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Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation

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  • dkelly3272002
    I have a 2003 Prius with 106K miles on it. I have had it for about one year. I use a simple app called Gas Cubby to track MPG and to keep track of any service
    Message 1 of 28 , May 5, 2013
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      I have a 2003 Prius with 106K miles on it. I have had it for about one year. I use a simple app called Gas Cubby to track MPG and to keep track of any service I have done on the car. I have noticed that whenever I refill my tank after only using 3-5 gallons (since the previous fill-up), I average 55+mpg (on the miles since the previous fill-up obviously). My normal rate is closer to 38-40 mpg. Has anyone else experienced this? I always double check to be certain that the tank is full, so that is not the reason. I am wondering what might be the reason for this. It is making me think I should always try to refill my tank when it is half empty or less. Any ideas?

      Dan
    • David Kelly
      ... But that is the reason. A Prius bladder tank is harder to fill the same time after time. If you were to consistently purchase fuel at 3-5 gallons then on
      Message 2 of 28 , May 5, 2013
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        On May 5, 2013, at 3:28 PM, dkelly3272002 <dkelly327@...> wrote:

        > I have a 2003 Prius with 106K miles on it. I have had it for about one year. I use a simple app called Gas Cubby to track MPG and to keep track of any service I have done on the car. I have noticed that whenever I refill my tank after only using 3-5 gallons (since the previous fill-up), I average 55+mpg (on the miles since the previous fill-up obviously). My normal rate is closer to 38-40 mpg. Has anyone else experienced this? I always double check to be certain that the tank is full, so that is not the reason.

        But that is the reason. A Prius bladder tank is harder to fill the same time after time. If you were to consistently purchase fuel at 3-5 gallons then on the 2nd tank MPG would be back to normal.

        For most consistent fill levels use the slowest fill rate on the pump. The bladder takes time to expand. Even so it is not abnormal for one fill to the next to be off by as much as a gallon, which is exactly what you are seeing. 150 miles at 55 MPG is 2.7 gallons, or at 40 MPG its 3.7 gallons.

        Once when my Prius was new I thought to put fuel in it at 80 miles. Could barely force a a gallon in the tank. Know good and well I wasn't getting 80+ MPG.

        Sometimes after the nozzle cuts off if I remove the nozzle and reinsert the tank holds another 1.5 to 2 gallons. When this happens the tank MPG is 40 or less. But the next tank will be 60+ MPG. Am guessing a pleat pops out in the bladder making room for more fuel.

        > I am wondering what might be the reason for this. It is making me think I should always try to refill my tank when it is half empty or less. Any ideas?

        Fill it whenever its convenient. MPG isn't really varying, only your ability to measure.

        --
        David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
        ============================================================
        Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
      • raylabii
        I believe that the ECU monitors the flow of fuel going to the injectors to calculate the mileage. The # of gallons in the tank have no bearing on this, so
        Message 3 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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          I believe that the ECU monitors the flow of fuel going to the injectors to calculate the mileage. The # of gallons in the tank have no bearing on this, so bladder or no bladder, full tank or partial does not matter...

          Ray L.

          --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, David Kelly <dkelly@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > On May 5, 2013, at 3:28 PM, dkelly3272002 <dkelly327@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I have a 2003 Prius with 106K miles on it. I have had it for about one year. I use a simple app called Gas Cubby to track MPG and to keep track of any service I have done on the car. I have noticed that whenever I refill my tank after only using 3-5 gallons (since the previous fill-up), I average 55+mpg (on the miles since the previous fill-up obviously). My normal rate is closer to 38-40 mpg. Has anyone else experienced this? I always double check to be certain that the tank is full, so that is not the reason.
          >
          > But that is the reason. A Prius bladder tank is harder to fill the same time after time. If you were to consistently purchase fuel at 3-5 gallons then on the 2nd tank MPG would be back to normal.
          >
          > For most consistent fill levels use the slowest fill rate on the pump. The bladder takes time to expand. Even so it is not abnormal for one fill to the next to be off by as much as a gallon, which is exactly what you are seeing. 150 miles at 55 MPG is 2.7 gallons, or at 40 MPG its 3.7 gallons.
          >
          > Once when my Prius was new I thought to put fuel in it at 80 miles. Could barely force a a gallon in the tank. Know good and well I wasn't getting 80+ MPG.
          >
          > Sometimes after the nozzle cuts off if I remove the nozzle and reinsert the tank holds another 1.5 to 2 gallons. When this happens the tank MPG is 40 or less. But the next tank will be 60+ MPG. Am guessing a pleat pops out in the bladder making room for more fuel.
          >
          > > I am wondering what might be the reason for this. It is making me think I should always try to refill my tank when it is half empty or less. Any ideas?
          >
          > Fill it whenever its convenient. MPG isn't really varying, only your ability to measure.
          >
          > --
          > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
          > ============================================================
          > Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
          >
        • David Kelly
          ... Yes, but the question was MPG, not the value displayed on the Fool Computer. It sounds a bit silly but I agree with the O.P. s observation that the emptier
          Message 4 of 28 , May 6, 2013
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            On May 6, 2013, at 11:39 AM, raylabii <raylabsforums@...> wrote:

            > I believe that the ECU monitors the flow of fuel going to the injectors to calculate the mileage. The # of gallons in the tank have no bearing on this, so bladder or no bladder, full tank or partial does not matter...

            Yes, but the question was MPG, not the value displayed on the Fool Computer.

