage the first few minutes while it's warming up. Would it be cost effective to start it up a few minutes early and let it warm up before starting to drive it?

        Ed
      • bobf823usa
        ... Yes, what the article described is a mild form of pulse driving . It s definitely been mentioned in this group as a way of hypermiling with a Prius. The
        Message 3 of 18 , May 17, 2013
          --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Howard" <hdouglas.doug@...> wrote:
          >
          > It was about increasing gas mileage. The gist was: to increase your
          > highway mileage...go up to about five mph over your planned road speed,
          > then slowly ease off the throttle until you reach your planned road
          > speed. For instance accelerate to 65, then slowly drop to 60...

          Yes, what the article described is a mild form of "pulse driving". It's definitely been mentioned in this group as a way of hypermiling with a Prius. The Prius version is to accelerate kind of briskly to a higher speed and then feather the throttle to keep the car on electric only as it slows back down. You will probably find a lot of material here if you search on the term.

          Extreme pulse driving takes you over a wide range of speed, so it can be very annoying to your passengers and other drivers. (Not to mention safety issues.) I've never tried it, but there are those who swear it makes a big difference to mpg.

          Bob F
          cruise control works for me
        • Burt Trattner
          Doug, It worked before the Hybridtechnology for different reasons. But with a Prius, even more so, with a twist. Don t back off the pedal. Instead, remove the
          Message 4 of 18 , May 17, 2013
            Doug,
            It worked before the Hybridtechnology for different reasons.

            But with a Prius, even more so, with a twist. Don't back off the pedal.
            Instead, remove the foot for a 1/2 secondand then gradually increase
            pedal. Keep your eye on 2 gauges. The MPG gauge and the ECO gauge. If
            conditions are met (warmed up, light loads) and you keep the progress
            bar to the left off the center (ECO) you will see 100 MPG (mostly
            on...if not all battery).
            You can keep it there until either the battery gets too low or you need
            to speed up due to a grade. If the battery is over 95% charged, it will
            still stay on 100MPG even if you go off the center line on the ECO
            gauge. On level ground with no headwinds, I can still go over 60 mph on
            traction battery for ashort while (another several minutes, depending)

            Burt 99 HD


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Kelly
            ... A mild form can be experienced on gently rolling terrain. On cruise control one might get 25 MPG up hill and 50-100 down the other side. Driving by foot if
            Message 5 of 18 , May 17, 2013
              On May 17, 2013, at 11:59 AM, bobf823usa <flbrkf@...> wrote:

              > Yes, what the article described is a mild form of "pulse driving". It's definitely been mentioned in this group as a way of hypermiling with a Prius. The Prius version is to accelerate kind of briskly to a higher speed and then feather the throttle to keep the car on electric only as it slows back down. You will probably find a lot of material here if you search on the term.
              >
              > Extreme pulse driving takes you over a wide range of speed, so it can be very annoying to your passengers and other drivers. (Not to mention safety issues.) I've never tried it, but there are those who swear it makes a big difference to mpg.

              A mild form can be experienced on gently rolling terrain. On cruise control one might get 25 MPG up hill and 50-100 down the other side. Driving by foot if one gives just a little extra on the downhill side then holds foot steady or very gently rises on the uphill side one might still have 50-100 on the way down but can hold something close to 50 MPG on the way up with very little loss of MPH.

              While in general altering one's style to maximize electrical use hurts more than it helps, in hilly terrain this technique seems to help more than hurt. The first time I saw over 60 MPG for more than 100 miles was running through the hills cross country from Atlanta through northeast Alabama. Another time was in the hilly backroads of north Arkansas and south Missouri.

              --
              David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
              ============================================================
              Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
            • Tad
              In short, no - no matter how bad your mileage is when you re driving the first few minutes, it s going to be quite a bit worse if you re not moving at all! ...
              Message 6 of 18 , May 17, 2013
                In short, no - no matter how bad your mileage is when you're driving the
                first few minutes, it's going to be quite a bit worse if you're not moving
                at all!


                On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Edward Bonsell <ebonsell@...>wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Hi All,
                >
                > I was wondering since the prius doesn't get good milage the first few
                > minutes while it's warming up. Would it be cost effective to start it up a
                > few minutes early and let it warm up before starting to drive it?
                >
                > Ed
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Kelly
                ... Experiment. I remember one or two hear claiming improved MPG for letting their Prius warm up a minute, until the ICE shut off, before driving away. I
                Message 7 of 18 , May 17, 2013
                  On May 17, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Edward Bonsell <ebonsell@...> wrote:

                  > I was wondering since the prius doesn't get good milage the first few minutes while it's warming up. Would it be cost effective to start it up a few minutes early and let it warm up before starting to drive it?

                  Experiment. I remember one or two hear claiming improved MPG for letting their Prius warm up a minute, until the ICE shut off, before driving away. I wasn't convinced by their methodology of demonstrating the results. Think there likely is a quirk in the software of the MFD.

                  When engine is warming up you are getting 0 MPG. How can that help?

                  OTOH Bob Wilson has performed robust studies using block heaters to preheat. In a nutshell his conclusion was that its cost effective below 50°F.

                  http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/ and in particular:
                  http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_warmup.html

                  --
                  David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                  ============================================================
                  Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                • Peter Blackford
                  NO - you d only waste more fuel, at 0 mpg ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 17, 2013
                    NO - you'd only waste more fuel, at 0 mpg

                    On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Edward Bonsell <ebonsell@...>wrote:

                    > **
                    > Hi All,
                    >
                    > I was wondering since the prius doesn't get good milage the first few
                    > minutes while it's warming up. Would it be cost effective to start it up a
                    > few minutes early and let it warm up before starting to drive it?
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Burt Trattner
                    Driving it immediately puts the engine under greater load and warms up faster. Also, during the warmup you are covering a distance traveled with the gas,
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 17, 2013
                      Driving it immediately puts the engine under greater load and warms up
                      faster.
                      Also, during the warmup you are covering a distance traveled with the
                      gas, rather than sit idle in the garage.

                      burt 2011


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Kelly
                      ... Only if you immediately floor it and drive like a bat out of heck. ... I suspect the first minute runs mostly off the traction battery. My ICE doesn t seem
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 17, 2013
                        On May 17, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Burt Trattner <btrattner@...> wrote:

                        > Driving it immediately puts the engine under greater load and warms up
                        > faster.

                        Only if you immediately floor it and drive like a bat out of heck.

                        > Also, during the warmup you are covering a distance traveled with the
                        > gas, rather than sit idle in the garage.

                        I suspect the first minute runs mostly off the traction battery. My ICE doesn't seem to rev until after I am out of the neighborhood. Then again I'm moving slowly anyway until I hit the 45 MPH road.

                        --
                        David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                        ============================================================
                        Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                      • Burt Trattner
                        I cant agree David. Moderate driving before the warm up would be gas only(no battery). No need to drive hard for a warm up faster than sitting at idle. Burt.
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 17, 2013
                          I cant agree David.

                          Moderate driving before the warm up would be gas only(no battery). No
                          need to drive hard for a warm up faster than sitting at idle.

                          Burt.


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • David Kelly
                          ... Don t follow your sentence structure. Prius ICE is not at full operating efficiency for 10 minutes after start. If driven moderately the first minute the
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 18, 2013
                            On May 17, 2013, at 10:07 PM, Burt Trattner <btrattner@...> wrote:

                            > I cant agree David.
                            >
                            > Moderate driving before the warm up would be gas only(no battery). No
                            > need to drive hard for a warm up faster than sitting at idle.

                            Don't follow your sentence structure.

                            Prius ICE is not at full operating efficiency for 10 minutes after start. If driven moderately the first minute the ICE does not rev. I say that means the vehicle is primarily using electric. If you stomp the accelerator the ICE will step in and contribute.

                            At low speeds a Prius is effectively a series hybrid. ICE drives generator drives motor drives wheels. Only at higher speeds does significant power flow through the PSD gears.