            It sounds a bit silly but I agree with the O.P.'s observation that the emptier a Prius bladder tank the more fuel it will hold. Consistently take 8 gallons out and it will accept 8 gallons. Then take 3 gallons out and it will be difficult to put much more than 2 gallons back in. Take 3 gallons out again and I believe it will take 3 gallons to refill, but draw 8 out and I suspect it will take 9 to fill. The emptier it is to start the fuller it gets.

            --
            David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
            ============================================================
            Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
          • dkelly3272002
            Thank you both for your responses. The explanation of the bladder having some variability in what it will accept makes sense to me. There is no good reason for
            Message 5 of 28 , May 10, 2013
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              Thank you both for your responses. The explanation of the bladder having some variability in what it will accept makes sense to me. There is no good reason for me to be getting such a significant change in fuel economy. So the bladder is where the variability must be.
              Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in, I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?

              Dan

              --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, David Kelly <dkelly@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > On May 6, 2013, at 11:39 AM, raylabii <raylabsforums@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I believe that the ECU monitors the flow of fuel going to the injectors to calculate the mileage. The # of gallons in the tank have no bearing on this, so bladder or no bladder, full tank or partial does not matter...
              >
              > Yes, but the question was MPG, not the value displayed on the Fool Computer.
              >
              > It sounds a bit silly but I agree with the O.P.'s observation that the emptier a Prius bladder tank the more fuel it will hold. Consistently take 8 gallons out and it will accept 8 gallons. Then take 3 gallons out and it will be difficult to put much more than 2 gallons back in. Take 3 gallons out again and I believe it will take 3 gallons to refill, but draw 8 out and I suspect it will take 9 to fill. The emptier it is to start the fuller it gets.
              >
              > --
              > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
              > ============================================================
              > Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
              >
            • David Kelly
              ... Probably . A couple of times something like that has happened. I was distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank is
              Message 6 of 28 , May 10, 2013
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                On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <dkelly327@...> wrote:

                > Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in, I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?

                "Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.

                Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual level because previously it got more than usual.

                I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.

                Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.

                As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off. Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds then manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch. Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in Prius.

                $64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months.

                The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in aggregate.

                Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG. You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals:

                100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                Add them up:
                460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG

                --
                David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                ============================================================
                Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
              • Tad
                yet another reason to use biodiesel... doesn t foam. :) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 28 , May 10, 2013
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                  yet another reason to use biodiesel... doesn't foam. :)


                  On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 2:23 PM, David Kelly <dkelly@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <dkelly327@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I know
                  > it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in, I
                  > should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?
                  >
                  > "Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was
                  > distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank
                  > is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons
                  > which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and
                  > it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on
                  > the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.
                  >
                  > Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual
                  > level because previously it got more than usual.
                  >
                  > I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.
                  >
                  > Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles
                  > since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.
                  >
                  > As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel
                  > vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several
                  > gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off.
                  > Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only
                  > pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds then
                  > manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch.
                  > Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in
                  > Prius.
                  >
                  > $64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months.
                  >
                  > The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret
                  > about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in
                  > aggregate.
                  >
                  > Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG.
                  > You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals:
                  >
                  > 100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                  > 360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                  > average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                  > Add them up:
                  > 460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                  > ============================================================
                  > Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David Kelly
                  ... Its also not real diesel. EPA has demanded extraordinary measures to smog a diesel. Its essentially impossible to meet current EPA emission tiers without
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 10, 2013
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                    On May 10, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Tad <tadc@...> wrote:

                    > yet another reason to use biodiesel... doesn't foam. :)

                    Its also not real diesel. EPA has demanded extraordinary measures to smog a diesel. Its essentially impossible to meet current EPA emission tiers without direct injection, turbocharger, active exhaust gas recirculation. The the exhaust system requires a Diesel Oxidizing Catalyst (DOC), Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), and Selective Catalyst Reactor (SCR). And more CPU power than put a man on the moon.

                    The SCR requires urea injection in the exhaust. I have a 7 gallon Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF, aka AdBlue) tank where the gasoline model stores a spare tire. Part of the SCR includes a NOx sensor which I learned last year costs $570 but for warranty picking up my bill.

                    The DPF is a soot filter, a cigarette butt if you will. Does an amazing job of catching soot but it has to be burned clean periodically consuming more diesel. Mercedes-Benz did a far better job of this than Ford. Am not sure I have ever experienced a DPF cleaning cycle in the 2009 M-B, but when the 2008 6.4L Ford did one you most certainly knew it if only by 8 MPG the next 10 minutes.

                    All the above makes the system more sensitive to having exactly the one fuel. Not unlike the Prius spitting problem codes on 93 octane or E85. The Prius tuning made it more sensitive to fuel. Most diesels starting in 2007 only allow 5% biodiesel. The new 6.7L Fords were among the first to permit B20.

                    Get something without a delicate 30,000 PSI direct injection rail and you can run all the biodiesel you wish. I know people who run their older trucks off used ATF and motor oil. We've all heard of the grease burners, which is pretty much the same thing.

                    --
                    David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                    ============================================================
                    Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                  • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                    One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come into the house, but we re beginning to fear it might ve slid off a table into a trash
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 20, 2013
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                      One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come into the house, but we're beginning to fear it might've slid off a table into a trash can or some such mishap....
                       
                      Before we got to the dealer with $600 in hand, it occurs to me to ask the Pruis Chat group if any of youall happen to have a spare key; maybe you lost one, bought another, then found the lost one. Or maybe your Prius was wrecked but you kept a key for old time's sake.
                       
                      Anyone have any good ideas? or is there no alternative to the dealer?

                       
                       
                      David and Jodi
                      N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                      W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                       


                      >________________________________
                      > From: David Kelly <dkelly@...>
                      >To: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:23 PM
                      >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation
                      >

                      >
                      >
                      >On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <mailto:dkelly327%40hotmail.com> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in, I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?
                      >
                      >"Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.
                      >
                      >Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual level because previously it got more than usual.
                      >
                      >I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.
                      >
                      >Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.
                      >
                      >As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off. Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds then manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch. Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in Prius.
                      >
                      >$64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months.
                      >
                      >The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in aggregate.
                      >
                      >Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG. You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals:
                      >
                      >100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                      >360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                      >average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                      >Add them up:
                      >460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG
                      >
                      >--
                      >David Kelly N4HHE, mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net
                      >============================================================
                      >Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Peter Blackford
                      First things first .. if this is like the NHW11 (well, group, is it?) then the only key you should never lose is the black one. Gray can be duplicated and
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 20, 2013
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                        First things first .. if this is like the NHW11 (well, group, is it?) then
                        the only key you should never lose is the black one. Gray can be
                        duplicated and programmed (ok, the car can be programmed to recognize them
                        if you do the dance correctly). Not $2, but not 600 either.
                        So, what key(s) DO you have ?
                        Pete

                        On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:49 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                        davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come
                        > into the house, but we're beginning to fear it might've slid off a table
                        > into a trash can or some such mishap....
                        >
                        > Before we got to the dealer with $600 in hand, it occurs to me to ask the
                        > Pruis Chat group if any of youall happen to have a spare key; maybe you
                        > lost one, bought another, then found the lost one. Or maybe your Prius was
                        > wrecked but you kept a key for old time's sake.
                        >
                        > Anyone have any good ideas? or is there no alternative to the dealer?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > David and Jodi
                        > N 31� 04� 01.6� (31.06710N)
                        > W 97� 23� 00.9� (97.38357W)
                        >
                        >
                        > >________________________________
                        > > From: David Kelly <dkelly@...>
                        > >To: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                        > >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:23 PM
                        > >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <mailto:
                        > dkelly327%40hotmail.com> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >> Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I
                        > know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in,
                        > I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?
                        > >
                        > >"Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was
                        > distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank
                        > is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons
                        > which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and
                        > it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on
                        > the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.
                        > >
                        > >Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual
                        > level because previously it got more than usual.
                        > >
                        > >I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.
                        > >
                        > >Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles
                        > since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.
                        > >
                        > >As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel
                        > vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several
                        > gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off.
                        > Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only
                        > pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds then
                        > manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch.
                        > Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in
                        > Prius.
                        > >
                        > >$64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months.
                        > >
                        > >The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret
                        > about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in
                        > aggregate.
                        > >
                        > >Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG.
                        > You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals:
                        > >
                        > >100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                        > >360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                        > >average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                        > >Add them up:
                        > >460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG
                        > >
                        > >--
                        > >David Kelly N4HHE, mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net
                        > >============================================================
                        > >Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Doany
                        you can find prius keys for sale on ebay [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 20, 2013
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                          you can find prius keys for sale on ebay


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                          I m not sure about the NHW 11.... but losing a Prius key is not a dime-store deal!   Couple years back I bought a second-hand TCH (50th Anniv Edition) which
                          Message 12 of 28 , May 20, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I'm not sure about the NHW 11.... but losing a Prius key is not a dime-store deal!
                             
                            Couple years back I bought a second-hand TCH (50th Anniv Edition) which came to us with just one key. Obviously we did not wish to try to use a car with only one key!
                            As I recall the pricing 29 months later: Dealership retails that key for $315 (we 'stole' one for 232.20), the special emergency door key for another hundred. Programming the main key to the car was $100 (we got a brother-in-law deal on that for nothing--except driving a 70-mile round-trip to another dealership), lazer-cutting the special door key another $100 (Pop a Lock did that for $50 if we went to their place... We managed a short-cut or two but this is no $35 deal!


                             
                             David and Jodi
                            N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                            W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                             


                            >________________________________
                            > From: Peter Blackford <priuspete@...>
                            >To: JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...>
                            >Cc: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                            >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:56 PM
                            >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                            >
                            >
                            >First things first ..  if this is like the NHW11 (well, group, is it?) then
                            >the only key you should never lose is the black one.  Gray can be
                            >duplicated and programmed (ok, the car can be programmed to recognize them
                            >if you do the dance correctly).  Not $2, but not 600 either.
                            >So, what key(s) DO you have ?
                            >Pete
                            >
                            >On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:49 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                            >davidandjodi@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> **
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come
                            >> into the house, but we're beginning to fear it might've slid off a table
                            >> into a trash can or some such mishap....
                            >>
                            >> Before we got to the dealer with $600 in hand, it occurs to me to ask the
                            >> Pruis Chat group if any of youall happen to have a spare key; maybe you
                            >> lost one, bought another, then found the lost one. Or maybe your Prius was
                            >> wrecked but you kept a key for old time's sake.
                            >>
                            >> Anyone have any good ideas? or is there no alternative to the dealer?
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> David and Jodi
                            >> N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                            >> W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> >________________________________
                            >> > From: David Kelly <dkelly@...>
                            >> >To: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                            >> >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:23 PM
                            >> >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <mailto:
                            >> dkelly327%40hotmail.com> wrote:
                            >> >
                            >> >> Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I
                            >> know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in,
                            >> I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?
                            >> >
                            >> >"Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was
                            >> distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank
                            >> is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons
                            >> which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and
                            >> it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on
                            >> the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.
                            >> >
                            >> >Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual
                            >> level because previously it got more than usual.
                            >> >
                            >> >I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.
                            >> >
                            >> >Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles
                            >> since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.
                            >> >
                            >> >As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel
                            >> vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several
                            >> gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off.
                            >> Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only
                            >> pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds then
                            >> manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch.
                            >> Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in
                            >> Prius.
                            >> >
                            >> >$64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months.
                            >> >
                            >> >The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret
                            >> about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in
                            >> aggregate.
                            >> >
                            >> >Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG.
                            >> You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals:
                            >> >
                            >> >100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                            >> >360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                            >> >average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                            >> >Add them up:
                            >> >460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG
                            >> >
                            >> >--
                            >> >David Kelly N4HHE, mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net
                            >> >============================================================
                            >> >Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >> 
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >------------------------------------
                            >
                            >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                            >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                            >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                            >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Levi Smith
                            If you have a Smart Key and you want to keep that functionality then you pretty much need to go to the dealer unless you can find a VERY intelligent
                            Message 13 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              If you have a Smart Key and you want to keep that functionality then you
                              pretty much need to go to the dealer unless you can find a VERY intelligent
                              aftermarket key person(they do exist, but I think I've only heard of one
                              with the smarts and equipment).