                            --
                            David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                            ============================================================
                            Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                          • Burt Trattner
                            My drive way is at the base of 2 block long hill. 7 seconds after I back out (cold start) the ice starts. Watching the mpg gauge with throttle at moderate, I
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 18, 2013
                              My drive way is at the base of 2 block long hill. 7 seconds after I back
                              out (cold start) the ice starts. Watching the mpg gauge with throttle at
                              moderate, I accelerate to about 25 MPH upgrade.
                              The mpg gauge shows about 20 mpg. The electric drive I assume, wont
                              kick in be cause the coolant is too cold. I believe I am going up the
                              hill with ice only. When warmed up on flat road I can get the electric
                              only by keeping the throttle less than half way up the progress scalke.
                              That way the ICE is off until I either go faster or the traction abttery
                              is getting low.

                              I will change the display (moving arrows) mode next time I go up my hill
                              with a cold start. I will look so see if battery is trying to push too.

                              I thought battery would not help push until the cat is warmed up.

                              Burt
                              On 5/18/2013 9:40 AM, David Kelly wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > On May 17, 2013, at 10:07 PM, Burt Trattner <btrattner@...
                              > <mailto:btrattner%40earthlink.net>> wrote:
                              >
                              > > I cant agree David.
                              > >
                              > > Moderate driving before the warm up would be gas only(no battery). No
                              > > need to drive hard for a warm up faster than sitting at idle.
                              >
                              > Don't follow your sentence structure.
                              >
                              > Prius ICE is not at full operating efficiency for 10 minutes after
                              > start. If driven moderately the first minute the ICE does not rev. I
                              > say that means the vehicle is primarily using electric. If you stomp
                              > the accelerator the ICE will step in and contribute.
                              >
                              > At low speeds a Prius is effectively a series hybrid. ICE drives
                              > generator drives motor drives wheels. Only at higher speeds does
                              > significant power flow through the PSD gears.
                              >
                              > --
                              > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@... <mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net>
                              > ============================================================
                              > Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Edward Bonsell
                              Thank you for the response about starting the engine early. How about this one. If you are going to be sitting at a light for a while, sitting there for some
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 20, 2013
                                Thank you for the response about starting the engine early. How about this one.
                                If you are going to be sitting at a light for a while, sitting there for some time with your foot on the brake and the brake lights on uses a lot of electricity. What about putting it in park with no brake lights on and putting it in drive when you're ready to go? Will it save battery power? I imagine the switch will wear out faster.

                                Ed
                              • Peter Blackford
                                Brake lights use much less than headlights, so not a huge deal anyway; also most new cars now use LED brake lights (and you can change yours if not already
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 20, 2013
                                  Brake lights use much less than headlights, so not a huge deal anyway; also
                                  most new cars now use LED brake lights (and you can change yours if not
                                  already fitted), which draw even less. Foot-on-brake also prevents ICE
                                  from starting unless needed for AC (NHW-11) or to charge a below-min-limit
                                  HV battery.

                                  On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Edward Bonsell <ebonsell@...>wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Thank you for the response about starting the engine early. How about this
                                  > one.
                                  > If you are going to be sitting at a light for a while, sitting there for
                                  > some time with your foot on the brake and the brake lights on uses a lot of
                                  > electricity. What about putting it in park with no brake lights on and
                                  > putting it in drive when you're ready to go? Will it save battery power? I
                                  > imagine the switch will wear out faster.
                                  >
                                  > Ed
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tad
                                  ... How does this differ from no-foot-on-brake? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 20, 2013
                                    >
                                    > Foot-on-brake also prevents ICE
                                    > from starting unless needed for AC (NHW-11) or to charge a below-min-limit
                                    > HV battery.


                                    How does this differ from no-foot-on-brake?