                              That said, IIRC, I bought my key for around $215 and had it programmed for
                              more like $45. So if your dealer is charging $600, I'd highly advise
                              shopping around!

                              Levi


                              On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:49 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                              davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come
                              > into the house, but we're beginning to fear it might've slid off a table
                              > into a trash can or some such mishap....
                              >
                              > Before we got to the dealer with $600 in hand, it occurs to me to ask the
                              > Pruis Chat group if any of youall happen to have a spare key; maybe you
                              > lost one, bought another, then found the lost one. Or maybe your Prius was
                              > wrecked but you kept a key for old time's sake.
                              >
                              > Anyone have any good ideas? or is there no alternative to the dealer?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > David and Jodi
                              > N 31� 04� 01.6� (31.06710N)
                              > W 97� 23� 00.9� (97.38357W)
                              >
                              >
                              > >________________________________
                              > > From: David Kelly <dkelly@...>
                              > >To: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                              > >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:23 PM
                              > >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <mailto:
                              > dkelly327%40hotmail.com> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >> Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I
                              > know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in,
                              > I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?
                              > >
                              > >"Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was
                              > distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank
                              > is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons
                              > which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and
                              > it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on
                              > the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.
                              > >
                              > >Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual
                              > level because previously it got more than usual.
                              > >
                              > >I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.
                              > >
                              > >Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles
                              > since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.
                              > >
                              > >As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel
                              > vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several
                              > gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off.
                              > Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only
                              > pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds then
                              > manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch.
                              > Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in
                              > Prius.
                              > >
                              > >$64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months.
                              > >
                              > >The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret
                              > about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in
                              > aggregate.
                              > >
                              > >Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG.
                              > You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals:
                              > >
                              > >100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                              > >360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                              > >average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                              > >Add them up:
                              > >460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG
                              > >
                              > >--
                              > >David Kelly N4HHE, mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net
                              > >============================================================
                              > >Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Levi Smith
                              Yes, but again, if you have a Smart Key and you want to keep it, you ll need to make sure you have a brand new key unless you have stumbled upon one of the
                              Message 14 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yes, but again, if you have a Smart Key and you want to keep it, you'll
                                need to make sure you have a brand new key unless you have stumbled upon
                                one of the VERY smart people out there. Again, I've only ever heard of
                                one. And I believe even then, the cost of making a used key work for Smart
                                key was about as expensive as a new one...


                                On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Doany <doany02@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > you can find prius keys for sale on ebay
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Levi Smith
                                The NHW11 s can be done for cheap if you still have the master. The 2004+ are a whole nother issue if you have Smart Key. I forgot about the laser cut part.
                                Message 15 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  The NHW11's can be done for cheap if you still have the master. The 2004+
                                  are a whole nother issue if you have Smart Key. I forgot about the laser
                                  cut part. I think that's 2006+ years...


                                  On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:07 AM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                  davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure about the NHW 11.... but losing a Prius key is not a
                                  > dime-store deal!
                                  >
                                  > Couple years back I bought a second-hand TCH (50th Anniv Edition) which
                                  > came to us with just one key. Obviously we did not wish to try to use a car
                                  > with only one key!
                                  > As I recall the pricing 29 months later: Dealership retails that key for
                                  > $315 (we 'stole' one for 232.20), the special emergency door key for
                                  > another hundred. Programming the main key to the car was $100 (we got a
                                  > brother-in-law deal on that for nothing--except driving a 70-mile
                                  > round-trip to another dealership), lazer-cutting the special door key
                                  > another $100 (Pop a Lock did that for $50 if we went to their place... We
                                  > managed a short-cut or two but this is no $35 deal!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > David and Jodi
                                  > N 31� 04� 01.6� (31.06710N)
                                  > W 97� 23� 00.9� (97.38357W)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >________________________________
                                  > > From: Peter Blackford <priuspete@...>
                                  > >To: JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...>
                                  > >Cc: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:56 PM
                                  > >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >First things first .. if this is like the NHW11 (well, group, is it?)
                                  > then
                                  > >the only key you should never lose is the black one. Gray can be
                                  > >duplicated and programmed (ok, the car can be programmed to recognize them
                                  > >if you do the dance correctly). Not $2, but not 600 either.
                                  > >So, what key(s) DO you have ?
                                  > >Pete
                                  > >
                                  > >On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:49 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                  > >davidandjodi@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >> **
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come
                                  > >> into the house, but we're beginning to fear it might've slid off a table
                                  > >> into a trash can or some such mishap....
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Before we got to the dealer with $600 in hand, it occurs to me to ask
                                  > the
                                  > >> Pruis Chat group if any of youall happen to have a spare key; maybe you
                                  > >> lost one, bought another, then found the lost one. Or maybe your Prius
                                  > was
                                  > >> wrecked but you kept a key for old time's sake.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Anyone have any good ideas? or is there no alternative to the dealer?
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> David and Jodi
                                  > >> N 31� 04� 01.6� (31.06710N)
                                  > >> W 97� 23� 00.9� (97.38357W)
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> >________________________________
                                  > >> > From: David Kelly <dkelly@...>
                                  > >> >To: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > >> >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:23 PM
                                  > >> >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <mailto:
                                  > >> dkelly327%40hotmail.com> wrote:
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >> Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I
                                  > >> know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more
                                  > in,
                                  > >> I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >"Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was
                                  > >> distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the
                                  > tank
                                  > >> is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons
                                  > >> which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart
                                  > and
                                  > >> it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing
                                  > on
                                  > >> the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the
                                  > usual
                                  > >> level because previously it got more than usual.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles
                                  > >> since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel
                                  > >> vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off
                                  > several
                                  > >> gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off.
                                  > >> Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I
                                  > only
                                  > >> pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds
                                  > then
                                  > >> manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch.
                                  > >> Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in
                                  > >> Prius.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >$64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2
                                  > months.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or
                                  > fret
                                  > >> about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in
                                  > >> aggregate.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG.
                                  > >> You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those
                                  > totals:
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                                  > >> >360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                                  > >> >average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                                  > >> >Add them up:
                                  > >> >460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >--
                                  > >> >David Kelly N4HHE, mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net
                                  > >> >============================================================
                                  > >> >Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
                                  > and Polls, go to
                                  > >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                  > >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                  > >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                                   Our used 2007 TCH came with one original(?) working key, and a used Smart key but dealer s test showed it had failed. It did come with the emergency door
                                  Message 16 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                     Our used 2007 TCH came with one original(?) working key, and a used "Smart" key but dealer's test showed it had failed. It did come with the "emergency door key"; which was uncut! so I did not have to buy that!

                                    A new "smart" key retails for about 315 (wholesales for (what'd I say before) 230.... I think 'programming' a used key is no cheaper than programming the brand new one--programming is not included in that 315....

                                    But I might explore eBay.... At this moment, I keep hoping the "lost" one will reappear, but hopes are dying. We know for a certainty it came home (the care would not've run without it.... but it has not come out of hiding... 
                                     
                                     David and Jodi
                                    N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                                    W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                                     


                                    >________________________________
                                    > From: Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...>
                                    >To: Doany <doany02@...>
                                    >Cc: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:11 AM
                                    >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Yes, but again, if you have a Smart Key and you want to keep it, you'll
                                    >need to make sure you have a brand new key unless you have stumbled upon
                                    >one of the VERY smart people out there.  Again, I've only ever heard of
                                    >one.  And I believe even then, the cost of making a used key work for Smart
                                    >key was about as expensive as a new one...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Doany <doany02@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> **
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> you can find prius keys for sale on ebay
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>
                                    >> 
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                    >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                    >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                    >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                                    I m not clear what a NHW11 key is. Our 2007 Prius is a Touring with all possible factory options .   [Actually the mechanical (door) key for Prius is fairly
                                    Message 17 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I'm not clear what a NHW11 key is. Our 2007 Prius is a Touring with all possible factory options .
                                       
                                      [Actually the mechanical (door) key for Prius is fairly convention double-cut. the TCH is the internal lazer cut style....

                                       
                                       David and Jodi
                                      N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                                      W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                                       


                                      >________________________________
                                      > From: Levi Smith <levigsmith@...>
                                      >To: JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...>
                                      >Cc: Peter Blackford <priuspete@...>; Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:13 AM
                                      >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                                      >
                                      >The NHW11's can be done for cheap if you still have the master.  The 2004+ are a whole nother issue if you have Smart Key.  I forgot about the laser cut part.  I think that's 2006+ years...
                                      >On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:07 AM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> 
                                      >>I'm not sure about the NHW 11.... but losing a Prius key is not a dime-store deal!
                                      >> 
                                      >>Couple years back I bought a second-hand TCH (50th Anniv Edition) which came to us with just one key. Obviously we did not wish to try to use a car with only one key!
                                      >>As I recall the pricing 29 months later: Dealership retails that key for $315 (we 'stole' one for 232.20), the special emergency door key for another hundred. Programming the main key to the car was $100 (we got a brother-in-law deal on that for nothing--except driving a 70-mile round-trip to another dealership), lazer-cutting the special door key another $100 (Pop a Lock did that for $50 if we went to their place... We managed a short-cut or two but this is no $35 deal!
                                      >>    David and Jodi N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N) W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)   >________________________________
                                      > From: Peter Blackford <mailto:priuspete%40gmail.com> >To: JODI & DAVID THOMAS <mailto:davidandjodi%40sbcglobal.net> >Cc: Toyota Prius <mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:56 PM >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                                      >> > > >First things first ..  if this is like the NHW11 (well, group, is it?) then >the only key you should never lose is the black one.  Gray can be >duplicated and programmed (ok, the car can be programmed to recognize them >if you do the dance correctly).  Not $2, but not 600 either. >So, what key(s) DO you have ? >Pete > >On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:49 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS < >mailto:davidandjodi%40sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come >> into the house, but we're beginning to fear it might've slid off a table >> into a trash can or some such mishap.... >> >> Before we got to the dealer with $600 in hand, it occurs to me to ask the >> Pruis Chat group if any of youall happen to have a spare key; maybe you >> lost one, bought another, then found the lost one. Or maybe your Prius was >> wrecked but you kept a key for old time's sake. >> >> Anyone have any good ideas? or is
                                      there no alternative to the dealer? >> >> >> >> David and Jodi >> N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N) >> W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W) >> >> >> >________________________________ >> > From: David Kelly <mailto:dkelly%40hiwaay.net> >> >To: Toyota Prius <mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com> >> >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:23 PM >> >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <mailto: >> dkelly327%40hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I >> know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in, >> I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate? >> > >> >"Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was >> distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank >> is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6
                                      gallons >> which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and >> it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on >> the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG. >> > >> >Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual >> level because previously it got more than usual. >> > >> >I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery. >> > >> >Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles >> since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill. >> > >> >As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel >> vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several >> gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off. >> Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only >> pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds
                                      then >> manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch. >> Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in >> Prius. >> > >> >$64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months. >> > >> >The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret >> about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in >> aggregate. >> > >> >Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG. >> You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals: >> > >> >100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG >> >360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG >> >average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>> >> >Add them up: >> >460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG >> > >> >-- >> >David Kelly N4HHE, mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net >> >============================================================ >> >Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. >> > >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this
                                      message have been removed] >> >>  >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Levi Smith
                                      Well, you know that the key was in/near the car when it was started... You don t know it was there for the drive home... It could have been placed on top of
                                      Message 18 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Well, you know that the key was in/near the car when it was started... You
                                        don't know it was there for the drive home... It could have been placed on
                                        top of the car or otherwise fallen outside the car at some point...