                                    On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Peter Blackford <priuspete@...>wrote:

                                    > Brake lights use much less than headlights, so not a huge deal anyway; also
                                    > most new cars now use LED brake lights (and you can change yours if not
                                    > already fitted), which draw even less. Foot-on-brake also prevents ICE
                                    > from starting unless needed for AC (NHW-11) or to charge a below-min-limit
                                    > HV battery.
                                    >
                                    > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Edward Bonsell <ebonsell@...
                                    > >wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > **
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Thank you for the response about starting the engine early. How about
                                    > this
                                    > > one.
                                    > > If you are going to be sitting at a light for a while, sitting there for
                                    > > some time with your foot on the brake and the brake lights on uses a lot
                                    > of
                                    > > electricity. What about putting it in park with no brake lights on and
                                    > > putting it in drive when you're ready to go? Will it save battery power?
                                    > I
                                    > > imagine the switch will wear out faster.
                                    > >
                                    > > Ed
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
                                    > and Polls, go to
                                    > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                    > , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                    > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Tom M
                                    I use the select PARK approach whenever I am not the first car at the light.  Considering where the PARK button is located and how easy it is to get back into
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 20, 2013
                                      I use the select PARK approach whenever I am not the first car at the light.  Considering where the PARK button is located and how easy it is to get back into DRIVE it's a no-brainer for me.

                                      There is so much technology in the Prius that I'm almost sure that this doesn't have any effect on the PARK "switch" or how the change back to DRIVE may be wearing out a "switch".    While I have no basis for this, I have kind of always assumed that these make use of a Hall-effect device to detect the change.

                                      My main reason for using PARK is that I'm just too lazy to keep my foot on the brake.  Obviously, if I'm #1 in line then I'll use the brake.

                                      Tom

                                       
                                      ----------------------------------------------------------


                                      "...experiments in recent years suggest that the conscious mind is like a monkey riding a tiger of subconscious decisions and actions in progress, frantically making up stories about being in control.” - Dennis Overbye in Science Times


                                      >________________________________
                                      > From: Edward Bonsell <ebonsell@...>
                                      >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:05 AM
                                      >Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: Speaking of Gas Mileage...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      >Thank you for the response about starting the engine early. How about this one.
                                      >If you are going to be sitting at a light for a while, sitting there for some time with your foot on the brake and the brake lights on uses a lot of electricity. What about putting it in park with no brake lights on and putting it in drive when you're ready to go? Will it save battery power? I imagine the switch will wear out faster.
                                      >
                                      >Ed
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • jose montes
                                      Pressing park will engage the electric detent pawl on the transmission. Depending on were you drive doing it multiple times ( traffic jam ) will surely cause
                                      Message 18 of 18 , May 22, 2013
                                        Pressing park will engage the electric detent pawl on the transmission. Depending on
                                        were you drive doing it multiple times ( traffic jam ) will surely cause wear and tear.
                                         
                                         

                                        --- On Mon, 5/20/13, Tom M <ca_sideliner@...> wrote:


                                        From: Tom M <ca_sideliner@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Re: Speaking of Gas Mileage...
                                        To: "Edward Bonsell" <ebonsell@...>, "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Monday, May 20, 2013, 4:48 PM



                                         



                                        I use the select PARK approach whenever I am not the first car at the light.  Considering where the PARK button is located and how easy it is to get back into DRIVE it's a no-brainer for me.

                                        There is so much technology in the Prius that I'm almost sure that this doesn't have any effect on the PARK "switch" or how the change back to DRIVE may be wearing out a "switch".    While I have no basis for this, I have kind of always assumed that these make use of a Hall-effect device to detect the change.

                                        My main reason for using PARK is that I'm just too lazy to keep my foot on the brake.  Obviously, if I'm #1 in line then I'll use the brake.

                                        Tom

                                         
                                        ----------------------------------------------------------

                                        "...experiments in recent years suggest that the conscious mind is like a monkey riding a tiger of subconscious decisions and actions in progress, frantically making up stories about being in control.” - Dennis Overbye in Science Times

                                        >________________________________
                                        > From: Edward Bonsell <ebonsell@...>
                                        >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:05 AM
                                        >Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: Speaking of Gas Mileage...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        >Thank you for the response about starting the engine early. How about this one.
                                        >If you are going to be sitting at a light for a while, sitting there for some time with your foot on the brake and the brake lights on uses a lot of electricity. What about putting it in park with no brake lights on and putting it in drive when you're ready to go? Will it save battery power? I imagine the switch will wear out faster.
                                        >
                                        >Ed
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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