                                        On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:36 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                        davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                                        > Our used 2007 TCH came with one original(?) working key, and a used
                                        > "Smart" key but dealer's test showed it had failed. It did come with the
                                        > "emergency door key"; which was uncut! so I did not have to buy that!
                                        >
                                        > A new "smart" key retails for about 315 (wholesales for (what'd I say
                                        > before) 230.... I think 'programming' a used key is no cheaper than
                                        > programming the brand new one--programming is not included in that 315....
                                        >
                                        > But I might explore eBay.... At this moment, I keep hoping the "lost" one
                                        > will reappear, but hopes are dying. We know for a certainty it came
                                        > home (the care would not've run without it.... but it has not come out of
                                        > hiding...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > David and Jodi
                                        > N 31� 04� 01.6� (31.06710N)
                                        > W 97� 23� 00.9� (97.38357W)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > *From:* Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...>
                                        > *To:* Doany <doany02@...>
                                        > *Cc:* Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:11 AM
                                        >
                                        > *Subject:* Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                                        >
                                        > Yes, but again, if you have a Smart Key and you want to keep it, you'll
                                        > need to make sure you have a brand new key unless you have stumbled upon
                                        > one of the VERY smart people out there. Again, I've only ever heard of
                                        > one. And I believe even then, the cost of making a used key work for Smart
                                        > key was about as expensive as a new one...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Doany <doany02@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > **
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > you can find prius keys for sale on ebay
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
                                        > and Polls, go to
                                        > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                        > , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                        > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                                        SInce our dealer has dealt with us for a number of years, it s possible we might get some compassion on the key pricing. We only bought one of the 3 toyotas
                                        Message 19 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          SInce our dealer has dealt with us for a number of years, it's possible we might get some compassion on the key pricing. We only bought one of the 3 toyotas there, but they've done  most of the servicing for all 3....


                                           
                                           David and Jodi
                                          N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                                          W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                                           


                                          >________________________________
                                          > From: Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...>
                                          >To: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:08 AM
                                          >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >If you have a Smart Key and you want to keep that functionality then you
                                          >pretty much need to go to the dealer unless you can find a VERY intelligent
                                          >aftermarket key person(they do exist, but I think I've only heard of one
                                          >with the smarts and equipment).
                                          >
                                          >That said, IIRC, I bought my key for around $215 and had it programmed for
                                          >more like $45.  So if your dealer is charging $600, I'd highly advise
                                          >shopping around!
                                          >
                                          >Levi
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:49 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                          >davidandjodi@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> **
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> One of our Prius keys has vanished! :( We can account for it having come
                                          >> into the house, but we're beginning to fear it might've slid off a table
                                          >> into a trash can or some such mishap....
                                          >>
                                          >> Before we got to the dealer with $600 in hand, it occurs to me to ask the
                                          >> Pruis Chat group if any of youall happen to have a spare key; maybe you
                                          >> lost one, bought another, then found the lost one. Or maybe your Prius was
                                          >> wrecked but you kept a key for old time's sake.
                                          >>
                                          >> Anyone have any good ideas? or is there no alternative to the dealer?
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> David and Jodi
                                          >> N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                                          >> W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> >________________________________
                                          >> > From: David Kelly <dkelly@...>
                                          >> >To: Toyota Prius <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >> >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:23 PM
                                          >> >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2003 Prius MPG Variation
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >On May 10, 2013, at 12:25 PM, dkelly3272002 <mailto:
                                          >> dkelly327%40hotmail.com> wrote:
                                          >> >
                                          >> >> Based on the rest of your post, if I fill it to "full" (even when I
                                          >> know it should take more), if I wait 20-30 seconds then try to put more in,
                                          >> I should be able to get a more authentic "full?" Is that accurate?
                                          >> >
                                          >> >"Probably". A couple of times something like that has happened. I was
                                          >> distracted or something. Sometimes I even check my motor oil when the tank
                                          >> is filling. But something happened and nozzle clicked at say 4.6 gallons
                                          >> which I thought was a bit early (would have been 65 MPG) so I restart and
                                          >> it goes to 8 gallons which was 38 MPG. All the while 52 MPG is showing on
                                          >> the fool computer so I was expecting 48 to 54 MPG.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >Next tank I really do get 65 MPG or so filling it to apparently the usual
                                          >> level because previously it got more than usual.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >I always fill the Prius with nozzle latched to the slowest delivery.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >Don't think one fills to the same place if it has been only 100 miles
                                          >> since last fill as one gets if it has been 400 miles since last fill.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >As bad as it is trying to fill the Prius the same every time my diesel
                                          >> vehicles are worse. Diesel foams and causes the nozzle to cut off several
                                          >> gallons early. If not pumping for a minute or so the dispenser cuts off.
                                          >> Suspect if I pump 20 gallons I'll have more foam to settle than if I only
                                          >> pump 10 gallons. After the nozzle cuts off I let it settle 30 seconds then
                                          >> manually hold the handle at the slowest delivery, slower than the latch.
                                          >> Seems to produce the most consistent fill. Do similar with gasoline in
                                          >> Prius.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >$64 of diesel this morning. Then again it was the first time in 2 months.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >The whole point of all this is that you have nothing to celebrate or fret
                                          >> about the results of a single tank. Must compare multiple fills in
                                          >> aggregate.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >Also must point out one can not average MPGs to get the average of MPG.
                                          >> You have to total the miles and total the gallons, then divide those totals:
                                          >> >
                                          >> >100 miles 2 gallons = 50 MPG
                                          >> >360 miles 6 gallons = 60 MPG
                                          >> >average 55 MPG <<< WRONG >>>
                                          >> >Add them up:
                                          >> >460 miles 8 gallons = 57.5 MPG
                                          >> >
                                          >> >--
                                          >> >David Kelly N4HHE, mailto:dkelly%40HiWAAY.net
                                          >> >============================================================
                                          >> >Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >>
                                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >>
                                          >> 
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                          >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                          >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                                          >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                                          Tnx! I ll check that out....    David and Jodi N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N) W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)   ... [Non-text portions of this message
                                          Message 20 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Tnx! I'll check that out....


                                             
                                             David and Jodi
                                            N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                                            W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                                             


                                            >________________________________
                                            > From: Doany <doany02@...>
                                            >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                                            >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:35 PM
                                            >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2006 Prius Key
                                            >
                                            >

                                            >
                                            >you can find prius keys for sale on ebay
                                            >
                                            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Larry Finch
                                            On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:41 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                                            Message 21 of 28 , May 21, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:41 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                              davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                                              > I'm not clear what a NHW11 key is. Our 2007 Prius is a Touring with all
                                              > possible factory options .
                                              >
                                              >
                                              NHW11 is the 2001-2003 model. It has no relevance to your car. I don't know
                                              why it was even mentioned.

                                              best regards,
                                              Larry

                                              --
                                              Larry Finch

                                              N 40° 53' 47"
                                              W 74° 03' 56"


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • David Kelly
                                              ... Had to special order it and took from perhaps a Thursday to a Monday or Tuesday to arrive but Mercedes-Benz cut a new mechanical key for my Smart Key (they
                                              Message 22 of 28 , May 22, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                On May 21, 2013, at 12:07 AM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                                                > lazer-cutting the special door key another $100 (Pop a Lock did that for $50 if we went to their place...

                                                Had to special order it and took from perhaps a Thursday to a Monday or Tuesday to arrive but Mercedes-Benz cut a new mechanical key for my Smart Key (they call it KEYLESS GO, in capitals, and badly need to hire new people for naming things) for under $25. At the dealer.

                                                I believe Mercedes-Benz and Toyota get their smart key systems from the same vendor. Hand in the door handle, and little black button operation is identical. Right down to a sequence of button presses on the key to toggle behavior of driver's door from driver-only to all-doors. The difference is Toyota defaults to driver's door only and Mercedes-Benz defaults to all doors. Oh, and Mercedes-Benz documents the procedure in the owner's manual and Toyota does not.

                                                --
                                                David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                                                ============================================================
                                                Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                                              • ziad alfawadleh
                                                I believe the 2nd gen doesn t need a laser cutter, but the Camry Hybrid and the 3rd gen Prius does need that   Ziad Al-Fawadleh [Non-text portions of this
                                                Message 23 of 28 , May 22, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I believe the 2nd gen doesn't need a laser cutter, but the Camry Hybrid and the 3rd gen Prius does need that
                                                   
                                                  Ziad Al-Fawadleh


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                                                  I mentioned a few days ago the loss of our Prius key and the price of replacement. Some folks pooh-poohed the 600$ price I mentioned.    The attached
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , May 31, 2013
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I mentioned a few days ago the loss of our Prius key and the price of replacement. Some folks pooh-poohed the 600$ price I mentioned. 
                                                     
                                                    The attached clipping is from page 55 of the latest (July) issue of Consumer Reports    

                                                     
                                                     
                                                    David Thomas
                                                    (31.06710N)
                                                    (97.38357W)
                                                     



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Levi Smith
                                                    I think your attachment got stripped. I d say $600 may not be out of line for what a lot of dealers charge, but I d say it s a lot more than I paid. On Fri,
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , May 31, 2013
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I think your attachment got stripped. I'd say $600 may not be out of line
                                                      for what a lot of dealers charge, but I'd say it's a lot more than I paid.


                                                      On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:17 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                                      davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                                                      > **
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I mentioned a few days ago the loss of our Prius key and the price of
                                                      > replacement. Some folks pooh-poohed the 600$ price I mentioned.
                                                      >
                                                      > The attached clipping is from page 55 of the latest (July) issue of
                                                      > Consumer Reports
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > David Thomas
                                                      > (31.06710N)
                                                      > (97.38357W)
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • JODI & DAVID THOMAS
                                                      I see now that Pruis Chat strips non-text attachments!   Here s the text scanned from July Consumer Reports p. 55:  [A Consumer ] reports electronics
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , May 31, 2013
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        I see now that "Pruis Chat" strips non-text attachments!
                                                         
                                                        Here's the text scanned from July Consumer Reports p. 55:
                                                         [A Consumer ] reports electronics engineer
                                                        found that out
                                                        the hard way. While at the beach, he forgot that the key to his Toyota Prius was in his pocket, went
                                                        for a dip in the surf, and never saw the key again. The cost of a replacement: $600.
                                                        Like many new cars, his Prius uses a proximity key that electronically unlocks the car when you touch the door handle and lets
                                                        you start it by pressing a button on
                                                        the dash. But even less sophisticated keys
                                                        don't come cheap.
                                                        Most ignition keys now have a tran
                                                         
                                                        But I sure would like to buy one for something more like what you paid!­
                                                         

                                                         
                                                         
                                                        David and Jodi
                                                        N 31° 04’ 01.6” (31.06710N)
                                                        W 97° 23’ 00.9” (97.38357W)
                                                         


                                                        >________________________________
                                                        > From: Levi Smith <levigsmith@...>
                                                        >To: JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...>
                                                        >Cc: "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 7:45 PM
                                                        >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2007 Prius Key
                                                        >
                                                        >I think your attachment got stripped.  I'd say $600 may not be out of line for what a lot of dealers charge, but I'd say it's a lot more than I paid.
                                                        >On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:17 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >> 
                                                        >>I mentioned a few days ago the loss of our Prius key and the price of replacement. Some folks pooh-poohed the 600$ price I mentioned. 
                                                        >> 
                                                        >>The attached clipping is from page 55 of the latest (July) issue of Consumer Reports    
                                                        >>
                                                        >> 
                                                        >> 
                                                        >>David Thomas
                                                        >>(31.06710N)
                                                        >>(97.38357W)
                                                        >> 
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Levi Smith
                                                        I paid about $200 for a new key. I see at least one on Ebay for $162 at the moment. Dealer charged me about $50 for programming. But that s for a good dealer.
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jun 1, 2013
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          I paid about $200 for a new key. I see at least one on Ebay for $162 at
                                                          the moment.

                                                          Dealer charged me about $50 for programming.

                                                          But that's for a good dealer. I called around to about 10 of the closest
                                                          dealers and they were the ONLY ones that gave me a good feeling about
                                                          answering the phone, knowing what they were talking about and offering
                                                          reasonable pricing. (though it was still cheaper to buy the key online and
                                                          take it to them). Just make sure if you buy the key elsewhere it's brand
                                                          new and the dealership knows what's going on.


                                                          On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:14 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                                          davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                                                          > I see now that "Pruis Chat" strips non-text attachments!
                                                          >
                                                          > Here's the text scanned from July *Consumer Reports* p. 55:
                                                          >
                                                          > [A Consumer ] reports electronics engineer found that out the hard way.
                                                          > While at the beach, he forgot that the key to his Toyota Prius was in his
                                                          > pocket, went for a dip in the surf, and never saw the key again. The cost
                                                          > of a replacement: $600.
                                                          > Like many new cars, his Prius uses a proximity key that electronically
                                                          > unlocks the car when you touch the door handle and lets you start it by
                                                          > pressing a button on the dash. But even less sophisticated keys don't
                                                          > come cheap.
                                                          > Most ignition keys now have a tran
                                                          >
                                                          > *But I sure would like to buy one for something more like what you paid!*�
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > David and Jodi
                                                          > N 31� 04� 01.6� (31.06710N)
                                                          > W 97� 23� 00.9� (97.38357W)
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > *From:* Levi Smith <levigsmith@...>
                                                          >
                                                          > *To:* JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...>
                                                          > *Cc:* "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 7:45 PM
                                                          > *Subject:* Re: [toyota-prius] Question about 2007 Prius Key
                                                          > **
                                                          > I think your attachment got stripped. I'd say $600 may not be out of line
                                                          > for what a lot of dealers charge, but I'd say it's a lot more than I paid.
                                                          > ****
                                                          > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:17 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <
                                                          > davidandjodi@...> wrote:**
                                                          >
                                                          > **
                                                          >
                                                          > I mentioned a few days ago the loss of our Prius key and the price of
                                                          > replacement. Some folks pooh-poohed the 600$ price I mentioned.
                                                          >
                                                          > The attached clipping is from page 55 of the latest (July) issue of
                                                          > Consumer Reports
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > David Thomas
                                                          > (31.06710N)
                                                          > (97.38357W)
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > **
                                                          > ****
                                                          >
                                                          >


                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • David Kelly
                                                          ... The lesson here is that if you are vacationing at the beach dealers know they have a sucker on the line. When traveling with others I always give a spare
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jun 1, 2013
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            On May 31, 2013, at 10:14 PM, JODI & DAVID THOMAS <davidandjodi@...> wrote:

                                                            > Here's the text scanned from July Consumer Reports p. 55:
                                                            > [A Consumer ] reports electronics engineer found that out the hard way. While at the beach, he forgot that the key to his Toyota Prius was in his pocket, went for a dip in the surf, and never saw the key again. The cost of a replacement: $600.

                                                            The lesson here is that if you are vacationing at the beach dealers know they have a sucker on the line.

                                                            When traveling with others I always give a spare key to someone I am traveling with. Doesn't matter if expensive smart key or conventional mechanical key.

                                                            --
                                                            David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                                                            ============================================================
                                                            Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
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